Justice League Real Talk - Where does the DCEU go from here? - Part 1

[Tra-El]

Yup.
A hard or soft reboot is a mistake.
You simply need to let directors do their thing and not meddle with it.
Get good talent and let them do this how they want.

If you must, take Snyder away from directing but keep him as producer...but either way, Stop Meddling With The Movies Warner Brothers.

Even before JL, the "softboot" discussions took place. The JL aftermath is finally here and this is what we could be faced with. Hard reboots just aren't necessary, especially when you have films like Wonder Woman (and WW2) Shazam and Aquaman having the chance to change the narrative and be great films. If those hit, then a softboot can be in order and salvage the path where we just came from. Not every aspect of this universe needs scrapped. They have the talent like Jenkins, Reeves and Wan to point things in the right direction. One movie at a time and the fiasco will be put to bed. The problem is the trust within' WB. If they hard reboot then guess what? There's no telling whether they can even get that right. Just capitalize on the mistakes.

 

[MadVillainy]

Just keep making the movies for now. Nobody that really matters much care about continuity issues or anything like that. Just recast where you wanna recast, change what you wanna change. No need for Flashpoint or anything like that

 

[DyeLorean]

The negativity surrounding this set of films is much bigger than the actual quality of the films. Which I think is even worse. They can still make better movies but it won't wash out the bad taste it has on audiences.

 

[DerekLake]

Yup.
A hard or soft reboot is a mistake.
You simply need to let directors do their thing and not meddle with it.
Get good talent and let them do this how they want.

If you must, take Snyder away from directing but keep him as producer...but either way, Stop Meddling With The Movies Warner Brothers.

I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks the core problem is WB's meddling just doesn't understand the gravity of JL's box office failure. JL failed because the GA by and large has not liked the MOS/BvS narrative that's been told. Snyder made the mistake of doubling down on the very things people did not like about MOS, confirming their overexaggerated criticisms of Superman's first outing. And the simple fact is that JL wasn't enough of a course correct, which showed in the trailers which, despite adding more comical characters, continued the same generally bleak atmosphere of the past two films. Now, I really liked MOS, but it was apparent even then that this general tone wasn't working.

Has WB's last minute meddling hurt several films? Yes. But that is due to WB letting directors just runaway with their ideas without any sort of real quality control to ensure what they are doing will actually draw a large enough audience. The problem isn't WB's meddling, it's their lack of planning and a clear vision that is appealing to the GA.

If WB keeps Snyder on in any capacity, it would mean they really don't get it.

 

[Jonwo]

LOL, this would be an uber mistake. One that would garner a much more emotional negative response from the fanbase like what yours is above. I think it's pretty clear now that WB was gearing up for this. The new DC Films banner and the idea of releasing that information to the public is all we needed to know once the dust settles. Everyone is so keen on hard rebooting when the problems within' the DCEU is and always will be linked to WB and their meddling. Wonder Woman proved that if they can just get talent in like Jenkins and let them pull through with their vision then the DCEU as a whole isn't the problem where it CAN be fixed and many things retconned where the audience wouldn't even notice. WB needs to look themselves in the mirror.

Hard rebooting and resting the franchise would only be an option had Wonder Woman not been a success. It's more likely they're going to take the Fox X-Men route of making films and take a small hit box office wise while they work on the next couple of films.

 

[thebatfan5194]

Maybe for Superman, Thor is a good comparison. While Thor hasn't had as much trouble as the DCEU, a new director with a strong vision/voice really did wonders for Thor's perception as a character. Maybe Superman needs the same. Not saying that he should go "off world", but maybe giving an acclaimed indie director the chance to make "their" Superman movie would be the thing Henry and the character need.

 

[Aquafinn90]

There is literally no reason to do a "soft-reboot" or a "hard-reboot"

They already did the "soft-reboot" with JL and everyone seems to be on board with this cast and the characters. It's the way the movies are being put together that needs a reboot.

 

[Aquafinn90]

Just keep making the movies for now. Nobody that really matters much care about continuity issues or anything like that. Just recast where you wanna recast, change what you wanna change. No need for Flashpoint or anything like that

Yeah count me out of that one. Not interested in continuity being all over the place. Even though Whedon already created an error with the Cyborg timeline.

 

[Frodo]

I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks the core problem is WB's meddling just doesn't understand the gravity of JL's box office failure. JL failed because the GA by and large has not liked the MOS/BvS narrative that's been told. Snyder made the mistake of doubling down on the very things people did not like about MOS, confirming their overexaggerated criticisms of Superman's first outing. And the simple fact is that JL wasn't enough of a course correct, which showed in the trailers which, despite adding more comical characters, continued the same generally bleak atmosphere of the past two films. Now, I really liked MOS, but it was apparent even then that this general tone wasn't working.

Has WB's last minute meddling hurt several films? Yes. But that is due to WB letting directors just runaway with their ideas without any sort of real quality control to ensure what they are doing will actually draw a large enough audience. The problem isn't WB's meddling, it's their lack of planning and a clear vision that is appealing to the GA.

If WB keeps Snyder on in any capacity, it would mean they really don't get it.

I agree. Fans are gonna have to realize this is show business, and that WB main consumers aren't diehardy comic fans but are the GA who could careless about shared universes.

Ultimately, if they aren't buying the product or are rejecting the product , WB can't , and won't just go on the same way to please comic book fans who liked the Snyderverse. What fans think is fair or unfair is irrelevant to the shareholders and bean counters.

Wonder woman is safe because she makes bank and she's popular. That said, I wouldn't count on Reeve's Batman being in the same universe as the DCEU despite the current public denials , and I certainly wouldn't count on Cavill's Superman to return when Superman eventually hits the big screen again.

 

[Tra-El]

There is literally no reason to do a "soft-reboot" or a "hard-reboot"

They already did the "soft-reboot" with JL and everyone seems to be on board with this cast and the characters. It's the way the movies are being put together that needs a reboot.

Agreed 100%.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

There is literally no reason to do a "soft-reboot" or a "hard-reboot"

They already did the "soft-reboot" with JL and everyone seems to be on board with this cast and the characters. It's the way the movies are being put together that needs a reboot.

Affleck (likely) leaving pretty much necessitates a "soft-reboot" on the Batman side of things. It wouldn't surprise me if some other actors (such as Cavill and Adams) want out too.

 

[MbJ]

We've seen Batman survive before with just changing actors without any in-universe justification, and audiences were fine with it. You can recast Batman. That's not the problem.

What is the potential problem going forward is whether or not Reeves plans to continue Snyder's take on Batman, IE a grizzled, tired veteran who has been doing this for 20 years. His top pick is reportedly Jake Gyllenhaal, and while I think he could absolutely nail the role, he's almost a full decade younger than Affleck, and absolutely looks it. I don't know if he'd be believable as bombed out middle aged Batman who has already been around the block a few times, so that might necessitate changing the conception of the character in this universe going forward.

 

[Micromind]

Affleck (likely) leaving pretty much necessitates a "soft-reboot" on the Batman side of things. It wouldn't surprise me if some other actors (such as Cavill and Adams) want out too.

No, just recast and continue, Cavill is still interested in playing the role, so is Amy Adams.

If tomorrow RDJ or Chris Evans decides to walk away, I'm sure Feige will just recast and continue, just like they did for Rhodey, granted that was a minor character but still and they recast earlier Hulk actor Edward Norton by Mark Ruffalo.

 

[MadVillainy]

We've seen Batman survive before with just changing actors without any in-universe justification, and audiences were fine with it. You can recast Batman. That's not the problem.

What is the potential problem going forward is whether or not Reeves plans to continue Snyder's take on Batman, IE a grizzled, tired veteran who has been doing this for 20 years. His top pick is reportedly Jake Gyllenhaal, and while I think he could absolutely nail the role, he's almost a full decade younger than Affleck, and absolutely looks it. I don't know if he'd be believable as bombed out middle aged Batman who has already been around the block a few times, so that might necessitate changing the conception of the character in this universe going forward.

Honestly Gyllenhaal still looks like he could be early 30s. So yeah even if you add Paulie Walnuts wings he'd look pretty young

and agreed with the first paragraph about changing actors

No, just recast and continue, Cavill is still interested in playing the role, so is Amy Adams.

If tomorrow RDJ or Chris Evans decides to walk away, I'm sure Feige will just recast and continue, just like they did for Rhodey, granted that was a minor character but still and they recast earlier Hulk actor Edward Norton by Mark Ruffalo.

99% sure Cavill and Adams are out, whether they want to be or not. Especially Adams.

 

[Micromind]

Honestly Gyllenhaal still looks like he could be early 30s. So yeah even if you add Paulie Walnuts wings he'd look pretty young

and agreed with the first paragraph about changing actors

Gyllenhaal is being actively considered is a rumor at this point backed by Campea. Not saying he is not on their radar, but it's possible that he is one of many other candidates.

 

[MadVillainy]

Gyllenhaal is being actively considered is a rumor at this point backed by Campea. Not saying he is not on their radar, but it's possible that he is one of many other candidates.

Ok...I wasn't disputing that. I was agreeing and adding to your point that he doesn't work for an aged/grizzled Batman

 

[Astro13Zombie]

Dump everyone, including Gal. Start fresh, no association with the current DCeU. That’s the only way to reboot. Either blow it all up, or weather the storm.

LOL that would be a huge mistake.
People love her.

A complete reboot isn’t needed at all.

 

[The_Root]

Maybe for Superman, Thor is a good comparison. While Thor hasn't had as much trouble as the DCEU, a new director with a strong vision/voice really did wonders for Thor's perception as a character. Maybe Superman needs the same. Not saying that he should go "off world", but maybe giving an acclaimed indie director the chance to make "their" Superman movie would be the thing Henry and the character need.

That's a great point. Would love to see it. There is no other DC movie I want more than a Cavill solo Superman film. Don't care who the villain is either.

 

[The_Root]

99% sure Cavill and Adams are out, whether they want to be or not. Especially Adams.

What makes you say that?

 

[Micromind]

Ok...I wasn't disputing that. I was agreeing and adding to your point that he doesn't work for an aged/grizzled Batman

Yes, I agree with that too.

Hopefully, they have some actors who are younger but closer to Affleck's age..now the question is.. if they choose someone like Anson Mount who is just one year younger than Affleck then, why are we going through all this trouble than just asking Affleck to accept a bigger paycheck and continue for 2 more movies ?

 

[Astro13Zombie]

There is literally no reason to do a "soft-reboot" or a "hard-reboot"

They already did the "soft-reboot" with JL and everyone seems to be on board with this cast and the characters. It's the way the movies are being put together that needs a reboot.

Okay but

Batman definitely needs a reboot

 

[Flemm]

Fans are gonna have to realize this is show business, and that WB main consumers aren't diehardy comic fans but are the GA who could careless about shared universes.

I'm surprised people still say this.

The same argument was made prior to Avengers, with the argument being that, while fans were very excited, the "general audiences" would not care. It would be like an Iron Man movie, at best.

Avengers' massive box office haul refuted that notion in resounding fashion, as has the box office performance of Marvel studios movies since that time, particularly in the overseas markets. The first Iron Man movie was really only a huge hit in the domestic market, for example.

Early Marvel studios box office, with the domestic and international split:

Iron Man: 318/266
Incredible Hulk: 134/128
First Avenger: 196/173
Thor: 181/268
Iron Man 2: 312/311

Avengers: 623/895 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whether you look at the US or the international box office, there is no explanation other than simply that the audience did, in fact, care.

The domestic box office for JL basically confirms it also, in reverse, because the negative reception of the early DCEU movies seems to have really hurt JL's box office in the domestic market. Perhaps less in the overseas markets, but I don't think the film is going to match the 542M overseas total of BvS.

So, the "general audiences" obviously care, but they don't *automatically* care.

It has to be done right.

 

[MadVillainy]

What makes you say that?

I've said it before

I don't think they'll make a MoS2. There's no evidence for a large desire of people to see it
I also don't think WB/DC is going to do any team up movies anytime soon after the underperformance of JL and BvS

Cavill has been apart of 3 box office under-performers. Why would they bring him back logically? Remove your like for him as an answer and think about it. He's the face of the Superman franchise and the Superman franchise is going left field. Why continue with an actor that audiences haven't take too?

Adams I think she has better things to do. Her career is fuego without Lois Lane.

Yes, I agree with that too.

Hopefully, they have some actors who are younger but closer to Affleck's age..now the question is.. if they choose someone like Anson Mount who is just one year younger than Affleck then, why are we going through all this trouble than just asking Affleck to accept a bigger paycheck and continue for 2 more movies ?

They won't choose someone like Anson Mount.

And Affleck not doing anymore I dont think has to do with money at all.
Since signing on to Batman in 2013:
-He has separated and filed for divorce from the mother of his children
-His director career took a hit (he'll bounce back)
-He entered rehab for a second time
-He's been accused 2 times of sexual misconduct. And another time of knowing about Weinstein but doing nothing about it
-And to top all that off the movie wasn't received that well harking back to the earlier days of his career that he fought so hard to improve. If the movies were beloved I'm sure he would stay off for at least a couple more movies

Not saying getting cast as Batman caused those things. But they just happened all after.

I think he thinks that he needs to get his life right professionally and personally. And I think he doesn't think that's possible while playing Batman. Ive said I think he'll take a step back from Hollywood for like 2-3 years I always thought playing Batman was a step back for him.

And the other reason that maybe you or someone else said, he's just getting old. It's hard to get as ripped as he did for BvS and they want him to do that for 3 Batman movies, JL movies, and maybe other appearances? It's hard to do that at 20, can't even imagine trying to do it at 45 without the help of good ole Uncle Roy-d. Hugh Jackman said that was one of the reasons he stopped playing Wolverine. You can get away with casting an older actor for stuff like Iron Man or Hulk which don't require you to be jacked and when so much of the performance/action can be done by another mo-cap guy, but for something like Batman?

But I think it's primarily his personal life

 

[WBwins]

Whats likely to happen is a gradual Phase out of the Snyderverse.
Heres how it works.

WB is going to focus A LOT on the Batman cinematic universe.Theyve already begun prepping for this probably because they knew JL was a bomb.

Now this Batman cinematic universe will be in a completely different continuity from thd Snyderverse.Lets call this new DCEU Continuity:The Reeveverse.

Every New DC Film we see from now on will be in the Reeveverse.

The WW trilogy,SS trilogy and posdible Aquaman trilogy will however continue to exist in the Snyderverse.Once this trilogies are over.It marks the end of the Snyderverse.Their slots will be taken over by films set in the Reeveverse.

Superman,Flash,GL will be rebooted in the Reeveverse eventualky.When that happens,Expect to see a JL reboot with this characters.

 

[TheGDBatman]

Whats likely to happen is a gradual Phase out of the Snyderverse.
Heres how it works.

WB is going to focus A LOT on the Batman cinematic universe.Theyve already begun prepping for this probably because they knew JL was a bomb.

Now this Batman cinematic universe will be in a completely different continuity from thd Snyderverse.Lets call this new DCEU Continuity:The Reeveverse.

Every New DC Film we see from now on will be in the Reeveverse.

The WW trilogy,SS trilogy and posdible Aquaman trilogy will however continue to exist in the Snyderverse.Once this trilogies are over.It marks the end of the Snyderverse.Their slots will be taken over by films set in the Reeveverse.

Superman,Flash,GL will be rebooted in the Reeveverse eventualky.When that happens,Expect to see a JL reboot with this characters.

I don't see this happening. If anything, they will do soft reboots, maintain a majority of the cast, and clean up their process. They'll probably avoid referencing stuff from the Snyderverse, but keep on moving along. You don't reboot characters like the Flash after 1 mediocre movie. That wouldn't make any sense, especially when the GA seems to enjoy him.