Sandman Is Not A "Villian" in SP3.. He is a Victim of the Black Suit

[Spiderine]

I think we need to ask ourselves one question. Is this photo a Dream or a Flashback. I found this over at Rotten Tomatoes Spider-Man 3 website. There are so many assumptions out there that people take for granted. If this photo is indeed true. I for one am going to accept the fact that he indeed is the killer or has something to do with. People are just going to have to live with it.

Of course its a dream sequence, sandman is wearing the green pinstripe shirt. Did he have that when he shot Ben?

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I seriously think this will end up a case of mistaken identity. While Flint Marko may end up being a accomplice, I think that may be all he is. The black suit is going to cloud Peter's judgement as the trailer suggests.

 

[The Caped Knight]

I seriously think this will end up a case of mistaken identity. While Flint Marko may end up being a accomplice, I think that may be all he is. The black suit is going to cloud Peter's judgement as the trailer suggests.

BINGO.

 

[The Caped Knight]

I seriously think this will end up a case of mistaken identity. While Flint Marko may end up being a accomplice, I think that may be all he is. The black suit is going to cloud Peter's judgement as the trailer suggests.

BINGO. DING DONG We've got ourselves a winner in here laides & Gentelman, Give this man a prize . t:

 

[ShadowBoxing]

It also reminds me of the debate that the "chip" will turn Octavius into a villain. Many didn't want to believe it and would come up with some crazy theories.

I don't think it's a crazy theory like the chip. It's quiet possible Sandman will not actually be the killer. The point of the black suit is to push him over the edge and cloud his judgement. While I certainly believe Flint will be an accomplice to Ben's car theft, I think it will turn out he never killed Ben.

You have to understand there would be no real way to I.D. Flint as the killer.

Remember the cops never got to ID the "criminals" in the car until after Spider-Man got to "them". Flint was never in the car, yet there would be know way for the cops to know this. As far as they are concerned he was one of the muggers and one of the people involved. Perhaps the gun was Flint Marko's, perhaps Flint fled the scene after his buddy shot the old guy. But it truly seems like Flint Marko cares more about his family.

Spider-Man has to have a way to create a monster out of Flint, because even with Sand powers there is no way Sandman would jeopardize his little girl by bringing someone like Spider-Man into his life.

Sandman obviously feels guilty about what happened to Ben Parker, but at the same time seems to feel he is being unfairly punished by Spider-Man. Note everytime they fight in the commercial he acts as if he wishes to be left alone.

Until the trailer has him admitting to it, it's safe to assume any twist or turn in the plot. This is not as big a twist as making a character (like Cyclops) come back, or trying to introduce a new motivation for Octopus' evil.

Remember a police chief saying "this is Ben's real killer" only exists to give Spider-Man a reason to fight him. Not Sandman to fight Spider-Man.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

BINGO. DING DONG We've got ourselves a winner in here laides & Gentelman, Give this man a prize . t:

Why would Flint Marko shoot a guy (with the real mugger) and then run away.

Flint: "I'm fine with murder, but stealing the guys car...your crazy Joe"

 

[Spider Man]

I definitely think that's the route they're taking with this. Marko not actually the killer. If anyone knows anything about plot devices this is just what it is.

The theme of this movie is most certainly revenge. Peter tries to extract revenge on Sandman, Harry on Peter, and Venom (Brock) on Spider-Man. I don't think this movie is too "busy" or "crammed," because they all fit within themselves. They're intertwined, so when you hear all these separate things going on it sounds busy, but they all serve to further this plot of revenge.

For someone who said that Sandman need not be attached to show Peter's vengeful attitude (as it would be shown through the way he treats MJ and back talks to JJJ, etc.) that only shows one side of it, Peter's side. Spider-Man is supposed to uphold his "great power" with "great responsibility" and having Pete go over the edge because he thinks Sandman is his uncle's killer gives an opportunity to see his responsibility deteriorate. It's essential and a good device to feed the symbiote.

This story is rich, and I think it will certainly be a hit. These elements are making me the most excited to see this movie in 2007.

 

[terry78]

As mentioned, in the books Sandman did turn good for a while there. So he's not as simplistic as people assume.

 

[The Caped Knight]

I definitely think that's the route they're taking with this. Marko not actually the killer. If anyone knows anything about plot devices this is just what it is.

The theme of this movie is most certainly revenge. Peter tries to extract revenge on Sandman, Harry on Peter, and Venom (Brock) on Spider-Man. I don't think this movie is too "busy" or "crammed," because they all fit within themselves. They're intertwined, so when you hear all these separate things going on it sounds busy, but they all serve to further this plot of revenge.

For someone who said that Sandman need not be attached to show Peter's vengeful attitude (as it would be shown through the way he treats MJ and back talks to JJJ, etc.) that only shows one side of it, Peter's side. Spider-Man is supposed to uphold his "great power" with "great responsibility" and having Pete go over the edge because he thinks Sandman is his uncle's killer gives an opportunity to see his responsibility deteriorate. It's essential and a good device to feed the symbiote.

This story is rich, and I think it will certainly be a hit. These elements are making me the most excited to see this movie in 2007.

Way To Go Spidey , Couldn't have said it better myself . t:

 

[The Game]

I definitely think that's the route they're taking with this. Marko not actually the killer. If anyone knows anything about plot devices this is just what it is.

The theme of this movie is most certainly revenge. Peter tries to extract revenge on Sandman, Harry on Peter, and Venom (Brock) on Spider-Man. I don't think this movie is too "busy" or "crammed," because they all fit within themselves. They're intertwined, so when you hear all these separate things going on it sounds busy, but they all serve to further this plot of revenge.

For someone who said that Sandman need not be attached to show Peter's vengeful attitude (as it would be shown through the way he treats MJ and back talks to JJJ, etc.) that only shows one side of it, Peter's side. Spider-Man is supposed to uphold his "great power" with "great responsibility" and having Pete go over the edge because he thinks Sandman is his uncle's killer gives an opportunity to see his responsibility deteriorate. It's essential and a good device to feed the symbiote.

This story is rich, and I think it will certainly be a hit. These elements are making me the most excited to see this movie in 2007.

More exciting than Borat 2?

 

[The Kid]

I'd love for this to be the case, just some random hallucination the suit creates to make Spidey more pissed at Sandman, but all that I've read and seen points to that not being true and what we heard is what we'll get.

So like one of you very non-pretentious fellow hypsters kindly told me one day, "get over it." If this is what raimi decided to do then that's the way it is. Choose to accept it or not, it's up to you.

I'd also like to address the whole talk about the deep message in the story etc about revenge. Revenge is bad. Yes I get it. Anything else? That's why it's important to make a major change to the story after the fact?

Thinking on it, we actually already went over this in sm1. Pete wants revenge for getting screwed out of his money, he doesn't do the right thing to stop the thief to get revenge on the jackass who screwed him, and suffers the consequences. That's what I thought was an important lesson pete Already learned. Now he goes over it again as a review...

 

[The Caped Knight]

The First movie theme was centered around "Responsibility"

The Second movie was centered around "Choice" "Sacrifice" & "Destiny"

Now The Third movie is centered around "Revenge"

 

[Secret_Riddle]

Everyone is already saying that Flint Marko as Ben Parker's murderer is a leap in logic, and I also agree. Obviously, Raimi is setting up the Sandman/Spider-Man conflict as a case of mistaken identity, whereby Peter Parker will feel even more guilty for abusing his powers to exact vengeance on the wrong man.

If you watch the trailers closely, you'll notice that Flint Marko is holding up shopping bags before he gets confronted by Spidey in the black suit. What kind of villian runs around errands, no doubt for his family? Also, the teaser poster featuring Sandman is of him protecting a child holding a stuffed animal. So he is obviously not a "villian" in this picture.

And lastly, the final shot of the Sandman in the Theatrical trailer is of him reaching out for help as he gets drowned in a torrent of water. Obviously, we are meant to sympathize with the Sandman character, and his persecution at the hands of the Black Suit serves further to villianize the symbiote and Peter's actions while under the influence of his new alien powers.

Adieu.

I am a detective, Adieu.

very well put. i completely agree. i think the audience will be made to feel sorry for sandman and when peter finally kills him well find out that in the end it may not have even been flint marko who shot ben even though he was there.

 

[terry78]

What was the moral of the story in the books when he first got the alien costume? I thought it was about fighting the dark side within himself. He's supposed to be this hero fighting for the common good, but the suit brings out the things he should never do.

 

[The Kid]

What was the moral of the story in the books when he first got the alien costume? I thought it was about fighting the dark side within himself. He's supposed to be this hero fighting for the common good, but the suit brings out the things he should never do.

Yeah, that's it.

He doesn't give in to his lust for power. You could make one whole film on that alone.

 

[CrypticOne]

Everyone is already saying that Flint Marko as Ben Parker's murderer is a leap in logic, and I also agree. Obviously, Raimi is setting up the Sandman/Spider-Man conflict as a case of mistaken identity, whereby Peter Parker will feel even more guilty for abusing his powers to exact vengeance on the wrong man.

If you watch the trailers closely, you'll notice that Flint Marko is holding up shopping bags before he gets confronted by Spidey in the black suit. What kind of villian runs around errands, no doubt for his family? Also, the teaser poster featuring Sandman is of him protecting a child holding a stuffed animal. So he is obviously not a "villian" in this picture.

And lastly, the final shot of the Sandman in the Theatrical trailer is of him reaching out for help as he gets drowned in a torrent of water. Obviously, we are meant to sympathize with the Sandman character, and his persecution at the hands of the Black Suit serves further to villianize the symbiote and Peter's actions while under the influence of his new alien powers.

Adieu.

I am a detective, Adieu.

Nice thoughts. You have some good points. I didn't know that Sandman was carrying grocery bags, I thought they were brief cases of money. Good eye.

 

[The Kid]

The First movie theme was centered around "Responsibility"

The Second movie was centered around "Choice" "Sacrifice" & "Destiny"

Now The Third movie is centered around "Revenge"

This'll be interesting to observe. I wonder about the fickle attitudes of fanboys online especially since I am one. I know myself well enough but the rest are all a mystery. They overrate and underrate and argue all day. i could never do that. Who wants to just argue all day?

Oh back to what would be interesting to observe, well I'm interested in how the plot of daredevil will be viewed now that it has spidey's name on it.

 

[Arcturus]

I assumed Sandman was a victim of falling prices, well I was wrong.

Ugh.

 

[lordofthenerds]

Why would Flint Marko shoot a guy (with the real mugger) and then run away.

Flint: "I'm fine with murder, but stealing the guys car...your crazy Joe"

Exactly. This really shouldn't even be an argument. We've got all the proof we need that Sandman's the killer. First the script summary, then the set pics, and now this. Seriously, some people are in immense denial.

 

[stillanerd]

To reitterate what I said in the Spider-Man 3 trailer thread:

If Sandman is the Uncle Ben's murderer (and I'm afraid it looks like that's the case) the Sam Raimi and co. have pretty much ruined one of the hallwarks of Spider-Man in this sense: Peter is motivated by guilt over the fact that he had the power to stop someone but, because of his inaction, it cost the life of what amounts to as his "father."

Sure, I understand the filmmakers wanting to make the Spidey vs. Sandman conflict personal, but by making Sandman the killer, then you might as well admit that any dramatic impact of Peter's shocked horror upon discovering the carjacker was the robber he let go and the very emotional scene where he tells Aunt May the truth in Spider-Man 2 were essentially hollow and false. Plus it completely undercuts the entire point Stan Lee made in the original comic and what Raimi kept in the first film: that our actions have consequences, and that if you don't act responsibly, you wind up facing consequences you never imagined. Now by having the Sandman be the killer, which would've happened whether Spidey caught the robber or not, you essentially made him no different, motive-wise, than Batman, which makes Spidey generic rather than unique.

I'm hoping that this plot development in number 3 IS a case of the Sandman being the victim of a crime he didn't commit which, ironically, makes him an even more dangerous criminal because, as it stands, it would probably turn out to be one of the major flaws of the film, which would be a real shame.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I seriously think this will end up a case of mistaken identity. While Flint Marko may end up being a accomplice, I think that may be all he is. The black suit is going to cloud Peter's judgement as the trailer suggests.

what if flint marko really killed uncle ben though, your theory is great though, im just saying that its possible that marko could have killed uncle ben, in the trailer captain stacy said, "we got some new information, this is your uncle's real killer", but hey, you could be right considering the fact that the symbiote can make peter think of things that arent true, think about it, marko is an escaped prisoner, marko and peter were suppoose to have a close connection, wich brings me to the fact that mark was just a crook befor he when to prison, he must have been uncle bens killers [that was suppose to be] friend, they are both crooks, marko was the one who shot uncle ben, this movie is about revenge.

 

[Dragon]

Why would Flint Marko shoot a guy (with the real mugger) and then run away.

Flint: "I'm fine with murder, but stealing the guys car...your crazy Joe"

Marko takes off with the money, carjacker takes the car. He gets busted, its only for car theft. They check the ballistics on his gun and it comes up that he didn't shoot Ben. and Marko has the money, but wasn't seen robbing the wrestling promoter. So both have a good chance of walking.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Marko takes off with the money, carjacker takes the car. He gets busted, its only for car theft. They check the ballistics on his gun and it comes up that he didn't shoot Ben. and Marko has the money, but wasn't seen robbing the wrestling promoter. So both have a good chance of walking.

Right, but in the movie screencaps we've seen Marko is in front of the carjacker, who is standing fairly close together with Marko. The likelyhood that Marko shoots him and then a mugger steals the car is pretty remote.

And even the script review suggests he and the mugger were together. Therefore it makes no sense Marko would shoot Uncle Ben and not steal the car.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Right, but in the movie screencaps we've seen Marko is in front of the carjacker, who is standing fairly close together with Marko. The likelyhood that Marko shoots him and then a mugger steals the car is pretty remote.

And even the script review suggests he and the mugger were together. Therefore it makes no sense Marko would shoot Uncle Ben and not steal the car.

marko will shoot uncle ben, and uncle bens killer will steal the car, if they are friends they must have wanted to help eachother out so that uncle bens killer would be able to get away in the car and it would take to ong for uncle bens killer to shoot uncle ben and steal the car that fast, it makles sense that because uncle bens killer was in a hurry that he had to steal the car whil marko shot uncle ben and the reason why marko must have gotten away was because he could have walked away into an ally or something and because uncle bens car was car jacked they whent after uncle bens killer assuming that he shot uncle ben when it was really marko.

 

[Dragon]

Right, but in the movie screencaps we've seen Marko is in front of the carjacker, who is standing fairly close together with Marko. The likelyhood that Marko shoots him and then a mugger steals the car is pretty remote.

And even the script review suggests he and the mugger were together. Therefore it makes no sense Marko would shoot Uncle Ben and not steal the car.

That's my point. THEY HAVE A PLAN. Marko takes off with the money and the carjacker takes the car. So, the carjacker is the one the cops focus on while Marko escapes with the money. Car theft is a much lower crime than murder. And again, with no ballistics, no gun powder residue, the cops can't pin
Ben's murder on the carjacker. And note that he was successfully escaping them, but for Peter.