Justice League Real Talk - Where does the DCEU go from here? - Part 2

[spider-neil]

It's because Marvel has Feige, a figurehead that loves and knows these characters intimately, and will fight for them. He threatened to quit Marvel Studios after the Disney CEO kept insisting that Civil War not have any of the Avengers in it because it was ballooning the budget. DC needs someone like that. I'd have thought Geoff would have been able to fill that role, but he's been absent.

You'd think WB would back up the money truck for Feige. Strengthening them and weakening their rivals in one go. Even if they play him 10 million a year it would potentially worth the money.

 

[Darepool]

It's because Marvel has Feige, a figurehead that loves and knows these characters intimately, and will fight for them. He threatened to quit Marvel Studios after the Disney CEO kept insisting that Civil War not have any of the Avengers in it because it was ballooning the budget. DC needs someone like that. I'd have thought Geoff would have been able to fill that role, but he's been absent.

It was actually the Marvel CEO Ike Perlmutter. He complained to Disney Studio head Alan Horn, who he now deals with directly. Ike is out of the picture.

 

[Darepool]

You'd think WB would back up the money truck for Feige. Strengthening them and weakening their rivals in one go. Even if they play him 10 million a year it would potentially worth the money.

10 million a year?

I think Feige likely makes more then that now. He actually runs a studio.

 

[Binker]

I’d still love if they sold the properties. Put them in capable hands, WB has shown they aren’t qualified in the past 4 years.

They can't. WB can't sell DC, because DC IS WB.

Just soft reboot; continues the DCEU, but offers a new beginning if you do what I say and set all the films fivew years after JL. Hell, use Flashpoint if you want to pull a "Abrams Star Trek" for your DCEU. Either way, No Reboot. Its not bad as ASM or Spidey 4 or even FF.

 

[spider-neil]

10 million a year?

I think Feige likely makes more then that now. He actually runs a studio.

Feige gets 10m a year right now? Wow. Okay, maybe WB should just right him a blank cheque to jump ship.

 

[markjoedelonge]

It was actually the Marvel CEO Ike Perlmutter. He complained to Disney Studio head Alan Horn, who he now deals with directly. Ike is out of the picture.

Oh right. But the point still stands. He stood up to the Marvel CEO. That requires huge balls.

 

[Binker]

I'd have thought Geoff would have been able to fill that role, but he's been absent.

That's because Geoff had been given direct control after BvS, but couldn't really do anything he could to any DC movie, including JL, as the wheels had already started. Post-JL, any DC would be under his control.

The story of Johns is similar to Feige; both started at the beginning, and through this and that, gain more creative control. Feige was there as far back as X-Men, and even he couldn't stop Stop from not releasing the R-rated Daredevil movie. Johns was on board Green Lantern, but it wasn't his fault GL tanked.

With full control, I want to see what Johns does. The truth of whether he could do anything to fix/save/improve the DCEU remains to be fully seen.

 

[Darepool]

Feige gets 10m a year right now? Wow. Okay, maybe WB should just right him a blank cheque to jump ship.

Either way, 10 million feels like small fry, but maybe it's less. Though I get the feeling he's got all kinds of bonuses and performance clauses in his contract..

 

[Darepool]

Oh right. But the point still stands. He stood up to the Marvel CEO. That requires huge balls.

I agree it was a bold move, but he definitely had leverage.

 

[spider-neil]

Either way, 10 million feels like small fry, but maybe it's less. Though I get the feeling he's got all kinds of bonuses and performance clauses in his contract..

I wonder if Feige is going to be headhunted by a major studio

 

[Darepool]

I wonder if Feige is going to be headhunted by a major studio

That makes sense, the question is would he be happier or more fulfilled then he is now? Huge comic fan who has the keys to the kingdom. He must feel like the kid in a candy store. Eventually things will come to an end but I don't think it'll be anytime soon.

 

[Binker]

If this idea with Feige ever happened (fanboy wish fullfillment), why couldn't he do both?

Besides, with what I said about Johns, you can also add that Feige and Johns are friends, so they must be helping each other in some way.

 

[FunkMiller]

I enjoy you, M1ll3r. You do fine work. But this right here is absolutely wrong.

Oh, that’s more than fair enough. I’m happy to concede that this is a point of view a lot of Superman fans don’t share. It’s not particularly nuanced, and generalises things somewhat. However, I make the point, because of the single failure recently to ‘get’ why Superman is a hero. There seems to be an element of shame at the idea of Clark Kent, and that annoys the crap out of me. But there is no Superman without Clark Kent, and there never will be. Without Clark you just get Kal-El, which would be incredibly boring on every single level.

 

[Darepool]

If this idea with Feige ever happened (fanboy wish fullfillment), why couldn't he do both?

Besides, with what I said about Johns, you can also add that Feige and Johns are friends, so they must be helping each other in some way.

I'm sure Johns would be asking Feige for advice or even opinions if he's playing a similar role at DC, although the set-ups and circumstances are vastly different at the respective studios.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I enjoy you, M1ll3r. You do fine work. But this right here is absolutely wrong.

There is Superman, there is the Clark Kent that the public sees and then there is the real Clark Kent, that people like Lois, Martha and those closest to him see.

 

[spider-neil]

I'm sure Johns would be asking Feige for advice or even opinions if he's playing a similar role at DC, although the set-ups and circumstances are vastly different at the respective studios.

Competition is good. If Marvel crush DC, that's not a good thing.
Marvel will get complacent and start releasing substandard movies.
Competition from DC will push Marvel which will push DC.
Hopefully, Feige helps out his friend.

 

[Darepool]

Competition is good. If Marvel crush DC, that's not a good thing.
Marvel will get complacent and start releasing substandard movies.
Competition from DC will push Marvel which will push DC.
Hopefully, Feige helps out his friend.

Agreed

I would.

 

[FunkMiller]

There is Superman, there is the Clark Kent that the public sees and then there is the real Clark Kent, that people like Lois, Martha and those closest to him see.

And it’s the real Clark I’m referring to. I just don’t believe you can do Superman properly, if you don’t do Clark properly, because his upbringing and humanity shape who and what Superman is. That’s why MoS screwed up so badly with Jonathan Kent’s ‘**** ‘em, stay secret’ speech and the daddy killing tornado. You need to explore the values Clark grows up with, so that you can understand why he does what he does in later life when he fully comes into his birthright. Superman’s inherent goodness is nurture, not nature. The conflict and tension that exists between the farm boy and the god is where you get the good character drama, IMO.

 

[titansupes]

There is Superman, there is the Clark Kent that the public sees and then there is the real Clark Kent, that people like Lois, Martha and those closest to him see.

Yeah, but those aren't three distinct personas. "Real Clark" is Superman talking to his loved ones, the people who know his secret.

And it’s the real Clark I’m referring to. I just don’t believe you can do Superman properly, if you don’t do Clark properly, because his upbringing and humanity shape who and what Superman is. That’s why MoS screwed up so badly with Jonathan Kent’s ‘**** ‘em, stay secret’ speech and the daddy killing tornado. You need to explore the values Clark grows up with, so that you can understand why he does what he does in later life when he fully comes into his birthright. Superman’s inherent goodness is nurture, not nature.The conflict and tension that exists between the farm boy and the god is where you get the good character drama, IMO.

Yes and no-- The "Real Clark" ceases to exist once he becomes Superman, because he evolves into Superman. The tri-personality thing, while I can handle it much better than "Clark's real, Superman's fake"... it just weakens the story. It makes Superman a public facade which just doesn't ring true to me.

 

[titansupes]

Oh, that’s more than fair enough. I’m happy to concede that this is a point of view a lot of Superman fans don’t share. It’s not particularly nuanced, and generalises things somewhat. However, I make the point, because of the single failure recently to ‘get’ why Superman is a hero. There seems to be an element of shame at the idea of Clark Kent, and that annoys the crap out of me. But there is no Superman without Clark Kent, and there never will be. Without Clark you just get Kal-El, which would be incredibly boring on every single level.

Oops, sorry, I missed this-- Yep, we agree in the broadstrokes.

I'm very surprised that filmmakers (and even comics for a long time) haven't really exploited how much depth their is to the fact that he chooses to put on glasses and make-believe he's human. There's so much you can do with it all, and they're leaving it on the table.

 

[FunkMiller]

Yeah, but those aren't three distinct personas. "Real Clark" is Superman talking to his loved ones, the people who know his secret.

Yes and no-- The "Real Clark" ceases to exist once he becomes Superman, because he evolves into Superman. The tri-personality thing, while I can handle it, just weakens the story.

I don’t think you cram Superman into the distinct personalities that define Bruce. Mainly due the fact that Clark isn’t psychologically damaged like Batman. Nolan did such a damn good job with Batman because he loves exploring fractured personalities.

Clark’s ‘identities’ are more fluid, yeah? They inform and influence one another. I think it’s vital to make sure the Clark side is not forgotten in favour of the Kal-El side, but I entirely get your point that forcing a strong separation down those lines is wrong for the character. He’s more (and I hate this word, but I think it applies here) holistic in terms of character than that.

It’s possibly why I always find it fascinating when Batman and Superman are together, because it brings into sharp relief just how different they are as people because of their life experiences, but how similar they are despite those experiences.

Oops, sorry, I missed this-- Yep, we agree in the broadstrokes.

I'm very surprised that filmmakers (and even comics for a long time) haven't really exploited how much depth their is to the fact that he chooses to put on glasses and make-believe he's human. There's so much you can do with it all, and they're leaving it on the table.

Yes! That’s it exactly. I push back as hard as I can on anyone who thinks Clark Kent is dumb, because there’s so much rich storytelling to be had by both acknowledging and celebrating that aspect of Superman, and the issues it throws up for him.

 

[Gu3ree]

I'm losing hope.

 

[FunkMiller]

They can't. WB can't sell DC, because DC IS WB.

Of course they can. They won’t, of course - but there’s nothing stopping the holder of an IP from selling or licensing that IP to any third party, providing all stakeholders are in agreement.

DC is a subsidiary of WB, which in turn is a division of Time Warner. Subsidiaries can be bought and sold. After all, DC Comics (or NPP as it officially was) was bought by Kinney National, which later became Warner.

 

[markjoedelonge]

And it’s the real Clark I’m referring to. I just don’t believe you can do Superman properly, if you don’t do Clark properly, because his upbringing and humanity shape who and what Superman is. That’s why MoS screwed up so badly with Jonathan Kent’s ‘**** ‘em, stay secret’ speech and the daddy killing tornado. You need to explore the values Clark grows up with, so that you can understand why he does what he does in later life when he fully comes into his birthright. Superman’s inherent goodness is nurture, not nature. The conflict and tension that exists between the farm boy and the god is where you get the good character drama, IMO.

True, but personally I've always felt that Clark choosing to trust humanity in spite of his dad's speech spoke volumes about the type of person he is, rather than having his dad spell out the values for him and the audience.

 

[FunkMiller]

True, but personally I've always felt that Clark choosing to trust humanity in spite of his dad's speech spoke volumes about the type of person he is, rather than having his dad spell out the values for him and the audience.

I get you, but to me, if you’re describing something involving Jonathan Kent & Superman, and you’re using the phrase ‘in spite of his dad’ in any context, it means someone has missed the point hugely. The type of person Clark is, is formed by the things he is taught by his parents. MoS completely undercuts that, by essentially saying that the parent is wrong, and Kal-El knows the score completely independent of any influence, and without his father’s guidance.

Eurgh.