Justice League Rumor: Bale may be back as Batman in JL - Part 1

[Shikamaru]

The point is that WB would want to do this regardless, because they can make a lot of money. thus why they're trying to bring back Bale.

Also, I don't think it would take an entire movie to explain him coming back to Gotham. At least I don't think WB would see it that way.

They're basically putting money before quality. Perfectly understandable that WB does it since they're a studio and that comes first but it seems to me that a lot of people here are in favor of that as well. From the way they word their posts, it sounds to me like a lot of people here are happy of the fact that quality is being put aside in favor of money and in favor of Bale coming back. That's the part that ticks me the most. Unless they work for WB, why would any fan want that since they will be the ones spending their money to see the movie and hope for it to be good?

I still fail to see why the new Batman can't be just as big of a cash cow or an even bigger one than Nolan's Batman once he is established in the first movie he appears in (which will be either a Batman reboot or the first JL film). After his first appearance, there is no reason he can't bring in the same money if he is written well and acted well.

Also, see the first link in my signature. I explain why rebooting Batman will be better for WB financially in the long run. Not to mention that WB doesn't want to ruin their relationship with Nolan who makes tons of money for them.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

They're basically putting money before quality. Perfectly understandable that WB does it since they're a studio and that comes first but it seems to me that a lot of people here are in favor of that as well. From the way they word their posts, it sounds to me like a lot of people here are happy of the fact that quality is being put aside in favor of money and in favor of Bale coming back. That's the part that ticks me the most. Unless they work for WB, why would any fan want that since they will be the ones spending their money to see the movie and hope for it to be good?

I still fail to see why the new Batman can't be just as big of a cash cow or an even bigger one than Nolan's Batman once he is established in the first movie he appears in (which will be either a Batman reboot or the first JL film). After his first appearance, there is no reason he can't bring in the same money if he is written well and acted well.

Also, see the first link in my signature. I explain why rebooting Batman will be better for WB financially in the long run. Not to mention that WB doesn't want to ruin their relationship with Nolan who makes tons of money for them.

I'd be fine either way when it comes to story.

But as a fan, I also want the movie to succeed. What if the rebooted Bats is really bad? Going with what's worked before is a safer bet when it comes to producing qualiity.

That being said, I guess a lot of fans simply believe that Nolan and tdkr didn't work and that a reboot is all uphill.

 

[Shikamaru]

I'd be fine either way when it comes to story.

But as a fan, I also want the movie to succeed. What if the rebooted Bats is really bad? Going with what's worked before is a safer bet when it comes to producing qualiity.

That being said, I guess a lot of fans simply believe that Nolan and tdkr didn't work and that a reboot is all uphill.

Except that what worked before will not work as well now due to several reasons we already discussed.

I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about other people here. I won't say any names though.

We already discussed the "what if it fails?" question. I said that that is the exact mindset that will lead to failure. In fact, that is the mindset the lead to the failures that were Superman Returns and Green Lantern. They thought they played safe and tried to copy styles from previous films that didn't fit the respective movies being made as opposed to taking risks. WB has to take risks if they want a shared universe just like Marvel did. Look at it this way: The more risks you have to take, the more potential there is. WB has no room and no time to ask that question. They have to focus and do a great reboot. Remember the analogy I gave about the kid in school who is too worried he will do bad on a big assignment that he can't relax to put his full effort in and actually does bad while the kid that doesn't worry about such things is able to concentrate and does well.

Plus, going by the logic that they shouldn't reboot Batman because "maybe it will be bad", then why should they bother making anything else? What evidence is there to show that a Batman reboot has higher chances of being bad than a Flash film or Wonder Woman film or Justice League film? None. In fact, there is a higher theoretical chance for the Batman reboot to be good than there is for anything that's not MOS related, because WB has never been able to get anyone right on the big screen except for Batman and Superman. Batman and Superman have been the only sucxessful properties they've had for decades now.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

clark is smart?

Yes. Inherited from his parents and amplified by the sun.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Except that what worked before will not work as well now due to several reasons we already discussed.

I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about other people here. I won't say any names though.

We already discussed the "what if it fails?" question. I said that that is the exact mindset that will lead to failure. In fact, that is the mindset the lead to the failures that were Superman Returns and Green Lantern. They thought they played safe and tried to copy styles from previous films that didn't fit the respective movies being made as opposed to taking risks. WB has to take risks if they want a shared universe just like Marvel did. Look at it this way: The more risks you have to take, the more potential there is. WB has no room and no time to ask that question. They have to focus and do a great reboot. Remember the analogy I gave about the kid in school who is too worried he will do bad on a big assignment that he can't relax to put his full effort in and actually does bad while the kid that doesn't worry about such things is able to concentrate and does well.

Plus, going by the logic that they shouldn't reboot Batman because "maybe it will be bad", then why should they bother making anything else? What evidence is there to show that a Batman reboot has higher chances of being bad than a Flash film or Wonder Woman film or Justice League film? None. In fact, there is a higher theoretical chance for the Batman reboot to be good than there is for anything that's not MOS related, because WB has never been able to get anyone right on the big screen except for Batman and Superman. Batman and Superman have been the only sucxessful properties they've had for decades now.

I think there's a difference between necessary and unnecessary risks.

With Flash, WW, etc, there's no alternative. Of course I'd want one rather than not, no matter the risk level. I'd rather have the 2011 GL than no GL at all.

However, if WB had Nolan's go-ahead and Bale sitting in their lap, for me, rebooting it would be an unnecessary risk, considering that I think what they have already works great. (this is where the two camps differ. As one camp views this as a 'necessary' reboot, with all the reasons stated before why TDKT is finished/incompatible, which I disagree with. I think they could make it work just fine.)

 

[Marvin]

All this talk of Batman fighting Darkseid. Let's actually take a look at what happened.
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Granted, I'm not a fan of bizarro Jeph Loeb's writing on this series, but that's not to say he didn't nail batman here. Batman has new genesis level armor on and he doesn't so much "beat up a god" as survive Darksied's calculated aggression(obviously he didn't want bat's dead).

More to the point, what happened here is Batman used his head, poker face, code breaking and strength of will to out smart a primordial super king. This is the way bat's is often played in comics. Is it too much to for film audiences to relate too?

I suppose a better question is, can we see Nolan/Bale bat's doing this....?
I say maybe. But I restate that he hasn't been doing so in the series so far.

 

[shauner111]

OK. I get what Shikamaru is saying. You bring up some good points man. Under Snyders control, I don't have any worries anymore that a new Batman can't be AMAZING in JL. I just fear the direction the solo movies will take under once again, new direction.

But I agree with Feed, when he says if WB has Bale in their lap, then there's no reason to reboot. The money is there, the concept is obviously a tremendous attraction to Bale if he was back in the game, and Snyder would perhaps bring the action/fighting to a whole other level with Bale's version. Bale wouldn't do it just for a paycheck, it would have to be a concept that he thinks works after TDKR. Even if Nolan was out of it. He wouldn't do it if it didn't at least make Nolan go "that works, that's interesting, id like to see Zack do that with Christian".

With that in mind, I don't think they would need to reboot.

I always welcome the challenge of being won over. If WB can turn my thoughts around in the coming months, after MOS, for a reboot...I may become as excited as ever for a different interpretation of Batman.

But please GOD! Let the solo films be "horror" based. And if you're using his detective skills/fighting to the fullest, please don't do the "Batman fights 1 new villain who he meets for the first time" plot. Let most of his rogues exist already and have had a past with him. I want Gotham to be like a battleground of villains. No downtime for Batman.

 

[dnno1]

Yeah, Shauner, if Bale were to come back you wouldn't need to reboot, you just need to reload. Just give the guy more fancy toys.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Without Fox wiping his ass, I can totally see Bale's Bruce pull his own **** together lol

Bond needs Q
Batman does NOT need Fox!

Bale always had the potential to really shine with his intellect and genius, as it has been shown in clumps. But I would expect him to show his cunning a lot more now without Fox around.

If he has the means, he can do it no problem.

 

[GreenKToo]

It's hard for me to see Nolan's Batman in a WF or JL film. Bale never showed the great detective skills that Batman is known for. It was slightly hinted at, but thats it.

And his fighting skills was mostly elbow strikes with a few kicks thrown in. That's fine for the type of criminals that Bale faced, but that wouldn't cut it against a darkseid, bizarro, or brainiac.

How do you go from no aliens or superstrong beings in Nolan/Bale's films, to Superman, brainiac, etc etc.

So unless they drastically depower superman and the rest of the JL, I cant see it.

I want the Batman of the animated series or the animated JL series in the live action film.

 

[Marvin]

Snyder isn't going to depower Superman, no chance.

 

[shauner111]

It's hard for me to see Nolan's Batman in a WF or JL film. Bale never showed the great detective skills that Batman is known for. It was slightly hinted at, but thats it.

And his fighting skills was mostly elbow strikes with a few kicks thrown in. That's fine for the type of criminals that Bale faced, but that wouldn't cut it against a darkseid, bizarro, or brainiac.

How do you go from no aliens or superstrong beings in Nolan/Bale's films, to Superman, brainiac, etc etc.

So unless they drastically depower superman and the rest of the JL, I cant see it.

I want the Batman of the animated series or the animated JL series in the live action film.

Sure but you're only seeing what's on the surface. Like you said, for what Batman had to face, he used a certain kind of physicality. A trained martial artist should never show his full range in just any fight, otherwise it's just showing off.

His smarts were greatly hinted at and he used what was necessary to fight goons, mobsters, etc who weren't trained very well to begin with. Brawlers at best.

A JL would let Bruce focus more on using his mind, this is where you'll see the full spectrum. And battling super-powered beings, he can use the full spectrum of his fighting abilities.

I find people on here tend to close their mind a little too much, and only see what's on the surface.

As for the reboot, yes that's an easy fix. Ill welcome it if it sounds like a good concept.

 

[shauner111]

Snyder isn't going to depower Superman, no chance.

He already has.

He's already not a Superman who can lift continents or bench press the earth, which has all been done in the past. We wont be getting kryptonite before the Justice League movie, and there's a chance we may never see it at all in this series.

 

[Marvin]

He already has.

He's already not a Superman who can lift continents or bench press the earth, which has all been done in the past. We wont be getting kryptonite before the Justice League movie, and there's a chance we may never see it at all in this series.

Not sure what Kryptonite has to do with the matter. But I mean this.
Superman in the current books vs Superman in the Current movie will be about the same.

Batman in the current books(morrison/scottSnyder for arguments sake) vs Nolan's bats.

That continent stuff whilst kryptonite poisoned but having a little sun light on him is Singers BS which was in the same else worlds as a superman that could spin the world backwards and throw cellofoam at his enemies.

 

[shauner111]

Not sure what Kryptonite has to do with the matter. But I mean this.
Superman in the current books vs Superman in the Current movie will be about the same.

Batman in the current books(morrison/scottSnyder for arguments sake) vs Nolan's bats.

That continent stuff whilst kryptonite poisoned but having a little sun light on him is Singers BS which was in the same else worlds as a superman that could spin the world backwards and throw cellofoam at his enemies.

My point with the kryptonite is that Snyder/Goyer are taking liberties already. Nolan took liberties with the character as the series progressed.

Yes but a poster here already proved that there were comics in the past where Superman is doing such things, such as bench pressing the earth, etc. Snyder is definitely making him more human and as insane as his strength will be, he's not going overboard with it. Just like Nolan showed Bruce having intelligence but he didn't go overboard with making a point of "he's the greatest detective this world has ever seen".

 

[Shikamaru]

My point with the kryptonite is that Snyder/Goyer are taking liberties already. Nolan took liberties with the character as the series progressed.

Yes but a poster here already proved that there were comics in the past where Superman is doing such things, such as bench pressing the earth, etc. Snyder is definitely making him more human and as insane as his strength will be, he's not going overboard with it. Just like Nolan showed Bruce having intelligence but he didn't go overboard with making a point of "he's the greatest detective this world has ever seen".

Don't jump to conclusions and assume we won't get any Kryptonite at all. There is no reason to have Kryptonite in the franchise yet because A) Luthor hasn't been introduced yet and B) It wouldn't fit at all in the story they are telling with Zod coming to Earth. This is just like the time when everyone assumed J Jonah Jameson and the Bugle wasn't going to appear in the new Spider-Man franchise at all just because the lack of JJ there in the first film, even though the story they were trying to tell had no room for JJ due to Captain Stacy being the "Spider-Man hater" of the first film.

I ask the same question. Where in the Post-Crisis canon comics and prior to the New 52 comics has Superman bench pressed the earth or lifted up a continent? Comics where Superman is exposed to huge amounts of yellow sun energy, an amount that he isn't usually exposed to on a daily basis (i.e. All Star Superman), comics with the occasional PIS in them that even Batman gets, and comics where he gets help from other superheroes like Green Lantern and Wonder Woman don't count. I saw someone say in a reply to me from a few posts back that the New 52 Superman bench pressing the earth and being claimed to be weaker than the pre-New 52 Superman is evidence of this. However, the thing is that the New 52 Superman is a mess from start to finish. They claim that he is weaker but there are times when he is a lot weaker or a lot stronger than before just because (It's ridiculous BTW for him to be able to lift a planet like that and then lose to a giant snake). Even the Justice League comics, though I haven't read the last few issues in the past few months, have become more "Superman & friends" comics than JL comics. Also, when I say "strength" and I'm talking about Superman being overpowered/underpowered, I'm not just talking about how much he can lift but all his powers as a whole (i.e. the claim made by a writer that Superman is now just as smart or smarter than Batman in the same areas Batman is a master of (i.e. detective skills) is an example of overpowering).

Nolan could've at least put emphasis on the fact that Batman is a detective and could've at least had him show the amount of detective skills that a character like Castle has.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Why does Bale's Batman have to be the greatest detective in JL?

That has no purpose.

And until I see MOS and think superhuman's can exist, jumping from buildings and not feeling anything to be being able to fight 1000 men, then I think they should just stick with what they have in Bale.

He's the real world representation of Batman, and MOS seems to be taking that route with their world...and nobody give me the stuff about real world with aliens from another planet blah blah, you know what I mean

 

[Shikamaru]

Why does Bale's Batman have to be the greatest detective in JL? That has no purpose.

Um...because that's why he is useful in the first place? Without his intelligence, Batman is completely useless to the JL. It's the thing that allows him to stand next to Superman. It's very important.

He's the real world representation of Batman, and MOS seems to be taking that route with their world...and nobody give me the stuff about real world with aliens from another planet blah blah, you know what I mean

The difference is that even though they both apparently take place in "the real world", Superman is just as extraordinary as Superman is while Batman is nowhere as extraordinary as Batman is meant to be. Don't say "that's fine cuz Superman's an alien and Batman is human" because it doesn't work that way. He may not have any powers and is a human, but Batman has always been just as much of a larger-than-life figure as Superman. And like I said before, in a lot of ways, Batman is even less human than Superman is on the inside.

And until I see MOS and think superhuman's can exist, jumping from buildings and not feeling anything to be being able to fight 1000 men, then I think they should just stick with what they have in Bale.

Fair enough. Me personally, from the third trailer alone and all the TV spots released, I can see that they created a world in which literally anything can exist, as Robinov has said. MOS seems to have the perfect balance between fantasy and reality, something that no other CBM has managed to achieve before (so far).

Now I could be wrong since I haven't seen the movie yet but I'm just going by what I did see.

 

[shauner111]

Don't jump to conclusions and assume we won't get any Kryptonite at all.

I don't recall jumping to conclusions, I recall saying it wont happen before the JL film and there's a possibility that it wont appear at all. Im entertaining the possibilities. Nobody can say for sure that kryptonite will appear. It could be in the sequel with Lex or Zack could continue saying that he thinks "it's too easy".

Nolan could've at least put emphasis on the fact that Batman is a detective and could've at least had him show the amount of detective skills that a character like Castle has.

He could have but he didn't. He showed him using detective skills and he didn't go nuts with it. It's his interpretation and he doesn't have to answer to anybody.

Why does Bale's Batman have to be the greatest detective in JL?

That has no purpose.

And until I see MOS and think superhuman's can exist, jumping from buildings and not feeling anything to be being able to fight 1000 men, then I think they should just stick with what they have in Bale.

He's the real world representation of Batman, and MOS seems to be taking that route with their world...and nobody give me the stuff about real world with aliens from another planet blah blah, you know what I mean

Um...because that's why he is useful in the first place? Without his intelligence, Batman is completely useless to the JL. It's the thing that allows him to stand next to Superman. It's very important.

Without his intelligence? He DOES have intelligence, you just want the full-on level of genius from the comics. That's fine, we might get that, but don't try to say Bale's Batman wasn't smart or intelligent to win your argument. He may not have been seen as a genius (hey, maybe he is, but it wasn't shown to great lengths) but he's still a very smart man.

 

[Shikamaru]

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This is how a rebooted Batman should be like. It still has the realism of MOS with also the fantasy aspect of MOS incorporated in.

Still don't understand why it's too much to ask for that.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Bruce in TDKT was devilishly cunning, very intellectually capable and had massive unlocked potential thanks to Fox being his Q.

As I said, I'm interested in seeing him expand without Fox holding his hand.

There's more for this character to give and he can be vaulable to JL

 

[Shikamaru]

Bruce in TDKT was devilishly cunning, very intellectually capable and had massive unlocked potential thanks to Fox being his Q.

As I said, I'm interested in seeing him expand without Fox holding his hand.

There's more for this character to give and he can be vaulable to JL

The man is crippled and retired with gray hair. Nothing screams more as the end of his journey than the ending in TDKR.

He would also be the only JL member in his 40's while Superman and the rest will be in their 20's and in their prime. The dynamic between Batman and the team, especially between him and Superman, will not be the same.

Also, as I said before, they were expanding his character in BB and TDK until Nolan intentionally decided to drop that in favor of concluding his franchise in the way he did. They dropped that for TDKR's ending.

 

[Travesty]

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This is how a rebooted Batman should be like. It still has the realism of MOS with also the fantasy aspect of MOS incorporated in.

Still don't understand why it's too much to ask for that.

Wow, that was amazing. I'm loving the cutscenes, so far.

 

[Rodrigo90]

The man is crippled and retired with gray hair. Nothing screams more as the end of his journey than the ending in TDKR.

He would also be the only JL member in his 40's while Superman and the rest will be in their 20's and in their prime. The dynamic between Batman and the team, especially between him and Superman, will not be the same.

Also, as I said before, they were expanding his character in BB and TDK until Nolan intentionally decided to drop that in favor of concluding his franchise in the way he did. They dropped that for TDKR's ending.

Bruce Wayne in most mediums, operates as Batman well into his 80's.

Things were changed for TDKR...since TDK even, Bruce was looking for an end to Batman.

Him crippling and meeting Blake, inspiring Gotham to finally fight against the darkness that smeared them, what he set out to do, he had found his way to end. All that tied so well from the beginning of the story, to the middle, and to the end.

But now hypothetically, what could we get after TDKT?

An operation if serious, or simple physiotherapy for Bruce's condition.

WE was hinted by Fox it could return...which could happen.

Bruce realises that the world needs Batman, just like Gotham did. Hence HIS start of JL, along with Superman.

 

[shauner111]

That Arkham trailer was amazing. That's the kind of thing I would like to see for the reboot mixed with more horror from Black Mask, etc. I fear the solos will just be Riddler as the first villain, a detective game. Which isn't interesting to me.

Back to Bale. Let me ask you something Shika. Im being open minded and just curious. If let's say you were directing or writing the 3rd movie in the trilogy. And it had to be a veteran Batman, introducing Robin at the end (probably Grayson instead), and it wasn't made to end a trilogy but to keep going. But like I said, it had to be a handful of years after the events of TDK. Who would you have as the villains, and would you emphasize the whole "World's Greatest Detective" thing? Cut out the injuries, the greying of his hair and make Bale's Batman the experienced Batman from the comics. In his late 30s?

Would that be your direction, or something else? Because I understand that it would fit better with the JL if that 3rd movie led into the team-up. Minus the ending.

But me and Rodrigo are saying, it could still work.

Not everybody wants the exact replica of JL from the comics/animated series. Some people would be amazed at seeing a JL that is very different from the source material, a new spin on things. And quite frankly, I don't see Bale's Batman like you do, I don't see him as so far away from the worlds greatest detective. I see a way to make him that if handled by Snyder. Accentuate the positives, hide the negatives. That would be Snyder's job.

Which makes me return to my "Bale should come back to play a different version of the character". The Kevin Conroy of live-action. Bale is 39 but when he was 37 he was playing a Bruce in TDKR who was a couple of years older + grey hair because of his stress and depression. In a new version he would be around 40-41 for real, but without the greys, playing a Batman who's in his mid to late 30s. No matter what, im in the minority who feels like an experienced Batman with a team that's 5 to 10 years younger is actually a good thing.

It still has that brother and sister vibe. Just an older brother vibe.