Question for Atheists

[S_H_F_4839]

That doesn't make any sense at all.

If we don't think there is a God, then all the accountability rests on us.

but how can we hold ourselves accountable, that is what doesn't make sense to me, because in our eyes our own beliefs are right and everyone else is wrong which is why this is such a highly debated issue in my opinion.

I honestly believe we as a people are incapable of holding ourselves accountable. I mean its like putting a guy on trial for murder but when it comes time to end the case letting the guy walk up put on a judges robe sit there say not guilty, court is dismissed.

And our Judicial system is far from fair, I have served on a Jury, and the jury I served on was the most biased and ignornant group of people I have ever met. People sympathize with those that share there cause or have similairities to them.

I will back out of this thread now and let it get back to its purpose. Anyone that wants to discuss this further can send me a PM.

 

[Jerry!]

Well I believe in common sense, and that takes care of the problem for me as far as accountability goes most of the time.

The way I see religion (this means every religion) is like an activity that people do, whether they know it or not, that makes them feel good, gives them hope, something that completes them. It becomes a part of their life. Its just, I don't think everyone needs something like that. I'm one of those people.

 

[Dark Carnage]

but how can we hold ourselves accountable, that is what doesn't make sense to me, because in our eyes our own beliefs are right and everyone else is wrong which is why this is such a highly debated issue in my opinion.

Huh?

How does accountability and thinking you're right go together?

Here is what I'm talking about. Every problem I cause for myself and everyone else is down to me. If it was within my power for me to avoid causing that problem, then I am accountable for it. If I fall into a deep depression and eat myself into morbid obesity, I'm accountable for doing it and sorting it out. I just don't say myself "Hey, it's God testing me. He's the reason this has happened to me. But don't worry, I'll persevere and pass his test."

To me, believing in God is passing the buck. It's laying all the accountability on him and his omnipotence. "Even though I drive my SUV to the local store which is a 5 minute walk, global warming isn't something I'm adding too, it's simply God showing the world he's not pleased with the lack of prayers being said."

I know that's a bit over the top (though it's definitely a possibility someone out there thinks that) saying people who don't believe in God don't hold themselves accountable is an oxymoron. Believers can't be held accountable for anything bad or even good they don't want to be. You see it all the time in athletes. They win something and thank God, taking away accountability from themselves as thought God loved them more than all the other people in the race.

I don't want to continue this into a long drawn out discussion that eventually turns circular, but all I'm saying is that at times when I hold myself accountable for something, you might say it was God, removing all accountability from yourself.

 

[Dark Carnage]

I honestly believe we as a people are incapable of holding ourselves accountable. I mean its like putting a guy on trial for murder but when it comes time to end the case letting the guy walk up put on a judges robe sit there say not guilty, court is dismissed.

Ok, but seeing as nobody what sitting in the judges chair to begin with, anyone who says they are there on God's behalf and will tell them his judgement could just be full of ****. How do you prove God's accountability and judgement?

Yeah, it's over. I don't want this any more I won't be sending you a PM.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

I believe you.

And I think all the atheists have it backwards, christians embrace their faith out of love, while atheists shy away from it out of fear, they want to be able to live their life how they want with no accountablity, and they don't want to listen. They throw up the scientific reasoning and evidence umbrella to make sure they are not actually getting the message. I find it harder and harder everyday to stop caring for these people.

"if you don't love me I'll send you to the fire for eternity"
you tell me who does what out of fear.
when something in my life is wrong, it's up to ME to fix it and find the causes.
you tell me who DOESN'T want "accountability"

 

[SentinelMind]

^do you think its possible to believe in a god without the whole heaven/hell concept or without fear?

 

[SentinelMind]

I kind of understand where S_H_F is coming from. I'm not a Christian and I'm not an atheist, but I think a lot of atheists do go around acting very arrogantly and could use more humility in their lives. It's not really just about belief in a God, its their general lifestyle and ways they treat other people. I know a lot of atheists tend to overestimate their good nature and confuse their own ambitions with morality. It is often quite easy for people to get frustrated in the heat of the moment and justify treating others badly and as objects. I think what S_H_F is getting at is there is a concept of morality that is independent of humanity and you have to work at getting it. Just relying on yourself can be dangerous because everyone has dangerous self-observed impulses and self-defense mechanisms to protect themselves from moral judgement.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

^do you think its possible to believe in a god without the whole heaven/hell concept or without fear?

WHAT?!

Of course it is.

Right here.

To my satisfaction, I "know" there is a God. (Though intellectually I KNOW that you can't really "know" that and I'd never be arrogant enough to tell someone else that they need to share my beliefs or be doomed, as Christians do.)
And Heaven/Hell is bologna, and while fear is a natural must, given our helpless and clueless position, it is not the source of my belief.

 

[SentinelMind]

WHAT?!

Of course it is.

Right here.

To my satisfaction, I "know" there is a God. (Though intellectually I KNOW that you can't really "know" that and I'd never be arrogant enough to tell someone else that they need to share my believes or be doomed, as Christians do.)
And Heaven/Hell is bologna, and while fear is a natural must, given our helpless and clueless position, it is not the source of my belief.

I agree with you and share your ...uh religious position. I was just wondering asking Mr. Sparkle and questioning the argument used that people who live in God do so purely out of fear.

 

[Avangarde]

I'm more interested what the christians will say when the aliens come back and tell us baby jesus was a grey

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I agree with you and share your ...uh religious position. I was just wondering asking Mr. Sparkle and questioning the argument used that people who live in God do so purely out of fear.

In these threads you have to make the distinction between "a God" and "The Christian God".
No doubt the Christian God is all about fear. You're supposed to fear him.
He talks often about how you'd better shape up or face his wrath.
And the whole system is, Do this, this and this or you are ****ed.
You don't want to be ****ed do you?!
NOOOooo!

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

HAhaha, I said "Share my believes." lol

 

[Moviefan2k4]

I believe you, and I think all the atheists have it backwards. Christians embrace their faith out of love, while atheists shy away from it out of fear; they want to be able to live their life how they want with no accountablity, and they don't want to listen. They throw up the "scientific-reasoning-and-evidence" umbrella to make sure they are not actually getting the message. I find it harder and harder everyday to stop caring for these people.

Thanks; I really appreciate your words of support. My faith in Jesus is tried and tested every day, and what gets to me is how any non-Christians can honestly form the opinion of "once you get saved, it's supposed to be all roses"...think again. Accepting Christ by faith goes against everything the natural mind wants to do. As fallen human beings, we want to do everything our own way, and just eliminate all the boundaries. Joy and peace are the results of salvation, but sometimes you have to experience severe pain, before you can understand God's love and grace. Personally, now that I've expereinced life without God, I know I never want to turn my back on Him again.

But how can we hold ourselves accountable? That is what doesn't make sense to me. In our eyes our own beliefs are right and everyone else is wrong, which is why this is such a highly debated issue in my opinion.

I honestly believe we as a people are incapable of holding ourselves accountable. I mean its like putting a guy on trial for murder, but when it comes time to end the case letting the guy walk up, put on a judges robe, sit there say not guilty, court is dismissed.

And our judicial system is far from fair, I have served on a jury, and the jury I served on was the most biased and ignornant group of people I have ever met. People sympathize with those that share there cause or have similairities to them.

Many fine points; I definitely agree on these.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Personally, now that I've expereinced life without God, I know I never want to turn my back on Him again.

It's weird. I'm the opposite way. I had a life with "God" for most of my life and now that I'm free of it I'd never return to it.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

It's weird. I'm the opposite way. I had a life with "God" for most of my life and now that I'm free of it I'd never return to it.

You weren't around God; you were oppressed by religion. There is a genuine difference. Religion says, "Do this or burn! You're an evil, no-good scumbag who's gonna rot in hell for eternity!" God says, "Behold, I stand at the door of your heart and knock. If the door is opened, I will enter. I will never leave you, nor forsake you."

 

[Mike_D202]

I think there is an after-life, just not what we all think it is (heaven/hell/purgatory).

 

[Superhobo]

^do you think its possible to believe in a god without the whole heaven/hell concept or without fear?

Interestingly enough, in the Christian bible, while heaven is mentioned quite often, hell is very sparingly talked about. All you really get is 'damnation' and things of that nature. But, the actual place is never referred to

Ergo, hell is an invention of the church, used for fear.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

You weren't around God; you were oppressed by religion. There is a genuine difference. Religion says, "Do this or burn! You're an evil, no-good scumbag who's gonna rot in hell for eternity!" God says, "Behold, I stand at the door of your heart and knock. If the door is opened, I will enter. I will never leave you, nor forsake you."

Wrong.
I was happily into it. As I've said, there was a period where I was young and just believing it because it's how I was raised, but in my early 20's I was so honestly into it and such a gung-ho 100% believer that I moved out of my fiance's apartment to "avoid the appearance of evil" and told her we couldn't have sex anymore until we got married.
I even stopped drawing because of the commandment against creating an image of anything on the Earth, in the Sky or in the Sea.

Hardest thing I'd ever done but I felt I had to for my relationship with Jesus and I "knew" he would give me the strength and I prayed all the time.
Jesus, who, turns out, doesn't exist.

Jesus robbed me of a lot of good sex via my own fear and gulibility.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

For me to believe, I'd have to see him standing in front of me at the DMV line. He'd then have to wink at me and magically reappear at the front of the line. As he leaves with his brand new liscense, he'd look over at me, point his finger at me like a gun, then he'd have to do the Fonz and ride off into the sunset on a blue unicorn that's gay so Jesus spites it with AIDS. Then, and only then, would I believe it. Until that day with those EXACT circumstances, forget it!

P.S. Please pray for me.

 

[AhabTheArab]

Accepting Christ by faith goes against everything the natural mind wants to do.

says the sheep....

 

[Moviefan2k4]

Jesus robbed me of a lot of good sex via my own fear and gulibility.

You didn't have to go that way; besides, if you loved her and wanted to be with her, then just make sure she felt the same way, and then head for the nearest courthouse to marry her.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

You didn't have to go that way; besides, if you loved her and wanted to be with her, then just make sure she felt the same way, and then head for the nearest courthouse to marry her.

Hahahaha.

uh

1) Yes I did. The Bible very clearly states that what I was doing was "fornication" and Jesus says if you love me you'll obey your commandments. Also, he forgives BUT says "Go forth and sin no more."

You can't say you love Jesus, wake up, say you're sorry for fornicating, go to work, then return home to your den of fornication and fornicate.
I....hope I misunderstood you, 'cause if I didn't, I have no idea what you meant by that.

2) I believed in Christianity. I tried to explain to her at length how true it was and she would not accept it. You can be a Christian who is married to a non-Christian before the fact, but you can't be a Christian and marry a non-Christian.

And if your girlfriend is not a Christian, and you tell her, "Um, we can't have sex anymore unless you want to get married! BUT, we...can't get married unless you become a Christian."
And she doesn't believe in Christianity and sees no reason to stop having sex.........LOL, I'll just say, you're obviously not grasping the realities of the situation if you think there was some easy solution.

You can't make sure someone feels the same way if THEY DON'T.

 

[Angry Sentinel]

For me to believe, I'd have to see him standing in front of me at the DMV line. He'd then have to wink at me and magically reappear at the front of the line. As he leaves with his brand new liscense, he'd look over at me, point his finger at me like a gun, then he'd have to do the Fonz and ride off into the sunset on a blue unicorn that's gay so Jesus spites it with AIDS. Then, and only then, would I believe it. Until that day with those EXACT circumstances, forget it!

P.S. Please pray for me.

When you said "he" , you do mean God right? Because I could not tell since that clearly describes something David Blaine would do.

 

[Stikmann]

Thanks; I really appreciate your words of support. My faith in Jesus is tried and tested every day, and what gets to me is how any non-Christians can honestly form the opinion of "once you get saved, it's supposed to be all roses"...think again. Accepting Christ by faith goes against everything the natural mind wants to do. As fallen human beings, we want to do everything our own way, and just eliminate all the boundaries. Joy and peace are the results of salvation, but sometimes you have to experience severe pain, before you can understand God's love and grace. Personally, now that I've expereinced life without God, I know I never want to turn my back on Him again.

Many fine points; I definitely agree on these.

See…what I don’t get is…What kind of a person are you? I mean, you “turned from God” and suddenly you became what? A monster? Why is it you need some sort of entity or “thing” hanging over yourself to be a good person? I personally am the best person I can be. I don’t steal, I don’t get drunk and act like an idiot…I give up my seat for women or the elderly and I am respectful to everyone I encounter. This is how I was raised (by my Atheist father) and it’s the way I now raise my daughter. I don’t need the fear of religion or the so called love of a higher being to act as such. Being a decent person has its own rewards. Religion is not a part of my life in any way. I don’t need it to guide my actions. I take responsibility for what I do and who I am. By what you’re saying, all humans are evil and we need religion to be on the straight and narrow. I don’t agree with that at all. It sounds like the typical jargon about how we humans aren’t really responsible for our actions or behavior. So really, what became of you when you “turned your back”?

 

[Moviefan2k4]

Hahahaha.

uh

1) Yes I did. The Bible very clearly states that what I was doing was "fornication" and Jesus says if you love me you'll obey your commandments. Also, he forgives BUT says "Go forth and sin no more."

You can't say you love Jesus, wake up, say you're sorry for fornicating, go to work, then return home to your den of fornication and fornicate.
I....hope I misunderstood you, 'cause if I didn't, I have no idea what you meant by that.

2) I believed in Christianity. I tried to explain to her at length how true it was and she would not accept it. You can be a Christian who is married to a non-Christian before the fact, but you can't be a Christian and marry a non-Christian.

And if your girlfriend is not a Christian, and you tell her, "Um, we can't have sex anymore unless you want to get married! BUT, we...can't get married unless you become a Christian."
And she doesn't believe in Christianity and sees no reason to stop having sex.........LOL, I'll just say, you're obviously not grasping the realities of the situation if you think there was some easy solution.

You can't make sure someone feels the same way if THEY DON'T.

You didn't list all those specifics, so I answered with was I was initially told. Taking all that into consideration, it sounds like it was her loss, not yours.