First Avenger "Over There"....The USO plot point thread

[Artistsean]

I have read the interview. The key word is "read" which means that the interview is subject to interpretation because we do not have the audio/video to get the entire context of the interview. He could be answering these questions with a big grin on his face or deadpan serious....we don't know. I can take from the interview that he thinks that Cap's costume is a tad silly (AND IT IS!!) and that he wants to make the movie a bit more realistic (which I like) and I like where this movie is heading (story wise)

I WOULD BE MORE CONCERNED WITH THE DIRECTOR AND CAST than the scrip and pre-production at this point. This movie has a middle of the road actor as Cap. A genre actor (a fine one at that) as the villian and a couple of nobodies as the supporting cast so far. And the directors body of work leaves a bit to be desired. (although Favreau was a strange choice at the time)

Exactly,
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[Punisher_MAX]

i dont understand what the *****ing and moaning about the USO plot point is, it makes PERFECT sense...

 

[Webhead2006]

I think it is a good idea. I don't think they'll have him literally singing and dancing, but he'll be up on stage, paraded like a propoganda tool.

And that will hurt him, annoy him and embarrass him.

It will be a way to show the REAL Steve Rogers. He wants to be a soldier, he wants to fight for his country, not be a flag waving jingo.

It will also show people who don't know the real Captain America that he isn't a jingo flag waver.

This is how things could turn out to be. Plus we really dont know how long/how many scenes there will be of this USO deal. Plus what is changing from the first draft of the script/early drafts. To what joe will ultimately be shooting with come end of june. For all we know details joe said back during the wolfman press junket thing could easily be changed, dropped, or something else. Now yes we are going to see a USO thing more likely then not.

But what happens during these scenes is a toss up to we see set photos and more details coming once filming starts. Like i said myself sure this is an odd thing they can be doing for the character. But joe has his reasons and i am willing to wait and see how things do shape up and hope for the best out of this whole USO thing.

 

[afan]

i dont understand what the *****ing and moaning about the USO plot point is, it makes PERFECT sense...

It would make PERFECT sense.......IF........no one in authority is aware of Steve Rogers potential, post serum.
Now ask yourself.....does that make PERFECT sense?
Would the result of a high level, top secret, and most probably very expensive, government project go un-tested? To suggest so would not make perfect sense.
If Rogers is tested, wouldn't his ability to survive be obvious. He becomes(or should become) The Living legend of WWII. The film then testifies to his true value, and so would exhaustive testing.
Wouldn't his true value be anything other than as a USO performer!!?

 

[afan]

Where has Johnston said "the only reason we're doing the USO is because of the costume." If he's said this, then you're right, it's stupid, but to me, it seemed like it was more about Cap dealing with the frustration of not being able to fight and being used as advertisement.

Wait, what? Dragon you think the sole reason the USO show is in there is for the costume?

Errr... wha...? The motivation for that is CLEARLY to show that Cap is uncomfortable with all that crap.

Steve Rogers volenteered for the SS program so he could be a soldier and fit in. Then his government orders him to be some show poney? He'd be all kinds of pissed and embarrassed by that. THAT is the motivation for that scene. That is what that scene is for, to show the REAL Steve Rogers.

If anything, the costume is the by product.

"The costume is a flag, but the way we're getting around that is we have Steve Rogers forced into the USO circuit. After he's made into this super-soldier, they decide they can't send him into combat and risk him getting killed. He's the only one and they can't make more. So they say, 'You're going to be in this USO show' and they give him a flag suit. He can't wait to get out of it."

"It was never in the comics," Johnston said, "because they didn't really need it. In comics, he puts on the costume and the reader just justifies because of the nature of the medium."

"So he's up on stage doing songs and dances with chorus girls and he can't wait to get out and really fight. When he does go AWOL, he covers up the suit but then, after a few things happen, he realizes that this uniform allows him to lead. By then, he's become a star in the public mind and a symbol. The guys get behind him because he embodies something special"

"He realizes the value of the uniform symbols but he modifies his suit and adds some armor, it will be closer to the Cpa costume in some of the comics in more recent years . . . this approach, it's the only way we could justify ever seeing him on a screen in tights, with the funny boots and everything. The government essentially puts him up there as a living comic-book character and he rips it off and then reclaims some of its imagery after he recognizes the value of it. We think it's the best way to keep the costume and explain it at the same time."

Every thing here indicates, at the very least, the main reason for the USO plot point is the suit. Only a nine word phrase in the entire quote(I enhanced it with bold text) deals in any description with Roger's frustration.
Of course these are only the director's words, and as many have said he may not mean what he said

 

[StanLee Wannabe]

double post. sorry.

 

[StanLee Wannabe]

The song and dance stuff has me scared, but the justification via the USO makes sense.

I was hoping he'd have gotten the serum AFTER he was part of the USO. My idea was that some lower-than-nothing private gets pushed into wearing a marketing tool and being part of the USO. They do some sort of parade/concert near a hostile zone and a fight breaks out. He shows leadership potential, combat skill, and courage under fire. He's forced to fight IN the costume...and he clearly is the hero of the day.

Once the fight is over, he's inseparable from the costume/uniform. Maybe as a visual he rips off some of the more superfluous parts (say a cape or something else) during or after the battle...but people know him in the suit...movie reels are made of his heroism in the suit...and there's just no getting out of it. They give him the serum AFTER...and they dont expose that they can't replicate the process.

Keeping the suit from there on out is almost like a challenge! "Look jerks! We're pushing this guy out front and you can't kill him as hard as you try!" The fact that his costume/uniform is un-real is like a big "screw you"/"you aint got jack!" to the Axis powers.

 

[TikkiEXX]

It would make PERFECT sense.......IF........no one in authority is aware of Steve Rogers potential, post serum.
Now ask yourself.....does that make PERFECT sense?
Would the result of a high level, top secret, and most probably very expensive, government project go un-tested? To suggest so would not make perfect sense.
If Rogers is tested, wouldn't his ability to survive be obvious. He becomes(or should become) The Living legend of WWII. The film then testifies to his true value, and so would exhaustive testing.
Wouldn't his true value be anything other than as a USO performer!!?

like you said. we really dont know. and even if they did test him and train him(which i think they will in the movie) how does being stronger and faster and maybe even smarter make you bulletproof? or grenade proof, or mortar proof. anything can happen in a battlefield and no matter how physically awesome you are you can still and statistically speaking probably will catch a bullet. unless the give him regenerative powers like Blonsky. but it all boils down to we dont really know at the time. your guess is as good as mine and im not trying to undercut you or anything.

 

[roach]

how does being stronger and faster and maybe even smarter make you bulletproof? or grenade proof, or mortar proof. anything can happen in a battlefield and no matter how physically awesome you are you can still and statistically speaking probably will catch a bullet. unless the give him regenerative powers like Blonsky. but it all boils down to we dont really know at the time. your guess is as good as mine and im not trying to undercut you or anything.

So they keep him off the battlefield by doing top secret covert stuff....need him to steal plans for a V2 rocket from the Nazis or capture a Nazi spy in New York or get behind enemy lines and destroy a bridge....

 

[TikkiEXX]

So they keep him off the battlefield by doing top secret covert stuff....need him to steal plans for a V2 rocket from the Nazis or capture a Nazi spy in New York or get behind enemy lines and destroy a bridge....

well, yeah. i think they will do that stuff. but it looks like he,ll get some exposure on the battlefield when he goes AWOL. i think we,ll see a bit of both. Cap doing covert stuff and some battlefield stuff. i sense a montage coming our way. haha

 

[afan]

like you said. we really dont know. and even if they did test him and train him(which i think they will in the movie) how does being stronger and faster and maybe even smarter make you bulletproof? or grenade proof, or mortar proof. anything can happen in a battlefield and no matter how physically awesome you are you can still and statistically speaking probably will catch a bullet. unless the give him regenerative powers like Blonsky. but it all boils down to we dont really know at the time. your guess is as good as mine and im not trying to undercut you or anything.

The serum does include enhanced healing properties, not to a Wolverine extant of course.
The serum does much more than increase strength and speed, Roger's senses, stamina, immune system, and healing/recuperative capability, are also ramped up to 100% efficiency.

 

[TikkiEXX]

cool, thats good to know. but this is a movie so some things may differ. but they already showed it with Blonsky and id think hed be inferior to Cap.

 

[Rage]

Here is something that nobody brought up... maybe they are hiding him there because they don't know where else to put him. Think of it as "witness protection" The most SECRETIVE GOVERNMENT PROJECT was not only infiltrated by Nazis, but they almost destroyed the entire Super Soldier Project with on fell swoop. Maybe... MAYBE.. they don't know who else is compromised and need to HIDE Steve. Maybe only one or two people actually know where he is and what he's doing... until they can root out the Ratzi?? Maybe the entire time he's in the USO, he is training and learning (on his own even) Everyone seems to assume that he is in the USO and that is his assignment... but maybe he is just in hiding.

 

[TikkiEXX]

sounds good to me Rage.

 

[roach]

thats speculation..no where did they say he was going to be training during his time in the USO

 

[Rage]

This whole topic is speculation... I would think that JJ wouldn't just throw out pertinent plot points willy-nilly... that is why we speculate.

 

[afan]

Here is something that nobody brought up... maybe they are hiding him there because they don't know where else to put him.

I think Turtles has already broached the idea.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Every thing here indicates, at the very least, the main reason for the USO plot point is the suit. Only a nine word phrase in the entire quote(I enhanced it with bold text) deals in any description with Roger's frustration.
Of course these are only the director's words, and as many have said he may not mean what he said

Your quote merely affirms my point. I was responding to people who said the ONLY reason the USO plot point was created was to explain the suit. This is obviously not true, since it's going to add some internal conflict for Steve Rogers.

 

[roach]

Your quote merely affirms my point. I was responding to people who said the ONLY reason the USO plot point was created was to explain the suit. This is obviously not true, since it's going to add some internal conflict for Steve Rogers.

How can you blame people for believing it if thats what the director said

 

[afan]

Your quote merely affirms my point. I was responding to people who said the ONLY reason the USO plot point was created was to explain the suit. This is obviously not true, since it's going to add some internal conflict for Steve Rogers.

Sorry if I misread your point, but your post states that the USO device is more about Steve's frustation, however the preponderance of reference to the suit in Johnston's quote, and the small aside about frustration, indicates the inspiration for the USO device is more about the suits creation.

 

[roach]

the Main reason the USO is in the movie is to explain the costume

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

There's no problem with that, imo. It applies to the film, moves the story forward, and even though its cheesy, that the point. It pisses Cap off that he's not in battle. Its really about both. As I said a few days ago, it could force Cap to make a tough decision and go against the government by going AWOL and going to fight on the battlefield. I like the idea.

And it not like he could be directly going to USO. He could be training for battle and the scientist gets killed with the government reassigning him.

 

[roach]

There's no problem with that, imo. It applies to the film, moves the story forward, and even though its cheesy, that the point. It pisses Cap off that he's not in battle. Its really about both. As I said a few days ago, it could force Cap to make a tough decision and go against the government by going AWOL and going to fight on the battlefield. I like the idea.
And it not like he could be directly going to USO. He could be training for battle and the scientist gets killed with the government reassigning him.

you are adding to it

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Well, yeah I guess I am.

The USO scenes imo goes in place with the era and will not be too out of place. It will go on along with the rest of the film and I just don't believe it ruin it. Johnston is using the era to his advantage to the script and I see no problem with that. In fact I view it as a pretty creative and bold move if done right.

 

[roach]

I am not denying that the USO was important in this era. The issue man of us have is that it shows the governments shortsightedness. It makes the creation of Captain America the legend an accident instead of something that was created on purpose. The creation of Cap isnt tied in to the Red Skull