Homecoming Robert Downey Jr IS Tony Stark / Iron Man

[Oscorp]

I love these news. I couldn't care less about you guys who just complain! :P

 

[Shikamaru]

I wonder what exactly convinced so many people that RDJ in SPIDER-MAN Homecoming = the movie turning into Iron Man 4/Peter turning into Stark junior when Feige, the writers of the movie and John Watts have all explicitly stated multiple times that the movie is going to focus on Peter and his supporting cast first and foremost, with him being a normal kid and trying to balance out school with super heroing

None of what Feige and Watts said are necessarily contradictory to the idea of him being a Stark junior, nor is him being a Stark Jr. the only means through which Tony getting involved might make it problematic (something like him being Peter's Q/Lucius Fox I would still have issues with).

I'm fine with having him in there Falcon-in-Ant-Man style or having Tony play a role like the FF in ASM #1, but there's no guarantee yet they won't go the more mentor route (by "mentor" I'm including things like advice seeking on being a superhero). And while it's not a guarantee they'll go that route, to dismiss the idea as being realistically impossible is just as naïve. We've had two Marvel continuities in the past six years where they went that route (the USM comic and cartoon) and unless you've read the spoilers for Civil War the only thing we know is that Tony personally recruits him. I'm cautiously optimistic but I also have to suspect that Marvel's had a slight change of heart since the Stan Lee days on how independent the character should be.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I get the complaints about the director, writers, etc. cause they are unproven in their fields and it creates worry about their abilities and will they succeed. There's no denying this Spidey solo film has a ton riding on it. Three par or sub-par to awful Spider-Man movies in a row--yeah, there's no room for anything less than a great movie. Expectations are high. Faith in Feige and Marvel for their past record in using unproven talents is the knot that is holding things together.

But complaints about an MCU character showing up in a Spider-Man solo movie? Um...what exactly did you expect? This is a universe, a very successful universe I might add, that is built on making connections and building relationships across film borders.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

None of what Feige and Watts said are necessarily contradictory to the idea of him being a Stark junior, nor is him being a Stark Jr. the only means through which Tony getting involved might make it problematic (something like him being Peter's Q/Lucius Fox I would still have issues with).

I'm fine with having him in there Falcon-in-Ant-Man style or having Tony play a role like the FF in ASM #1, but there's no guarantee yet they won't go the more mentor route (by "mentor" I'm including things like advice seeking on being a superhero). And while it's not a guarantee they'll go that route, to dismiss the idea as being realistically impossible is just as naïve. We've had two Marvel continuities in the past six years where they went that route (the USM comic and cartoon) and unless you've read the spoilers for Civil War the only thing we know is that Tony personally recruits him. I'm cautiously optimistic but I also have to suspect that Marvel's had a slight change of heart since the Stan Lee days on how independent the character should be.

Well, what is wrong with having a mentor? This doesn't mean Peter will be stupid and need youtube video advice. Tony is someone Peter may indeed look up to and even respect. Maybe Tony invites him to come and hang out at his research center and is even more impressed with Pete's wit and intelligence. Maybe they use this as a way to show off how smart Peter is already, on his own, at 16.

 

[Shikamaru]

Well, what is wrong with having a mentor? This doesn't mean Peter will be stupid and need youtube video advice. Tony is someone Peter may indeed look up to and even respect. Maybe Tony invites him to come and hang out at his research center and is even more impressed with Pete's wit and intelligence. Maybe they use this as a way to show off how smart Peter is already, on his own, at 16.

That's not an example of "advice seeking on being a superhero", which is what I stated. It's not the kind of mentor I talked about (otherwise him working with people like Connors would be just as bad).

 

[UltimateWebhead]

That's not an example of "advice seeking on being a superhero", which is what I stated. It's not the kind of mentor I talked about (otherwise him working with people like Connors would be just as bad).

You said "INCLUDING things like advice seeking on being a hero." That means the other aspects that come with being a mentor. IMO, Tony being a mentor has more to do with the science/tech ability and resources...cause with the brain Peter has, how exciting would it be to hang with someone of Tony's caliber? Though I can see Tony using his ideals about superhero-ing and trying to press them onto Peter...he's young and impressionable, and Tony wants heroes to go along with the Govt issued accords. But imo Peter using his mantra of GpcGR will outweigh anything if he feels it isn't right...cause Peter is about doing the right thing--maybe he'll come to see that Tony is wrong and switch sides. But singling out the "advice seeking on being a hero" as the only part of 'mentoring' and somehow this will ruin Peter's characterization is exaggerated imo. If they went that route and turn Peter into a drooling, Stark lap-dog a la USM cartoon, then, yeah, that's just terrible and ridiculous.

 

[SpideyJJ]

None of what Feige and Watts said are necessarily contradictory to the idea of him being a Stark junior, nor is him being a Stark Jr. the only means through which Tony getting involved might make it problematic (something like him being Peter's Q/Lucius Fox I would still have issues with).

I'm fine with having him in there Falcon-in-Ant-Man style or having Tony play a role like the FF in ASM #1, but there's no guarantee yet they won't go the more mentor route (by "mentor" I'm including things like advice seeking on being a superhero). And while it's not a guarantee they'll go that route, to dismiss the idea as being realistically impossible is just as naïve. We've had two Marvel continuities in the past six years where they went that route (the USM comic and cartoon) and unless you've read the spoilers for Civil War the only thing we know is that Tony personally recruits him. I'm cautiously optimistic but I also have to suspect that Marvel's had a slight change of heart since the Stan Lee days on how independent the character should be.

In the Ultimate comics, Stark simply stated he'd be interested in taking Peter under his wing because he's intelligent and quick witted, and that barely lasted two issues iirc. In the cartoon he's more of a SHIELD lackey than Stark's protégé (there he's just a Stark fanboy)

Feige and Marvel have constantly shown a deep rooted understanding of their characters, and they know just how much is riding on this solo being great. If anything, I expect Stark to be more of a scientific mentor (with him talking about the scholarship/school program thing when recruiting Peter) than being the Obie Wan Kenobi to Peter's Luke Skywalker

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

Cap America: Civil War movie is basically just Civil War movie or Avengers v2.5. It isnt Cap standalone movie. It isnt true Cap sequel. It's standalone piss-off who has bigger *ick movie. Same as BvS isnt MoS true sequel, we are still waiting for Superman solo sequel. And I dont want Homecooking or Greatness Awaits to be that. I want it to be true Spider-Man standalone movie.

And when you get Stark, or anyone else from Avengers starring in it, you are losing magic of what Spider-Man is. There is reason why in Cap America Civil War movie, nobody talks about Cap. All they talk is how good Black panther is or how good Spidey is, or how big Giant-Man is.

You obviously haven't seen the movie so you shouldn't be commenting. Civil War was absolutely Cap's movie.

 

[Shikamaru]

You said "INCLUDING things like advice seeking on being a hero." That means the other aspects that come with being a mentor. IMO, Tony being a mentor has more to do with the science/tech ability and resources...cause with the brain Peter has, how exciting would it be to hang with someone of Tony's caliber? Though I can see Tony using his ideals about superhero-ing and trying to press them onto Peter...he's young and impressionable, and Tony wants heroes to go along with the Govt issued accords. But imo Peter using his mantra of GpcGR will outweigh anything if he feels it isn't right...cause Peter is about doing the right thing--maybe he'll come to see that Tony is wrong and switch sides. But singling out the "advice seeking on being a hero" as the only part of 'mentoring' and somehow this will ruin Peter's characterization is exaggerated imo. If they went that route and turn Peter into a drooling, Stark lap-dog a la USM cartoon, then, yeah, that's just terrible and ridiculous.

I should have been clear that I was referring strictly to superhero mentoring (though if you ask me that goes without saying, and if you go back to my first few posts in this thread I made it clear that's what I was referring to). The things have nothing to do with being a superhero, they're no different than an internship. I'm specifically talking about the idea of Peter's superhero career getting any major input from Tony or other veteran superheroes, since one of the aspects that makes the character appealing IMO is that he had to learn what it's like to be a superhero by himself. If you take that away Spidey's teen aspect is no different from the X-Men's or the DC sidekicks'.

In the Ultimate comics, Stark simply stated he'd be interested in taking Peter under his wing because he's intelligent and quick witted, and that barely lasted two issues iirc. In the cartoon he's more of a SHIELD lackey than Stark's protégé (there he's just a Stark fanboy)

Feige and Marvel have constantly shown a deep rooted understanding of their characters, and they know just how much is riding on this solo being great. If anything, I expect Stark to be more of a scientific mentor (with him talking about the scholarship/school program thing when recruiting Peter) than being the Obie Wan Kenobi to Peter's Luke Skywalker

I was referring to the idea of him being a lackey/protege in general (under Stark or otherwise), which both the USM comic and cartoon have done to great extents. Now while that doesn't necessarily mean Feige will do it, it still shows that Marvel as a whole is somewhat more open to going that route than they were in the past, and even if we talk strictly about Marvel Studios that rule still applies since they want him to be an Avenger. We have yet to have anyone at Marvel balance out Peter's Avengers life with his more private life and still have it fully make sense (partly because the private life aspect hasn't been written well in the past 10 years), and that seems to be the status quo of the MCU going forward. When you take things like that into account it's not a stretch to at least entertain the possibility they might hurt the independence aspect that comes with Spidey, even if they don't necessarily realize it.

 

[SpideyJJ]

I should have been clear that I was referring strictly to superhero mentoring (though if you ask me that goes without saying, and if you go back to my first few posts in this thread I made it clear that's what I was referring to). The things have nothing to do with being a superhero, they're no different than an internship. I'm specifically talking about the idea of Peter's superhero career getting any major input from Tony or other veteran superheroes, since one of the aspects that makes the character appealing IMO is that he had to learn what it's like to be a superhero by himself. If you take that away Spidey's teen aspect is no different from the X-Men's or the DC sidekicks'.

Peter's ideals and morality as a superhero have always lined up more with Cap's than Stark's. While Tony will more likely than not want to be a direct influence on Peter as a hero, ultimately Peter wouldn't agree with him (which could very well be a point of contention between the two).

The concern is definitely understandable (and given his bond with Stark in Civil War, completely valid) but I have faith in Marvel to keep that aspect of his character throughout his heroic journey as it is one of his defining traits

 

[PeterBenParker]

My whole concern is making Spider-Man's solo films just like the MCU formula, meaning you have to see every single Marvel thing to 'get' everything and I do not want that with Spider-Man at all. I shouldn't feel like I have to see a Thor movie just to get something that may carry over to Spidey.

That's the reason why I like going back to Spider-Man 2 for example 'cause despite it being a direct sequel, it feels like it stands alone. Or how seamless DDS1 to DDS2 went despite ignoring JJ on Netflix.

Spider-Man is finally a part of the MCU, they should have fun with it. If they made just another simple Spidey solo flick then what really makes it different from the previous 5 movies Sony has already done? I like that Tony Stark is actually appearing in the movie rather than some silly Agents of SHIELD/Netflix style references to other characters in the universe to just let people know they co-exist.

That's where I differ.

I'd be much more happy with having subtle references to the MCU in the vain of how Netflix does, and even seeing a smaller character like a Falcon or Hawkeye (if they had to have a MCU character involved) as opposed to having a big juggernaut like RDJ's Tony Stark as a key focus of the film (which is what they're going for, hence the mention of the personal relationship).

Maybe my mind will change once seeing Civil War (which I'm majorly seeing it for Spidey alone, but I plan on (re)watching Cap 2, Avengers 2 and Ant-Man before seeing it).

 

[Golgo-13]

I'm hoping this isn't the case, but i have a feeling this is how Marvel is going to tie things together; i have a feeling that Spidey got his powers via a Stark invention/expo, etc, and maybe Spidey seeks out Tony for answers to his condition thus how they know each other in CW.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I should have been clear that I was referring strictly to superhero mentoring (though if you ask me that goes without saying, and if you go back to my first few posts in this thread I made it clear that's what I was referring to). The things have nothing to do with being a superhero, they're no different than an internship. I'm specifically talking about the idea of Peter's superhero career getting any major input from Tony or other veteran superheroes, since one of the aspects that makes the character appealing IMO is that he had to learn what it's like to be a superhero by himself. If you take that away Spidey's teen aspect is no different from the X-Men's or the DC sidekicks'.

I didn't read your previous posts, Shika, but, I know that your concern is coming from a good place. In talking with you in the past I know how well educated you are with the source material. And I am in agreement with part of your concern. If Tony ends up playing a major role here and Peter HAS to rely on Tony not only for advice but also because he can't figure things out on his own; I'll be disappointed. Peter learning the superhero gig on his own was very much a huge, likeable, entertaining aspect of the original comics and so I hope they focus on that aspect instead of using Tony as his crutch. IMO, I still feel that Tony's input will be nothing more than from the mentoring in Peter's future with science and tech. I'd like to see Tony impressed with Peter's intellect and ability. At this point, I'm not worried about Tony being in Homecoming. There are bigger issues...

I'm hoping this isn't the case, but i have a feeling this is how Marvel is going to tie things together; i have a feeling that Spidey got his powers via a Stark invention/expo, etc, and maybe Spidey seeks out Tony for answers to his condition thus how they know each other in CW.

The important part, at least for me, is that Peter's 'bite' was essentially a random accident. Whether by a genetically altered Spider or one that happens to be, at that moment hit by some radioactive laser or whatever and then bites Peter, I don't care. In most iterations, Peter is at some-type of a science exhibit when this occurs. So, if he happens to be at a Stark-type expo or whatever, I don't have an issue with that. Now, if they do some ridiculous origin changing type device like Peter's father injecting DNA into the spiders making this a case of fate, yeah, no thanks. But at least, having the bite take place at a Stark-expo would give Tony good reason to be able to track down Peter...much like how Norman was able to track down Peter in the USM comics. That would take away a contrivance.

 

[Golgo-13]

^It would make much more sense if Peter tracked down Tony, after the bite when trying to discover exactly what had happened to him, rather than the other way round.

And i too hope it's a spider that has passed through some sort of ray, thus dying after biting Peter; that way it's a one in a chance occurance and we can't have anymore spider-people running around ala the gentically altered spider origin.

I also hope they don't some how explain his origin by weaving in the 'super-soldier serum'……….

 

[UltimateWebhead]

^It would make much more sense if Peter tracked down Tony, after the bite when trying to discover exactly what had happened to him, rather than the other way round.

And i too hope it's a spider that has passed through some sort of ray, thus dying after biting Peter; that way it's a one in a chance occurance and we can't have anymore spider-people running around ala the gentically altered spider origin.

I also hope they don't some how explain his origin by weaving in the 'super-soldier serum'……….

I agree about the spider dying off. But whether it's genetic altered or hit with a radioactive type laser makes no difference to me. They both work. The key part is random.

And from what i've heard,

Spoiler

Tony tracks down Peter in CW...so the part about you wanting Peter tracking down Tony may be moot

.

 

[ernesth100]

What if it's a magic Spider?

 

[Repulsor Blast]

i just hope they don't overcompensate with MCU tie in aspect; do not want ultimate cartoon vibes.

 

[Web-Head]

Don't forget that RDJ was just recently approached about playing Stark in this. Meaning he probably doesn't have a big role in it.

 

[Golgo-13]

With the amount of money i heard he's aksing for, i doubt that.

 

[Poppy]

My whole concern is making Spider-Man's solo films just like the MCU formula, meaning you have to see every single Marvel thing to 'get' everything and I do not want that with Spider-Man at all. I shouldn't feel like I have to see a Thor movie just to get something that may carry over to Spidey.

That's the reason why I like going back to Spider-Man 2 for example 'cause despite it being a direct sequel, it feels like it stands alone. Or how seamless DDS1 to DDS2 went despite ignoring JJ on Netflix.

I'd be much more happy with having subtle references to the MCU in the vain of how Netflix does, and even seeing a smaller character like a Falcon or Hawkeye (if they had to have a MCU character involved) as opposed to having a big juggernaut like RDJ's Tony Stark as a key focus of the film (which is what they're going for, hence the mention of the personal relationship).

This is exactly what I think too.

I wanted a subtle references to the others movie, not the biggest character of the MCU in the first Spiderman movie...Plus wouldn't it be dangerous for Peter's secret identity to hang out with Tony Stark aka Iron Man? I mean that's why in the USM comics, they sent Agents (Fury was sent only when May was in danger).

With the amount of money i heard he's aksing for, i doubt that.

This ^.
Remember that Stark was supposed to be only a cameo in Civil War and now he's one of the lead.
(Granted you could argue that Stark has a big role in the comics but the MCU is known for being different than its source material so I'm sure that, if it was anyone other than Downey, the guy would have had a cameo.)

 

[Inhuman117]

Tony has to Build The Iron Spider Suit for Peter there is no way they can't let it off everybody wants it everybody expect this and the movie need Norman Osborn

 

[superglowy]

Everything being announced for this movie is a ****ing mess. The hideous subtitle, the 'Saturday Morning cartoon' style logo, The director has one indie hit under his belt, but everyone is giving him Pre-Webb benefit of the doubt and we know how ASM2 went, the cast (Tom Holland and Marisa Tomai excluded) seem horrible, I don't know much about the Zendaya girl but her accent on an Ellen interview I saw was borderline 'Hillbilly hick', the writers are the people that wrote the hideous 'Vacation' movie and now they're gonna take the essence of what makes Spiderman so great, that he is a teen that isn't the typical 'big ego persona that is in control' superhero type, struggling in queens/for money etc and flush it away cause how hard can it really be when ****ing billionaire superhero Iron Man/Tony Stark has a vested interest in you.

Everyone keeps going 'it's Marvel, they won't **** it up, it's Marvel' even though if these were Sony announcements everyone would be cracking up and I bet this movie ends up a total disaster.

 

[Golgo-13]

Everything being announced for this movie is a ****ing mess. The hideous subtitle, the 'Saturday Morning cartoon' style logo, The director has one indie hit under his belt, but everyone is giving him Pre-Webb benefit of the doubt and we know how ASM2 went, the cast (Tom Holland and Marisa Tomai) excluded seem horrible, I don't know much about the Zendaya girl but her accent on an Ellen interview I saw was borderline 'Hillbilly hick', the writers are the people that wrote the hideous 'Vacation' movie and now they're gonna take the essence of what makes Spiderman so great, that he is a teen that isn't the typical 'big ego persona that is in control' superhero type, struggling in queens/for money etc and flush it away cause how hard can it really be when ****ing billionaire superhero Iron Man/Tony Stark has a vested interest in you.

Everyone keeps going 'it's Marvel, they won't **** it up, it's Marvel' even though if these were Sony announcements everyone would be cracking up and I bet this movie ends up a total disaster.

I thought i was the only one who had an issue with the title and the lacklsuter logo…but at the end of the day, if the movie is good then it's a moot issue.

 

[PeterBenParker]

This is exactly what I think too.

I wanted a subtle references to the others movie, not the biggest character of the MCU in the first Spiderman movie...Plus wouldn't it be dangerous for Peter's secret identity to hang out with Tony Stark aka Iron Man? I mean that's why in the USM comics, they sent Agents (Fury was sent only when May was in danger).

Exactly. Just hoping for the best at the end of the day, but I do have my fears.

Everything being announced for this movie is a ****ing mess.

It's been hit-and-miss, I find.

The hideous subtitle, the 'Saturday Morning cartoon' style logo,

Agree to disagree there as I enjoy both. Seems like this film will be quite lighthearted which is the best tone for Spider-Man.

The director has one indie hit under his belt, but everyone is giving him Pre-Webb benefit of the doubt

This worries me. Really didn't like Clown and I've still yet to watch Cop Car so I can't comment there.

and we know how ASM2 went

More like how TASM went as a whole, but I put more of the blame on Arad and Tolmach than I do Webb. Webb just a "Yes man" at the end of the day.

the cast (Tom Holland and Marisa Tomai) excluded seem horrible

With the exception of Tomei, I've no issue with the cast.

I don't know much about the Zendaya girl but her accent on an Ellen interview I saw was borderline 'Hillbilly hick'

Ouch..

the writers are the people that wrote the hideous 'Vacation' movie

That is worrisome.

and now they're gonna take the essence of what makes Spiderman so great, that he is a teen that isn't the typical 'big ego persona that is in control' superhero type, struggling in queens/for money etc and flush it away cause how hard can it really be when ****ing billionaire superhero Iron Man/Tony Stark has a vested interest in you.

Also really worrisome. Hoping for just a supporting role but given the money he's getting for it, I doubt it.

Everyone keeps going 'it's Marvel, they won't **** it up, it's Marvel' even though if these were Sony announcements everyone would be cracking up

Very true. Difference there is that many trust Marvel (excluding IM2 and Thor 2) and many don't trust Sony now, so it is what it is I guess.

 

[ernesth100]

RDJ attracts money. Spidey attracts money. Together the Box Office explodes.