Old MCU Fantastic Four Discussion Thread

[Stark Bauer]

DC's biggest sweetheart is never going to be a face of a Marvel franchise.

never say never. The way Hollywood is going and how desperate people are becoming I wouldn’t count anything out

 

[JeanGreyFan318]

Isn’t Kang purple and green? We have had enough failures with this franchise I Hope the MCU don’t go woke and screw this casting up. They MUST top all previous F4 films by having not only a comic book accurate appearance but get the best actors regardless of race. Is that too much to ask for? You want a diverse team make your own up.

Edit: do a comics accurate Fantastic four first like they just did with Spidey then after that is gone and retired hell go and do all the different races F4 you want. Just get it right first and experiment with the multiverses after. I’m a POC but I prefer my comic book and video game adaptations to be accurate to the source material. So if they make TChalla white or Asian I would be equally up in arms about it

POC here too and I totally agree. I’d rather get my diversity from pre-established diverse characters in the canon.

Nonetheless, just based on 99% of the casting in the MCU so far, Feige’s pretty much been a purist when it comes to lead roles so I’m not expecting Reed to be race-bent. I mean maybe there’s a chance who knows...but I doubt it. RDJ as Tony Stark, Chris Evans as Steve Rogers, Chadwick Boseman as T’Challa, Tom Holland as Peter Parker, Brie Larson as Carol Danvers, etc. Even recent annoucements like Maslany playing She-Hulk. Visually, they’ve all been comicbook accurate.

Only race (or gender-bends) have been with supporting characters like Valkyrie, Heimdall, the Ancient One, Flash Thompson, Nick Fury (easily the best bend of all) Mar-Vell, stuff like that. I’m kind of anticipating the same for the FF. Brown and black folks to obviously be in the movie but a spot-on version of what most fans are visually familiar with.

 

[Crimz]

Marvel seems to be wanting to diversify their heroes more, just look at the Eternals cast, and I can see them wanting to do the same with the FF. This is an adaptation and there definitely will be changes from the source material, just having them in the MCU alone assures that as they won't be the first heroes who kicked everything off.

I'd have no problem with them wanting to change the race of Reed or the Storm siblings. Their characterization has nothing to do with their race and that's where the previous films failed, characterization. That's what the MCU version really needs to get right and race is not a part of that for those three.

 

[JeanGreyFan318]

Marvel seems to be wanting to diversify their heroes more, just look at the Eternals cast, and I can see them wanting to do the same with the FF. This is an adaptation and there definitely will be changes from the source material, just having them in the MCU alone assures that as they won't be the first heroes who kicked everything off.

I'd have no problem with them wanting to change the race of Reed or the Storm siblings. Their characterization has nothing to do with their race and that's where the previous films failed, characterization. That's what the MCU version really needs to get right and race is not a part of that for those three.

I guess. I’m watching regardless. I just don’t see it happening. Eternals is D-list so they can play with the casting since they aren’t known among many. The FF are iconic.

 

[Crimz]

I guess. I’m watching regardless. I just don’t see it happening. Eternals is D-list so they can play with the casting since they aren’t known among many. The FF are iconic.

After years of terrible films and being diminished in comics, the FF aren't very iconic. The fanbase isn't that big and there's an opportunity here for Marvel to takes risks. I just hope they do it instead of going too safe with the property.

 

[Captain Tired]

I think iconic means something different to what you're talking about..

 

[Crimz]

I think iconic means something different to what you're talking about..

Being iconic and being popular are linked when it comes to pop culture.

 

[JeanGreyFan318]

Being iconic and being popular are linked when it comes to pop culture.

No not necessarily. Superman is the most iconic superhero of all time. He hasn’t been the most popular in decades.

 

[Captain Tired]

Yeah, the point is that literally everyone know who the FF are. Ergo, they are iconic.

So the aspect of being popular rn is moot. Micky Mouse is very rarely featured in major roles in big movies or TV shows. Yet few would argue that he is iconic.

 

[Crimz]

No not necessarily. Superman is the most iconic superhero of all time. He hasn’t been the most popular in decades.

Superman is more popular than you think and is practically ingrained in pop culture. Almost everyone knows who he is and what he's about. The same can't be said for the FF at all. Most people couldn't name the characters while everyone knows Superman's secret identity and weakeness.

Yeah, the point is that literally everyone know who the FF are. Ergo, they are iconic.

So the aspect of being popular rn is moot. Micky Mouse is very rarely featured in major roles in big movies or TV shows. Yet few would argue that he is iconic.

I think you're overestimating how many people know who the FF are. They aren't very iconic outside of the small comic bubble.
Mickey Mouse is huge in terms of popularity so not a good example.

 

[Crimz]

Mickey Mouse - Is the most recognizable mascot on the planet

Superman - Has tons of merch and everyone plus their grandma knows who he is and what he's about

Wonder Woman - The same as Superman but to a lesser extent. Even before her first ever film she had tons of merch and many knew what she was about.

The FF aren't in that league and aren't well-known outside of comics. That's why this MCU film is so important, it's their last chance to be important to the general audience.
The GA don't care about their race because they don't know the characters enough, it's the least important thing about the team. If Marvel decides to change Reed, or Sue and Johnny it's not a big deal.

 

[JeanGreyFan318]

Superman is more popular than you think and is practically ingrained in pop culture. Almost everyone knows who he is and what he's about. The same can't be said for the FF at all. Most people couldn't name the characters while everyone knows Superman's secret identity and weakeness.

I think you're overestimating how many people know who the FF are. They aren't very iconic outside of the small comic bubble.
Mickey Mouse is huge in terms of popularity so not a good example.

The point I was making was the FF are a known Marvel property in comparison to the Eternals; one of the “Big Three” Marvel IPs (which, interestingly enough is why their film rights were sold off in the first place) along with Spider-Man and the X-Men before the MCU Boom post-2007 (Not that long ago.) They are iconic regardless of waning popularity over the decades due to lackluster adaptations outside of the comics.

That’s why I brought up Superman. To highlight the difference between being iconic and being popular. I’m just giving the most infamous example. They don’t have to be as known as Superman, they are still known.

 

[Crimz]

The point I was making was the FF are a known Marvel property in comparison to the Eternals; one of the “Big Three” Marvel IPs (which, interestingly enough is why their film rights were sold off in the first place) along with Spider-Man and the X-Men before the MCU Boom post-2007 (Not that long ago.) They are iconic regardless of waning popularity over the decades due to lackluster adaptations outside of the comics.

That’s why I brought up Superman. To highlight the difference between being iconic and being popular. I’m just giving the most infamous example. They don’t have to be as known as Superman, they are still known.

But how "known" they are is important. The more well-known and popular the character is, the more likely there will be backlash to any and all changes from perceived traits.

Anyway all of this is moot as Marvel is going to make their decision based on what their own criteria that we don't know. We'll find out soon enough.

As long as it's not Krasinski and Blunt then I'm good.

 

[Captain Tired]

Show a picture of the Fantastic Four to practically anyone, they'll know who they are and what they're called. That's iconography. Anything else you're taking into account is just overthinking things, Crimz.

On the plus side, isn't it nice that for once the topic isn't about which FF member should be black?

 

[Crimz]

Show a picture of the Fantastic Four to practically anyone, they'll know who they are and what they're called. That's iconography. Anything else you're taking into account is just overthinking things, Crimz.

On the plus side, isn't it nice that for once the topic isn't about which FF member should be black?

That's easy to say but hard to prove.

Reed, Sue and Johnny are the ones who should be POC if any.

 

[JeanGreyFan318]

But how "known" they are is important. The more well-known and popular the character is, the more likely there will be backlash to any and all changes from perceived traits.

Anyway all of this is moot as Marvel is going to make their decision based on what their own criteria that we don't know. We'll find out soon enough.

As long as it's not Krasinski and Blunt then I'm good.

What if it is them? Would you not watch?

Fan-casting actually worked with Rosario Dawson within Star Wars/Disney so....

 

[Crimz]

What if it is them? Would you not watch?

Fan-casting actually worked with Rosario Dawson within Star Wars/Disney so....

This fancast is boring and based on hair colour 9 times out of 10. Krasinski/Blunt aren't the best for the roles as there are countless other actors who can do it. Plus having a married couple in the role can lead to problems if the relationship goes bad. It's called acting for a reason and those involved don't have to be married in real life.

The fan-casting wouldn't be popular if they didn't have the same hair colour as the characters and if they weren't married in real life. It's just a really shallow fancast.

Also I find Krasinski to be a really mediocre actor. Blunt is fine, that casting would bore me but I'll live. Krasinski on the other hand I don't get it beyond him superficially being a brown haired white guy.

 

[JeanGreyFan318]

This fancast is boring and based on hair colour 9 times out of 10. Krasinski/Blunt aren't the best for the roles as there are countless other actors who can do it. Plus having a married couple in the role can lead to problems if the relationship goes bad. It's called acting for a reason and those involved don't have to be married in real life.

The fan-casting wouldn't be popular if they didn't have the same hair colour as the characters and if they weren't married in real life. It's just a really shallow fancast.

Ok but what if they can embody the roles? I thought it was just about characterization to you regardless of the visual. Under your own logic, if it’s just about characterization, hair color and marital status also becomes irrelevant right? If you can advocate for them being black, why can’t people support Krasinski & Blunt? Maybe their reasoning isn’t shallow and primarily based on acting prowess. They were pretty powerful together in A Quiet Place. There’s obvious chemistry on-screen.

 

[Crimz]

Ok but what if they can embody the roles? I thought it was just about characterization to you regardless of the visual. Under your own logic, if it’s just about characterization, hair color and marital status also becomes irrelevant right? If you can advocate for them being black, why can’t people support Krasinski & Blunt? Maybe their reasoning isn’t shallow and primarily based on acting prowess. They were pretty powerful together in A Quiet Place. There’s obvious chemistry on-screen.

It is about characterization and nothing I said contradicts that. I said that my problem with Krasinski is that I find his acting to be mediocre which means I don't think he has the capability to embody Reed.
Some fancasting of them isn't shallow but the majority of them are. I've seen too many say "they're married in real life so they're perfect". Plus lets be real, their hair color is 90% the reason why the fancast is popular. If Krasinksi were blonde and Blunt Brunette then this would be nowhere near as popular.

My issue with them being married is that we have no idea how stable that relationship is. Marvel will likely want the franchise to last years and if they separate within that time then things can get messy.

A Quiet Place was fine, but with most of their scenes being silent it's hard to judge whether they can do Reed and Sue who have a different dynamic. You can find actors who have chemistry and aren't married, that's what acting is. What's more important is whether the actors can believably play the characters. Blunt playing Sue? I can see it, it bores me but I can see it. Krasinski playing Reed on the other hand not so much...

I'm not saying Marvel should completely ignore them and refuse to acknowledge the fancast. Just that there are tons of actors who are just as good or better and that they should be given just as much of a chance.
Popular fancast =/= Good. A lot of people are fancasting wrestlers for Ben and middle aged men for Johnny...

 

[Crimz]

To switch things up a bit.

What changes from the source material does everyone want to see?

I personally want Sue to be an MD or something along those lines.

 

[Marvel united]

Isn’t Kang purple and green? We have had enough failures with this franchise I Hope the MCU don’t go woke and screw this casting up. They MUST top all previous F4 films by having not only a comic book accurate appearance but get the best actors regardless of race. Is that too much to ask for? You want a diverse team make your own up.

Edit: do a comics accurate Fantastic four first like they just did with Spidey then after that is gone and retired hell go and do all the different races F4 you want. Just get it right first and experiment with the multiverses after. I’m a POC but I prefer my comic book and video game adaptations to be accurate to the source material. So if they make TChalla white or Asian I would be equally up in arms about it

Just FYI, if Disney was beholden to iconography, then they wouldn't have race changed iconic characters like Ariel, Peter Pan, and soon, Hercules. They don't care as much as you think they do.

The iconography argument doesn't hold up when all it translates to is white normativity, since almost every icon is white. You can't simply ignore the (racist) context for why this, if we're going to have an honest conversation about race/representation in adaptations of decades old material.

Also, just becuz you're a POC and you're against it, does not somehow move the needle of consensus for how the vast majority feel (I'm Black but would never mention it unless it was relevent). The vast majority of young Black girls are going to be over-the-moon that Ariel now looks like them. And it's not cheap, it's not a "hand-me-down", as I've some people say.

It's corrective promotion of icons; diversifying their catalogue and evolving these characters. Shedding the racist limitations that were placed on them for who and what they could be, when they were made.

 

[Detective Conan]

I’ll avoid participating in the race-bending debate because frankly it’s gotten really tired at this point. All I’ll say is a good and comic accurate FF film can be made despite some of the races of the characters being swapped. One can be ‘comic accurate’ in ways other than simply casting the characters as the same race from the comics. Comic accurate costumes, visual style, characterization are also a thing besides race-accurate casting.

That being said, if they go with an all white FF then there will be no complaint from me. If they go with a white Reed then how about a more inspired choice than John Krasinski, no? There’s plenty of white male actors who are not only far better actors, but also a better fit than him, imo.

 

[Detective Conan]

Also I find Krasinski to be a really mediocre actor. Blunt is fine, that casting would bore me but I'll live. Krasinski on the other hand I don't get it beyond him superficially being a brown haired white guy.

I agree with you there, but Jon Watts is a really mediocre director and Marvel still went with him. So it’s only fitting they find a really mediocre actor for Reed.

Though I generally don’t care for Krasinski as an actor, it’s my understanding he’s quite good in that Jack Ryan show. Either way, he isn’t my top choice.

 

[JeanGreyFan318]

Just FYI, if Disney was beholden to iconography, then they wouldn't have race changed iconic characters like Ariel, Peter Pan, and soon, Hercules. They don't care as much as you think they do.

The iconography argument doesn't hold up when all it translates to is white normativity, since almost every icon is white. You can't simply ignore the (racist) context for why this, if we're going to have an honest conversation about race/representation in adaptations of decades old material.

Also, just becuz you're a POC and you're against it, does not somehow move the needle of consensus for how the vast majority feel (I'm Black but would never mention it unless it was relevent). The vast majority of young Black girls are going to be over-the-moon that Ariel now looks like them. And it's not cheap, it's not a "hand-me-down", as I've some people say.

It's corrective promotion of icons; diversifying their catalogue and evolving these characters. Shedding the racist limitations that were placed on them for who and what they could be, when they were made.

Almost every icon wouldn’t be white if more people would support creatives creating new characters of color that are original and built up from the ground. Is there something inherently wrong with a black Reed, Sue or whatever? No. And as I stated, I’m seeing the film regardless. But there is something to be said about always wanting POC versions of traditionally white characters. I grew up loving Brandy’s Cinderella in the 90s. It’s a great version. But it’s 2021 and she’s still seen as “Black Cinderella” by the masses and every actress that has portrayed the character since has been white. And the same thing will happen with the upcoming Mermaid iteration. Such progress. Historically accurate or new POC representation should be first and foremost championed and preferred over race-bending. Period. Next topic. When do you think this is released? 2023 or 2024?

 

[Mandon Knight]

JK is being thought of for casting simply because he and EB come as a pair, in an existing relationship, if they were not married, I guarantee JK would not be anywhere near the discussion for Reed casting.