Question About X3 Wolverine vs Phoenix Scene

[wolverine82]

When Wolverine is going against Phoenix at the end of X3, what is the deal with the water rising up in the air around the island. Does that mean something or was it just an effect of her powers?

 

[Cyma]

Effect of her powers.

 

[Sunstar]

I've also wondered why jean did that b/c it did absolutely nothing! This is typical of Brett Ratner, 'throw in all these cool effects just for the sake of it, it doesn't really matter what they do as long as its there,'. I would also like to know why the rocks and water were floating around at Alkali Lake after Jean killed Cyclops b/c we never see anything like that through the rest of the film! These effects where either there b/c Ratner thought the effects looked cool or was trying to hint at something else but knowing Ratner I'd go with the former!

 

[X-Maniac]

The floating rocks and upwardly dripping water were because of the 'massive electromagnetic force' generated by her emergence, which was detected by Callisto and was enough to negate gravity for many things around the epicentre of the force. The same force of her TK power makes objects move and rise in the infirmary and at her parents' house, and at Alcatraz - the cool thing about the water is that it could be interpreted as the talons of the Phoenix getting the island in its grip - much like those comicbook images showing the Phoenix raptor's talons surrounding a person/object/star....

The original intention was to have the water form into a dome around the island, much like the 'oxygen dome' of the Blue Area of the moon where she fought her final battle and died.

 

[AznBABYBANDIT]

he did it... for no purpose...

 

[X-Maniac]

he did it... for no purpose...

Wrong. Read my answer above.

 

[November Rain]

The floating rocks and upwardly dripping water were because of the 'massive electromagnetic force' generated by her emergence, which was detected by Callisto and was enough to negate gravity for many things around the epicentre of the force. The same force of her TK power makes objects move and rise in the infirmary and at her parents' house, and at Alcatraz - the cool thing about the water is that it could be interpreted as the talons of the Phoenix getting the island in its grip - much like those comicbook images showing the Phoenix raptor's talons surrounding a person/object/star....

The original intention was to have the water form into a dome around the island, much like the 'oxygen dome' of the Blue Area of the moon where she fought her final battle and died.

this is jargon..

if gravity was completely negated at either times, wolverine and storm wouldn't have been able to walk at alkali lake or at alcatraz (just wolverine as well as the other civilians). also when it came to the house, some members were stuck on the ceiling while others where left on the ground, she was still standing. her powers weren't negating gravity at the epicentre.

besides, water doesn't flow when in a zero gravity environment, and there was a definite flow direction of water in all the scenes where we see it.



all jargon...

 

[AznBABYBANDIT]

they could walk, however, "GP" it would not be as... you know... easy...

 

[britrogue]

It actually really reminded me of the scene where Magneto uses his machine infront of Senator Kelly in X1.

 

[X-Maniac]

this is jargan..

if gravity was completely negated at either times, wolverine and storm wouldn't have been able to walk at alkali lake or at alcatraz (just wolverine as well as the other civilians). also when it came to the house, some members were stuck on the ceiling while others where left on the ground, she was still standing. her powers weren't negating gravity at the epicentre.

besides, water doesn't flow when in a zero gravity environment, and there was a definite flow direction of water in all the scenes where we see it.



all jargan...

The word is 'jargon'.

Regardless, this is sci-fi. Objects were affected by her massive powers. Storm and Wolverine arrived after she used her powers. It's what was there at the time that was affected. A great effect I thought...

 

[Sunstar]

The floating rocks and upwardly dripping water were because of the 'massive electromagnetic force' generated by her emergence, which was detected by Callisto and was enough to negate gravity for many things around the epicentre of the force. The same force of her TK power makes objects move and rise in the infirmary and at her parents' house, and at Alcatraz - the cool thing about the water is that it could be interpreted as the talons of the Phoenix getting the island in its grip - much like those comicbook images showing the Phoenix raptor's talons surrounding a person/object/star....

The original intention was to have the water form into a dome around the island, much like the 'oxygen dome' of the Blue Area of the moon where she fought her final battle and died.

Thanks for the explaining that but I wish the Phoenix claws had manifested out of fire(telekinetic) and light rather than water! I also agree with November rains answer though, and certain things were inconsistent; like why Logan and the others were stuck to the ceiling while Magneto was on the floor(the water was flowing upwards behind him so Magneto should have been on the ceiling)! Its just seems silly when filmmakers put in all these amazing effects in without fully thinking everything out!

 

[X-Maniac]

Thanks for the explaining that but I wish the Phoenix claws had manifested out of fire(telekinetic) and light rather than water! I also agree with November rains answer though, and certain things were inconsistent; like why Logan and the others were stuck to the ceiling while Magneto was on the floor(the water was flowing upwards behind him so Magneto should have been on the ceiling)! Its just seems silly when filmmakers put in all these amazing effects in without fully thinking everything out!

It wasn't inconsistent. Magneto was on the floor because he was anchoring himself there in a magnetic force field (hence his outstretched arms).

(in the novel, it backs this up and says his magnetic field warped compasses for miles)

 

[November Rain]

The word is 'jargon'.

Regardless, this is sci-fi. Objects were affected by her massive powers. Storm and Wolverine arrived after she used her powers. It's what was there at the time that was affected. A great effect I thought...

your obsevartions aren't conclusive because in two cases when civilians were around at the same time as her power outbursts, there are no signs of these civilians existing in a zero gravity environment, nor are the water molecules acting as if they are in a zero gravity environment either.

she simply wasn't turning off gravity, that's what i'm getting out, your hypothesis isn't justified by what we seen on the screen.

upsetting laws of nature, yes. simply turning off gravity, nope

 

[Sunstar]

It wasn't inconsistent. Magneto was on the floor because he was anchoring himself there in a magnetic force field (hence his outstretched arms).

(in the novel, it backs this up and says his magnetic field warped compasses for miles)

Oh!

 

[X-Maniac]

your obsevartions aren't conclusive because in two cases when civilians were around at the same time as her power outbursts, there are no signs of these civilians existing in a zero gravity environment, nor are the water molecules acting as if they are in a zero gravity environment either.

she simply wasn't turning off gravity, that's what i'm getting out, your hypothesis isn't justified by what we seen on the screen.

upsetting laws of nature, yes. simply turning off gravity, nope

Those bouncing rocks were very much behaving as though they were in a low-gravity or zero-gravity setting.... I don't know how dripping water behaves in zero gravity, but they showed it dripping upwards as though there were no gravitational forces pulling it down.

Electromagnetism can cancel the pull of gravity when applied to an object. That's how maglev trains work. Scientists have also levitated a frog by applying a strong enough magnetic field to overcome the gravity acting on the frog. Nothing else but the frog was affected.

Since her power is clearly electromagnetic (brainwaves are electromagnetic and Callisto clearly says she senses a massive electromagnetic force), it seems plausible that she is, in specific or random instances, cancelling or reducing the gravity on certain objects or materials. It's not a 'blanket effect' covering everything in a certain radius, it's as random and unpredictable as her power, as focused as she wants or as focused as it makes itself....

 

[flavio_lebeau]

I interpreted it this way:
Jean's powers also come from her subconscious mind. In the lake, even though she had passed out, her mind was subconsciously still working, thus her telekinesis was lifting random things.
The key point that everybody should have noticed is that Jean is extremely powerful, but she has little control over her powers (thats the reason why professor supressed her).
In the house, she starts destroying everything, lifting everything, but the last thing she gets to lift is what she wanted to lift since the beggining: the Professor. I took as they battle in mind, but then she realises his mind is too powerful, so she starts to cause physical damage. She couldnt focus her power, thats why she stands up, concentrates and all that. Even so, it still takes a while to lift him. Evrybody else was being randomly lifted, put upside down, because she simply didnt care about anyone or anything besides Xavier. Anything could go in any direction because she had no control over her telekinesis.

As for the water in the end, i think its the same case. She wanted to destroy the threat (cure darts and guns). But her rage goes to a point that she starts destroying everything, and then starts losing control again. The water then lifts, because she just cant focus enough. Random objects start to fly, even her start to fly, until she starts concentrating to kill Wolverine physically (because if she chose to kill him in mind it would be way easier). But his body is way stronger than the Professor's, and i took as jean was also holding the Phoenix down, thats why he gets to reach her.

 

[Cosmic Mind]

flavio that is perfect!!! thats a good explanation of her powers...but there's something else that came in my mind: prof. says that her split personality is Phoenix, but he didn't explain more... I tried to get to the bottom of this and I think that the Phoenix is actually her powers, "power incarnated". Is her power plus the trauma of watching her best friend Annie Richardson die in car accident, this memories merge with her power because of her sense of guilt for feeling that she could have prevent her her death, this situation make her decide that she won't let anyone die, EVEN IF THAT MEANS SURPASSING DEATH........ as a result, this make her unstable and obsesive, looking for an explanation for this, the answer: The Phoenix. so that became her life, with no way of socialazing with other people because of this, until Xavier came. He feels his inestability, so he blocks her powers but not only that, he even blocks those thoughts of guilt, trauma, and obsession.

First part of my explanation.....

 

[Cosmic Mind]

here goes the second....

once Xavier blocks this, her powers(that comes from her subsconcious) and her memories(those of trauma and obsseion) merge, taking a life of its own: The Phoenix.......of course that is the good one........after this Jean became normal once again....but each time that the Phoenix try to emerge, the Phoenix start to feels emotions that hasn't feel before....so it gets corrupted, and that's how it became the Dark Phoenix.....

You can give more ideas and go more in deph with this if you want to....

 

[PhoenixFire]

Xavier's description of the Phoenix from TLS makes it sound like Jean's id: "all desire and exultation" or whatever his wording was. Given the actual naming convention, the processes associated with the id, and the fact that at least in the novelization Jean's powers still emerge with her telepathically following a friend into a death...

It seems to me that "The Phoenix" is Jean's id, at the most basic level her desire to live. Her baser instincts of hunger, lust, the embodiment of the fight or flight and pleasure principles. Xavier, in a fit of goody-two-shoes stupidity, then chose to confine these impulses away from Jean rather than reintegrate them as he should of, resulting in the neutered, goody-two-shoes Jean and a psychotic, compulsively destructive force that seeks only its own freedom and satiation.

Of course the script isn't nearly cerebral to bear this level of analysis and instead the film presents us with crazy, powerful, mute beeyotch.

 

[phantom47]

Yeah i think the water effect had some more work to be done on them and when the dome would happen we would have seen the inside light up with flames and a pheonix would emerge and that should have been the final battle

 

[Phoenix342]

everyone should read the novel it is awesome and explains alot about her powers and why stuff happened the way it did and it also has ALOT of cool character development!!

 

[Drago]

As for the Alkali Lake/floating rocks thing, I think it was to show that her unconscious was active- the only way she could have survived the end of X2 was if she acted instinctively (her unconscious) to survive. Since Xavier says that "something woke her", I'm guessing that her unconscious was keeping her there protected but not awake, and Cyclops' blast was enough to make her conscious again. Sounds simple enough, and if you excuse the whole "mutation" part of it it's a realistic explanation.

As for the water-wall thing, apart from it being an excuse for CG I think that it was just to isolate what/who she could on the island so that she could destroy it.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Xavier's description of the Phoenix from TLS makes it sound like Jean's id: "all desire and exultation" or whatever his wording was. Given the actual naming convention, the processes associated with the id, and the fact that at least in the novelization Jean's powers still emerge with her telepathically following a friend into a death...

It seems to me that "The Phoenix" is Jean's id, at the most basic level her desire to live. Her baser instincts of hunger, lust, the embodiment of the fight or flight and pleasure principles. Xavier, in a fit of goody-two-shoes stupidity, then chose to confine these impulses away from Jean rather than reintegrate them as he should of, resulting in the neutered, goody-two-shoes Jean and a psychotic, compulsively destructive force that seeks only its own freedom and satiation.

Of course the script isn't nearly cerebral to bear this level of analysis and instead the film presents us with crazy, powerful, mute beeyotch.

Something about how well-worded that was and then - BAM - the last sentence. Funny

 

[flavio_lebeau]

All of us have a "Phoenix" inside...they could just say Xavier "enpowered or enhanced" her superego because since her powers come from subconscious, blocking her id through the superego would make her less powerful and "more calm". Then the Phoenix creature could emerge as a result of the enhanced superego...full of power and instinct and all that...

 

[My Red Sight]

I thought it was just because she couldn't control her powers. Isn't the whole phoenix plot line in the film about control of her powers. At alcatraz, it wasn't like she was focusing her powers on anything specific - everything around her was effected by TK, and the water was near. She couldn't help it. I thought that was an awe inspiring moment.