Sandman Is Not A "Villian" in SP3.. He is a Victim of the Black Suit

[gambitfire]

Oh, gag me.

Ew no!

lol

 

[gambitfire]

Raimi is taking it overboard, though
so Sandman:
A. killed Uncle Ben?
B. has a dying daughter?
there are too many dynamics for such a simple character

Simple is boring IMO.

 

[DOG LIPS]

Oh, gag me.

Do it, Equint. Do it.



I hope they don't ever restart.

 

[Eddie Brock]

Simple is boring IMO.

simplicity is not boring all the time
besides, my point is that it's TOO much for Sandman
either have him be Uncle Ben's killer or have his kid die....don't do both, it's overkill

 

[Equint77]

Oh, gag me.

I'm a huge.. HUGE spider-man fan... and it pains me to admit this publicly but I'm anticipating The Dark Knight more than SM3.... even moreso now.

Nolan is owning the superhero franchises.. by far...

But then again... my director of choice for SM wayyy back in 2000 was David Fincher...:heart:

 

[bosef982]

Okay, people, let's think about the changes Sargent and Raimi made:

Peter Parker's attachment to the suit changes him, creates a natural outlet and increased power for his emotions.

Sandman, our villian, is said to be the individual (we don't know if this is true) who killed Ben Parker. This matches perfectly with the MAIN STORLYINE -- VENOM -- by allowing Peter to have a vengeful emotion for which the symbiote can now draw and corrupt Peter.

However, having Peter beat up mercilessly on Sandman, who killed his uncle, would be somewhat compelling and even righteous. We have to show that the suit takes away Peter's judgement, makes him a reactionary, makes him cold and less-hero-like. Thus, Sandman has a dying daughter he's trying to help by robbing these banks, now Sandman is sympathetic and Peter attacking him so viciously becomes even more corrupt, even more indicative of how much the suits changed him. Now, it's not Spider-Man goes overboard on one bad guy, it's he goes overboard and completely ignores the mitigating circumstances that make him a good, centered hero.

Also, pushing this, could be the fact that Peter becomes so focused on his own guilt and nager of Ben's deaht, that the suit blinds him to the real truth which is that Sandman did not kill Ben Parker. This again, makes the symbiote an even bigger enemy.

I think people are totally missing the point. Sandman is the main villina, yes, but only as a condiut to a larger villian, the symbiote. The real enemy in SM3 is "revenge" as May says, revenge is like a poison (i.e. Venom).

In the movie world, Venom will be the literal manfiestation of Peter's anti-responsiblity and his negative emotions, grafted onto a two bit photographer who Peter side-swipped. However, The Symbiote is the villian, riding on the back of Brock, not the other way around. To me, this is a very clever way to handle all these objects.

 

[Equint77]

Do it, Equint. Do it.



I hope they don't ever restart.

the franchise has taken a nosedive.... not Batman & Robin... but it's approaching something on that level.... IMO

A reboot would be a welcome change... even if I have to wait another 10 years.

 

[Eddie Brock]

the franchise has taken a nosedive.... not Batman & Robin... but it's approaching something on that level.... IMO

A reboot would be a welcome change... even if I have to wait another 10 years.

your talk of restarts disappoints me......
(especially considering the movie is still almost 6 months away)

 

[DOG LIPS]

I really hope it ends up that Sandman didn't kill Ben. It's just way too complex for him, IMO. He murdered Ben, but has this "stealing for his family" thing going on. It's like; "This guy actually killed the poor old man in the first movie, but he's also a kind of a good guy, trying to help his daughter. Dark Spidey is so evil!".

And then he teams up with Venom. The daughter thing just makes it all complex. He's super evil!! But pity him, he has a little daughter. Just my jumbled thoughts. I'm tired.

 

[The Caped Knight]

leave it to Sam Raimi to turn SANDMAN of all people into a "sympathetic" villain
Sandman is easily one of the least complex Spider-Man villains (and that isn't necessarily a bad thing)

Raimi is taking it overboard, though
so Sandman:
A. killed Uncle Ben?
B. has a dying daughter?
there are too many dynamics for such a simple character

In The Comics Sandy wasn't an out right villian either, In fact he was a very sympathetic villian [Due to His ailing mother.] Most of the time he stole money was to find away to get a cure for his mother & himself .

I disagree

A. He's not The Real Killer [He was connected to The Real Killer, But he's not the actual Killer .]

B. It's the same as his ailing mother in the comics.

 

[The Caped Knight]

the franchise has taken a nosedive.... not Batman & Robin... but it's approaching something on that level.... IMO

A reboot would be a welcome change... even if I have to wait another 10 years.

Due us all a favor and shut up [Wait until you've seen the movie before you bash it . and say restart .]

 

[hulkamania85]

Patiently waiting Spider-man Begins in 2015................

Yeah, let's judge the movie as crap before it even comes out.

Then again that's what a lot of comic fans seem to do best.

 

[bosef982]

I really hope it ends up that Sandman didn't kill Ben. It's just way too complex for him, IMO. He murdered Ben, but has this "stealing for his family" thing going on. It's like; "This guy actually killed the poor old man in the first movie, but he's also a kind of a good guy, trying to help his daughter. Dark Spidey is so evil!".

And then he teams up with Venom. The daughter thing just makes it all complex. He's super evil!! But pity him, he has a little daughter. Just my jumbled thoughts. I'm tired.

I honestly think the killing of Uncle Ben is a red herring designed to exploit Peter's lost of judgement in the black suit. I think in the end it'll turn out that Sandman had nothing to do with it and that it was a mistake...but Peter will have already gone all the way.

Plus, remember...having Sandman team up with Venom is not neccessarily a bad thing. If Spider-Man does what it looks like he does to him in this trailer, and Venom is what it is...it makes a lot of sense. Villians typically fall and having Sandman fall to his own desires of vengence could work quite effectively.

 

[Tanin]

In The Comics Sandy wasn't an out right villian either, In fact he was a very sympathetic villian [Due to His ailing mother.] Most of the time he stole money was to find away to get a cure for his mother & himself .

I disagree

A. He's not The Real Killer [He was connected to The Real Killer, But he's not the actual Killer .]

B. It's the same as his ailing mother in the comics.

Too bad they didn't go with the ailing mother angle

 

[DOG LIPS]

the franchise has taken a nosedive.... not Batman & Robin... but it's approaching something on that level.... IMO

A reboot would be a welcome change... even if I have to wait another 10 years.

I think the Batman saga has just spoiled everyone. I see this same thing in every board. "They ruined SM/FF/S-M/etc. etc. I want a Begins in 10 years, dammit!!"

The only reason I'd see for a restart is a whole new cast, as they may not be able to get the same cast for anymore down the road. I hate when sequels change cast, it's scary and confusing.

 

[Eddie Brock]

Yeah, let's judge the movie as crap before it even comes out.

Then again that's what a lot of comic fans seem to do best.

can he get an amen?

this is the same thing we experienced when Heather Ledger became the Joker.......people just judge prematurely

 

[gambitfire]

simplicity is not boring all the time
besides, my point is that it's TOO much for Sandman
either have him be Uncle Ben's killer or have his kid die....don't do both, it's overkill

i said IMO.

IN MY OPINION.



although i don't always feel this way but for this movie i'd say so.

 

[Equint77]

Okay, people, let's think about the changes Sargent and Raimi made:

Peter Parker's attachment to the suit changes him, creates a natural outlet and increased power for his emotions.

we will see that anyway... by his overall attitude and the way he starts treating MJ.

Sandman, our villian, is said to be the individual (we don't know if this is true) who killed Ben Parker. This matches perfectly with the MAIN STORLYINE -- VENOM -- by allowing Peter to have a vengeful emotion for which the symbiote can now draw and corrupt Peter.

again.... we will see Peter change by the way he reacts to everything and everyone around him.... there's no need to twist a plotline and having Sandman being Uncle Ben's killer.... Peter can still beat the hell out of him in the midst of stopping him from committing crimes and going overboard. Same effect and it slims down the amount of subplots being squeezed in the movie.

However, having Peter beat up mercilessly on Sandman, who killed his uncle, would be somewhat compelling and even righteous. We have to show that the suit takes away Peter's judgement, makes him a reactionary, makes him cold and less-hero-like. Thus, Sandman has a dying daughter he's trying to help by robbing these banks, now Sandman is sympathetic and Peter attacking him so viciously becomes even more corrupt, even more indicative of how much the suits changed him. Now, it's not Spider-Man goes overboard on one bad guy, it's he goes overboard and completely ignores the mitigating circumstances that make him a good, centered hero.

Peter already had a hand in killing the burgler.... as stupid as that was... it was still rightous...

And the dying daughter goes back to what I said before.... it's a subplot that isn't necessary but if done right we can still see the same effects you described peter having. He can go overboard.... beating up petty crooks.... being a jerk to MJ.... talking back to JJJ....

Also, pushing this, could be the fact that Peter becomes so focused on his own guilt and nager of Ben's deaht, that the suit blinds him to the real truth which is that Sandman did not kill Ben Parker. This again, makes the symbiote an even bigger enemy.

I don't even know why Raimi took this route..... it may or not be the truth.. but it looks official in that scene with Capt. Stacy. The sybiote is the real enemy and like I've stated in this post... we can see all the changes in him throughout the movie.... it doesn't have to center around his altercations with Sandman.

I think people are totally missing the point. Sandman is the main villina, yes, but only as a condiut to a larger villian, the symbiote. The real enemy in SM3 is "revenge" as May says, revenge is like a poison (i.e. Venom).

In the movie world, Venom will be the literal manfiestation of Peter's anti-responsiblity and his negative emotions, grafted onto a two bit photographer who Peter side-swipped. However, The Symbiote is the villian, riding on the back of Brock, not the other way around. To me, this is a very clever way to handle all these objects.

I'm trying to reserve judgement but it's sorta tough with so much being crammed into this movie.... it's becoming more complex than it should.

It's almost overkill imo.

 

[CConn]

This is what I think:

Sandman is not Uncle Ben's killer. When Spider-Man fails to capture Sandman, the symbiote begins to implant hallucinations into his mind to further motivate his hunt.

Sandman is a criminal, but not a murderer. His recent string of robberies are because of the fact that his daughter is dying and he needs money to help save his family.

While his actions are slightly justified by this, Spider-Man takes it too far and nearly murders Sandman in the subway.

That's exactly what I hope it ends up being.

 

[gambitfire]

I think the Batman saga has just spoiled everyone. I see this same thing in every board. "They ruined SM/FF/S-M/etc. etc. I want a Begins in 10 years, dammit!!"

The only reason I'd see for a restart is a whole new cast, as they may not be able to get the same cast for anymore down the road. I hate when sequels change cast, it's scary and confusing.

LOL that's the new thing amongst what i call "The Dark sided fanboys" (Since we all arn't that bad).

They all want Begins.

I for one can't wait for X-Men begins.

 

[Equint77]

Due us all a favor and shut up [Wait until you've seen the movie before you bash it . and say restart .]

ever heard of opinions? I'm stating my point of view... i'm not asking you or anyone to like them..

I'm not bashing the movie... just questioning a lot of the plots in this movie and the flaws I see from the trailer.. in case you haven't noticed.. that's sorta what this place is for.

 

[bosef982]

ever heard of opinions? I'm stating my point of view... i'm not asking you or anyone to like them..

I'm not bashing the movie... just questioning a lot of the plots in this movie and the flaws I see from the trailer.. in case you haven't noticed.. that's sorta what this place is for.

Ever heard of informed or educated opinions...

An opinion which judges a movie before it comes out is neither. It's an uninformed, uneducated opinion...

 

[Equint77]

Ever heard of informed or educated opinions...

An opinion which judges a movie before it comes out is neither. It's an uninformed, uneducated opinion...

i'm getting my opinions from the information the trailer provided.... i might be right and I might be wrong....

I love Spider-man... always have.... always will.. I want the movie to succeed but from what I've seen and heard... I have a feeling it's not gonna be on par with SM2..

It is what it is.... I might change my mind in time and regain that anticipation I had for the franchise.

 

[The Caped Knight]

You can't judge an entire movie based on one trailer [that's only 2 min long.], Wait until you actually see the entire movie before juding all the story plots .

 

[Eddie Brock]

You can't judge an entire movie based on one trailer [that's only 2 min long.], Wait until you actually see the entire movie before juding all the story plots .

ha! ha! ha!

suggesting that people WAIT to judge, what are you, crazy?

hahahahaha....that's priceless