Rogue taking the cure - wrong message entirely

[fallenAngel]

I don't understand why Bobby and Rogue didn't just stick leech underneath the bed when they wanted to make some dirty love.

Sure it would be mortifying for poor leach but that way Rogue could still fight, I know she can do something of value, she can't be that worthless, the X men were so outnumbered in this, they should have taken Rogue with them and called Night crawler.

Even though Colossus didn't get to do anything cool with just the six of them.

 

[kah]

Rogue taking the cure sends a terrible message to children. She should have appeared at the end and explained why she DIDN'T take the cure.

The cure is like asking yourself "if I were black, and there was a "cure" for it, would I take it"? And the answer is "sure, sometimes being black is hard, but I am proud of who I am and I shouldn't have to change".

Rattner and whoever the hell wrote the script didn't understand the X-Men's message of understanding and tolerance.

Absolutely it was the wrong message, but it was also so not Rogue. At least not the Rogue I fell in love with. That little brassy ***** would never have taken a cure and would have pissed on anyone else who thought about taking it. This is not Rogue.

 

[kah]

Everyone seems to be complaining that the movie Rogue is so different than the comics Rogue.....basically saying that the comicbook version would never take the cure and is so happy to be a mutant.

I guess you guys are younger than me because I remember way back when Rogue shows up on Xavier's door begging for help. She hated how her powers had left Ms. Marvel and others squirming around in her head. In fact, Rogue only found confidence during the 90s. Plus, it must help that she'd basically become Superwoman. Flying is cathartic. lol



Being gay isn't a perfect anology, but I don't know many gay men over 30 who didn't at one time in their life wish they were straight. If there had been a cure when I was 15 I'd probably have taken it. It was miserable feeling so alone and isolated and hated. Thank God I didn't because I'm a better person because of my struggles.

Many of my friends were engaged or married....just desperately trying to not be gay. Times are changing. Young people today are living in a different world.

A cure for gayness would be horrible but it'd be a sell-out hit! Sadly. And I can't say that every young lonely teenager would care about my stories of becoming happy to be gay. Do teeanagers listen to any adult? lol

-Dallas

That early Rogue was B-O-R-I-N-G, and we saw her in X1. She regressed bigtime in X3. Folks talk about the negatives of the films deviating from the characters/storylines. Sometimes it is the perfect thing to do because the writers of the books themselves realized the character was going in the wrong direction, so they changed him or her. I can't think of a more damning thing to say than someone did not learn from someone else's mistake.

As to your personal situation, that saddens me. It does not surprise me, but it saddens me, and I think it makes the initial question all that more important. I was a total freak in high school in the 70's, a proud jock (although a swimmer, so that was a little weird) who liked to read and think and act and question authority (in the South no less!). I was lucky enough to never want a "cure". I embraced my uniqueness. Like I said, I was lucky. Lonely a lot of the time, but I was ME dammit!

 

[wonderdallas]

As to your personal situation, that saddens me. It does not surprise me, but it saddens me, and I think it makes the initial question all that more important. I was a total freak in high school in the 70's, a proud jock (although a swimmer, so that was a little weird) who liked to read and think and act and question authority (in the South no less!). I was lucky enough to never want a "cure". I embraced my uniqueness. Like I said, I was lucky. Lonely a lot of the time, but I was ME dammit!

Yeah, I'm from the South too...so I get it! lol

I feel I was lucky too because I came to terms with my being gay pretty quickly and was fairly comfortable with myself (tho in the closet) by the time I left high school. But those years between 12 and 15 were seriously depressing. I'm out, proud and happy now..... but that was unimaginable to me back then.

That's why I can't blame Rogue for her feelings. She is just in a place where the cure seems like a light at the end of the tunnel.

The sad thing is by taking a cure (or not) one will never know where the other path would lead. Conceivably, Rogue could be far happier being burdened by her powers and Storm may actually have had a happier life as a human. We just can't predict the future. Hell, we can hardly imagine the possibilities, so I can't damn someone for seeking a way out of there pain even if I don't personanlly agree with it.


-Dallas

 

[kah]

I think that Rouge made a mistake too, but I can understand why she would want to. I think you missed the message kainedamo, it was about choice. Rouge made the choice of what direction her life would take her. The cure wasn't a bad thing really, it was weaponizing it that was wrong. At that point it is like sending someone off to a camp to get fixed because they are gay. I think it sends a perfectly acceptable message, as Wolverine pointed out to her, no one should stop you from doing what you believe is right.

Your own logic has a flaw, for instance biologically we were made to breed, in order to breed we must have a male female relationship. According to nature we should all be strait, but some people choose to be gay instead. Isn't it right then that they can choose that over what they were made to do? Rouge in the movie series wants to be human, shouldn't she have the choice if she wants to? I think they understood tolerance perfectly in the movie, they just looked at it from multiple sides.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm being mean, I'm not, it just seems like there is a lot of nippicking going on here and its getting to me, I for one loved the movie, not as good as X-2, but thats one of the best action movies out there so o well.

Sorry, but this is all crap.

"The cure wasn't a bad thing really, it was weaponizing it that was wrong."

No, the perceived need for a cure is the true evil. Weaponizing is simple human nature (a phrase that reads quite interesting in this context).

Your "understanding" of homosexuality is disgusting. Sorry, it just is. Every species has homosexual tendencies - every single species which reproduces sexually we've taken the time to study shows these tendencies. And, just as most species are non-monogamous, these tendancies don't interfere with perpetuation of the species. Animals screw each other all the time (every sexual pairing one can think of), inevitably babies are born.

The idea that homosexuality is a choice is misguided. The choice is monogamy. Sexual preference is simply that, a preference. Monogamy is the fly in this ointment. The natural "norm", based on what we see in every OTHER species on this planet, is bi-sexuality. And a lot of it .

 

[kah]

Yeah, I'm from the South too...so I get it! lol

I feel I was lucky too because I came to terms with my being gay pretty quickly and was fairly comfortable with myself (tho in the closet) by the time I left high school. But those years between 12 and 15 were seriously depressing. I'm out, proud and happy now..... but that was unimaginable to me back then.

That's why I can't blame Rogue for her feelings. She is just in a place where the cure seems like a light at the end of the tunnel.

The sad thing is by taking a cure (or not) one will never know where the other path would lead. Conceivably, Rogue could be far happier being burdened by her powers and Storm may actually have had a happier life as a human. We just can't predict the future. Hell, we can hardly imagine the possibilities, so I can't damn someone for seeking a way out of there pain even if I don't personanlly agree with it.


-Dallas

I would never "damn" anyone for making a personal decision like this, but I can still say it was a mistake, but in this context, it's not Rogue who makes the mistake, it's the writers.

I'm reminded of another writer, who some folks consider to be pretty good, who once wrote something like "To thine own self be true". This is what Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters means to me. Be the best person you can be, but above all, be you.

Rogue's decision, provided by the writers, seems contrary to Charles' teachings.

 

[LadyVader]

Don't wanna get into the whole discussion about gay, but I do agree with panzertak about the idea of choice.
It is their body. It is their choice. You wouldn't blame a person for having a sex change operation, would you?

 

[kah]

Don't wanna get into the whole discussion about gay, but I do agree with panzertak about the idea of choice.
It is their body. It is their choice. You wouldn't blame a person for having a sex change operation, would you?

Short answer: no, not at all. I'm a big believer in Choice (take that however you wish), but this wasn't Rogue's choice, was it?

I'm blaming the writers' for making a bad writing choice.

I know I'm new here and I should probably be more politic, but this is why I loved the X-Men in the first place. The stories made me consider these kinds of things. And when I get going . . .

Transsexuality, or gender dysphoria, is a very interesting topic in the context of DNA and mutation. I came "this close" to mentioning it earlier. Is it possible that I could be born male on the outside but female on the "inside"? I'm not smart enough to know, but I wonder about it.

It's interesting to me that many stand-up comics (mostly male I believe) have a standing bit about being born a woman in a man's body but being a lesbian so it's "okay". This makes perfect sense to me, and is funny to me because I identify with it.

I hate being male. I would much rather be a woman. Probably because of my upbringing (which introduces the entire Nature vs. Nuture variable), but for whatever reason, I'd much rather be a woman. But I love women. I adore women. Which also may be why I want to be a woman. But, it's difficult for me to imagine "being with" a man (with a few exceptions - Edward Norton makes me wet as hell ).

So, no, I wouldn't "blame" (an interesting choice) someone for a sex change. But this is all rather beside the point, Rogue isn't a real person. She's a fictional character people (probably MEN btw) are writing for.

So let's hear from you women, if YOU were writing for Rogue's character in X3, would you choose the cure so you could touch someone? Is physical intimacy worth the price of such a choice?

 

[spider-neil]

I thought it was a bit rich storm telling rogue and beast off
'you don't need a cure, there's nothing wrong with you'

that's fine for a women that is beautiful and can turn her power on and off at will.

rouge can't tough without killing

beast looks like a furball

it's exactly the same with the thing I was watching the FF and johnny storm was saying, 'oh embrace your powers, enjoy it', fine if you look good and can turn your power on and off but the thing has to look like a monster 24/7

if storms power was completely out of control or if the human torch was a flame 24/7 therefore if he came into close contact with another human he'd fry them we'd soon see how against a cure they are.

totally insensitive if you ask me

if I was rogue I'd have done the exact same thing.

 

[kah]

I thought it was a bit rich storm telling rogue and beast off

totally insensitive if you ask me

Absolutely it was, and would have been even if Angela Bassett (sigh. . . ) had said it, but it was just a statement and Hank was able to retort in way that made the insensitivity obvious (and it was funny too).

 

[LadyVader]

It's interesting to me that many stand-up comics (mostly male I believe) have a standing bit about being born a woman in a man's body but being a lesbian so it's "okay". This makes perfect sense to me, and is funny to me because I identify with it.

I hate being male. I would much rather be a woman. Probably because of my upbringing (which introduces the entire Nature vs. Nuture variable), but for whatever reason, I'd much rather be a woman. But I love women. I adore women. Which also may be why I want to be a woman. But, it's difficult for me to imagine "being with" a man (with a few exceptions - Edward Norton makes me wet as hell ).

So, no, I wouldn't "blame" (an interesting choice) someone for a sex change. But this is all rather beside the point, Rogue isn't a real person. She's a fictional character people (probably MEN btw) are writing for.

So let's hear from you women, if YOU were writing for Rogue's character in X3, would you choose the cure so you could touch someone? Is physical intimacy worth the price of such a choice?

So... you're a male lesbian. You're not Eddie Izzard by any chance, are you?


And as for your question, not really, no, because I for one would love to be a hero, and then there's always telepathic sex.

 

[kah]

So... you're a male lesbian. You're not Eddie Izzard by any chance, are you?

Good catch Grandpa , but Eddie's (or I'm) hardly the only one who has used the line (granted, his, damn mine, has a bit more "authenticity").

Telepathic sex . . . and some people thought Cocoon was hot!

 

[ico]

Though in the metaphorical sense, it was really a horrid choice to make Rogue take a cure, and this is a percieved metaphor for a cure being created in the "real world" for gay people, or black people, or any other group of people who have been opressed at some point. But, in real life, none of those people have "super powers", and in real life, no gay, black, catholic, outcast, whatever, has the power to suck someone dry of their lifeforce with the touch of a finger.

Basically, the point I am trying to get to is;
In the metaphoric sense when based with what it would mean in the "real world" it was bad. Nobody should have to be "cured" of who they are.
But in the X-Universe, I think it was maybe the right choice, for her. She had a million cons when compared to her, oo say, zero pro's when it came to her power. She is happier without her power now, and good for her I say.

 

[LadyVader]

Mutant is not who you are. It is what you are.

 

[ico]

There isn't that much difference in my eyes.

 

[LadyVader]

edit.

We're going around in circles with this debate.

 

[ico]

I do see your point LadyVader, that what a person is, whether they be white, black, male, female, gay, straight, etc, it doesn't, or rather shouldn't make any difference to who a person is. But I believe, that quite frankly, it does. At least to a certain extent.

 

[LadyVader]

Yes, but you didn't choose to be born white, gay, black, etc. And as such you have no obligation to remain white. gay, black, etc all your life. Even today there are ways around biology (namely plastic surgery and lifestyle choices). People don't do it because it's not convenient and it's frowned upon in our society where "you have to play the hand you're dealt". But in the X-men movie universe, all of the sudden you have an alternative. It is your body, not your entire identity, that you want to change, and as such you have a right to choose.

In this sense, we agree. it was rogue's body, it was her choice. And we can only hope that she is happier now. Or that when they make X4 she will be happier.

 

[LEX]

Angel refused to take the cure. That had to send a strong message, no? Besides, I can't see an insecure teenager like Rogue going:

Rogue: "There's a cure. I'll take it."
(she arrives at the clinic)
Rogue: "Okay, I'm going home. I'm not taking the cure because I'm proud of my mutant power -- touch to kill."
(she gets back to the mansion)
Rogue: "I didn't take the cure, Bobby. I'm very happy that I will never touch anyone. Let's never kiss."

...out of all sudden.

It makes sense in THIS situation.

 

[Ultimate Movie-Man]

We wil always have problems during our lives. We can overcome them. Rogue's problem was her mutant ability, she overcame it using the cure, just to be with Bobby. It's actually romantic, in a kinda sad way.

 

[LadyVader]

In another thread I brought up the story of a kid who had the power to disintegrate people around him. I mentioned him because people were going on and on about accepting who you are, and here's this child who would have to accept the fact that he is a killer. He chose to die.

This happened in Ultimate X-men 41.

 

[LEX]

Wow.

Wow.

Thanks, Lady, for going through the trouble.

 

[LadyVader]

I figured some people either don't have the issue or don't know about scans so I should post the pages just in case.

It's sad stuff.

 

[LEX]

The art looks pretty sweet, too.

 

[Super Flight]

yup..this is just one more F**ked up thing that they did in the film.... the writers were idiots...