Prometheus - Part 7

[Caekzor]

About Vickers...

Spoiler

Wasn't she an android too? I remember it being said that there were two androids in this film and she's the only other that fits.

 

[Liam_H]

If she was why would she be asleep like everyone else was, among other reasons.

 

[Gianakin_]

About Vickers...

Spoiler

Wasn't she an android too? I remember it being said that there were two androids in this film and she's the only other that fits.

[BLACKOUT]
No, she's not. There's even a scene dedicated to disprove it.

Also, there was no 2nd android in the movie.
[/BLACKOUT]

 

[spider-neil]

I think it is the flip side. I believe Scott was the one who wanted the "Alien bits". Wasn't he trying to get another Alien film done for awhile now?

You think so? I saw a interview with Scott and he talks about is a return to Sci-Fi, he doesn't even mention Alien in his movie. I get the distinct impression he wanted to divorce himself from that movie but FOX set a condition for Alien inclusion before giving him a $150m budget.

For the the movie is a joy but the Alien bits actually anger me.

 

[Liam_H]

For the the movie is a joy but the Alien bits actually anger me.

You mean the last shot?

 

[spider-neil]

Lots of potential, but awful dialogue and poorly put together.

Ridley's worst decision = using Lindelof's script.

I loved LOST, but this felt like an extended episode with a gang jumping into the Alien universe.

Spoiler

Not to mention how STUPID it was to have Vickers be Peter's daughter. Totally unnecessary. Why couldn't they leave it at Peter saying David was "The child he never had" instead of son?

And I really don't feel like seeing a sequel. This was botched, and I don't wanna see "Elizabeth and David's Head Go to Paradise!" in 20 years.

There are two types of people, the ones that loved the LOST finale and the ones that hated the finale. I think it comes down to whether you watch tv/movies for characters and themes or whether you NEED answers. I'm the former and I absolutely loved the finale of LOST and loved most of Prometheus. I don't need answers I just need interesting questions.

 

[Gianakin_]

I went in prepared to be irritated by shoe-horned Alien references, but I found them integral to the story. Even the last scene, though it was kinda shot like a mid-credit sequence.

 

[spider-neil]

You mean the last shot?

Yes. The movie doesn't need it.
Scott should have made a movie set in the same universe but with completely different characters and themes.
To use a crude analogy the movie should have been set in the MARVEL universe and if Alien was Spider-Man and Aliens is Spider-Man 2 then Prometheus needed to be Blade (for example) not Spider-Man 2.5 (with a Blade cameo).

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You think so? I saw a interview with Scott and he talks about is a return to Sci-Fi, he doesn't even mention Alien in his movie. I get the distinct impression he wanted to divorce himself from that movie but FOX set a condition for Alien inclusion before giving him a $150m budget.

For the the movie is a joy but the Alien bits actually anger me.

Don't quote me on this, but I if I remember correctly, the way things went was that Scott was trying to get an Alien film made for quite a bit of time, but couldn't get it done because he wanted to make a huge budget rated-R film about a franchise that had been kicked in the nuts for a decade. A some point there was finally a compromise and we got Prometheus.

And it looks like wiki has something on it. Wasn't exactly right, but I was pretty close.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus_(film)#Development

 

[DarthSkywalker]

There are two types of people, the ones that loved the LOST finale and the ones that hated the finale. I think it comes down to whether you watch tv/movies for characters and themes or whether you NEED answers. I'm the former and I absolutely loved the finale of LOST and loved most of Prometheus. I don't need answers I just need interesting questions.

I couldn't watch Lost past the second season, so never got to that finale. I guess I am in a third camp.

The thing about questions though is if all you do is tease the audience with them, at some point frustration kicks in. Especially when the few you do answer are rather lackluster.

 

[Mandalore464]

Spoiler

Not to mention how STUPID it was to have Vickers be Peter's daughter. Totally unnecessary. Why couldn't they leave it at Peter saying David was "The child he never had" instead of son?

Spoiler

Family relations and parenthood is probably the one big underlying theme in the film. The characters go out in a search for our "parents", and find they have issues with them although they don't understand why. You'll find that most of the main characters address at some point the notion of being somebody's son/daughter or parent.

Shaw has dreams in which we see her father. He is the one who told her to believe whatever she chooses to believe in, and apparently raised her with an open mind (especially towards other people's beliefs and the possibility that religion does not give us the true answers, but that it's not a problem to believe anyway).

Vickers was thrown in there because she embodies the issue of bad parenthood. Weyland has more love for his android (his creation, his "son") than his daughter, because he is so in love with himself (does he not program the mission because he wants to become immortal?) he cannot love a being that was born out of his love for another person (Vicker's mother). Instead, he is prouder of his "son" who was designed and built by him and his company, and shares more traits with him than anyone else could. If Vickers wasn't there as his daughter, he'd just be a grumpy old man who never had any child and finally decided to build one, and that would be touching. Instead, her being his daughter turns him into a self-centered SOB, and shows you the issues that arise when you make becoming a parent about yourself more than about the child.

The issues in parenthood between David and Weyland are obvious (kill the father blah blah blah). Shaw cannot become a mother, and then gives birth to a monstrous creature... Hell, even that sociopath Fifield refers to his little probe droids as his children, and establishes himself as the leader of a wolf pack, with the little drones being the wolves pups. And then of course there are the Engineers, our "fathers" (By the way do they have females? Scott is big on motherhood, the mother characters in his films are always strong, or trigger strong emotional reactions from his male characters ex. Leon in Blade Runner "I'll tell you about my mother"... Is Scott trying to depict the flaws that would be inherent to a society that's entirely controlled by "fathers", who can seed life and end it as they please whenever it becomes a threat to them, with no mothers to save them?)

The theme of parenthood is everywhere in this movie.

If you want to say that the Weyland / Vickers "twist" was poorly executed, or gives the impression it was thrown into the mix without being really thought-out to allow us to care about it, then I agree. But if you say that it is not necessary, I think you're wrong : it's another element that says something about the movie's main theme, and something important if you ask me.

 

[spider-neil]

Don't quote me on this, but I if I remember correctly, the way things went was that Scott was trying to get an Alien film made for quite a bit of time, but couldn't get it done because he wanted to make a huge budget rated-R film about a franchise that had been kicked in the nuts for a decade. A some point there was finally a compromise and we got Prometheus.

And it looks like wiki has something on it. Wasn't exactly right, but I was pretty close.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus_(film)#Development

Interesting...

I have to wonder why the 'Alien' bits are so bad (as if Scott were phoning it in) and the new and fresh bits were so good (like Scott had a passion for the new elements in the movie).

 

[spider-neil]

I couldn't watch Lost past the second season, so never got to that finale. I guess I am in a third camp.

The thing about questions though is if all you do is tease the audience with them, at some point frustration kicks in. Especially when the few you do answer are rather lackluster.

For me it's about the journey not the destination.

 

[Caekzor]

[BLACKOUT]
No, she's not. There's even a scene dedicated to disprove it.

Also, there was no 2nd android in the movie.
[/BLACKOUT]

OK found it. It was Ridley Scott who said at SDCC that

Spoiler

"there may be two androids".

Not sure why he said that...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

For me it's about the journey not the destination.

Answers are not the destination really though. They are simply the end of that certain journey. Journeys all have begins, middles and ends. Each part needs to work for me. Here, the beginning had a lot of potential.

 

[Liam_H]

Maybe he's trolling the audience.

 

[Viscal]

Peter Weyland - Thus Spoke Zarathustra (New short Prometheus VIRAL)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEL7m73EAPo

From the new viral site http://whatis101112.com/

 

[Caekzor]

Maybe he's trolling the audience.

Probably.

 

[spider-neil]

Answers are not the destination really though. They are simply the end of that certain journey. Journeys all have begins, middles and ends. Each part needs to work for me. Here, the beginning had a lot of potential.

I suppose I'm less concerned with that aspect of a movie. The things I want most out of a movie;

1. Great characters.
Non negotiable, if I don't care about the characters then I am completely checked out of the movie regardless of visuals.

2. Great story/themes.
Why is the character doing what he is going. This needs to be interesting enough to keep me in engaged.

beyond that, I'm easy.

 

[CConn]

I'm not. A movie has to be a complete and utter total package for me, with a detailed and depth-filled story with a lot of subtext and meaning, incredible visual storytelling and art design, memorable performances, an engaging score, etc.

And yet I was still quite wholly pleased with Prometheus.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Interesting...

I have to wonder why the 'Alien' bits are so bad (as if Scott were phoning it in) and the new and fresh bits were so good (like Scott had a passion for the new elements in the movie).

But the film is pretty much an Alien prequel. After seeing it I don't understand why this is even a question. It has nothing to do with that scene, but the film itself.

 

[spider-neil]

I'm not. A movie has to be a complete and utter total package for me, with a detailed and depth-filled story with a lot of subtext and meaning, incredible visual storytelling and art design, memorable performances, an engaging score, etc.

And yet I was still quite wholly pleased with Prometheus.

If you need all of that from a movie you can't be happy with most of the movies you've seen.

 

[spider-neil]

But the film is pretty much an Alien prequel. After seeing it I don't understand why this is even a question. It has nothing to do with that scene, but the film itself.

I know Alien is more ingrained throughout the movie than just the final scene but to me it is 'implied' throughout movie whereas the final scene out right calls it out.

 

[wonderwoman5757]

wow, i'm in shock this movie was brutally bad. there are some things to like about it, but the plot holes are endless. i'm stunned at how bad it is. i mean just the reactions that the characters have to different events in the film are so off.... really really way off. the whole main point of going to this place is now an enormous plot hole. i won't go into details, but damn. ouch city. i gave it a 3 out of 10.

 

[CConn]

If you need all of that from a movie you can't be happy with most of the movies you've seen.

Hah. You're kind of right.

I'm not enough of a pompous ass to be dissatisfied with a lot of supposedly "great films" - I have a pretty healthy enjoyment of most movies. Generally, I'm only disastisfied with movies that have pedestrian visual landscapes, or don't really deviate from the norms of filmmaking enough.

But I will admit, there are very few movies that I actually consider great pieces of art. M, The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly, Batman, Blade Runner, Kill Bill, etc. are some of the select few films that I really feel have the complete package.

I won't be as presumptuous to say that I think Prometheus is on that level - I've only just seen it afterall - but, like those movies above, I definitely felt satisfied on a total level with the film.