Riots in Missouri - Part 1

[DarthSkywalker]

Can every cop who's attacked tell that the altercation won't be life- or serious injury-threatening? What was he being attacked with, a noodle?

Although…I do feel that there needs to be some better stress/combat training and conditioning amongst police. If anything, to help the mindset under extreme duress to help not rushing to deadly action when it could possibly be avoided. Things go haywire when you're in a fight.

Is there a reason cops aren't trained to handle such situations better? Outside of money of course.

 

[KalMart]

Depends on what they do. It is not like Wilson proceeded to shoot Brown right then and there. At some point Brown began to flea. And Wilson is not some normal citizen, he is a cop.

On CNN they just said that Wilson testified to getting into an argument with Brown, where they were both cussing at one another. Does that sound like proper cop behavior to anyone?

Cops are people too, and even though your job stipulates that you try to maintain a cool head, anyone can be pushed. If they were in a physical altercation, things get heated, Brown then tries to flee, Wilson tells him to stop……kinda' hard to tell anyone to do the 'sensible' thing right there and then when so much has built up to it. Had it not started, it probably wouldn't have gotten to that tragic point….but unfortunately it did.

Is there a reason cops aren't trained to handle such situations better? Outside of money of course.

Probably lots….but budgets likely have a lot to do with it. Again…cops aren't super-traioned ambassadors for peace or ultra-safety-operatives, etc. they're people just like you and me, and given a very dicey situation, many of us would act a lot differently than we wold think when looking from outside.

I mean…how much threat-training does one accumulate from paper targets?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You don't understand. There would have been a pretrial hearing where the case could have been dismissed by the judge. The DA chose to take it to the grand jury, where ALL the evidence, with no information from the defense, could be heard by the grand jury.

It would not have gone immediately to trial.

There is a distinct possibility that this case would have been dismissed by any judge. By allowing a group of peers to review the case, there was a better chance of this case going to trial.

That is an assumtion that it would have been dismissed. We have no idea, and never will. The DA using the grand jury as a safety net proves nothing.

 

[Kelly]

Something was just brought up about this Grand Jury...I did not realize this, but they were not sequestered, therefore they knew the ramifications of not indicting Brown. That is something to think about...

Whelp, some media got the evidence downloaded....because Witness#44's testimony was just read.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Cops are people too, and even though your job stipulates that you try to maintain a cool head, anyone can be pushed. If they were in a physical altercation, things get heated, Brown then tries to flee, Wilson tells him to stop……kinda' hard to tell anyone to do the 'sensible' thing right there and then when so much has built up to it. Had it not started, it probably wouldn't have gotten to that tragic point….but unfortunately it did.


Probably lots….but budgets likely have a lot to do with it.

Then what is the point of police training if they are not taught how to deal with citizens and high stress situations? Being a cop is a high stress job. If the officers can't handle it, why are they allowed to be cops?

 

[Thundercrack85]

I still don't understand what Michael Brown was thinking.

He robs a store, and then walks in the middle of the street?

Then he attacks a cop.

Hard to believe he doesn't have more of a record.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Something was just brought up about this Grand Jury...I did not realize this, but they were not sequestered, therefore they knew the ramifications of not indicting Brown. That is something to think about...

That also means they could watch CNN or FoxNews whenever they went home.

 

[Tempest]

Depends on what they do. It is not like Wilson proceeded to shoot Brown right then and there. At some point Brown began to flea. And Wilson is not some normal citizen, he is a cop.

On CNN they just said that Wilson testified to getting into an argument with Brown, where they were both cussing at one another. Does that sound like proper cop behavior to anyone?

There is no evidence that Brown was shot while running away. Three autopsies have shown that. So please stop with the "He ran away". No, he didn't. He ran at the officer.

After one altercation, there was no reason for Wilson to presume that Brown would be reasonable, especially when he was being charged at. He took the appropriate, albeit tragic, action.

Again, what would YOU do?

Give a straight answer, instead of hedging.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

It's already been explained to you, during the day kids are going to and from school. commuters are going to and from work.
We saw what happened to Reginald Denny who got caught in his commute during working hours.
They waited for regular working people and their kids to be home safe! Not out there in harms way.

Sure...

And my understanding is, that after the declaration of emergency all schools in ferguson were closed until after Thanksgiving because of the impending announcement, as well as some businesses being closed as well. Didn't you see how many businesses were boarded up in Ferguson? Most of what's happening is in Ferguson, and that part of town has had people indoors expecting this for days and days.

You mitigate the chance of what's happened tonight if you don't have a stupid countdown, and subvert the expectation for chaos. That's what I believe.

The fact remains, the way they did it...completely stupid. Just look at what happened.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Ideally, Wilson should have tasered Brown. I do think American cops resort to the gun too quickly too often.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I have LOST ALL FAITH in these protests being peaceful, worried and concerned for many cities including my own! *SIGH*

Did you ever have faith in any of the protests?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

There is no evidence that Brown was shot while running away. Three autopsies have shown that. So please stop with the "He ran away". No, he didn't. He ran at the officer.

After one altercation, there was no reason for Wilson to presume that Brown would be reasonable, especially when he was being charged at. He took the appropriate, albeit tragic, action.

Again, what would YOU do?

Give a straight answer, instead of hedging.

How in the hell can he run at the officer without first getting away from the officer? It makes absolutely no sense. At some point he was clearly moving away.

And what would I have done? I would have called for back up and pulled out my taser. Hell, it happens on Cops all the time. So really, not all that hard to imagine. Amazing how cops act differently with a camera around.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Sure...

And my understanding is, that after the declaration of emergency all schools in ferguson were closed until after Thanksgiving because of the impending announcement, as well as some businesses being closed as well. Didn't you see how many businesses were boarded up in Ferguson? Most of what's happening is in Ferguson, and that part of town has had people indoors expecting this for days and days.

You mitigate the chance of what's happened tonight if you don't have a stupid countdown, and subvert the expectation for chaos. That's what I believe.

The fact remains, the way they did it...completely stupid. Just look at what happened.

This was handled in an exceedingly dumb way. The countdown, doing it at 8 ****ing PM.

Someone needs to be fired.

 

[Tempest]

How in the hell can he run at the officer without first getting away from the officer? It makes absolutely no sense. At some point he was clearly moving away.

And what would I have done? I would have called for back up and pulled out my taser.

Wilson did call for backup.

And what if you missed?

 

[SuperJediHero]

Did you ever have faith in any of the protests?

Yes environmental protestors are usually not violent!

 

[Sun_Down]

I still don't understand what Michael Brown was thinking.

He robs a store, and then walks in the middle of the street?

Then he attacks a cop.

Hard to believe he doesn't have more of a record.

Walking in the street? My word!

Again, what would YOU do?

Give a straight answer, instead of hedging.

How about not initiating an unnecessary confrontation over something so stupid as being in the street? How about being the adult in the situation and not screaming, "I'll f---ing shoot you" early on in the confrontation? How about grabbing your TASER or mace early on?

 

[Thundercrack85]

I find these protests rather dubious given the character of Michael Brown.

 

[Victarion]

Stop focusing on the protesting. They are not the problem. The problem in this country is the the FACT that racist mother****ing homicidal cops (and cop wannabe civilians) constantly getting away with killing black men (some cases women). What a racist country. I'm beyond disgusted. **** the cops. Is time to stand up and fight back as far as I'm concern.

I could hear this coming from one of the racist cops, with a few minor tweaks that don't alter the overall message.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I saw them read the officer's testimony, where he said that Brown had grabbed hold of his gun and...well, the testimony is odd there, because Wilson makes it sound like Brown actually took his gun from him and pointed it at him.

I'm not sure if the testimony was misread, but it must have been. Because if Brown had taken the gun away from Wilson...well, then this would have played out completely differently.

The massive info dump is still being picked through, though.

 

[KalMart]

Then what is the point of police training if they are not taught how to deal with citizens and high stress situations? Being a cop is a high stress job. If the officers can't handle it, why are they allowed to be cops?

They are, certainly moreso than most non-police individuals...but a real fight or high-stress situation is still something else. That's why military/special forces are trained to the extent that they are. If qualifications had to be anywhere near that high, we just wouldn't have enough people who could lake it and we wouldn't have enough cops (we often don't anyway).

So it is unfair to some extent to expect the cops to be 'above' human when either treated in-humanely or faced with extreme danger. they will likely try harder not to escalate than Joe Shmo off the street would, but they're not Super-Ghandi. Lots of responsibility lies with people not to harass and instigate as well. Doesn't make it right to get shot, but one should know that things can escalate to that if they want it to.

 

[antsman41]

Ideally, Wilson should have tasered Brown. I do think American cops resort to the gun too quickly too often.

There has been 3-5 dogs murdered for no reason around Minneapolis/St. Paul in the last year during chases/party break-ups/etc. through innocent folks' backyards and houses looking for people who had no connection to the ones that got affected by these moronic cops.

Not only that, while women continually get attacked and raped on or around UofM campus, no one gets arrested or caught. Yet, cops arrested a guy for 'spitting' yes spitting on "campus" sidewalk a few months ago...

 

[Sun_Down]

Wilson did call for backup.

And what if you missed?

Wilson couldn't have rolled up his windows and locked his door when Brown moved away from him? Couldn't have used mace, which is basically impossible to miss with?

 

[Thundercrack85]

Walking in the street? My word!



How about not initiating an unnecessary confrontation over something so stupid as being in the street? How about being the adult in the situation and not screaming, "I'll f---ing shoot you" early on in the confrontation? How about grabbing your TASER or mace early on?

Well, if I just robbed a store and manhandled a clerk, I would try to be a bit inconspicuous.

 

[Kelly]

That also means they could watch CNN or FoxNews whenever they went home.

Yes, but Grand Juries are a different animal. They are not just called for this case, they are called for MANY, you are on a grand jury for weeks. I'm not sure how many in Missouri, but some go up to 3 months. Here in Texas it is 3 months. You are prepped heavily on this jury. IMO, what they saw would tell them that their decision will have major societal consequences. Again, just something to think about....

 

[SuperJediHero]

not screaming, "I'll f---ing shoot you" early on in the confrontation

That is a fact?