racism in hollywood - and how far it has come.

do you see wat i'm saying?

  • yes i see wat you're saying

  • i don't agree with you, but i understand you.

  • no and this thread is bollocks.


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When starting a sentence usually the first letter is capitalized.
this is a forum. i'm not here to write passages made for doctors to read, analyze and grade.
Having absolutely nothing to contribute to the essay itself, I do find it sad that having an essay written at a college level can have such basic mistakes as poor grammar and formatting yet still get a B+.

Then again it depends on the college I guess. Mine would've Failed me with a capital F for it.:oldrazz:
this isn't my actual paper. i just went through some of the main points that i thought would make for a discussion
I don't know many college professors who would even bother reading it.

oh my god, wat is with all the insults here :cmad:

the class itself was about RACE, the modern color line. here's the description
Code:
An exploration of the significance of race in 19th- and early 20th-century America. Topics include forms of political organization and collective struggle; the social and psychic consequences of racist subjection; the relationship among race, racism, and culture; and the cultural politics of race and gender. This course is offered as both AFS 277 and HIS 277.
and you don't think there may have been discussions in those classrooms where some students may have been unintentionally insulting others?
 
Well if you want someone to read something it would probably be best to make it look a tad more professional.
 
Well if you want someone to read something it would probably be best to make it look a tad more professional.

forums are not the place I look for to be professional. it's where i'd like to take the luxury of typing and replying informally. just like how sometimes people respond with just gifs or memes.

why does that even merit insults. if even one person thought i had a point to make then it must mean that i can get through to another
 
The thing about non-racial casting in Hollywood is that the default for any character whose race is never specified is still "white." When studios put out casting calls, unspecified characters still call for white actors. The casting people have to ask for non-white actors, or a non-white actor's agent has to take a chance and send them to an audition for a white character, or a director/producer has to have a specific non-white actor in mind for the role.

Will Smith doesn't just stroll into auditions and get leading roles that might have gone to any white actor. People ask for Will Smith. His early acting roles were for characters specified as black. His big break as a leading man happened in Independence Day, but the director wanted Smith specifically, and he had to fight the studio for it (because everyone else involved didn't think a black leading man would work).

That "white default" mindset exists in the minds of regular people as well. I remember when The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy was made into a movie. Mos Def was cast as Ford Prefect, one of the main characters. Now, Mos Def is a good actor. That wasn't a problem. Mos Def is an American in an adaptation of a British novel, but that wasn't a problem either (nobody said a word about Zooey Deschanel, and her character is actually said to be from England). But there were a lot of people complaining that the people making the movie had "changed" Ford. They "made him black." Author Douglas Adams wasn't big on describing his characters' appearances unless there was something unusual about them (eg. Zaphod has 2 heads and 3 arms), and he managed to write 5 books in that series without ever describing Ford's skin color. Yet somehow, every fan got it into their heads that Ford (an alien from another planet who simply passed for human) was white.
 
If you want to be taken seriously in a discussion, even on a lowly message board such as this, then maybe you should present yourself in a serious manner, instead of getting insulted we're questioning if you really are a college student with the grammatical level of an elementary student.

That shouldn't be hard to understand. You presented something you think is important yet treat it like this and expect a serious discussion?
 
TV has seen a rapid rise in the number of minority women over the past few years. Lucy Liu is front and center in Elementary, Sarah Shahi (who is Iranian American) is in Person of Interest, Mindy Kaling on her own show, as stupid as that show is. Sophia Vergara has a significant role on Modern Family.

TV has also seen a rise in the number of African American women in the lead. Kerry Washington and Nicole Beharie we've seen. Halle Berry and Octavia Spencer are coming soon and it was just announced yesterday that Zoe Saldana will be the miniseries remake of Rosemary's Baby for NBC. There's also Angela Bassett in American Horror Story.


A big part of that is not neccessarily that society has become more enlightened, but that those women and the characters they play can also serve as love interests for (mainly) white males. Both the white male characters in the show and, by proxy, the ones in the audience and in the production offices.
 
If you want to be taken seriously in a discussion, even on a lowly message board such as this, then maybe you should present yourself in a serious manner, instead of getting insulted we're questioning if you really are a college student with the grammatical level of an elementary student.

That shouldn't be hard to understand. You presented something you think is important yet treat it like this and expect a serious discussion?

dude I'm not typing out an actual essay on a forum. I was being informal with my spelling to give off a friendly and relaxed demeanor. I do not see how you, if you actually do want to read my op, can't just look past it and see my points. it's as if you say my op has no merit because of its spelling and it's not even ike my entire op has had all mixed spelling of sorts.
 
No one said write out an entire essay (although in this day and age I'm surprised it's not already saved as a .txt or .doc format making copy/paste a simple matter).

What I am saying is you wanted to be taken seriously in this discussion yet you wouldn't take the most basic and simple grammatical rules to heart to discuss it.

Also it makes it harder to read it. We have gramatical rules for a reason even if some of them are outdated or archaic. A friendly and relaxed demeanor? That doesn't mean forgo the most basic rules of grammar. It feels lazy, and I don't mean that as belittling the essay excerpts (which make valid points and some that are academically debatable) but your presentation is lacking.

That you can both dismiss this as a causal place and at the same time want to discuss something serious is contradicting yourself.

I will respond to the actual essay itself at some point. I just don't feel like wading through it right now to discuss what I agree or disagree with in it. I'm not against the content, it's the formatting that is the problem.
 
I could have sworn this thread was about racism in Hollywood not "Grade my Essay"
 
Maybe I can put it context for you, Tanin. I'll write about something important then use ALL CAPS TO DISCUSS IT AND SEE HOW WELL EVERYONE ENJOYS READING THIS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK SO FAR? DO YOU FIND THIS EASIER AND MORE RELAXED TO READ OR DOES IT ANNOY THE **** OUT OF YOU YET?
 
Doesn't annoy me at all. Why should it?
 
I see what your saying, and I don't really mind if the actors that were cast in these roles simulated the character they were assigned to. I think Asians have a long way to go in Hollywood, as I was really disappointed in the Dragon Ball and Airwalker adaption. Dragon balls had so much potential to be a mix of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and the first Mortal Kombat film back in 1995.
 
I see what your saying, and I don't really mind if the actors that were cast in these roles simulated the character they were assigned to. I think Asians have a long way to go in Hollywood, as I was really disappointed in the Dragon Ball and Airwalker adaption. Dragon balls had so much potential to be a mix of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and the first Mortal Kombat film back in 1995.

Asian men have a long way to go in Hollywood. Their mere presence is offensive to a broad spectrum of people, as has been my experience.
 
Dragon Ball had the triple pentagle distinction of being foreign, an animated adaptation and about Asians. Also a children's cartoon involving aliens and magic. It was doomed before it started. Taking a franchise from another culture is hard on its own. Do you keep faith to the original culture and possibly alienate the one you're making it for (in this case keep all of the Japanese traits and nuances, including an all asian cast) or do you change the ethnicity of the characters and culture to adapt it to the one you're offering it to (Americanize it so that it's relatable to Americans)?

Either way you do it, you'll piss off half the audience. The fans will love it for being "authentic" but the rest of the audience will hate it for not understanding it and ignore it. If you alter it then the fans will hate it for adapting it to an American audience and you risk the American audience "not getting it" because what made it good is literally lost in the translation. Or in the case of Hollywood, their incapability to adapt anything properly except by accident.

Look at the mess that was/is/will be Akira. Fan are very adamant it take place in Tokyo, with Japanese actors, and probably in Japanese. But they don't get that if they do it like that, American and European audiences won't be able to relate so readily to it.

Airbender was entirely on Shamalayan. He went with the usual Hollywood line of "best actors" for the job then promptly dropped the ball on every concievable aspect of it. I'm sure you could find good Asian actors for the roles but he didn't try hard enough. Even if he had though I suspect it still would've bombed. And you can bet there would be claims the actors being Asian "hurt" the movie.

And as promised, my response to the actual topic itself.

Hollywood is a very slow, cumbersome business that literally repeats itself endlessly. That's why we get so many sequels, franchises, reboots, remakes, ripoffs, spinoffs, etc. Very rarely will anyone in Hollywood take a chance on something new.

A good related example is female heroes. We've had Ripley since the late 70's and Katniss now and all inbetween that have been a scattering of female action stars. There are some notable exceptions but by and large Hollywood has stubbornly held that women can't hold an action movie, even in the face of oh yes they can.

More often the ones who take risks are on the fringes, independents, the upstarts or the big companies who have the money and a smaller subsidary to take a risk on something that won't directly affect them, then clone it endlessly if it's successful or write it off if it fails.

Some of the examples cited are poor examples. Spider-Man is actually Indian in the Indian version of the comic. It's tailored to that culture so there are changes to him besides merely being "brown." At his core, he could be black or asian or anything else but he's iconically white in North America and Europe. It's a byproduct of when superheroes were almost exclusively white, because predominately the comics were bought (or percieved as bought) by white children. Boys imparticular so they catered to that demographic.

It takes time and it takes effort to create a new superhero and I think rather than potentially alienating existing fans by radically altering the face of an iconic hero to be another ethnicity (and failing to adapt him/her on top of that to the big screen), it's better to create a new hero from scratch who is that ethnicity.

To make Spider-Man Korean for example, is to pander to making a Korean superhero for the sake of making a Korean superhero. It does nothing to make him different. There's nothing to be gained from it but plenty to lose, in the eyes of Marvel and Sony.

There is nothing obviously white about him on the surface but it would still be a major change to an iconic hero who has never been seen as anything else. And it's "appropriating" a hero for the sake of it.

That may sound racist, maybe it is in some interpetations but you can't deny it wouldn't mar the movie before production began. Whether you or I or anyone here says it wouldn't bother them (I'm being generous in saying no one here would be bothered, given the Johnny Storm can't be black debacle) it doesn't mean the majority of the audience wouldn't question it, and rightly so.

Why make him different? What does it do for the character? To justify changing him to Korean for the audience, you'd have to do something that makes him Korean, instead of just a white guy with a Korean face.

This applies to any character who has a firmly grounded background. Heimdall is interesting as he's a Asgardian "god" and yet he's not like the rest. He stands out like a sore thumb to the rest of a largely white cast. I have no problem with him being black, but only him and no others of note makes it all the more obvious he was "stunt casted" which is only tangentally progressive.

Hollywood should still be praised for diversifying. It's still a long ways off and has a long ways to go but like so many other things, it takes time, effort and a lot of failure before there is success.

Minority characters (and despite the claim it's offensive, it's definitely a step up from "colored" which I think the OP has lost the inference to) are increasing in prominence. Minority also meaning gay/lesbian and those of other ethnicities or religious beliefs.

I wouldn't expect a major shift in Hollywood but I can still see the shift happening and it's moving faster than it ever has before.

This also all ties into the audience. Movies are made to cater to the audience and the audience is still largely seen as white males for comic and superhero movies. It may be wildly inaccurate (I honesly have no idea what the true demographic is) but the perception is that it's still mostly white male so that's what we'll largely see until it becomes more accepted to see other ethnicities.

Which it is. It just isn't happening over night or perhaps in large strides for the next decade but it is still happening and it will get there.
 
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Asian men have a long way to go in Hollywood. Their mere presence is offensive to a broad spectrum of people, as has been my experience.

Hollywood loves Asian women (I could say a few things about the disturbing fetishization of Asian actresses, but that's for another day), but I could probably count every living notable male Asian-American actor with one hand. I could probably go into the double digits if we start counting racially mixed Asian-American actors (Tommy Chong, Fred Armisen, Dean Cain), but nobody ever counts them.
 
Some Asians won't even count Keanu Reeves among their numbers... although that might be more that he's Keanu than anything else. :o
 
Keanu doesn't really strongly identify himself as Asian, which I can understand as it would greatly limit the roles he would get.

Sometimes I wonder when producers say "audience can't relate" they really mean "audiences hate your slanty eyes and pie face."
 
A big part of that is not neccessarily that society has become more enlightened, but that those women and the characters they play can also serve as love interests for (mainly) white males. Both the white male characters in the show and, by proxy, the ones in the audience and in the production offices.

This.

I've mentioned this before, but Hollywood's definition of interracial romance is mainly "White Man with Non White Woman"

Asian men have a long way to go in Hollywood. Their mere presence is offensive to a broad spectrum of people, as has been my experience.

Can you elaborate on this?
 
This.

I've mentioned this before, but Hollywood's definition of interracial romance is mainly "White Man with Non White Woman"


Of course, but how else will society learn that a relationship with a white male is the ideal that everyone should subscribe to.


Can you elaborate on this?

Speaking from my own experience, I can't say that Asian men have it worse than any other ethnic group, cause we don't. But we are distinct in that we are despised by the broadest spectrum of people possible. Liberal progressives dislike Asian men. Anti-racism activists dislike Asian men. Unions dislike Asian men. A lot of Asian women I know go out of their way to tell people how much Asian men suck at everything. So why would you create an entertainment property that alienates such a broad spectrum of people?
 
^ What would you say causes that dislike?
 
forums are not the place I look for to be professional. it's where i'd like to take the luxury of typing and replying informally. just like how sometimes people respond with just gifs or memes.

why does that even merit insults. if even one person thought i had a point to make then it must mean that i can get through to another

Capitalization and periods are your friend.
 
if using colored is supposed to be offensive then so is minority and here's why.

by saying that anyone not white is a minority, basically means that white people = majority, by being the opposite of minority. in that same literal manner, any color that isn't white, which is supposed to be the absence of any kind of pigment, is a color.

White people are the majority, though. That's why everyone else is a minority.

:o
 
White people are the majority, though. That's why everyone else is a minority.

:o

i know. white is to majority as colored is to minority. but in my head, I don't find it offensive and it almost never has been for me, ever.
 
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