Prometheus - Part 7

[Wolfwood]

Also, I love Idris Elba to death. I thought he was going to be an extremely minor character who would fall prey to "black guy dies first" syndrome. Glad to see I was wrong.

 

[Lord]

Ridley is planning a Trilogy? I thought he just had a sequel planed, therefore making Prometheus a 2 parts.

By the way, speaking of the debate about 2001 it definitely needed the pacing it had, but in a way it was also a completelly different experience from Prometheus, i loved 2001, but i can't say the same about The Three of Life, which tried to do the same as 2001 but ended up being too inconsistent for my liking.

 

[nightwing06]

The crew of the Prometheus travel across the universe with questions about our beginning.
I went to see Prometheus with questions that were raised in the first Alien film.
Did anyone get answers?...Welll sort of.

33 years after the first Alien film Director Ridley Scott returns to that world with a bigger canvas
in which he paints much broader strokes.
Scott and writers Jon Spaihts, Damon Lindelof start the film with the timeless questions who made us?
why did he make us? where do we go when we die? This part of the film definitley appealed to my
religious side and he puts us on the same path as archaeologist couple Elizabeth Shaw (Noomi Rapace) and
Charlie Holloway (Logan Marshall-Green). They are filled with enthusiasm,and they have their facts and
theories but they long for that solid evidence,they long to question and touch their "creator".
I liken them to those that have faith and God in their hearts but they still need that person that preaches to them from the
pulpit every Sunday that physical being or thing to hold on to, the same way Shaw holds on to her cross on her necklace.

The 3D in the film is flawless.The wake from cryo sleep scene from Avatar came to mind when viewing Prometheus.
It is consistently beautiful and stunning.
Rapace is perfect as Shaw.Displaying that same vulnerable,toughness Sigourney Weaver displayed in the Alien films.
Marshall-Green is good as her partner and lover displaying the right amount of enthusiasm and disappointment.
As the android David, Michael Fassbender is perfect.I didnt quite know what his intentions were so it definitley made
him stand out.For the second week in a row Charlize Theron portrays an ice cold woman but this time with a little heat ,as the mission
director Meredith Vickers.Idris Elba as The Prometheus' captain Janek is the only other character that is a bit fleshed out aside
from Guy Pearce, as Peter Weyland elder CEO of Weyland Corporation who funds the mission.They both do well with
their small roles.Frightful,stomach churning ,want to look away moments are provided which i quite enjoyed.


The second half of the film is definitley not as thought provoking as the first half that annoying answer a question with a question thing happens.
There are various inconsitencies,predictable moments,and underdeveloped characters make beyond silly decisions.
The way the story jumps around in the second half,i could tell the film had been edited,maybe for time or to try to tighten up the story.
The actions and motivations of some of the characters are murky to the tenth power.

In some ways i understand why Scott allows the story to go down its open ended path.After watching his Alien story veer off and splinter
into so many other films and publications over the years,Scott wants to continue tell his own Alien story.But in doing so he sacrifices and
dilutes the stronger movie Prometheus could have been.

Prometheus is in no way a bad film but i guess i was expecting more of a solid story.Im not sure where the story goes from here,but im hoping
the DVD with extended scenes fill in the holes in this Alien chapter

Scale of 1-10 a 7½

 

[The Slang]

Spoiler

At first I was confused about the function of this black liquid, mainly because of the first scene where we see the engineer drinking it, but after considering things like the mural, the final scene and the 'hammerpedes' (snakes), I think the best explanation is that this oil is a seed that produces a Xenomorph when added to a lifeform.
Those hammerpedes had yellow acid for blood, just like every xeno we ever see, so they must be xenos themselves. The mural indicates that the engineers already knew that the oil would eventually produce humanoid xenos and face huggers, probably because they had already exposed it to humanoids in the past.
I don't believe Shaw's baby was a random mutation (that would most likely just kill the embryo, not turn it into a perfectly formed symmetrical squid baby). I believe the oil is supposed to sabotage the reproductive system in exactly the way it did with Holloway. It matches the later stages in the xeno's life cycle which also require hosts to reproduce. I think what happened to holloway and shaw happened to those worms from the vase room. Being worms they'd reproduce much faster, so they had already gone through the 'squid baby' phase and produced a chest burster (like at the end of the movie) by the time we see the hammerpedes. The process was slower with the humanoid victims, with the first chestburster not appearing until the end.
The zombie creating thing might just be a side effect used to help weaken the host population.
My thoughts are that this oil is a weapon you're meant to disperse across an entire atmosphere, infecting millions with a tiny amount. So all over the place you have creatures trying to reproduce but instead producing squid babies which populate the planet with xenos. While this is going on, you have the long term infected becoming zombies and attacking the survivors making it easier for the xenomorph population to grow. The End result is complete extinction of host species. But I did see some concept art that showed the Fifield zombie/mutant was originally going to look a bit more xeno like, almost like he was becoming one himself.

 

[The Slang]

Spoiler

Though I'm aware this still wouldn't explain what happend to the engineer who drinks the liquid at the beginning, unless they were two different liquids.

 

[Viscal]

and even more

The bottom pic is from "Prometheus: The Art of the Film" book

 

[Doctor Jones]

Okay, now I confused myself here,

Spoiler

the pilot is no longer in the space suit sitting at the space jockey? Because that's the same one that came after Shaw. So in Alien, there is no longer anybody in it right?

 

[Eggyman]

Okay, now I confused myself here,

Spoiler

the pilot is no longer in the space suit sitting at the space jockey? Because that's the same one that came after Shaw. So in Alien, there is no longer anybody in it right?

It confused me at first. This might hurt:

Spoiler

It's not the same planet, ship, or space jockey.

I took it as an example of how similar events may happen, unless they find a way to link it further with coming sequels. Until then, I'll see it as an example of how sh** can go bad.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I liked this movie but the script was definitely flawed with the same problems as Lost - ambitious ideas, flaky execution, resorting to religious allegory to explain plot points, etc.

Ridley Scott needs to work with better screenwriters.

Gentlemen, you do realize there are possibly two other sequels coming, right? Ridley is no idiot. I'm certain (as the creator) he's aware that the ship and planet featured in Alien and Aliens did not match the planet and ship in Prometheus.

But the other two could be its own story as what this was originally sought out to be in this film.

Spoiler

By the end of this film, I got the impression that the two stories that intersected (the Prometheus one and the Alien one) pretty much went their separate ways, leading the xenomorph at the end to do its own thing setting up Alien. And with Shaw's story, I think we could learn more about the Engineers and their mythology than anything more with the xenomorphs.

That's what I liked about this film. How it starts off as its own thing then it just happens to intersect with what happens before Alien. I thought the script really succeeded in that regard. But now I think we could continue with Shaw's "why" questions but still trying to do what she wanted to do at the beginning of the film.

Now of course I'm not certain, as it could be anything. I just don't buy that

Spoiler

Scott would go out of his way to set all of this up and not let it be the same ship. I get the value of discussion, but I feel some people wanted more to it. But really, I think that's it.

 

[gohei_]

Okay, now I confused myself here,

Spoiler

the pilot is no longer in the space suit sitting at the space jockey? Because that's the same one that came after Shaw. So in Alien, there is no longer anybody in it right?

Spoiler

First of all, the pilot IS the space jockey, or engineer or what you wanna call them. Also this is not the same planet as seen in Alien, it's not a direct prequel.

Edit: Eggyman beat me to it.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I think it is. You people seem to think or know that for sure. Has it been said by Scott and Lindelof otherwise?

I mean for God sake, the moment you see the room of the space jockey, the feeling is that, "Oh, this is it." It's how it was presented that told me that

Spoiler

it was the same place.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

Well it says the planet is LV-223 on a display during one scene. It's not the same planet as Alien. Simple as that. I believe Ridley shot those scenes that way for the fans to get excited in their seats. I know I did


I started reading At The Mountains of Madness tonight in regards to that Del Toro debate a while ago. Going to see how related the two texts are (they already seem to follow similar premises).

 

[Eggyman]

I think it is. You people seem to think or know that for sure. Has it been said by Scott and Lindelof otherwise?

I mean for God sake, the moment you see the room of the space jockey, the feeling is that, "Oh, this is it." It's how it was presented that told me that

Spoiler

it was the same place.

You people?

Spoiler

I only took away what they gave me. If they wanted it to be the same place, they should have it make more sense. Giving the planet a different name and having the jockey die in a different location is reason enough. Scott and Lindeloft shouldn't need to say anything else. Like in literature--if you have to explain to your audience what's happened, you're doing it wrong.

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

saw it last night, honestly meh a complete disappointment

bland characters, boring story that dragged like hell and just blah
the pros were great effects and the 3d scenes looked stunning, but the rest was just for the like of a better words lacklustre and boring

aside form all the nitpicks to do with the rest of the franchise( i know people say its not a direct prequel but if you include characters, setting and ideas from a franchise its a bloody prequel) hell i've heard some fans say it goes out fo the way to remove and "discredit" other aspects of the franchise like removing the alien queen idea and such. i'm not a huge fan of the alien mythos so i'm not sure but i'd like to see why they think this

Spoiler

now like i said i dont know the whole ins and outs "geek facts" for the franchise for the idea that alien was a different planet and a different crashed ship, that thing at the end was obliviously the beginnings of the xenomorph. so for it to be on a different planet it either

a) gain space travel and crashed, hence the eggs in the space jockey room
b) the whole thing happened exactly the same on a different planet, with the person being infected, the pregnancy, the squid facehugging and engineer and the birth of alien again

others have said it ties more in with the directors cut of alien, which is pushing it even for obscure film buffs

to me its another avatar, it had no impact or story worth to me but its fans will defend it rabidly

the film just had no impact, i'm in the uk so its been out a while and got rave reviews from some artsy critics but more and more word of mouth is becoming negative

 

[moviedoors]

Nope. That's the whole point. Mysterious goop = no evolution.

Well, I'm glad you so precisely explained that for me.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Spoiler

Yeah, I mean in a sequel, they could explain it more. Because we don't know anything yet with what they could go with next. I was probably wrong to think they would just end it here because there could be more to explain in terms of what the Engineers were creating. And it still could be connected to the xenomorphs. Like the xenomorph on the mural. I don't think that has been addressed yet. Because the whole idea of the room and Engineer in it can go in a few different directions. When we get in the room in Alien, I think it could be like, "Was this the place where it happened for sure?" It would make us stop and second guess it after all instead of just giving us the definite answer. The point Scott could be making is that we found out what goes on and causes something like that, but did what we saw in this film happen in that room? We don't know for sure still. But we do have a much better understanding of what could have happened.

As with the

Spoiler

name of the planet being different, like I said earlier, it could have been changed. How many years does this take place before Alien? Believe me, the name of the planet and the look and atmosphere on the planet all came to mind when I watching the film. Again, like I said, the Weyland Corporation could have caught wind of what happened and changed the name of the planet to cover anything up. And with the atmosphere and look, it might have changed and evolved over the years.

 

[Lord]

Spoiler

Yeah, I mean in a sequel, they could explain it more. Because we don't know anything yet with what they could go with next. I was probably wrong to think they would just end it here because there could be more to explain in terms of what the Engineers were creating. And it still could be connected to the xenomorphs. Like the xenomorph on the mural. I don't think that has been addressed yet. Because the whole idea of the room and Engineer in it can go in a few different directions. When we get in the room in Alien, I think it could be like, "Was this the place where it happened for sure?" It would make us stop and second guess it after all instead of just giving us the definite answer. The point Scott could be making is that we found out what goes on and causes something like that, but did what we saw in this film happen in that room? We don't know for sure still. But we do have a much better understanding of what could have happened.

As with the

Spoiler

name of the planet being different, like I said earlier, it could have been changed. How many years does this take place before Alien? Believe me, the name of the planet and the look and atmosphere on the planet all came to mind when I watching the film. Again, like I said, the Weyland Corporation could have caught wind of what happened and changed the name of the planet to cover anything up. And with the atmosphere and look, it might have changed and evolved over the years.

Prometheus takes place during the same year that Riplay was born, so it must take place some 30 year before the original Alien film.

I think that to tie both films it would have been better if:

Spoiler

Vickers survived too, the planet from the film was the same from Alien, the space jockey went to his cannon chair and the alien burst out of his chest like he was orginally found in Alien, so when Vickers went back to earth she would take over Weyland and possibly merge it to become Weylan-Yutani, then 30 years later she again becomes interested in what was on the planet and makes the Nostromo crew check it out.

This would also let Shaw go her oun way to the space jockeys planet and at the same time would be able to set up the xenomorph plotfor the Alien films, so that they can do their oun thing with the Prometheus sequels that doesn't involve the Aliens.

But still, 30 years is not that enough time for a planet to change so drastically, it cold happen, but it normally takes much more time.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Prometheus takes place during the same year that Riplay was born, so it must take place some 30 year before the original Alien film.

I think that to tie both films it would have been better if:

Spoiler

Vickers survived too, the planet from the film was the same from Alien, the space jockey went to his cannon chair and the alien burst out of his chest like he was orginally found in Alien, so when Vickers went back to earth she would take over Weyland and possibly merge it to become Weylan-Yutani, then 30 years later she again becomes interested in what was on the planet and makes the Nostromo crew check it out.

This would also let Shaw go her oun way to the space jockeys planet and at the same time would be able to set up the xenomorph plotfor the Alien films, so that they can do their oun thing with the Prometheus sequels that doesn't involve the Aliens.

But still, 30 years is not that enough time for a planet to change so drastically, it cold happen, but it normally takes much more time.

Spoiler

30 years? Yeah, I was thinking if the gap wasn't so big between films then it can't really do anything in that time span.

Perhaps the planet has different patterns of weather or is a seasonal type of thing?

The thing is though, the ship crashed in Prometheus. Did the ship in Alien appear to be crashed? Because if both did, that's a pretty big coincidence.

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

personally the biggest reaction my screen got was someone shouting so the worms mutated quick get me some baby turtles

 

[gohei_]

personally the biggest reaction my screen got was someone shouting so the worms mutated quick get me some baby turtles

And the spin-off would be the Michale Bay Ninja Turtles movie

 

[moviedoors]

According to this logic, you could've lost Dallas, Lambert, and Brett easily in the first movie. But that's just not how things always work. You have to create characters to fit the story. Alien required a certain number of characters and so did Aliens---and they focused on those that mattered. Prometheus did the same.

Again, Merc 1, Merc 2, Merc 3, Merc 4.

7 sharply and efficiently drawn characters versus one great android, someone defined by a faith that consists "because I feel like it", some pilots whose character consist entirely of having a bet, inconsistent and annoyingly written scientists, and bunch of characters who literally don't even have names. It's not even close to an apt comparison.

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

And the spin-off would be the Michale Bay Ninja Turtles movie

i wondered why that guy was *****ing about more explosions on the way out

though seriously though, the fact that a lot of "real" critics are calling this film a perfect masterpiece and rating it 5/5 10/10 etc

really makes you think they they actually watch the same film as the rest of us, they are basically calling it perfect which it was really far far from

 

[Balthus Dire]

Again, Merc 1, Merc 2, Merc 3, Merc 4.

7 sharply and efficiently drawn characters versus one great android, someone defined by a faith that consists "because I feel like it", some pilots whose character consist entirely of having a bet, inconsistent and annoyingly written scientists, and bunch of characters who literally don't even have names. It's not even close to an apt comparison.

Agreed. I seriously can't understand where people are drawing "deep" or "interesting" characters from most of the cast. Yes, I will say that David was interesting, and Shaw was engaging though her motives were muddled at times. But other than that, the crew is so bland and generic. Even Idris and Charlize, who are both great actors, resort to sitting around or standing and looking angry for the majority of the film. Comparing the characters to the caliber seen in Alien is a huge stretch.

 

[Lord]

i wondered why that guy was *****ing about more explosions on the way out

though seriously though, the fact that a lot of "real" critics are calling this film a perfect masterpiece and rating it 5/5 10/10 etc

really makes you think they they actually watch the same film as the rest of us, they are basically calling it perfect which it was really far far from

Maybe they saw something in the film we didn't, but whatever, critics also liked Avatar a lot, but criticise other films that have some of the same problems it had.

 

[chamber-music]

Prometheus and Alien take place on different planets. Prometheus takes place on LV-223 and Alien LV-426.


Acheron (LV-426) is the second of three natural satellites that orbit Calpamos, which is the fifth planet from the star Zeta 2 Reticuli.

It has a 1200 km diameter at its quadrant points QBR 157 052 and has a molten lava base. The atmosphere on Acheron is comprised of 10% Argon, 85% Nitrogen and 5% Neon and the planet maintains a gravitational field equivalent to 0.86 of that on Earth.

(LV-223)
It is in one of three moons of a ringed gas giant, orbiting the star Gleis 86.

The principal component of the weather is gas, which causes the large silicia storm system across the moon's surface. The atmosphere is composed of 71% of nitrogen, 3% carbon dioxide and 23% oxygen. It also contains small amounts of argon, detected by the ship Prometheus.

Similar but not the same.