Apocalypse Oscar Isaac IS Apocalypse - Part 1

[iacobusleo]

By 90's I was referring to the Fox animated version. I hated Evolution so despite the fact that you accept the lineup do to the fact that you have no choice anyway... Would you have preferred 3 new mutants to go along with Arch Angle or not?

So you not liking Evolution means Singer and co are not allowed to take anything from it?

And the Horsemen in the 90s series are totally unknown mutants such as Autumn Rolfson (Famine), Plague (Pestilence), Abraham Kieros (War), (except for Archangel) in one incarnation, and a lineup of unnamed mutants in the other. I think that would be a pretty poor choice to adapt these Horsemen directly to film since not many people would know would they are.

 

[starscream22]

Magneto tried to wipe humans out in X2 only, so this suggestion he did it in all 3 is nonsense I am afraid Starscream.

That's that "machine" he forced Rogue to control in part 1 killed Senator Kelly and would've killed many others it touched (The world summit in NY) if not for the X-men and it was Magneto how coerced Jean aka "The Phoenix" into go going on a warpath in X-3 hence the "What have I done" comment at the end by him. Thus potentially wiping out humanity 3 movies straight.

You're welcome.

 

[iacobusleo]

That's that "machine" in part 1 killed Senator Kelly and wouldn't killed many others if not for the X-men and it was Magneto how coerced Jean aka "The Phoenix" into go going on a warpath in X-3 hence the "What have I done" comment at the end by him. Thus potentially wiping out humanity 3 movies straight.

You're welcome.

His plan in X-Men 1 was to mutate world leaders so they would be more understanding of the mutants' plight. It was just an unfortunate side effect that people tend to die from forced mutation. So the only ones who would have died would be those on Ellis Island.

His plan in X-Men 3 was to use Phoenix against the cure facility, and presumably only as a contingency considering he sent all the lesser mutants to the frontlines first. Phoenix going berserk and attempting to destroy the world was not intended (although I don't see how he did not see that coming, ahhh X3's writing).

It's sort of true he came close to wiping out humanity a few times, but it was only in X2 he actually intended it.

 

[starscream22]

So you not liking Evolution means Singer and co are not allowed to take anything from it?

And the Horsemen in the 90s series are totally unknown mutants such as Autumn Rolfson (Famine), Plague (Pestilence), Abraham Kieros (War), (except for Archangel) in one incarnation, and a lineup of unnamed mutants in the other. I think that would be a pretty poor choice to adapt these Horsemen directly to film since not many people would know would they are.

What have they taken from it that we haven't already scene before? It's ultimately X-men vs Magneto all over again with a predictable "Magneto will break free and help stop Apocalypse" ending. I'm simply proposing something DIFFERENT for a change.

Magneto opposing Apocalypse from the beginning would make for a more interesting story.

Your reasons for Fox not using Autumn Rolfson, Plague and Abraham Kieros is a cop out. By that logic XM: First Class would've been an even bigger mess.

 

[iacobusleo]

What have they taken from it that we haven't already scene before? It's ultimately X-men vs Magneto all over again with a predictable "Magneto will break free and help stop Apocalypse" ending. I'm simply proposing something DIFFERENT for a change.

Magneto opposing Apocalypse from the beginning would make for a more interesting story.

Your reasons for Fox not using Autumn Rolfson, Plague and Abraham Kieros is a cop out. By that logic XM: First Class would've been an even bigger mess.

Oh trust me I'm not particularly happy with the Hellfire Club members used in FC.

But the difference is this is the hyped up closing to a trilogy, with a villain deemed as the baddest of all X-Men big bads. You kinda need to make sure his followers are heavyweights and familiar to the audience to drive that home.

But wouldn't Magneto and X-Men vs Apocalypse be similar to Magneto and X-Men vs. Stryker? And there is a difference in this story compared to all the others. For the first time, Magneto has to be a follower, but one with free will intact. Would he blindly follow Apocalypse due to the bitter disillusionment caused by the loss of his family or would there be a power struggle. I think it justifies X-Men vs Magneto all over again. True he may break free and stop Apocalypse, but we'll never know considering there are three other followers with the potential to betray Apocalypse. Maybe he sides with him till the bitter end? Who knows?

 

[starscream22]

His plan in X-Men 1 was to mutate world leaders so they would be more understanding of the mutants' plight. It was just an unfortunate side effect that people tend to die from forced mutation. So the only ones who would have died would be those on Ellis Island.

His plan in X-Men 3 was to use Phoenix against the cure facility, and presumably only as a contingency considering he sent all the lesser mutants to the frontlines first. Phoenix going berserk and attempting to destroy the world was not intended (although I don't see how he did not see that coming, ahhh X3's writing).

It's sort of true he came close to wiping out humanity a few times, but it was only in X2 he actually intended it.

Whether someone intended to be careful with an unregistered loaded gun that killed someone is irrelevant.

The X-men warned him about Senator Kelly in X1 and he clearly didn't know the extent of what that machine would do. Even if it was just intended for Ellis Island (Rogue would've kept going until she died so who really knows) killing off most of the Worlds leaders in one swoop would put the entire world into chaos.

And he was reacting on impulse after loosing his powers in part 3 so we can continue to go tit for tat on if Magneto has done in pts 1 and 3 but it's pointless since you agree with part 2 which still proved my initial point to begin with. Which is that this "ApocINO" wont being doing anything that Magneto or Mutant Kevin Bacon hasn't done already whether intentional or by mistake.

 

[iacobusleo]

Which is that this "ApocINO" wont being doing anything that Magneto or Mutant Kevin Bacon hasn't done already whether intentional or by mistake.

But isn't Apocalypse's whole goal is to rebuild civilization to one that would worship him? We have yet to have a villain who has been a religious figure with a massive god complex.

I agree though there is overlap between Shaw's, Magneto's and Apocalypse's goals. Personally with the X-Men films, it's not so much the villains' end goal but the journey there that keeps it interesting. So far all three of these villains have been in movies with 3 distinct tones so it has not been stale yet.

 

[starscream22]

Oh trust me I'm not particularly happy with the Hellfire Club members used in FC.

But the difference is this is the hyped up closing to a trilogy, with a villain deemed as the baddest of all X-Men big bads. You kinda need to make sure his followers are heavyweights and familiar to the audience to drive that home.

How is Psi-lock a familiar "big bad"?

You're doing a whole lot of back peddling to defend Kinberg's questionable story telling.

But I get it. In Fox's mind it's cheaper and less time consuming this way.

 

[iacobusleo]

How is Psi-lock a familiar "big bad"?

You're doing a whole lot of back peddling to defend Kinberg's questionable story telling.

But I get it. In Fox's mind it's cheaper and less time consuming this way.

She's familiar to most comic book fans and some people who watched the animated shows. Especially compared to the Horsemen of the 90s animated series.

I literally cannot understand how I'm back peddling nor I have any idea what you are referring to when you say it's cheaper for Fox so I'm just gonna end here. XD

 

[starscream22]

But isn't Apocalypse's whole goal is to rebuild civilization to one that would worship him? We have yet to have a villain who has been a religious figure with a massive god complex.

I agree though there is overlap between Shaw's, Magneto's and Apocalypse's goals. Personally with the X-Men films, it's not so much the villains' end goal but the journey there that keeps it interesting. So far all three of these villains have been in movies with 3 distinct tones so it has not been stale yet.

You sure about that?

Despite how great some people profess DOFP to be it's US numbers were less than X3's. And since competition is steep next Summer I have my doubts this will repeat their last X-men box office numbers.

 

[iacobusleo]

You sure about that?

Despite how great some people profess DOFP to be it's US numbers were less than X3's. And since competition is steep next Summer I have my doubts this will repeat their last X-men box office numbers.

Being from overseas, I don't think US numbers are the be all end all of box office performance. X-Men has a very strong global audience, and Fox is definitely more interested in capturing that market. Why else would they cast Fan Bingbing as Blink? And have two Asian characters in Apocalypse? And it's not just limited to the X-Men movies. All blockbusters are catering to the international market.

 

[starscream22]

She's familiar to most comic book fans and some people who watched the animated shows. Especially compared to the Horsemen of the 90s animated series.

I literally cannot understand how I'm back peddling nor I have any idea what you are referring to when you say it's cheaper for Fox so I'm just gonna end here. XD

You'll admit that I'm correct with one hand only to make up some far fetched excuse to defend them in the next. Thus "backpeddling".

She's familiar to most comic book fans and some people who watched the animated shows.

Which could be said about the other 3 original Horsemen.

Enjoy the rest of you day.

 

[fobi]

You sure about that?

Despite how great some people profess DOFP to be it's US numbers were less than X3's. And since competition is steep next Summer I have my doubts this will repeat their last X-men box office numbers.

By like a little over 1 million. Is that really significant? lol

 

[marvelrobbins]

Box office doesn't reflect quality

 

[iacobusleo]

You'll admit that I'm correct with one hand only to make up some far fetched excuse to defend them in the next. Thus "backpeddling".



Which could be said about the other 3 original Horsemen.

Enjoy the rest of you day.

Agreeing with you on some things and not agreeing with you on others does not mean I'm backpeddling.

Psylocke was a major character in the main Uncanny X-Men line and is a major character in a number of spin off titles. That cannot possibly compare with those 3 Horsemen who made guest appearances in a TV show with not much lines.

Lol I hope you enjoy yours too.

 

[starscream22]

Being from overseas, I don't think US numbers are the be all end all of box office performance. X-Men has a very strong global audience, and Fox is definitely more interested in capturing that market. Why else would they case Fan Bingbing as Blink? And have two Asian characters in Apocalypse? And it's not just limited to the X-Men movies. All blockbusters are catering to the international market.

The new markets overseas do help a lot but Hollywood still get larger part of the pie from the US box office than they do with foreign. So they can't just turn their back on the US box office even if they wanted to.

That $245M Paramount got from the last Bayformers movie had Paramount a little worried despite making $1.1B WW because that US number is dropping. So ironically now they're back to the drawing board trying to come up with ways to make a "Transformers Cinematic Universe".

 

[starscream22]

By like a little over 1 million. Is that really significant? lol

If you count ticket inflation, 3D and IMAX YES!

Box office doesn't reflect quality

Ideally yes. But if it isn't getting stale as iacobusleo put it then the number$ should support that.

We're talking mega block busters here with the potential to do billions. Not movies like "Whiplash" or "12 years a slave" so the BO numbers do count if you expect Studio's to continue to make them.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

That's that "machine" he forced Rogue to control in part 1 killed Senator Kelly and would've killed many others it touched (The world summit in NY) if not for the X-men and it was Magneto how coerced Jean aka "The Phoenix" into go going on a warpath in X-3 hence the "What have I done" comment at the end by him. Thus potentially wiping out humanity 3 movies straight.

You're welcome.

How is killing a few hundred people wiping out humanity? Magneto's goal in X1 was to mutate the world leaders so they would have to be better towards other mutants. He didn't intend to kill anyone but Rogue and others who tried to stop him. That's not wiping out humanity no matter how you try and spin it.

And again, in X3 he wanted to kill the creators of the cure and anyone who stood in his way there. Again not wiping out humanity. He even expressed regret at unleashing Jean because she would kill people he didn't intend to.

I know you have this thing against Fox CBMs and that's fair enough, but don't make things up to try and bash them as that just makes you look bad and no one else.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

If you count ticket inflation, 3D and IMAX YES!

Ideally yes. But if it isn't getting stale as iacobusleo put then the numbers should support that.

We're talking mega block busters here. Not movies like "Whiplash" or "12 years a slave" so the BO numbers do count if you expect Studio's to continue to make them.

And DOFP is getting a sequel, as did First Class before it, so your point doesn't stand at all.

By your logic Ant Man shouldn't get a sequel because it made less than the MCU movies before it.

 

[Frankeh]

As for the ApocINO conclusion, in no way does that thing in the trailer remind me of the character in those panels you've shared. William Dafoe's Green Goblin got a pass for the crappy Power Ranger suit because of his overall performance. No one denies his portrayal of Normand Osborne.

Ooze-pocalypse on the other hand is in no ways En Sabah Nur-ish. Even if you're not familiar with the 90's cartoon version. There was that "Rise of Apocalypse" RPG not too long ago that shows him as an imposing bruiser. And making Magneto a Horseman is just WRONG!

It's should've been the Brotherhood and the X-men against Apocalypse and his Horsemen give or take a couple other minions on his side to make it balanced.

Instead we're just getting the same characters we've been getting for the last 15 years and then they question why people grow weary.

Oh, so you just don't care for his voice and look. That does not make him INO, as I've pointed out many things that do line up. The filmmakers did NOT make up a character and decided to name him after a popular comic-book villain as I've already proven.

As for the change of Horsemen, that is a purist complaint I feel only done to point out more reasons why you need to dislike this film. I can bet no matter what studio had made this film they would've changed up the original horsemen. Who would've preferred to see Autumn Rolfson over Psylocke? A minority probably.

And your suggestion isn't that great. Magneto and Brotherhood + Charles and X-Men against Apocalypse would be X2 all over again. Not to mention DOFP as well. Would you have had Magneto turning on the X-Men at the end to kill Apocalypse like in X2 and DOFP too?

 

[starscream22]

And DOFP is getting a sequel, as did First Class before it, so your point doesn't stand at all.

By your logic Ant Man shouldn't get a sequel because it made less than the MCU movies before it.

You should read those comments again since I don't think you know how's point was even in question.

Plus Ant-Man is up there with the first Iron-man movie as far as solo characters go in movies that aren't a sequel, so nice try.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

You should read those comments again since I don't think you know how's point was even in question.

Plus Ant-Man is up there with the first Iron-man movie as far as solo characters go in movies that aren't a sequel, so nice try.

But you said sequels need to keep making more and more in order to be considered successful? Ant Man made less than the movies that came before it. It also has a lower critic RT rating than FC and DOFP and is getting a sequel. It's not always about making more than the previous movie. First Class made less than Wolverine Origins and still got a sequel, for one example.

Ant Man is a movie I am a huge fan of as well BTW.

 

[starscream22]

Oh, so you just don't care for his voice and look. That does not make him INO, as I've pointed out many things that do line up. The filmmakers did NOT make up a character and decided to name him after a popular comic-book villain as I've already proven.

As for the change of Horsemen, that is a purist complaint I feel only done to point out more reasons why you need to dislike this film. I can bet no matter what studio had made this film they would've changed up the original horsemen. Who would've preferred to see Autumn Rolfson over Psylocke? A minority probably.

And your suggestion isn't that great. Magneto and Brotherhood + Charles and X-Men against Apocalypse would be X2 all over again. Not to mention DOFP as well. Would you have had Magneto turning on the X-Men at the end to kill Apocalypse like in X2 and DOFP too?

The conversation with "iacobusleo" was going fine. You my friend are way too hostile.

 

[starscream22]

But you said sequels need to keep making more and more in order to be considered successful? Ant Man made less than the movies that came before it. It also has a lower critic RT rating than FC and DOFP and is getting a sequel. It's not always about making more than the previous movie. First Class made less than Wolverine Origins and still got a sequel, for one example.

Ant Man is a movie I am a huge fan of as well BTW.

(Sigh.....) Ant-man isn't a sequel nor did it have anything to do with that prior discussion. But if you're trying to find fault in my words by comparing a Fox Marvel franchise with 15 years tenure, going on 6 films and 3 spin offs (Deadpool included) to "Ant-man Year One" I hope you enjoy yourself.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

(Sigh.....) Ant-man isn't a sequel nor did it have anything to do with that prior discussion. But if you're trying to find fault in my words by comparing a Fox Marvel franchise with 15 years tenure, going on 6 films and 3 spin offs (Deadpool included) to "Ant-man Year One" I hope you enjoy yourself.

Essentially Ant Man was a sequel of sorts, as is the whole MCU, hence why Peggy, Howard Stark and Falcon appeared. But either way your point was off, it's not always about making more than the previous movie and many franchises have showed that.