racism in hollywood - and how far it has come.

[Manic]

You know was would appease quite a few of us in this thread, since we're talking about racial representation & leading roles in Holywood?

A Daughters of the Dragon movie. Get on that, Marvel.

 

[childeroland]

so?

I was responding to Mondragon's statement about Latino characters being underrepresented. Sony wants to build a shared universe, doesn't have too many characters, and Miles Morales might be a way to do that. But if Sony won't even consider it, is it any wonder they're down to considering an Aunt May film.

 

[Manic]

If they have the rights, Sony could make a movie about Anya Corazon/Spider-Girl.

 

[The Guard]

The whole "racebending for the sake of racebending" complaint I do not understand.

Might it not often be less that they just "wanted to make a character a different race" from the getgo and more that they got the actor or actress they felt best fit the part and gave the film its best chance of success (financial reasons, popularity reasons, etc?).

If, for instance, Denzel Washington ended up playing The Punisher, I seriously doubt it would be because filmmakers set out to make The Punisher a black character "just because". But more that they wanted to work with Denzel Washington specifically.

 

[The Question]

The whole "racebending for the sake of racebending" complaint I do not understand.

Might it not often be less that they just "wanted to make a character a different race" from the getgo and more that they got the actor or actress they felt best fit the part and gave the film its best chance of success (financial reasons, popularity reasons, etc?).

If, for instance, Denzel Washington ended up playing The Punisher, I seriously doubt it would be because filmmakers set out to make The Punisher a black character "just because". But more that they wanted to work with Denzel Washington specifically.

And even if they just wanted to change the character's race, why does anyone care? What harm does that do?

 

[DarkSovereignty]

And even if they just wanted to change the character's race, why does anyone care? What harm does that do?

Becauae change is new and it's different and I don't like it

 

[SuperT]

Because then they don't look like the exact character from the comics!!!! WHAAAAAAAAA!!

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I think Denzel Washington would be the best version of Two-Face. He perfectly plays heroes and anti-heroes.

 

[cronosred]

Because then they don't look like the exact character from the comics!!!! WHAAAAAAAAA!!

Or because their culture would be changed!!! WHAAAAAAA!!

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Are... are people really trying to justify a lack of diversity in TV/film by population ratios?

thank you.

While I still think blacks are under represented in leads, population wise I agree - Latino and Asians are the ones who are most under represented.

Just looking at upcoming Marvel & DC Superhero slate as an eg, there are at least some strong black lead Superhero projects in the works - Black Panther, Cyborg, Luke Cage, Dead Shot, and several strong secondaries already entrenched in the movie franchise Fury, Storm, Falcon, Iron Patriot, there was Blade trilogy too.
While by comparison there are absolutely NO strong Latino or Asian movie leads in the works.
Not even any secondary characters either developed or upcoming.
That is abysmal.
Other than Marvel's Shang-Chi (nope their martial arts guy will be Danny Rand) they haven't even developed any strong adult lead Asian or Latino characters in the comics themselves, to actually turn into movies.

So yeah by comparison Latino and Asians are really the most underrepresented.

this is the main point I was trying to make in my OP. it is a shame nobody could actually see that. and those who could wouldn't take it seriously.

And even if they just wanted to change the character's race, why does anyone care? What harm does that do?

so what if we flipped the scenario and had a character from literature that was written to be black, made white on screen. how would everyone feel about making lucious fox white?

I think Denzel Washington would be the best version of Two-Face. He perfectly plays heroes and anti-heroes.

I think Aaron Eckhart's done the finest and best job we may ever see.

 

[chaseter]

I don't think Hollywood is racist by playing demographics. That's like saying Tyler Perry is racist. That extends then to sexism, ageism, homophobia, etc. why not make The Notebook about two guys? It's not because Hollywood is homophobic.

Changing characters for the sake of change is a dumb argument. There's absolutely no point to it. It's lame backwards fanboys screaming over a black Human Torch but civil rights leaders would be in an uproar if they made T'challa a white man raised by the Wakandans? There's no point.

 

[Manic]

I think we're focusing on the symptoms rather than the disease, here. Changing characters from established visual media (such as comic books or previous films in a series) into a different race is a means to correct a much larger problem: Hollywood has racist casting policies.


If you don't specify the race of your characters in your script (I'm talking about original stories, not adaptations), directors/producers will usually send out casting calls for white actors unless the director/producer has a specific actor in mind. This means that the role won't necessarily go to the best actor for the job, but to the best white actor for the job. They're excluding tons of actors from different racial backgrounds, and this is giving the shaft to tons of non-white actors. They might not be doing this kind of thing consciously; Hollywood used to be pretty damn openly racist decades ago, and certain practices from those days persist out of pure habit.

However, Hollywood does do certain racist things consciously. They're very wary to cast non-white actors in main roles because they think general (mostly white) audiences won't watch movies unless most/all of the actors are white. Once a non-white actor achieves a certain level of popularity from playing supporting roles, Hollywood might MIGHT take a chance by giving them a starring role in something. If that movie does well, studios simply latch onto that one specific actor to add a sense of diversity to their casts. And they don't do this with too many actors, which is why the same non-white actors tend to appear in everything (eg. The Rock, Denzel Washington, Will Smith).

Hollywood is also deathly afraid of portraying interacial couples on film. You might occasionally get instances of two different types of non-white characters getting together, or a white male character will take a shine to a female non-white character, but that's about it.


And this lack of diversity is heartbreaking if you're one of the under-represented groups in movies. Imagine being Polynesian, and the only nameable actors who look like you are Jason Momoa and one half of Dwayne Johnson. And then you go on the internet or overhear conversations from moviegoers, and all they're talking about is how there aren't that many of you in the country in the first place, so why bother casting more actors who look like you?

Imagine being a Native American actress who got turned down for the role of Tiger Lilly because they wanted to cast a white actress to play the role of a Native American. Or imagine being a black or brown actor who never had a chance to get a major role in the Exodus movie because Ridley Scott only wanted to cast white actors to play characters who, in those ancient times, would've all been black and brown-- and then to have Scott publicly say that he couldn't cast brown people in the movie because no studio would've funded his film unless he had more white actors in it.

Imagine making a fantasy movie that takes place in feudal Japan during their isolationist era, basing the movie off of an old folk tale with some basis in real history, and then having the studio tell you to cast the ostensibly white (though admittedly multi-racial, but still not Japanese) Keanu Reeves as a main character.


Hollywood has always and continues to screw over non-white people. That's the problem, and it always has been.

 

[chaseter]

I wonder what it's like in other countries like Japan or India. I'm sure they make all their movie multiculturally diverse.

It's simple economics, not racism. If this country was 90% black then nearly all the movies would have mostly all black casts. That's not racist. No diversity is racism. You aren't going to see an all Polynesian rom com in the US because of statistics, not racism.

 

[Manic]

They're not mutually exclusive concepts, chaseter. They're making economic decisions based on racist practices.

 

[JP]

I wonder what it's like in other countries like Japan or India. I'm sure they make all their movie multiculturally diverse.

It's simple economics, not racism. If this country was 90% black then nearly all the movies would have mostly all black casts. That's not racist. No diversity is racism. You aren't going to see an all Polynesian rom com in the US because of statistics, not racism.

That all sound inherently racist.

 

[E-Man]

This is all I got from the poll.

[YT]su-HUDo7XQ4[/YT]

 

[DeadPresident]

Wait, so are people saying that if Bollywood, Nollywood, Japanese or South American movies aren't ethnically diverse they're also racist, or does it only apply if Hollywood doesn't insist on multicultural casts?

Genuine question.

 

[Victarion]

Spawn is a black superhero with pretty unique powers. Get to it, Todd.

 

[childeroland]

Bollywood does have diverse casting -- it's just that they look the same to us, but they use at least some of the diversity their respective countries has to offer. Same with Nollywood and South America. I don't know about Japan.

 

[DeadPresident]

Bollywood does have diverse casting -- it's just that they look the same to us, but they use the diversity the country has to offer.

Uh...ok. To a degree I'd concur about the diversity, but it's not really multicultural, but it might be slightly ethnically diverse. Mainly, if producers of movies know what their demographic is then doesn't it make sense to cast actors that are more likely to resonate with the majority of the audiences?

Also, in India there's a caste system where skin lightness is usually associated with a higher caste. So no, in terms of Bollywood's casting if you observe it carefully, they're pretty "racist" with who they cast in their main roles.

Same with Nollywood and South America. I don't know about Japan.

Nigerian movies don't really have much diversity, at all. South America, mostly Brazil, you're probably right. The few Japanese/South Korean movies I've seen exclusively have native actors, but that's down to the language I'd assume. If there were people of different ethnicities/races that could speak Korean/Japanese they'd probably cast them more often.

 

[Black Narcissus]

I wanna see it
painted, painted,
painted, painted,
black

 

[Manic]

Wait, so are people saying that if Bollywood, Nollywood, Japanese or South American movies aren't ethnically diverse they're also racist, or does it only apply if Hollywood doesn't insist on multicultural casts?

Genuine question.

It mainly applies to Hollywood because it exists in a much more cosmopolitan country. There's over 50 million Latinos, 38 million black people, and 14 million Asians in the US alone. That's a lot of people noticing they're not featured in movies very often, especially as main characters.

As you're aware, Bollywood has a huge bias against actors with dark skin. It's not without its own faults.

I can't really comment on Nigeria or Japan's film industries because I honestly know next to nothing about them.

 

[terry78]

Basically other countries that aren't more, for lack of a better term, melting pots can afford to not have diversity in their media. Is what it is.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Uh...ok. To a degree I'd concur about the diversity, but it's not really multicultural, but it might be slightly ethnically diverse. Mainly, if producers of movies know what their demographic is then doesn't it make sense to cast actors that are more likely to resonate with the majority of the audiences?

Also, in India there's a caste system where skin lightness is usually associated with a higher caste. So no, in terms of Bollywood's casting if you observe it carefully, they're pretty "racist" with who they cast in their main roles.



Nigerian movies don't really have much diversity, at all. South America, mostly Brazil, you're probably right. The few Japanese/South Korean movies I've seen exclusively have native actors, but that's down to the language I'd assume. If there were people of different ethnicities/races that could speak Korean/Japanese they'd probably cast them more often.

Latin American countries have a problem with "lighter" skinned Latinos as well. How many novelas do you see fronted by darker skinned Latino/as? They usually only play servants or secondary cast.

I'm not sure pointing out other countries bias in how they portray themselves does anything more than show that societies do this for a very ugly reason. Hollywood included.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

I think Denzel Washington would be the best version of Two-Face. He perfectly plays heroes and anti-heroes.

OH MY GOD!!! WHY DID THIS NEVER HAPPEN!?!?! SNYDER GET ON THIS!!!