World Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

[LizardMan07]

The odd thing about the whole "civilians dying" thing in the car chase scene is that it happens a lot in other CBMS, and nobody seems to care all that much?

Did TWS blow up cars with a grenade launcher? It's been a while, I may be wrong

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I do think he comes off like a jerk. Take TASM2. He allows that truck to smash cars left and right, while he sits on the roof and makes fun of him while doing NOTHING to stop the truck. Then, we find out, he is toying around when he KNOWS he is nearly late to his graduation and for Gwen's speech. Sorry, that is showing me he has bad priorities. It seems like he'd rather be Spider-Man than he would see Gwen's biggest moment of her life at the time. Yes, Peter is late to important things ALL the time in the comic, but it isn't for lack of effort for trying to be there. When he needs to be somewhere, he tries not to toy around. He tries to end those battles quickly. Here, he wasn't. In fact, he seemed to making it a point NOT to rush it. Bad portrayel, This is not the only evidence of Garfield Parker acting this way, and I don't like it. It is very NOT Spider-Man to me.

To me, Garfield's Peter is way too much of a jock for me to buy as a nerd. Even if today's nerds are not as awkward as Tobey's Peter, there is no way Garfield's Parker WASN'T a cool kid in school. Peter is not the type of guy who makes out with his girl on stage. That is a jock move. Also, Peter should know enough about science not to need YT to explain how a battery works. Things like this add up to me not buying into this character. I do think there is a balanced portrayel of Parker somewhere between Garfield's jock and Maquire's nerd that would be best for Parker. So far, we didn't get that, but I find myself able to root for Maguire's underdog Parker much more than Garfield's fast talking jock.

Maguire's Parker seemed like the stereotypical nerd: socially awkward, wide-eyed, crippling shyness, and wearing button up shirts every day (most nerds don't dress like this anymore). All he was missing were the buck teeth and pocket protector. While this depiction accurately captures the early Steve Ditko/Stan Lee version, there's no metamorphosis into the more socially skilled person Peter Parker becomes in later comics.

Garfield's Peter Parker is a cool nerd who is comfortable in his own skin. His Spider-man persona has bled over into his high school student persona. While the kissing on stage and embarrassing Flash on the b-ball court may have been overkill, I'll take Garfield's alpha nerd over Maguire's idiot savant/nerd black-face any day of the week.

 

[LizardMan07]

The ASM version of Parker definetely has more range, more flaws. He's more 50/50.

Is that a good thing? I suppose its up to personal opinions but I always think flaws like that tend to lead to greater characterisation, so it really does depend on who you ask.

 

[Lord]

Maguire needed more development and to evolve, but let's not exagerate how nerdy he was, if he was as you say, then he would have been like pre-Electro from Amazing Spider-Man 2, people like that Peter Parker do exist, not every nerd has become the all cool Andrew Garfield. To be honest, i liked both actors on the role for different reasons, but if i had to say what the perfect one would be, it's something in between both performances, Peter starts like Maguire, and slowly evolves into Andrew.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The odd thing about the whole "civilians dying" thing in the car chase scene is that it happens a lot in other CBMS, and nobody seems to care all that much?

Did TWS blow up cars with a grenade launcher? It's been a while, I may be wrong

But Captain America isn't sitting on top of a truck making fun of Winter Soldier while it happens. He is trying to win. So it is not the same. Also, in several MCU films, the heroes take a second to save civilians.

 

[spidermanJLA!~]

Raimi focused more on Peter's growth into Spider-Man, not his (not-so-budding) social life.

 

[LizardMan07]

Aould people prefer if he swung in silent. Beat up Russian Rhino is 5 seconds, tied him to a pole. Said "not a second too late" Went and got a suit dry cleaned and rocked up to graduation 3 hours early? With a cake?

Maybe they overdid the quipping, but it was just your cliche action movie car chase scene for me, nothing OTP.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

But Captain America isn't sitting on top of a truck making fun of Winter Soldier while it happens. He is trying to win. So it is not the same. Also, in several MCU films, the heroes take a second to save civilians.

Spidey's 'delay' in that scene did cause some damage, I agree. However, he did save people. He saved Max. He saved a bus full with people and stopped it before it crushed a man walking his daughter/granddaughter. They even mentioned the amount of damage that Spidey was causing during a radio phone-in that was heard during the montage near the beginning of the film. And, we saw Spidey save others throughout the movie in almost every scene--the montage, the TS fight, etc. If anything this movie showed Spidey being the hero that saves people, much more than some other superhero flick that was heavily blamed for its massive destruction.

IMO, the damage caused during that opening scene is being exaggerated and over blown. I'm not saying it doesn't have some issues with what happened and like many other scenes, they could have done a better job with the writing. There's more than one way to showcase Spidey having his moment and stopping a criminal--and one that doesn't have injured bystanders.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Spidey's 'delay' in that scene did cause some damage, I agree. However, he did save people. He saved Max. He saved a bus full with people and stopped it before it crushed a man walking his daughter/granddaughter. They even mentioned the amount of damage that Spidey was causing during a radio phone-in that was heard during the montage near the beginning of the film. And, we saw Spidey save others throughout the movie in almost every scene--the montage, the TS fight, etc. If anything this movie showed Spidey being the hero that saves people, much more than some other superhero flick that was heavily blamed for its massive destruction.

IMO, the damage caused during that opening scene is being exaggerated and over blown. I'm not saying it doesn't have some issues with what happened and like many other scenes, they could have done a better job with the writing. There's more than one way to showcase Spidey having his moment and stopping a criminal--and one that doesn't have injured bystanders.

I didn't say he didn't save ANY civilains. He saved several. But, that doesn't mean I can forgive his blatant disregard for the situation he had during the car chase overall. That sequence was a bad look for Spidey, IMO.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Aould people prefer if he swung in silent. Beat up Russian Rhino is 5 seconds, tied him to a pole. Said "not a second too late" Went and got a suit dry cleaned and rocked up to graduation 3 hours early? With a cake?

Maybe they overdid the quipping, but it was just your cliche action movie car chase scene for me, nothing OTP.

No, I would have liked the scene to make me feel like Peter was TRYING to be there on time as opposed to messing around like a jerk. Like, his plans to stop the truck keep being foiled by something that happens in the scene or something resmling effort/good writing. Not he is just sitting on the roof of the truck shooting the breeze with the villain when he is on a time table. There is a big difference in how that looks.

 

[Perry9]

In TASM, i feel that Peter was portrayed as an actual character with complicated emotions.He's not the man that was always going to do the right thing.He reacts to situations like a normal teenager would with the spider's powers. I don't care if it's accurate to the comics or not (which i think it is in some degree), i just care for a good story with a character that i can relate to. With a character that does make mistakes, much like norman people do. That's what TASM gave to me, a real character with his pros and cons, something that i felt that the original trilogy never managed to capture.

 

[spiderral]

Garfield's Peter Parker is a cool nerd who is comfortable in his own skin. His Spider-man persona has bled over into his high school student persona. While the kissing on stage and embarrassing Flash on the b-ball court may have been overkill, I'll take Garfield's alpha nerd over Maguire's idiot savant/nerd black-face any day of the week.

^^ This.
On the topic of Peter kissing Gwen in front of everyone at graduation, I don't think it should be treated as such a bad thing; I enjoyed seeing a more confident, mature version of Peter in TASM2 and even if it does stray from the original characterisation of Peter Parker, I like that change as it feels more human and including moments like that, where the protagonist has moments of success and happiness, adds a lot more emotional weight when seeing a hero's downfall, in this case, Gwen's death.

 

[The Joker]

The Amazing Spider-Man movies managed to mess up just about everything that makes Spider-Man such a great read. Peter Parker is obnoxious, arrogant, and never feels like he has that classic Peter Parker bad luck which makes Peter the underdog we all root for. He is more wrapped up in the legacy of his boring parents than he is in Uncle Ben, and that is a big bastardization of who Peter Parker is. His Spider-Man is painfully unfunny with 90% of the quips being annoying and cringe worthy(Yo yo yo the boys in blue are here, A god named sparkles, Just don't call me late for dinner etc....*puke*).

The villains are god awful. Between the Goomba Lizard, the painfully cheesy and pointless Electro, Butthead on meth Goblin, and "Rhino", Marc Webb and Co. cannot do a good villain to save their life. I hate, hate, HATE how they bastardized the Goblin storyline.

The deaths of both Stacys were also ruined. In the comics Peter was responsible for Captain Stacy's by using an untested webbing formula against Doc Ock which resulted in Ock's tentacles going out of control and knocking a chimney off a roof crushing Captain Stacy. That was the epic tragedy of his death and the massive guilt Peter had to carry from that. It was like the flip side of Uncle Ben's death. This time Peter did act against the bad guy and a father figure still died. His dying words to Peter in the comics were to be good to Gwen and look after her. In TASM he was killed in the line of duty through no fault of Peter's, so there's no guilt there for Peter to feel towards his death, and he was telling Peter to stay away from Gwen as he was dying. A cold final moment between him and Peter.

With Gwen's death they missed the whole point of it, and why it was so tragic for Peter beyond him just losing someone he loved. Peter is once again blameless here because Gwen was there against his wishes and hammered it home to the audience that she was there by her own choice.

The Gwen and Peter relationship is far too syrupy and sweet. The only bit of drama that's added to it is that promise Peter makes and breaks within 5 minutes to Captain Stacy. The only thing that keeps any interest is the chemistry they have. The relationship itself is dull. And I again hate how cocky Peter is with her. Especially when he just casually revealed he was Spider-Man by webbing Gwen's ass and pulling her in to kiss her. Peter of the comics was far more reserved and cautious about revealing his identity to anyone. There's just no charm or likability to Garfield's Peter. He often acts like he's god's gift around Gwen.

Maguire's Peter is the classic true Peter Parker. He struggles with many personal problems. Keeping up with school work, paying bills, friendships etc all because of being Spider-Man. He is an interesting and likable Peter Parker because his life is a drama because of juggling both lives, and he is not an unpleasant jerk about it. Give me a Peter Parker who racks himself with guilt over his Uncle's death, who turns to his Uncle in his mind when he has to make tough decisions to quit. Who delivers genuine emotion when he confesses to Aunt May about his role in Ben's death. That's a real conflicted flawed person, not Garfield's Peter. He couldn't do scenes like this. He's not got the emotional depth or character for it. Maguire's Spider-Man is the personification of the true Spider-Man character. He didn't need to be shouting off quips every 30 seconds because that is not what defines who Spider-Man really is.

Every single one of Raimi's villains are well done, and in Venom's case even better than the comic book counterpart. The comic book Venom had the stupidest of reasons for hating Spider-Man. The movie actually improved Venom over the comic book version. In the comics Eddie Brock hates Spider-Man because Eddie published a news story about Sin Eater's identity that turned out to be false when Spidey caught the real Sin Eater. He got fired and his life went to crap, and he blames Spidey for that. All Spidey did was catch a serial killer. He didn't even know Eddie from Adam. They never met. Spidey was not an obstacle to Eddie writing a good honest news story.

In SM-3 Raimi made an actual connection between Peter and Eddie, and he gave him real reasons to hate him. Peter exposed Eddie's fraud, roughed him up and humiliated him, and dated the girl Eddie was infatuated with.

The Goblin story was superbly done. Norman and Harry Osborn were well developed three dimensional characters, and in Harry's case he had a proper friendship with Peter, and not some sloppy rushed 2 minute cheesy scene talking about mirrors and combs and skipping stones. Doc Ock was magnificent, and so true to the comics in so many ways, in spite of the redemption at the end; http://molinaock.blogspot.ie/

The action scenes are magnificent, some of the finest of any comic book movie, and many people believe no CBM action sequence has topped the train fight of SM-2 and I agree.

MJ, aside from SM-3, was well done, and their relationship very well handled. There was proper depth there. MJ was not just a Miss perfect like TASM's Gwen. MJ was a real person with flaws and issues.

The supporting cast of Raimi's movies, especially Jonah and Aunt May, trump every supporting character in the TASM movies, who are all on the whole bland and forgettable, and in Captain Stacy's case nothing but a nagging jerk.

Raimi's movies have surpassed the TASM series in every conceivable area. The only true constant positive of the TASM movies is Stone's Gwen.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The only true constant positive of the TASM movies is Stone's Gwen.

And she's gone now, so that doesn't bode well for TASM3 and beyond.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Good job analyzing these films.

 

[webhead731]

the amazing spider-man movies managed to mess up just about everything that makes spider-man such a great read. Peter parker is obnoxious, arrogant, and never feels like he has that classic peter parker bad luck which makes peter the underdog we all root for. He is more wrapped up in the legacy of his boring parents than he is in uncle ben, and that is a big bastardization of who peter parker is. His spider-man is painfully unfunny with 90% of the quips being annoying and cringe worthy.

The villains are god awful. Between the goomba lizard, the painfully cheesy and pointless electro, butthead on meth goblin, and "rhino", marc webb and co. Cannot do a good villain to save their life. I hate, hate, hate how they bastardized the goblin storyline.

The deaths of both stacys were also ruined. In the comics peter was responsible for that by using an untested webbing formula against doc ock which resulted in ock's tentacles going out of control and knocking a chimney off a roof crushing captain stacey. That was the epic tragedy of his death and the massive guilt peter had to carry from that. It was like the flip side of uncle ben's death. This time peter did act against the bad guy and a father figure still died. His dying words to peter in the comics were to be good to gwen and look after her. In tasm he was killed in the line of duty through no fault of peter's, so there's no guilt there for peter to feel towards his death, and he was telling peter to stay away from gwen as he was dying. A cold final moment between him and peter.

With gwen's death they missed the whole point of it, and why it was so tragic for peter beyond him just losing someone he loved. Peter is once again blameless here because gwen was there against his wishes and hammered it home to the audience that she was there by her own choice.

The gwen and peter relationship is far too syrupy and sweet. The only bit of drama that's added to it is that promise peter makes and breaks within 5 minutes to captain stacy. The only thing that keeps any interest is the chemistry they have. The relationship itself is dull. And i again hate how cocky peter is with her. Especially when he just casually revealed he was spider-man by webbing gwen's ass and pulling her in to kiss her. Peter of the comics was far more reserved and cautious about revealing his identity to anyone. There's just no charm or likability to garfield's peter. He often acts like he's god's gift around gwen.

Maguire's peter is the classic true peter parker. He struggles with many personal problems. Keeping up with school work, paying bills, friendships etc all because of being spider-man. He is an interesting and likable peter parker because his life is a drama because of juggling both lives, and he is not an unpleasant jerk about it. Give me a peter parker who racks himself with guilt over his uncle's death, who turns to his uncle in his mind when he has to make tough decisions to quit. Who delivers genuine emotion when he confesses to aunt may about his role in ben's death. That's a real conflicted flawed person, not garfield's peter. He couldn't do scenes like this. He's not got the emotional depth or character for it. Maguire's spider-man is the personification of the true spider-man character. He didn't need to be shouting off quips every 30 seconds because that is not what defines who spider-man really is.

Every single one of raimi's villains are well done, and in venom's case even better than the comic book counterpart. The comic book venom had the stupidest of reasons for hating spider-man. The movie actually improved venom over the comic book version. In the comics eddie brock hates spider-man because eddie published a news story about sin eater's identity that turned out to be false when spidey caught the real sin eater. He got fired and his life went to crap, and he blames spidey for that. All spidey did was catch a serial killer. He didn't even know eddie from adam. They never met. Spidey was not an obstacle to eddie writing a good honest news story.

In sm-3 raimi made an actual connection between peter and eddie, and he gave him real reasons to hate him. Peter exposed eddie's fraud, roughed him up and humiliated him, and dated the girl eddie was infatuated with.

The goblin story was superbly done. Doc ock was magnificent, and so true to the comics in so many ways, in spite of the redemption at the end; http://molinaock.blogspot.ie/

the action scenes are magnificent, some of the finest of any comic book movie, and many people believe no cbm action sequence has topped the train fight of sm-2 and i agree.

Mj, aside from sm-3, was well done, and their relationship very well handled.

Raimi's movies have surpassed the tasm series in every conceivable area. The only true constant positive of the tasm movies is stone's gwen.

daaaayyuuummm

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I didn't say he didn't save ANY civilains. He saved several. But, that doesn't mean I can forgive his blatant disregard for the situation he had during the car chase overall. That sequence was a bad look for Spidey, IMO.

I will agree with you on the last part. The opening scene could have used some better writing. There's a way to show Spidey having his moment without causing injury to bystanders even with the people that he was saving. I think the amount of destruction to property was actually pretty cool and only made the scene more tense but they could have showed Spidey at least attempting to save or prevent the type of damage that could have caused injuries. For instance, he could have webbed up that taxi between the buildings before it hit the ground. But again, as much as people are complaining about the opening chase bit, imo, it's being exaggerated.

 

[DX]

The Amazing Spider-Man movies managed to mess up just about everything that makes Spider-Man such a great read. Peter Parker is obnoxious, arrogant, and never feels like he has that classic Peter Parker bad luck which makes Peter the underdog we all root for. He is more wrapped up in the legacy of his boring parents than he is in Uncle Ben, and that is a big bastardization of who Peter Parker is. His Spider-Man is painfully unfunny with 90% of the quips being annoying and cringe worthy(Yo yo yo the boys in blue are here, A god named sparkles, Just don't call me late for dinner etc....*puke*).

The villains are god awful. Between the Goomba Lizard, the painfully cheesy and pointless Electro, Butthead on meth Goblin, and "Rhino", Marc Webb and Co. cannot do a good villain to save their life. I hate, hate, HATE how they bastardized the Goblin storyline.

The deaths of both Stacys were also ruined. In the comics Peter was responsible for Captain Stacy's by using an untested webbing formula against Doc Ock which resulted in Ock's tentacles going out of control and knocking a chimney off a roof crushing Captain Stacy. That was the epic tragedy of his death and the massive guilt Peter had to carry from that. It was like the flip side of Uncle Ben's death. This time Peter did act against the bad guy and a father figure still died. His dying words to Peter in the comics were to be good to Gwen and look after her. In TASM he was killed in the line of duty through no fault of Peter's, so there's no guilt there for Peter to feel towards his death, and he was telling Peter to stay away from Gwen as he was dying. A cold final moment between him and Peter.

With Gwen's death they missed the whole point of it, and why it was so tragic for Peter beyond him just losing someone he loved. Peter is once again blameless here because Gwen was there against his wishes and hammered it home to the audience that she was there by her own choice.

The Gwen and Peter relationship is far too syrupy and sweet. The only bit of drama that's added to it is that promise Peter makes and breaks within 5 minutes to Captain Stacy. The only thing that keeps any interest is the chemistry they have. The relationship itself is dull. And I again hate how cocky Peter is with her. Especially when he just casually revealed he was Spider-Man by webbing Gwen's ass and pulling her in to kiss her. Peter of the comics was far more reserved and cautious about revealing his identity to anyone. There's just no charm or likability to Garfield's Peter. He often acts like he's god's gift around Gwen.

Maguire's Peter is the classic true Peter Parker. He struggles with many personal problems. Keeping up with school work, paying bills, friendships etc all because of being Spider-Man. He is an interesting and likable Peter Parker because his life is a drama because of juggling both lives, and he is not an unpleasant jerk about it. Give me a Peter Parker who racks himself with guilt over his Uncle's death, who turns to his Uncle in his mind when he has to make tough decisions to quit. Who delivers genuine emotion when he confesses to Aunt May about his role in Ben's death. That's a real conflicted flawed person, not Garfield's Peter. He couldn't do scenes like this. He's not got the emotional depth or character for it. Maguire's Spider-Man is the personification of the true Spider-Man character. He didn't need to be shouting off quips every 30 seconds because that is not what defines who Spider-Man really is.

Every single one of Raimi's villains are well done, and in Venom's case even better than the comic book counterpart. The comic book Venom had the stupidest of reasons for hating Spider-Man. The movie actually improved Venom over the comic book version. In the comics Eddie Brock hates Spider-Man because Eddie published a news story about Sin Eater's identity that turned out to be false when Spidey caught the real Sin Eater. He got fired and his life went to crap, and he blames Spidey for that. All Spidey did was catch a serial killer. He didn't even know Eddie from Adam. They never met. Spidey was not an obstacle to Eddie writing a good honest news story.

In SM-3 Raimi made an actual connection between Peter and Eddie, and he gave him real reasons to hate him. Peter exposed Eddie's fraud, roughed him up and humiliated him, and dated the girl Eddie was infatuated with.

The Goblin story was superbly done. Norman and Harry Osborn were well developed three dimensional characters, and in Harry's case he had a proper friendship with Peter, and not some sloppy rushed 2 minute cheesy scene talking about mirrors and combs and skipping stones. Doc Ock was magnificent, and so true to the comics in so many ways, in spite of the redemption at the end; http://molinaock.blogspot.ie/

The action scenes are magnificent, some of the finest of any comic book movie, and many people believe no CBM action sequence has topped the train fight of SM-2 and I agree.

MJ, aside from SM-3, was well done, and their relationship very well handled. There was proper depth there. MJ was not just a Miss perfect like TASM's Gwen. MJ was a real person with flaws and issues.

The supporting cast of Raimi's movies, especially Jonah and Aunt May, trump every supporting character in the TASM movies, who are all on the whole bland and forgettable, and in Captain Stacy's case nothing but a nagging jerk.

Raimi's movies have surpassed the TASM series in every conceivable area. The only true constant positive of the TASM movies is Stone's Gwen.

Bravo, sir.

Bra. ****ing. Vo.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

The ASM version of Parker definetely has more range, more flaws. He's more 50/50.

Is that a good thing? I suppose its up to personal opinions but I always think flaws like that tend to lead to greater characterisation, so it really does depend on who you ask.

It makes him more human if you ask me.Peter isn't perfect, he's a teenager and make mistakes like any other person would.

More relatable for me than the forced loser.

I don't hate Maguire,I like his PP but Andrew did better in both areas IMO.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

The Amazing Spider-Man movies managed to mess up just about everything that makes Spider-Man such a great read. Peter Parker is obnoxious, arrogant, and never feels like he has that classic Peter Parker bad luck which makes Peter the underdog we all root for. He is more wrapped up in the legacy of his boring parents than he is in Uncle Ben, and that is a big bastardization of who Peter Parker is. His Spider-Man is painfully unfunny with 90% of the quips being annoying and cringe worthy(Yo yo yo the boys in blue are here, A god named sparkles, Just don't call me late for dinner etc....*puke*).

The villains are god awful. Between the Goomba Lizard, the painfully cheesy and pointless Electro, Butthead on meth Goblin, and "Rhino", Marc Webb and Co. cannot do a good villain to save their life. I hate, hate, HATE how they bastardized the Goblin storyline.

The deaths of both Stacys were also ruined. In the comics Peter was responsible for Captain Stacy's by using an untested webbing formula against Doc Ock which resulted in Ock's tentacles going out of control and knocking a chimney off a roof crushing Captain Stacy. That was the epic tragedy of his death and the massive guilt Peter had to carry from that. It was like the flip side of Uncle Ben's death. This time Peter did act against the bad guy and a father figure still died. His dying words to Peter in the comics were to be good to Gwen and look after her. In TASM he was killed in the line of duty through no fault of Peter's, so there's no guilt there for Peter to feel towards his death, and he was telling Peter to stay away from Gwen as he was dying. A cold final moment between him and Peter.

With Gwen's death they missed the whole point of it, and why it was so tragic for Peter beyond him just losing someone he loved. Peter is once again blameless here because Gwen was there against his wishes and hammered it home to the audience that she was there by her own choice.

The Gwen and Peter relationship is far too syrupy and sweet. The only bit of drama that's added to it is that promise Peter makes and breaks within 5 minutes to Captain Stacy. The only thing that keeps any interest is the chemistry they have. The relationship itself is dull. And I again hate how cocky Peter is with her. Especially when he just casually revealed he was Spider-Man by webbing Gwen's ass and pulling her in to kiss her. Peter of the comics was far more reserved and cautious about revealing his identity to anyone. There's just no charm or likability to Garfield's Peter. He often acts like he's god's gift around Gwen.

Maguire's Peter is the classic true Peter Parker. He struggles with many personal problems. Keeping up with school work, paying bills, friendships etc all because of being Spider-Man. He is an interesting and likable Peter Parker because his life is a drama because of juggling both lives, and he is not an unpleasant jerk about it. Give me a Peter Parker who racks himself with guilt over his Uncle's death, who turns to his Uncle in his mind when he has to make tough decisions to quit. Who delivers genuine emotion when he confesses to Aunt May about his role in Ben's death. That's a real conflicted flawed person, not Garfield's Peter. He couldn't do scenes like this. He's not got the emotional depth or character for it. Maguire's Spider-Man is the personification of the true Spider-Man character. He didn't need to be shouting off quips every 30 seconds because that is not what defines who Spider-Man really is.

Every single one of Raimi's villains are well done, and in Venom's case even better than the comic book counterpart. The comic book Venom had the stupidest of reasons for hating Spider-Man. The movie actually improved Venom over the comic book version. In the comics Eddie Brock hates Spider-Man because Eddie published a news story about Sin Eater's identity that turned out to be false when Spidey caught the real Sin Eater. He got fired and his life went to crap, and he blames Spidey for that. All Spidey did was catch a serial killer. He didn't even know Eddie from Adam. They never met. Spidey was not an obstacle to Eddie writing a good honest news story.

In SM-3 Raimi made an actual connection between Peter and Eddie, and he gave him real reasons to hate him. Peter exposed Eddie's fraud, roughed him up and humiliated him, and dated the girl Eddie was infatuated with.

The Goblin story was superbly done. Norman and Harry Osborn were well developed three dimensional characters, and in Harry's case he had a proper friendship with Peter, and not some sloppy rushed 2 minute cheesy scene talking about mirrors and combs and skipping stones. Doc Ock was magnificent, and so true to the comics in so many ways, in spite of the redemption at the end; http://molinaock.blogspot.ie/

The action scenes are magnificent, some of the finest of any comic book movie, and many people believe no CBM action sequence has topped the train fight of SM-2 and I agree.

MJ, aside from SM-3, was well done, and their relationship very well handled. There was proper depth there. MJ was not just a Miss perfect like TASM's Gwen. MJ was a real person with flaws and issues.

The supporting cast of Raimi's movies, especially Jonah and Aunt May, trump every supporting character in the TASM movies, who are all on the whole bland and forgettable, and in Captain Stacy's case nothing but a nagging jerk.

Raimi's movies have surpassed the TASM series in every conceivable area. The only true constant positive of the TASM movies is Stone's Gwen.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

The Amazing Spider-Man movies managed to mess up just about everything that makes Spider-Man such a great read. Peter Parker is obnoxious, arrogant, and never feels like he has that classic Peter Parker bad luck which makes Peter the underdog we all root for. He is more wrapped up in the legacy of his boring parents than he is in Uncle Ben, and that is a big bastardization of who Peter Parker is. His Spider-Man is painfully unfunny with 90% of the quips being annoying and cringe worthy(Yo yo yo the boys in blue are here, A god named sparkles, Just don't call me late for dinner etc....*puke*).

The villains are god awful. Between the Goomba Lizard, the painfully cheesy and pointless Electro, Butthead on meth Goblin, and "Rhino", Marc Webb and Co. cannot do a good villain to save their life. I hate, hate, HATE how they bastardized the Goblin storyline.

The deaths of both Stacys were also ruined. In the comics Peter was responsible for Captain Stacy's by using an untested webbing formula against Doc Ock which resulted in Ock's tentacles going out of control and knocking a chimney off a roof crushing Captain Stacy. That was the epic tragedy of his death and the massive guilt Peter had to carry from that. It was like the flip side of Uncle Ben's death. This time Peter did act against the bad guy and a father figure still died. His dying words to Peter in the comics were to be good to Gwen and look after her. In TASM he was killed in the line of duty through no fault of Peter's, so there's no guilt there for Peter to feel towards his death, and he was telling Peter to stay away from Gwen as he was dying. A cold final moment between him and Peter.

With Gwen's death they missed the whole point of it, and why it was so tragic for Peter beyond him just losing someone he loved. Peter is once again blameless here because Gwen was there against his wishes and hammered it home to the audience that she was there by her own choice.

The Gwen and Peter relationship is far too syrupy and sweet. The only bit of drama that's added to it is that promise Peter makes and breaks within 5 minutes to Captain Stacy. The only thing that keeps any interest is the chemistry they have. The relationship itself is dull. And I again hate how cocky Peter is with her. Especially when he just casually revealed he was Spider-Man by webbing Gwen's ass and pulling her in to kiss her. Peter of the comics was far more reserved and cautious about revealing his identity to anyone. There's just no charm or likability to Garfield's Peter. He often acts like he's god's gift around Gwen.

Maguire's Peter is the classic true Peter Parker. He struggles with many personal problems. Keeping up with school work, paying bills, friendships etc all because of being Spider-Man. He is an interesting and likable Peter Parker because his life is a drama because of juggling both lives, and he is not an unpleasant jerk about it. Give me a Peter Parker who racks himself with guilt over his Uncle's death, who turns to his Uncle in his mind when he has to make tough decisions to quit. Who delivers genuine emotion when he confesses to Aunt May about his role in Ben's death. That's a real conflicted flawed person, not Garfield's Peter. He couldn't do scenes like this. He's not got the emotional depth or character for it. Maguire's Spider-Man is the personification of the true Spider-Man character. He didn't need to be shouting off quips every 30 seconds because that is not what defines who Spider-Man really is.

Every single one of Raimi's villains are well done, and in Venom's case even better than the comic book counterpart. The comic book Venom had the stupidest of reasons for hating Spider-Man. The movie actually improved Venom over the comic book version. In the comics Eddie Brock hates Spider-Man because Eddie published a news story about Sin Eater's identity that turned out to be false when Spidey caught the real Sin Eater. He got fired and his life went to crap, and he blames Spidey for that. All Spidey did was catch a serial killer. He didn't even know Eddie from Adam. They never met. Spidey was not an obstacle to Eddie writing a good honest news story.

In SM-3 Raimi made an actual connection between Peter and Eddie, and he gave him real reasons to hate him. Peter exposed Eddie's fraud, roughed him up and humiliated him, and dated the girl Eddie was infatuated with.

The Goblin story was superbly done. Norman and Harry Osborn were well developed three dimensional characters, and in Harry's case he had a proper friendship with Peter, and not some sloppy rushed 2 minute cheesy scene talking about mirrors and combs and skipping stones. Doc Ock was magnificent, and so true to the comics in so many ways, in spite of the redemption at the end; http://molinaock.blogspot.ie/

The action scenes are magnificent, some of the finest of any comic book movie, and many people believe no CBM action sequence has topped the train fight of SM-2 and I agree.

MJ, aside from SM-3, was well done, and their relationship very well handled. There was proper depth there. MJ was not just a Miss perfect like TASM's Gwen. MJ was a real person with flaws and issues.

The supporting cast of Raimi's movies, especially Jonah and Aunt May, trump every supporting character in the TASM movies, who are all on the whole bland and forgettable, and in Captain Stacy's case nothing but a nagging jerk.

Raimi's movies have surpassed the TASM series in every conceivable area. The only true constant positive of the TASM movies is Stone's Gwen.

I don't think there is anything else left to say lol

 

[Spider-Fan]

The Amazing Spider-Man movies managed to mess up just about everything that makes Spider-Man such a great read. Peter Parker is obnoxious, arrogant, and never feels like he has that classic Peter Parker bad luck which makes Peter the underdog we all root for. He is more wrapped up in the legacy of his boring parents than he is in Uncle Ben, and that is a big bastardization of who Peter Parker is. His Spider-Man is painfully unfunny with 90% of the quips being annoying and cringe worthy(Yo yo yo the boys in blue are here, A god named sparkles, Just don't call me late for dinner etc....*puke*).

The villains are god awful. Between the Goomba Lizard, the painfully cheesy and pointless Electro, Butthead on meth Goblin, and "Rhino", Marc Webb and Co. cannot do a good villain to save their life. I hate, hate, HATE how they bastardized the Goblin storyline.

The deaths of both Stacys were also ruined. In the comics Peter was responsible for Captain Stacy's by using an untested webbing formula against Doc Ock which resulted in Ock's tentacles going out of control and knocking a chimney off a roof crushing Captain Stacy. That was the epic tragedy of his death and the massive guilt Peter had to carry from that. It was like the flip side of Uncle Ben's death. This time Peter did act against the bad guy and a father figure still died. His dying words to Peter in the comics were to be good to Gwen and look after her. In TASM he was killed in the line of duty through no fault of Peter's, so there's no guilt there for Peter to feel towards his death, and he was telling Peter to stay away from Gwen as he was dying. A cold final moment between him and Peter.

With Gwen's death they missed the whole point of it, and why it was so tragic for Peter beyond him just losing someone he loved. Peter is once again blameless here because Gwen was there against his wishes and hammered it home to the audience that she was there by her own choice.

The Gwen and Peter relationship is far too syrupy and sweet. The only bit of drama that's added to it is that promise Peter makes and breaks within 5 minutes to Captain Stacy. The only thing that keeps any interest is the chemistry they have. The relationship itself is dull. And I again hate how cocky Peter is with her. Especially when he just casually revealed he was Spider-Man by webbing Gwen's ass and pulling her in to kiss her. Peter of the comics was far more reserved and cautious about revealing his identity to anyone. There's just no charm or likability to Garfield's Peter. He often acts like he's god's gift around Gwen.

Maguire's Peter is the classic true Peter Parker. He struggles with many personal problems. Keeping up with school work, paying bills, friendships etc all because of being Spider-Man. He is an interesting and likable Peter Parker because his life is a drama because of juggling both lives, and he is not an unpleasant jerk about it. Give me a Peter Parker who racks himself with guilt over his Uncle's death, who turns to his Uncle in his mind when he has to make tough decisions to quit. Who delivers genuine emotion when he confesses to Aunt May about his role in Ben's death. That's a real conflicted flawed person, not Garfield's Peter. He couldn't do scenes like this. He's not got the emotional depth or character for it. Maguire's Spider-Man is the personification of the true Spider-Man character. He didn't need to be shouting off quips every 30 seconds because that is not what defines who Spider-Man really is.

Every single one of Raimi's villains are well done, and in Venom's case even better than the comic book counterpart. The comic book Venom had the stupidest of reasons for hating Spider-Man. The movie actually improved Venom over the comic book version. In the comics Eddie Brock hates Spider-Man because Eddie published a news story about Sin Eater's identity that turned out to be false when Spidey caught the real Sin Eater. He got fired and his life went to crap, and he blames Spidey for that. All Spidey did was catch a serial killer. He didn't even know Eddie from Adam. They never met. Spidey was not an obstacle to Eddie writing a good honest news story.

In SM-3 Raimi made an actual connection between Peter and Eddie, and he gave him real reasons to hate him. Peter exposed Eddie's fraud, roughed him up and humiliated him, and dated the girl Eddie was infatuated with.

The Goblin story was superbly done. Norman and Harry Osborn were well developed three dimensional characters, and in Harry's case he had a proper friendship with Peter, and not some sloppy rushed 2 minute cheesy scene talking about mirrors and combs and skipping stones. Doc Ock was magnificent, and so true to the comics in so many ways, in spite of the redemption at the end; http://molinaock.blogspot.ie/

The action scenes are magnificent, some of the finest of any comic book movie, and many people believe no CBM action sequence has topped the train fight of SM-2 and I agree.

MJ, aside from SM-3, was well done, and their relationship very well handled. There was proper depth there. MJ was not just a Miss perfect like TASM's Gwen. MJ was a real person with flaws and issues.

The supporting cast of Raimi's movies, especially Jonah and Aunt May, trump every supporting character in the TASM movies, who are all on the whole bland and forgettable, and in Captain Stacy's case nothing but a nagging jerk.

Raimi's movies have surpassed the TASM series in every conceivable area. The only true constant positive of the TASM movies is Stone's Gwen.

This is a fantastic write up! I agree with basically all of this

 

[LizardMan07]

The Amazing Spider-Man movies managed to mess up just about everything that makes Spider-Man such a great read. Peter Parker is obnoxious, arrogant, and never feels like he has that classic Peter Parker bad luck which makes Peter the underdog we all root for. He is more wrapped up in the legacy of his boring parents than he is in Uncle Ben, and that is a big bastardization of who Peter Parker is. His Spider-Man is painfully unfunny with 90% of the quips being annoying and cringe worthy(Yo yo yo the boys in blue are here, A god named sparkles, Just don't call me late for dinner etc....*puke*).

The villains are god awful. Between the Goomba Lizard, the painfully cheesy and pointless Electro, Butthead on meth Goblin, and "Rhino", Marc Webb and Co. cannot do a good villain to save their life. I hate, hate, HATE how they bastardized the Goblin storyline.

The deaths of both Stacys were also ruined. In the comics Peter was responsible for Captain Stacy's by using an untested webbing formula against Doc Ock which resulted in Ock's tentacles going out of control and knocking a chimney off a roof crushing Captain Stacy. That was the epic tragedy of his death and the massive guilt Peter had to carry from that. It was like the flip side of Uncle Ben's death. This time Peter did act against the bad guy and a father figure still died. His dying words to Peter in the comics were to be good to Gwen and look after her. In TASM he was killed in the line of duty through no fault of Peter's, so there's no guilt there for Peter to feel towards his death, and he was telling Peter to stay away from Gwen as he was dying. A cold final moment between him and Peter.

With Gwen's death they missed the whole point of it, and why it was so tragic for Peter beyond him just losing someone he loved. Peter is once again blameless here because Gwen was there against his wishes and hammered it home to the audience that she was there by her own choice.

The Gwen and Peter relationship is far too syrupy and sweet. The only bit of drama that's added to it is that promise Peter makes and breaks within 5 minutes to Captain Stacy. The only thing that keeps any interest is the chemistry they have. The relationship itself is dull. And I again hate how cocky Peter is with her. Especially when he just casually revealed he was Spider-Man by webbing Gwen's ass and pulling her in to kiss her. Peter of the comics was far more reserved and cautious about revealing his identity to anyone. There's just no charm or likability to Garfield's Peter. He often acts like he's god's gift around Gwen.

Maguire's Peter is the classic true Peter Parker. He struggles with many personal problems. Keeping up with school work, paying bills, friendships etc all because of being Spider-Man. He is an interesting and likable Peter Parker because his life is a drama because of juggling both lives, and he is not an unpleasant jerk about it. Give me a Peter Parker who racks himself with guilt over his Uncle's death, who turns to his Uncle in his mind when he has to make tough decisions to quit. Who delivers genuine emotion when he confesses to Aunt May about his role in Ben's death. That's a real conflicted flawed person, not Garfield's Peter. He couldn't do scenes like this. He's not got the emotional depth or character for it. Maguire's Spider-Man is the personification of the true Spider-Man character. He didn't need to be shouting off quips every 30 seconds because that is not what defines who Spider-Man really is.

Every single one of Raimi's villains are well done, and in Venom's case even better than the comic book counterpart. The comic book Venom had the stupidest of reasons for hating Spider-Man. The movie actually improved Venom over the comic book version. In the comics Eddie Brock hates Spider-Man because Eddie published a news story about Sin Eater's identity that turned out to be false when Spidey caught the real Sin Eater. He got fired and his life went to crap, and he blames Spidey for that. All Spidey did was catch a serial killer. He didn't even know Eddie from Adam. They never met. Spidey was not an obstacle to Eddie writing a good honest news story.

In SM-3 Raimi made an actual connection between Peter and Eddie, and he gave him real reasons to hate him. Peter exposed Eddie's fraud, roughed him up and humiliated him, and dated the girl Eddie was infatuated with.

The Goblin story was superbly done. Norman and Harry Osborn were well developed three dimensional characters, and in Harry's case he had a proper friendship with Peter, and not some sloppy rushed 2 minute cheesy scene talking about mirrors and combs and skipping stones. Doc Ock was magnificent, and so true to the comics in so many ways, in spite of the redemption at the end; http://molinaock.blogspot.ie/

The action scenes are magnificent, some of the finest of any comic book movie, and many people believe no CBM action sequence has topped the train fight of SM-2 and I agree.

MJ, aside from SM-3, was well done, and their relationship very well handled. There was proper depth there. MJ was not just a Miss perfect like TASM's Gwen. MJ was a real person with flaws and issues.

The supporting cast of Raimi's movies, especially Jonah and Aunt May, trump every supporting character in the TASM movies, who are all on the whole bland and forgettable, and in Captain Stacy's case nothing but a nagging jerk.

Raimi's movies have surpassed the TASM series in every conceivable area. The only true constant positive of the TASM movies is Stone's Gwen.

#Jokered

First Bold: You say the lizard looked silly, but if that fella was contorting his jaw in inconcievable ways to devour your face, you'd be scared!

Second bold: Andrew Garfield can pull off any emotional scene you throw at him. Easily. Whether the writers actually WROTE Garfield oppurtunities to do this is up for debate, but Garfield is a damn fine actor, and I'd venture to say by the end of his career he'll have far more accolades than Macguire. Heck, the scene at the end where Gwen died, that was jaw-droppingly believable, he killed it.

Random BRAB musings;

Your praise for the Sam Raimi films I totally agree with, perhaps with the exception of MJ, who I think is the weakest character in the Raimi trilogy, just due to the fact that she's an awful human being. I don't care how poorly you feel, you don't ditch someone at the alter, you don't cheat on your SO, you don't manipulate them. She was just someone for Peter to save and be sad about, you never felt that classic flair that MJ should.

Raimi's films trancend that, which shows their overall class.

On another point, is there a line in the Sam Raimi series that is worse than TASM's "Those are the best kind?"

Man, it sounds crazy now. In context, you just got someone's dad killed, ditched the funeral, and now you're making light of their dying wish.

Gwen should have slapped him.

 

[GoodYoung]

The Amazing Spider-Man movies managed to mess up just about everything that makes Spider-Man such a great read. Peter Parker is obnoxious, arrogant, and never feels like he has that classic Peter Parker bad luck which makes Peter the underdog we all root for. He is more wrapped up in the legacy of his boring parents than he is in Uncle Ben, and that is a big bastardization of who Peter Parker is. His Spider-Man is painfully unfunny with 90% of the quips being annoying and cringe worthy(Yo yo yo the boys in blue are here, A god named sparkles, Just don't call me late for dinner etc....*puke*).

The villains are god awful. Between the Goomba Lizard, the painfully cheesy and pointless Electro, Butthead on meth Goblin, and "Rhino", Marc Webb and Co. cannot do a good villain to save their life. I hate, hate, HATE how they bastardized the Goblin storyline.

The deaths of both Stacys were also ruined. In the comics Peter was responsible for Captain Stacy's by using an untested webbing formula against Doc Ock which resulted in Ock's tentacles going out of control and knocking a chimney off a roof crushing Captain Stacy. That was the epic tragedy of his death and the massive guilt Peter had to carry from that. It was like the flip side of Uncle Ben's death. This time Peter did act against the bad guy and a father figure still died. His dying words to Peter in the comics were to be good to Gwen and look after her. In TASM he was killed in the line of duty through no fault of Peter's, so there's no guilt there for Peter to feel towards his death, and he was telling Peter to stay away from Gwen as he was dying. A cold final moment between him and Peter.

With Gwen's death they missed the whole point of it, and why it was so tragic for Peter beyond him just losing someone he loved. Peter is once again blameless here because Gwen was there against his wishes and hammered it home to the audience that she was there by her own choice.

The Gwen and Peter relationship is far too syrupy and sweet. The only bit of drama that's added to it is that promise Peter makes and breaks within 5 minutes to Captain Stacy. The only thing that keeps any interest is the chemistry they have. The relationship itself is dull. And I again hate how cocky Peter is with her. Especially when he just casually revealed he was Spider-Man by webbing Gwen's ass and pulling her in to kiss her. Peter of the comics was far more reserved and cautious about revealing his identity to anyone. There's just no charm or likability to Garfield's Peter. He often acts like he's god's gift around Gwen.

Maguire's Peter is the classic true Peter Parker. He struggles with many personal problems. Keeping up with school work, paying bills, friendships etc all because of being Spider-Man. He is an interesting and likable Peter Parker because his life is a drama because of juggling both lives, and he is not an unpleasant jerk about it. Give me a Peter Parker who racks himself with guilt over his Uncle's death, who turns to his Uncle in his mind when he has to make tough decisions to quit. Who delivers genuine emotion when he confesses to Aunt May about his role in Ben's death. That's a real conflicted flawed person, not Garfield's Peter. He couldn't do scenes like this. He's not got the emotional depth or character for it. Maguire's Spider-Man is the personification of the true Spider-Man character. He didn't need to be shouting off quips every 30 seconds because that is not what defines who Spider-Man really is.

Every single one of Raimi's villains are well done, and in Venom's case even better than the comic book counterpart. The comic book Venom had the stupidest of reasons for hating Spider-Man. The movie actually improved Venom over the comic book version. In the comics Eddie Brock hates Spider-Man because Eddie published a news story about Sin Eater's identity that turned out to be false when Spidey caught the real Sin Eater. He got fired and his life went to crap, and he blames Spidey for that. All Spidey did was catch a serial killer. He didn't even know Eddie from Adam. They never met. Spidey was not an obstacle to Eddie writing a good honest news story.

In SM-3 Raimi made an actual connection between Peter and Eddie, and he gave him real reasons to hate him. Peter exposed Eddie's fraud, roughed him up and humiliated him, and dated the girl Eddie was infatuated with.

The Goblin story was superbly done. Norman and Harry Osborn were well developed three dimensional characters, and in Harry's case he had a proper friendship with Peter, and not some sloppy rushed 2 minute cheesy scene talking about mirrors and combs and skipping stones. Doc Ock was magnificent, and so true to the comics in so many ways, in spite of the redemption at the end; http://molinaock.blogspot.ie/

The action scenes are magnificent, some of the finest of any comic book movie, and many people believe no CBM action sequence has topped the train fight of SM-2 and I agree.

MJ, aside from SM-3, was well done, and their relationship very well handled. There was proper depth there. MJ was not just a Miss perfect like TASM's Gwen. MJ was a real person with flaws and issues.

The supporting cast of Raimi's movies, especially Jonah and Aunt May, trump every supporting character in the TASM movies, who are all on the whole bland and forgettable, and in Captain Stacy's case nothing but a nagging jerk.

Raimi's movies have surpassed the TASM series in every conceivable area. The only true constant positive of the TASM movies is Stone's Gwen.

It's funny how you didn't mentioned some of the worst lines ever in cbms like "Are you in or are you out?", terrible acting from Tobey/Dunst and that awful fight scene in burning building in Spider-Man 1.
Also,

MJ, aside from SM-3, was well done, and their relationship very well handled. There was proper depth there. MJ was not just a Miss perfect like TASM's Gwen. MJ was a real person with flaws and issues.

Lol. I thought that even biggest Raimi fans would admit the obvious that Gwen is much better character than that thing in SM 1-3

Raimi's movies have surpassed the TASM series in every conceivable area. The only true constant positive of the TASM movies is Stone's Gwen.

That's also not true.

 

[LizardMan07]

Goodyoung, Joker is one of the biggest Raimi fans, and he thinks that MJ was better than Gwen, I think that makes you objectively wrong mate. I'm no expert though.

Personally, I think Stone's Gwen absolutely knocks MJ out of the park in every conceivable way. It helps that Garfield and Stone have chemistry that you just can't act, its an invaluable asset.

MJ should be flamboyant I feel, she should eclipse Peter, be a little crazy, joyful, a bit crazy.

MJ in the Raimi series just spent the whole time with Peter sad, they just spent the whole time being angsty or iffy at each other. We never got to see them truely happy, I would have loved a "Union Square"-esque scene in the original series.

8/10 times the Raimi films will knock over the others as a whole, the romance though? Honestly, no contest for me. That's Webb's thing, see 500 days of Summer, he understands relationships so well and it shows.

Gwen is flawed. I mean, Joker, all respect to you, but you were calling her character "silly" or "stubborn" or something along those lines the other day. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's a flaw, no?

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

I prefer the Raimi series over Webb but I think Emma's Gwen is better then Dunst MJ but that's because Emma is my wife.

I will say though, Raimi's Peter and MJ relationship were written better then Webb's Peter and Gwen. How many times did Webb's Peter ask Gwen how her folks were?