Prometheus - Part 7

[Sharkboy]

Yeah it really isn't Alien, it's pretty much a new ridley scott sci fi film/franchise.

 

[Sharkboy]

I'm not totally comfortable with the Blade Runner sequel. I think it's a bad idea. Apparently it's already being written, though, so it's pretty much a done deal. I personally would rather Ridley goes onto to his Brave New World film adaption that was supposed to happen but seems like it's a dead project at this point. Either way, Ridley should explore new places in Sci Fi rather than expanding things from the past, especially something as obscure and ambiguous as Blade Runner.

Unlike Lindelof doing Prometheus, Hamton Fancher is doing the script for the second, if they can bring David and Janet Peoples onto the script as well, it has a much better chance of being great. I think Ridley might be using Prometheus and a blade runner sequel to not only open new franchises for new directors/the studio but to perfectly bookend his career.

 

[BuddhaWasABat]

Just watched Prometheus, heres a quick spoiler free review for those who are interested.

Bad stuff out of the way; It's nowhere near as smart or deep as it thinks it is, there are some plot points that entertain some discussion, but instead of being the smart deep one, compared to the scary one or the action packed one...it's just the very pretty one. Outside of Rapace and Fassbender, the characters are severely underwritten, the film lacks any real focus most of the time, taking away any of the simple pacing and terrifying claustrophobia from the first Alien, comparing it to said film is useless because tonally it feels more about creation and discovery rather than horror and destruction, this would all be fine if the film didn't share pretty much it's entire first half with the first alien, and without the interesting characters and well paced claustrophobic moments, it just feels like a mess.

On to what does work...it's just one of the more visually appealing films of the year so far, I mean this film looks REALLY good, it makes gorgeous looking films like wrath of the titans, avengers and SWATH look pretty bland in comparison. Nearly every scene looks beautiful from the fantastic opening to the last shot, there are some real moments of greatness that presents themselves mostly in the second half, but what is lost in actual horror and scares come in pure terror and a fantastic sense of despair, Rapace is a pretty good female lead, and Fassbender steals the damn show, it also has some great shots for traditional Alien fans, and once it finally finds it's right place, it hits the spot that we all expected it to. (shame it takes way too long to get there)

Overall it's a great start to a new franchise similar in vein to rise of the planet of the apes, and first class, a breath of fresh air and solid shift in the right direction for the franchise. It just doesn't reach the legendary status that the first two have reached. 8/10

Pretty fair review. Some of the flaws you mentioned worry me slightly but we'll see. How is the engineer? Is he badass and is he ever frightening?

 

[Sharkboy]

Pretty fair review. Some of the flaws you mentioned worry me slightly but we'll see. How is the engineer? Is he badass and is he ever frightening?

I'll answer your question without any real spoilers but ill still put in tags for the benefit of others here.

Spoiler

The Engineer looked impressive visually, as a physical specimen on their own they look pretty badass and intimidating rather than outright terrifying, probably because you come to think of them more as a god rather than an evil destructive force like the Xenomorphs. That doesn't mean they don't have their evil moments though.

Oh and I do sound harsh on the film, but i really liked it, it's not a bad film, nor is it a mediocre film, it's a really good film, not exactly what i was expecting, i think once it's settled in my head, i would love to revisit it with the new context of what i know. If the writing was lacking, the direction was damn near flawless considered with what Ridley had to work with.

 

[BuddhaWasABat]

Sounds good. Sounds like it's good entertainment with interesting concepts but they aren't executed as well as we hoped. I'm gonna do my best to not ask you a million questions here, but I guess I definitely have a couple.

You're not the first person to mention the script having some obvious flaws. People have said other wise but I am a bit worried. It sounds like it entertains all the philosophical concepts well until a point and than it kind of falls a part. Did the movie ever feel pretentious to you because of that? If you could rate how well the script handles it's themes on a scale of 1 to 10 what would you say?

And I guess how would you rank it among other Ridley Scott films? If you feel like you need to see it again before you can do that that's understandable. Finally do you feel like it could be better on a second viewing or not?

 

[Sharkboy]

Sounds good. Sounds like it's good entertainment with interesting concepts but they aren't executed as well as we hoped. I'm gonna do my best to not ask you a million questions here, but I guess I definitely have a couple.

You're not the first person to mention the script having some obvious flaws. People have said other wise but I am a bit worried. It sounds like it entertains all the philosophical concepts well until a point and than it kind of falls a part. Did the movie ever feel pretentious to you because of that? If you could rate how well the script handles it's themes on a scale of 1 to 10 what would you say?

Spoiler

On the contrary, it never truly delves into those themes head on, so one of the benefits is it never falls into that realm of pretentiousness or uppity philosophical flick, the ideas of self preservation, discovery, origins are present in the characters mostly, with Fassbender being the films big fresh mind, being the son of man, the way man is the son of the engineers, he is observing and understanding a lot of the above themes, while Rapace is the one who discovers and lives through them, such as loss, faith, love, motherhood. There really is some depth in those two characters, but it becomes quite muddled and the themes arent presented too clearly to feel satisfying enough outside of the two primaries.

So to sum up i think the script touches subtly on these themes through it's characters, but plot wise, not so much. this certainly isn't blade runner, you won't be debating on certain scenes, it takes the idea and boils it down to a usual typical sci fi plot.

And I guess how would you rank it among other Ridley Scott films? If you feel like you need to see it again before you can do that that's understandable. Finally do you feel like it could be better on a second viewing or not?

It's certainly no where near the level of theatrical kingdom of heaven, Hannibal or Robin Hood, it's more Black Hawk Down or Gladiator level of good, not exactly his best work but definitely in the upper echelon of what he does.

 

[Aesop Rocks]

I'll answer your question without any real spoilers but ill still put in tags for the benefit of others here.

Spoiler

The Engineer looked impressive visually, as a physical specimen on their own they look pretty badass and intimidating rather than outright terrifying, probably because you come to think of them more as a god rather than an evil destructive force like the Xenomorphs. That doesn't mean they don't have their evil moments though.

Oh and I do sound harsh on the film, but i really liked it, it's not a bad film, nor is it a mediocre film, it's a really good film, not exactly what i was expecting, i think once it's settled in my head, i would love to revisit it with the new context of what i know. If the writing was lacking, the direction was damn near flawless considered with what Ridley had to work with.

What does the [BLACKOUT]Proto-Xenomorph look like?[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Crockett]

Some rough thoughts so excuse me if it feels jumbled up.

I’ve seen it and I liked it, since I’ve lowered my expectations for the film to reach the same level as Alien (which would’ve been crazy now that I think of it) it was easier for me to digest, almost every single aspect from the consistently beautiful visuals, directing, the grand sets, atmosphere was breathtaking and top notch, it felt like a lot of the attention was paid more into those aspects than the actual screenplay. I mean look, Alien had that human interactions handled in a credible manner, the dialogue, the arguments and all that jazz. Here it gives me little reason to invest emotionally or even having a slightest care since it has too many characters and just a few of them flesh-out, most of them fall flat and are tokens for some nasty **** but Rapace’s has an actual fieriness for the role and Fassbender’s David (as you might expect, a scene-stealer) his perfomance elevated what was presented to him.

Now I thought theology was a theme that they will explore but it was touch upon the surface briefly, never having the spark to give it a real fruition. I feel like its real intention was lost, on one hand Ridley wanted to make this film be like a meditaton on creating life and playing God, similar to what Ridley explored in Blade Runner but then there’s the other part of him that wants to answer the questions viewers got from Alien, I can’t fault on the film’s ambition but it felt like the conceptions were running against one other and it made the film suffers, feeling disjointed between the sci-fi and the suspence horror. Also the film on whole opened up lots of questions, answered a few and then open up even more to set up a room of a sequel, I have mixed feelings about that. Now this might sound like I'm in a disagreement towards the film when it’s actually more like me having contrasting feelings, I've come to not expect another Alien in which case I wasn't disappointed but I felt underwhelmed in some way (can’t put my finger on) despite that I do enjoyed every minute of it and I have to say the 3D are subtle and not bad. Right now it’s a 3/5 for me but perhaps it’ll grow on me upon further contemplation.

 

[obin_gam]

So its like what Ridley said in the beginning then when it was first announced? Ie. "it's not a prequel to alien, it's not a prequel to alien, it's not a prequel to alien, it's not a prequel to alien, it's not a prequel to alien" but NOOOOOOOOO no one wanted to listen haha :P


Anyhow, the film looks quite dark in the trailers lightinwise so how is the 3D? Is it good or does it obscure the vision?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So its like what Ridley said in the beginning then when it was first announced? Ie. "it's not a prequel to alien, it's not a prequel to alien, it's not a prequel to alien, it's not a prequel to alien, it's not a prequel to alien" but NOOOOOOOOO no one wanted to listen haha :P


Anyhow, the film looks quite dark in the trailers lightinwise so how is the 3D? Is it good or does it obscure the vision?

Except it is a prequel to Alien.

 

[Roose Bolton]

To paraphrase Guy Pearce "I think they're not calling it a prequel because most or prequels aren't that good."

 

[BuddhaWasABat]

Unlike Lindelof doing Prometheus, Hamton Fancher is doing the script for the second, if they can bring David and Janet Peoples onto the script as well, it has a much better chance of being great. I think Ridley might be using Prometheus and a blade runner sequel to not only open new franchises for new directors/the studio but to perfectly bookend his career.

It's great that he is bringing back the original writer of Blade Runner for this, that shows he really has respect for it. Still, how do we know he is capable of writing a good follow up? What else has he written in his career?? It's not going to be a direct sequel, I know that much. It will have a female lead and be very different. Here is my issue, it will have something to do with Blade Runner and probably will touch on the same themes etc. Those things were already addressed perfectly before. Blade Runner is so ambiguous I just don't see why it needs any further exploration. It's risky. Too risky. Now if it does turn out to be a success and live up to the original, which I doubt (but admit it isn't impossible), than that would be awesome. By that I don't mean turn out better than Blade Runner, because I see no chance of that, but just living up to BR is hard enough. It seems unnecessary. I don't think many feel that universe needs further exploration.

One more thing, Scott is old now, and I want to see him revisit Sci Fi but I don't want him to keep dwelling on the past. He has that Brave New World project that probably wont happen but was planned and never officially cancelled. I would love to see him do that. I would love to see him do that before some other director gets a hold of it because IMO he is one of the few (not the only, but one of the very few) who could do the book justice. Even if that never happens though, he is old and I want him to explore new realms before he's done. He has a better chance at succeeding at something original IMO than dwelling on something from the past that is just fine as is.

All that out of the way, the script is already been started and being written, so I hope I can find a bright side in the future. What I think of Prometheus (even though it apparently doesn't revisit that past as much we all might have thought) will shape whether I get more comfortable with the idea of a BR sequel or not.

It's certainly no where near the level of theatrical kingdom of heaven, Hannibal or Robin Hood, it's more Black Hawk Down or Gladiator level of good, not exactly his best work but definitely in the upper echelon of what he does.

I thought Robin Hood was terrible, but I have very little personal interest in the tale of Robin Hood so there isn't a Robin Hood movie one could make that would capture my attention. Most people didn't like it though, even fans of Robin Hood, and even the Directors Cut wasn't considered special by most. To each there own.

As for Hannibal, I did enjoy that (to an extent) and think it's pretty damn underrated. I have never been a big fan of Silence of the Lambs or the whole saga of Hannibal in the first place. Hannibal is the only one I found interesting, and the only one I think truly does real justice to what the nature of a human being like that would actually be like

And when you say Kingdom of Heaven, do you mean the Directors Cut? The theatrical release was a mess, nearly nobody enjoyed it. The DC though is very good and underrated. That is in my top 5 Ridley movies for sure. Still, I didn't like it quite as much as Gladiator (or Matchstick Men.) Since you say it's equal in quality to Gladiator though, that makes me pretty happy. Gladiator is pretty much tied with Alien as my second favorite Scott film. Blade Runner is my all time favorite movie, and I never expected Prometheus to be as great or as deep as that. It doesn't have to be though, and it shouldn't try.

 

[Mandalore464]

What does the [BLACKOUT]Proto-Xenomorph look like?[/BLACKOUT]

Spoiler

Try to picture a dog-sized xenomorph, cream-coloured, that looks basically like a more organic version than the usual bio-mechanical look the xenomorphs had in the former installments. It's a little less sleek, more flesh and bone...

Lots of good reviews out there (I mean "good" as in "well-written, well-argued, and basically spot-on"), and I feel more or less that we are all in agreement over what our expectations were going in, and what our reactions were coming out.

I don't think we have a Blade Runner type "love it or hate it" thing going on here, it's more a question of people who watch a film only to see a story unfold and character being developed as opposed to other people who can enjoy a film that's overwhelming through its visuals and symbolism.

There's a certain amount of unfairness though when it comes to character development. I'd just like to say that in the first Alien, and I tend to side with BuddhaWasABat here, there wasn't that much character development. It doesn't come from dialogue of course, it's just that I felt the movie was more about the danger and the sense of threat the characters were facing than about them at all. Sure, they came to be defined by the way they reacted to that danger, but I never felt that was the point of the film. I'd never call it a character movie, is what I mean.

I think Prometheus is exactly on the same level. Its characters are as much and as well developed. But they're just not as interesting.

Quite simply because the archetypes they represent -[BLACKOUT]the no-nonsense captain, the cold hard b...tch, the sneaky android with his own agenda, the strong female lead who's trying to come to terms with her personal faith and inability to conceive, the technical crew who's only in it for the cash, etc.[/BLACKOUT] - and the oppositions that are created through those archetypes is something that we are now all used to, while it was pretty new at the time of Alien. And those from Prometheus offer nothing new, cause if you read my blacked-out description, you can see how similar the characters are in Alien and Prometheus. I think that's a big flaw on Ridley's, but primarily the writer's part (I've never seen Lost, but I definitely won't).

Anyway, Prometheus has character development. But the tone and type of the story (scientific exploration gone wrong) means we don't necessarily get to side with them, while in Alien, the fact that they were trapped inside a ship with a deadly creature hunting them down was what made it work. The characters were defined through the sense of threat they had to live with.

 

[Sharkboy]

I thought Robin Hood was terrible, but I have very little personal interest in the tale of Robin Hood so there isn't a Robin Hood movie one could make that would capture my attention. Most people didn't like it though, even fans of Robin Hood, and even the Directors Cut wasn't considered special by most. To each there own.

As for Hannibal, I did enjoy that (to an extent) and think it's pretty damn underrated. I have never been a big fan of Silence of the Lambs or the whole saga of Hannibal in the first place. Hannibal is the only one I found interesting, and the only one I think truly does real justice to what the nature of a human being like that would actually be like

And when you say Kingdom of Heaven, do you mean the Directors Cut? The theatrical release was a mess, nearly nobody enjoyed it. The DC though is very good and underrated. That is in my top 5 Ridley movies for sure. Still, I didn't like it quite as much as Gladiator (or Matchstick Men.) Since you say it's equal in quality to Gladiator though, that makes me pretty happy. Gladiator is pretty much tied with Alien as my second favorite Scott film. Blade Runner is my all time favorite movie, and I never expected Prometheus to be as great or as deep as that. It doesn't have to be though, and it shouldn't try.

I mean kingdom of heaven, robin hood and hannibal were terrible so it never reaches that level of bad, make no mistake, no matter how many people tell you it's flaws you'll very rarely hear that its a bad film.

 

[Sharkboy]

What does the [BLACKOUT]Proto-Xenomorph look like?[/BLACKOUT]

Spoiler

Kinda cute actually. but pretty much you get the basic outline of it's body and the whole audience was waiting for it's mouth to open to see the iconic shot of it, it looks kinda weird, pretty different from the original design, but the message is pretty clear...it's the xenomorph

 

[spidey-dude]

Oh and I do sound harsh on the film, but i really liked it, it's not a bad film, nor is it a mediocre film, it's a really good film, not exactly what i was expecting, i think once it's settled in my head, i would love to revisit it with the new context of what i know. If the writing was lacking, the direction was damn near flawless considered with what Ridley had to work with.

eaxactly how I feel about it - I am seeing it again on sat - with different expectations about how it fits into the Alien lore I think I will enjoy it more

 

[spidey-dude]

Spoiler

Kinda cute actually. but pretty much you get the basic outline of it's body and the whole audience was waiting for it's mouth to open to see the iconic shot of it, it looks kinda weird, pretty different from the original design, but the message is pretty clear...it's the xenomorph

Spoiler

I think the mouth shot is different because that was a newborn version of the queen from Aliens... the mouth resembles it slightly, and it looked like it had an egg sack

 

[Sharkboy]

eaxactly how I feel about it - I am seeing it again on sat - with different expectations about how it fits into the Alien lore I think I will enjoy it more

Exactly once i had a nice chat about what it all meant in the grand scheme of things, and i knew what characters did and what their motivations are, I felt a lot less WTF about it and i found myself really enjoying what i saw, a second viewing would hit the spot perfectly.

 

[spidey-dude]

Spoiler

Try to picture a dog-sized xenomorph, cream-coloured, that looks basically like a more organic version than the usual bio-mechanical look the xenomorphs had in the former installments. It's a little less sleek, more flesh and bone...

[BLACKOUT]errrrrm the one I saw definitely was not flesh coloured....[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Gianakin_]

I'm glad you guys watched it before me, 'cause now my expectations have gone to a realistic level and I may be able to enjoy it as intended in 6 days.

 

[spidey-dude]

Exactly once i had a nice chat about what it all meant in the grand scheme of things, and i knew what characters did and what their motivations are, I felt a lot less WTF about it and i found myself really enjoying what i saw, a second viewing would hit the spot perfectly.

I don't know anyone else who has seen it

Big spoilers below people

Spoiler

At first the ending really annoyed me because I thought that was the ship from Alien, and the flying off ending normally bugs me too in films.... but i realised that it fits the theme of wanting answers and not nessacarily getting them. I would guess that the Xeno is the queen and lays all the eggs in another spacecraft. One of which hatches and impregnates (is that the word) the jockey in cryo. When he wakes he attempts to flee the planet but chest bursts and that is the original ship from alien.... the only thing that bothered me in the film which had no explanation was that clearly xenos already existed as there were the piles of bodies with burst chests, but we never found out what happened to them, presumably they would be on the ship somewhere?

 

[Mandalore464]

[BLACKOUT]errrrrm the one I saw definitely was not flesh coloured....[/BLACKOUT]

[BLACKOUT]
I said "cream" not "flesh". It was definitely of a dirty white tint in the film I saw... Kind of like the chestburster in the first Alien. With less yellow. Please don't tell me I'm colorblind.
[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Sharkboy]

I don't know anyone else who has seen it

Big spoilers below people

Spoiler

At first the ending really annoyed me because I thought that was the ship from Alien, and the flying off ending normally bugs me too in films.... but i realised that it fits the theme of wanting answers and not nessacarily getting them. I would guess that the Xeno is the queen and lays all the eggs in another spacecraft. One of which hatches and impregnates (is that the word) the jockey in cryo. When he wakes he attempts to flee the planet but chest bursts and that is the original ship from alien.... the only thing that bothered me in the film which had no explanation was that clearly xenos already existed as there were the piles of bodies with burst chests, but we never found out what happened to them, presumably they would be on the ship somewhere?

Spoiler

The way i see it, the xenomorphs are basically a side effect when someone who is exposed to that virus mates with someone else, it's not hard to imagine the engineers acciddently being exposed to the stuff and then reproducing (either for experiment or by mistake) which probably birthed a different type of xenomorph that has probably died out. (the engineer in the beginning was committing suicide maybe because he/it was impregnated) So in that effect, Dr Shaw would be the mother of the queen (who is the first of her kind) It would also explain why the xenomorphs have somewhat a humanoid appearance. I'm also going to speculate that it doesn't really matter who or what births it (in this case an engineer) the DNA clearly comes from holloway and shaw

 

[lililatigresse]

To the people who have seen it

Spoiler

do you think the engineers creating life, I mean us, was an accident? I mean people in this film want to know why they created us and why now they want to destroy us. But I felt like it was just an accident and now, we are just some nasty weeds they want to get rid of. Like Weyland said there's nothing there.

 

[Naked Shia]

That's what I think as well.