The Dark Knight Rises Riddle Me This: The Riddler Characterization Thread

[Infinity9999x]

Interesting ideas, Infinity, so a few constructive (I hope) criticisms are in order: First of all, I take issue with referring to any 45-year-old actor as "youngerish." Second, while framing Bruce might indeed make for an interesting dynamic, I would rather let the whole Batman-as-a-fugitive thing play out on its own; they don't need to make Bruce a fugitive too in order to make it more dramatic or epic or complex. Third, your take on Nygma as a stock market aficianado who runs black market schemes under the table sounds like applying the Nolan-Scarecrow set-up to Riddler, which seems IMO to make Riddler a secondary villain who works behind the scenes for most of the story, rather than the primary like Joker was. I'd rather see Nygma as the main threat.

While Depp is older, he could pass for someone who's ten years younger then he is, so that's why I put that there. But I do think he could play an older Riddler as well (of course, if I had my druthers, I'd have an older creepier Riddler played by Hugh Laurie).

And I actually did think about the framing Bruce thing, because I thought it might be a bit too much when added onto the Batman on the run as well. I wanted to make Riddler kind of an anti-Wayne in this idea, so I wanted him to oppose Wayne on both sides of the coin, in the streets and in society.

I didn't think about the Scarecrow comparison, but now that you bring it up they are quite similar. I think what I would do to differentiate them is really play up the Riddler's genius. I would emphasize how intelligent this kid is, and maybe show it by, instead of him framing Wayne for murder, start to tie him up in small legal issues, until he gets Wayne tossed off his own estate, penniless. At the same time, I'd have the heists and crimes he pulls off be increasingly elaborate, but I would also make sure that he always has to leave clues. I'd still have him be called Nygma, but he wouldn't tell the world that the Riddler is Nygma, he would always leave his clues with the signature of the "Riddler."

Of course, because he's such a narcissist, I would have his downfall be because he couldn't help but leave some connection to himself, because he wants people to know he's the genius crime lord after all.

 

[StorminNorman]

Hugh Laurie's Riddler can be seen on House Monday's on Fox.

Not to say its bad, I love House, but I want something new and fresh. I haven't seen Depp play a Riddler like character, I have seen Laurie.

 

[CaptainClown]

Sleepy Hallow?

 

[StorminNorman]

Sleepy Hallow?

I've never seen it. It is also ten years old and no one remembers Johnny Depp as that guy from Sleepy Hollow.

Hugh Laurie, in America, is only that guy from House.

The two are as incomparable as water to a horse's colon.

 

[CaptainClown]

This he plays an intellectual not really a prime example

 

[.:OPAZO:.]

Just made my first Batman 3 poster with Johnny Deep as the Riddler!
Be nice and don't hate lol! t:
give me sum feedback! next up is Clive Owen as Black Mask! ​

 

[Rasputin911]

^Pretty good. I like the dark tone. Though i'd like to see him wearing dark suits with green "trim" (ties, shirts, glasses, jewelry, etc.) since Nolan goes for realistic.

I'm curious as to who people think would be the other villain that would compliment Riddler the most? I'm leaning Penguin or Scarecrow. I want to see more alliances between rogues. We didn't get that in TDK, since Joker basically just owned all the other crime lords.

 

[.:OPAZO:.]

^Pretty good. I like the dark tone. Though i'd like to see him wearing dark suits with green "trim" (ties, shirts, glasses, jewelry, etc.) since Nolan goes for realistic.

I'm curious as to who people think would be the other villain that would compliment Riddler the most? I'm leaning Penguin or Scarecrow. I want to see more alliances between rogues. We didn't get that in TDK, since Joker basically just owned all the other crime lords.

Thanks man,
and on Batman 3 I want the lead villain to be the Riddler and the other villain should be Black Mask.

and on Batman 4 if it happends it should be the Peinguin and Firefly

 

[kid dropper]

Hugh Laurie's Riddler can be seen on House Monday's on Fox.

Not to say its bad, I love House, but I want something new and fresh. I haven't seen Depp play a Riddler like character, I have seen Laurie.

No ****. he's even got a cane and everything. I remember a guy suggesting him or Tony "Monk" Shaloub. real interesting, daring stuff.It's akin to casting Gandolfini as Maroni.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

It's a nice idea, but the thing is, people dont understand that we dont usually see the villains origin in Nolan's films, barring two face because that is a different situation. Thats why i dont get all these drastic revamps. Nolan leaves his villains' histories ambiguous because it fits his vision of having the air of reality. I like it this way, because while nolan dosent say ras is immortal, i can believe that he might be. i can believe that nolans scarecrow has the same backstory as the comics.

See, this sorta thing works for guys like Joker and Ra's, because they are more effective when their past is mysterious. We get little hints at it, Ra's story about his lost love, Jokers scar stories.

But with Riddler we need to see his progression, his descent into madness if you will. We need to see what drives this guy IMO. I don't think he would be as interesting or a effective villain if he just appeared out of no where. Thats why i really like the Fed route, he starts off as a by the book, annoyances, then we actually see him fall deeper and deeper into a obsessive madness. I think it would be awesome to see that play out on the big screen, especially with someone like Nolan helming it.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Hugh Laurie's Riddler can be seen on House Monday's on Fox.

Not to say its bad, I love House, but I want something new and fresh. I haven't seen Depp play a Riddler like character, I have seen Laurie.

I wouldn't want Laurie to play Nygma the way he plays House. I'd want him to take more of a obsessed psychotic approach. I'd want him to be creepier, someone who can be at once charming and then as frightening as a horror movie monster. Laurie is a good enough actor that I believe he wouldn't just repeat a performance he's already doing, do you honestly expect he'd just act like House and then go "okay, there ya go, that's my Riddler" I think that's an insult to his ability. We know the guy's a method actor, so I believe that he would work very hard to create a new persona for Nygma.

 

[StorminNorman]

This he plays an intellectual not really a prime example

I, well actually you, are missing something here.

 

[StorminNorman]

No ****. he's even got a cane and everything. I remember a guy suggesting him or Tony "Monk" Shaloub. real interesting, daring stuff.It's akin to casting Gandolfini as Maroni.

Gandolfini as Maroni would of worked not because its original, but because its a bit role and thus his perception of being a crime boss helps the character - not takes away from the performance.

It would be like casting Michael Caine as Alfred, or Freeman as Fox - not surprising, but incredibly and importantly solid.

A Riddler type character, however, would need to be bigger than that.

 

[StorminNorman]

I wouldn't want Laurie to play Nygma the way he plays House. I'd want him to take more of a obsessed psychotic approach.

Because House...isn't...an obsessed psychotic? Not murder-ey psychotic, but certainly different.

I'd want him to be creepier, someone who can be at once charming and then as frightening as a horror movie monster.

The Riddler should never be as frightening as a horror movie monster, though House has done charming and something resembling criminal mastermind throughout the show.

Laurie is a good enough actor that I believe he wouldn't just repeat a performance he's already doing, do you honestly expect he'd just act like House and then go "okay, there ya go, that's my Riddler" I think that's an insult to his ability. We know the guy's a method actor, so I believe that he would work very hard to create a new persona for Nygma.

Laurie's a great actor, I am not doubting that, but his character of House is - again - too similar to the Riddler and it is the only role American audiences know him from (well that and the dad from Stuart Little). House is a brilliant mind who plays by his own rules, not afraid to break the law that is obsessed with Riddles - if one would to describe the Riddler, it would be very similar.

Depp's a great actor, but if I was casting say a pirate themed villain for Batman, I wouldn't cast him either.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Because House...isn't...an obsessed psychotic? Not murder-ey psychotic, but certainly different.



The Riddler should never be as frightening as a horror movie monster, though House has done charming and something resembling criminal mastermind throughout the show.



Laurie's a great actor, I am not doubting that, but his character of House is - again - too similar to the Riddler and it is the only role American audiences know him from (well that and the dad from Stuart Little). House is a brilliant mind who plays by his own rules, not afraid to break the law that is obsessed with Riddles - if one would to describe the Riddler, it would be very similar.

Depp's a great actor, but if I was casting say a pirate themed villain for Batman, I wouldn't cast him either.

I can see your point, I guess for me, when it comes down to it, if Laurie ever did audition for the role, and he did the best job, then I want him cast. I want the best man for the job regardless of what they played before that role.

And you forgot that he was also in 101 Dalmatians

 

[REDophile]

Depp could do well as Riddler if he was cast. Its ironic, though, that he was never in either of his buddy Tim Burton's Batman movies. But back than Michael Keaton was the guy Burton always cast as the lead like he does with Depp now.

 

[DawnWarrior]

Just made my first Batman 3 poster with Johnny Deep as the Riddler!​

Be nice and don't hate lol! t:
give me sum feedback! next up is Clive Owen as Black Mask! ​

Bit of a gripe, so bear with me: Has Depp ever worn that beard for a role (besides Jack Sparrow, which also involved eyeliner)? I see him wearing it all the time in interviews, but in all his other movies he shaves it off (Sleepy Hollow, Sweeny Todd, Finding Neverland, Willy Wonka). And I feel like Nygma ought to be clean shaven.

 

[DawnWarrior]

Somebody else was talking about exactly how many people Riddler should be allowed to kill in the course of the plot, what's too many and such. If we're going with the Nygma-as-fed thing where he creates the Riddler persona to battle Batman, then I see the moment where he actually does kill somebody should be a big moment. Like it seems Nygma has gone too far, and he starts having second thoughts, but his ego gets the best of him and he powers on through going after Batman harder than ever to prove that he's the smartest one there is, and we see just how crazy he's become.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Somebody else was talking about exactly how many people Riddler should be allowed to kill in the course of the plot, what's too many and such. If we're going with the Nygma-as-fed thing where he creates the Riddler persona to battle Batman, then I see the moment where he actually does kill somebody should be a big moment. Like it seems Nygma has gone too far, and he starts having second thoughts, but his ego gets the best of him and he powers on through going after Batman harder than ever to prove that he's the smartest one there is, and we see just how crazy he's become.

Yea that could be cool. As i've said before, I want to see him descend from a goody two shoes fed to a an obsessive phychotic. Seeing the actual moment he snaps, represented by him killing someone could be cool.

But as someone else said, he shouldn't take responsibility for the deaths that are caused by his traps and what not. He is so deluded that he would blame Batman for not saving them, maybe feeling let down by Batman. "I thought you would be my greatest test Batman, obviously not!" or something along those lines.

 

[ronny]

You're right, how dare we have a man coincidentally called Edward Nigma in a world where a man dresses up as a flying bat and a japanese/chinese/american called Ra's Al Ghul of all things abound!

The name Nygma, as his original name, cheapens the character.It reduces him to a gimmick rater than a rounded creation with deep-rooted motivations and depth.
If you say: "His name is E. Nygma and he leaves riddles". Then you can't tell me that this works.
It's so tawdry and indecent. Yes, just like Julian Day and Victor Fries.

 

[kid dropper]

Gandolfini as Maroni would of worked not because its original, but because its a bit role and thus his perception of being a crime boss helps the character - not takes away from the performance.

It would be like casting Michael Caine as Alfred, or Freeman as Fox - not surprising, but incredibly and importantly solid.

A Riddler type character, however, would need to be bigger than that.

Yeh but Bale wouldve had to seriously hit the gym in order to dangle Gandolfini off of a fire escape.

 

[StorminNorman]

Yeh but Bale wouldve had to seriously hit the gym in order to dangle Gandolfini off of a fire escape.

t:

 

[ronny]

If Riddler kills someone it should be Mr. Reese.

 

[Mindreaper21]

If Riddler kills someone it should be Mr. Reese.

yep, thats what I said t:. I'm thinking he should trap him in a hole and fill it with water everytime he fails to give the correct answer to a riddle. Then when Reese is dead, send his body down the river with a riddle taped inside of his mouth for Gordon to find.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Yeh but Bale wouldve had to seriously hit the gym in order to dangle Gandolfini off of a fire escape.

Then I say we have Batman strap him into a metal suit, and use one of those magnetized construction vehicles on him.