The Dark Knight Rises Riddle Me This: The Riddler Characterization Thread

[Jahu-Momus]

Besides, Nolan has way more options in terms of a story. If it's something that a bunch of people are saying on an internet forum, especially about character development, it probably won't be the final result. He's too talented a director to do something we all expect and/or heard of.

 

[ronny]

No, I'm against it because as of now, I'd rather have a more experienced actor play the main antagonist of the next Bat-film. The guy in TDK doesn't have the kind of presence I'd like in that magnitude of villain. Now, to be fair, if Nolan sees something in him that I don't (since I've only seen him for a few minutes of screentime) then more power to him. But as of now, I'd rather not have Mr. Reese for the Riddler.

I just think that if Harto could ellicit such revulsion and annoyance from the audience, then he could be a great Riddler.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

I wasn't annoyed at him. I was amused at times and at others I pitied him, like when he got the verbal abuse treatment from Fox. I also thought he was really scared and concerned when he was going on TV, and not because of the money. He was, after all, seeing the city attacked, and he got the courage necessary to dismiss Fox's threats. What he was doing was wrong, but understandable, to a point. I certainly didn't hate it. As long as the Joker made that call to television, I didn't have a reason to hate the guy. He never got a chance to be a real threat.

 

[itsthebatman]

I wasn't annoyed at him. I was amused at times and at others I pitied him, like when he got the verbal abuse treatment from Fox. I also thought he was really scared and concerned when he was going on TV, and not because of the money. He was, after all, seeing the city attacked, and he got the courage necessary to dismiss Fox's threats. What he was doing was wrong, but understandable, to a point. I certainly didn't hate it. As long as the Joker made that call to television, I didn't have a reason to hate the guy. He never got a chance to be a real threat.

How ya getting on with that Cylon detector?

 

[Two-Face]

I just think that if Harto could ellicit such revulsion and annoyance from the audience, then he could be a great Riddler.

Reese isn't The Riddler.

 

[ronny]

Reese isn't The Riddler.

He could be. And if he was I genuinely feel that we'd see a great performance.

 

[Two-Face]

He could be. And if he was I genuinely feel that we'd see a great performance.

It will be boring, cheesy, predictable etc...

 

[RustyCage]

He could be. And if he was I genuinely feel that we'd see a great performance.

Why do you feel that way exactly?

 

[ronny]

Why do you feel that way exactly?

Because I was very impressed with Joshua Harto and feel that, given a larger role, he could really surprise people.

 

[RustyCage]

Because I was very impressed with Joshua Harto and feel that, given a larger role, he could really surprise people.

Were you impressed by the way he didn't remotely think things through and got downright owned by Fox? Having such a vapor-thin mind isn't very Riddler-esque if you ask me..

And what does he do after that? He goes on TV and exposes himself to the Joker, who owns him as well. The guy is a joke, ronny. He nearly died because of his stupidity. Do you really think of the Riddler as someone who makes such dumb choices?

 

[Jozef]

I dont see why people think reese is to wimpy to be the riddler, especially when he fits the profile for a would be villian who isnt hands own who feels the need to hide behind a costume alias. his close encounter with the joker could be the thing that inspires him to do so.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

How ya getting on with that Cylon detector?

Look, it's not magic, it's science.
Do you have something to say in the matter at hand?

 

[GaiusBaltar]

I dont see why people think reese is to wimpy to be the riddler, especially when he fits the profile for a would be villian who isnt hands own who feels the need to hide behind a costume alias. his close encounter with the joker could be the thing that inspires him to do so.

'Wimpy¡ is one thing. 'Not good planning ahead' and 'just plain stupid' is another. A stupid Riddler who doesn't plan for contigencies is... well, not The Riddler.

besides... close encounter??

 

[Jozef]

'Wimpy¡ is one thing. 'Not good planning ahead' and 'just plain stupid' is another. A stupid Riddler who doesn't plan for contigencies is... well, not The Riddler.

besides... close encounter??

like heroes villains have origins too, and the events in the dark knight can be part of the development that creates the riddler persona. rarely do we get to see a villain's character before we even know he will become a villain. Usually it all happens in the same movie. 20 minutes of him before he becomes a bad guy, then 100 minutes of him being a villain, and ontop of that we know who he is going to become. maybe nolan is being slick allowing us to see a possible villain and giving him some character development before we have any idea who he is.

 

[RustyCage]

like heroes villains have origins too, and the events in the dark knight can be part of the development that creates the riddler persona. rarely do we get to see a villain's character before we even know he will become a villain. Usually it all happens in the same movie. 20 minutes of him before he becomes a bad guy, then 100 minutes of him being a villain, and ontop of that we know who he is going to become. maybe nolan is being slick allowing us to see a possible villain and giving him some character development before we have any idea who he is.

It's not a matter of a person 'becoming a bad guy'. It's a matter of a STUPID person magically becoming smart.

 

[Jozef]

It's not a matter of a person 'becoming a bad guy'. It's a matter of a STUPID person magically becoming smart.

stupid people dont work for wayne enterprises and are able to find out batman's identity.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

Yes, they do. TDK was proof of that. It was Nolan's way of saying: "this secret is too big, and **** happens, so we're gonna see these characters react to that and try to handle it".

No matter how you put it, that was not a smart character. It didn't have one single hint of it. You either have him go through a magical intellect enhancement, or you make him a smart guy that was posing as a stupid one as a part of a really big, intricate plan. And to make such man of him would require the worst kind of suspension of disbelief from the audience: to consider everything they saw before to be utterly pointless.

 

[Jozef]

Yes, they are. TDK is proof of that. It was Nolan's way of saying: "this secret is too big, and **** happens, so we're gonna see these characters react to that and try to handle it".

No matter how you put it, that was not a smart character. It didn't have one single hint of it. You either have him go through a magical intellect enhancement, or you make him a smart guy that was posing as a stupid one as a part of a really big, intricate plan. And to make such man of him would require the worst kind of suspension of disbelief from the audience: to consider everything they saw before to be utterly pointless.

I think youre overestimating the riddlers so called intelligence a little too much. If you want you can say the majority of villains are smart and stupid at the same time, a better statement is to say they have misplaced intelligence and are controlled by their own impulses even if they dont make sense to anyone else. Put it this way, if the riddler was as smart as you want him to be, the last thing he would do is commit a crime and intentionally leave clues that could incriminate him.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

Overestimate the Riddler's intelligence?

No, no, wait, it didn't type it write... the Riddler's "so called" intelligence??

Riddler's only flaw, his OCD for leaving clues, and you label it as an intelligence deficiency. ... Really.

I give up. I cannot do this. We're obviously not talking about the same character. Yes, Reese can be your version of the Riddler, any time of the day. Good thing Nolan is in charge.

 

[skiddyboy]

Were you impressed by the way he didn't remotely think things through and got downright owned by Fox? Having such a vapor-thin mind isn't very Riddler-esque if you ask me..

And what does he do after that? He goes on TV and exposes himself to the Joker, who owns him as well. The guy is a joke, ronny. He nearly died because of his stupidity. Do you really think of the Riddler as someone who makes such dumb choices?

If You think that Nolan would make such a weak character the Roddler you are dreaming.
Give Chris some credit, why would someone who is supposed to have a greater intellect than Batman, resort to simple blackmail???

I totally agree with what Rustycage has said.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Knowledge is the Riddlers power.

 

[Two-Face]

Riddler wouldn't ask for $10m a year then gets his ass owned by one only Freeman I mean Fox after that he goes on a TV talk show ID Bruce is Batman. The Riddler is too smart for those things.

 

[Jozef]

You guys should know the current incarnation of the riddler in the comics or wherever most likely will not be the direction nolan goes in without drastic changes. Also youre not allowing a transition period in character development. We dont know the time gap between the dark knight and the 3rd movie, so where the riddler would take matters in his own hand to get 10 million, 3 or 4 years prior as reese he might not of. Now personally I dont want reese as the riddler either, but you cant ignore theres enough evidence there to believe he might become the riddler whether it became the case or not. Theres no "my riddler" since im just speculating and wont be dissapointed if reese doesnt become the riddler.

 

[RustyCage]

Riddler wouldn't ask for $10m a year then gets his ass owned by one only Freeman I mean Fox after that he goes on a TV talk show ID Bruce is Batman. The Riddler is too smart for those things.

Not only is he too smart for it, but if the Riddler knew Batman's identity, he wouldn't reveal it to the world, because it would make the knowledge worthless to him. And knowledge is what he values, not money. Allow me to reference one of my favorite Riddler moments:

I think that definitively shuts Reese down. It's just a name that was turned into an out-of-hand gimmick.

 

[Jozef]

Not only is he too smart for it, but if the Riddler knew Batman's identity, he wouldn't reveal it to the world, because it would make the knowledge worthless to him. And knowledge is what he values, not money. Allow me to reference one of my favorite Riddler moments:

I think that definitively shuts Reese down. It's just a name that was turned into an out-of-hand gimmick.

Being as though the DCU and Nolanverse are 2 different continuities, that panel is a moot point. When adding Nolanverse realism into the equation, knowing a millionaires secret is the perfect chance to gain profit from a possible version of the riddler.