Season 7, Episode 7 "The Dragon and the Wolf" Discussion Thread

[TheFuture]

I assumed Grey Worm and the Unsullied escaped because it was part of the preliminary armistice that Cersei agreed to let them leave Casterly Rock unharmed.

 

[Reek]

Escaped? They probably just walked away... Euron's men would be idiots to try and take on the Unsullied hand to hand.

 

[Brother Jack]

How would you guys compare this to past season finales?

It's a tough call between this and "The Winds of Winter" for me. Each one had a great tense buildup moment (the trial and explosion at the Sept, the meeting at the dragon pit), a long-awaited death (Walder Frey, Littlefinger), more light shed on Jon's parentage (Him being the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar, their wedding which proves his legitimacy as a Targaryen), and a huge step forward in the plot as the final scene (Daenerys sails to Westeros, the Night King brings down the wall). It's tough to choose.

This was a great finale, but the one-two punch of "Battle of the Bastards" and "The Winds of Winter" in Season 6 is tough to beat. Collectively it's probably the best end to any season of this show, and one of the best overall that I've ever seen.

 

[DACrowe]

How would you guys compare this to past season finales?

It's a tough call between this and "The Winds of Winter" for me. Each one had a great tense buildup moment (the trial and explosion at the Sept, the meeting at the dragon pit), a long-awaited death (Walder Frey, Littlefinger), more light shed on Jon's parentage (Him being the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar, their wedding which proves his legitimacy as a Targaryen), and a huge step forward in the plot as the final scene (Daenerys sails to Westeros, the Night King brings down the wall). It's tough to choose.

The Winds of Winter had the amazing opening 20 minutes with the shocking green trial, the first confirmation of Jon Snow's parentage in a heartbreaking scene, and the end of Walder Frey. Yeah, The Winds of Winter by a mile.

 

[DACrowe]

Over the course of the show, I always had the sense that the Starks were having a much tougher time than the Lannisters.

But looking around now....there seem to be quite a few more Starks standing than Lannisters.

Winter is a time for wolves.

I actually really like how the finale refocused it about being the Starks persevering and the Lannisters collapsing despite having what should be all the cards. Now that all the other subplots are dead (heh), they are getting back to that season 1 conflict. And I imagine it will be the real ending after they defeat the White Walkers by episode 4 next season. One final battle between Stark and Lannister forces outside of King's Landing. With Jaime sneaking inside to pay his sister a visit.

 

[Iceman]

This episode had the meeting of many important characters for the first time as well as many important reunions. That along with the wight dragon bringing down the wall were the best parts. I don't think it would be in the running without that ice dragon ending as not every other scene was done as well as I'd imagined.

 

[InCali]

Over the course of the show, I always had the sense that the Starks were having a much tougher time than the Lannisters.

But looking around now....there seem to be quite a few more Starks standing than Lannisters.

There are "some" drawbacks to having Cersei as a mother.

 

[squeekness]

This episode had the meeting of many important characters for the first time as well as many important reunions. That along with the wight dragon bringing down the wall were the best parts. I don't think it would be in the running without that ice dragon ending as not every other scene was done as well as I'd imagined.

I agree about the reunions and the plot lines coming together as being the best parts. It's everything they built up finally coming together.

 

[TheFuture]

Escaped? They probably just walked away... Euron's men would be idiots to try and take on the Unsullied hand to hand.

Euron wouldn't be worried....cock jokes galore to unnerve the unsullied.

 

[Iceman]

Euron wouldn't be worried....cock jokes galore to unnerve the unsullied.

Haha, didn't think of that. We've surely got to hear one of these aimed at them before the show is done.

 

[Reek]

I said "Euron's men".

Euron himself... would walk into the middle of their army and cock joke them to death, one by one... ball by ball.

 

[Silvermoon]

Seeing as the shows penchant for having unreasonably fast travel times and their use of seeming "fast travel" tends to get discussed/mocked a lot here, did anyone post this yet?

Found at [Source]

 

[JeetKuneDo]

So there was a deleted scene that would have explained why Sansa and Arya suddenly went from being at each other's throats to taking down Little Finger. It helps to have a Google-Brother.

With the help of Bran, Arya and Sansa were able to uncover all of Littlefinger's lies. The problem with this is that it kind of came out of nowhere. One minute Arya was threatening Sansa with a dead man's face, the next minute they're working together. There was a lot left up to the imagination here.

Well, according to Isaac Hampstead-Wright — who portrays Bran on the series — there was a scene between his character and Sansa that helped make sense of the entire plan.

While speaking with Variety, the actor revealed that they had filmed a scene where Sansa approached Bran for help with her plan.

“We actually did a scene that clearly got cut, a short scene with Sansa where she knocks on Bran’s door and says, ‘I need your help,’ or something along those lines. So basically, as far as I know, the story was that it suddenly occurred to Sansa that she had a huge CCTV department at her discretion and it might be a good idea to check with him first before she guts her own sister. So she goes to Bran, and Bran tells her everything she needs to know, and she’s like, ‘Oh, *****,' ” Hampstead-Wright said.

http://popculture.com/tv-shows/2017/08/30/game-of-thrones-finale-sansa-bran-cut-scene/

 

[Matt Mortem]

So there was a deleted scene that would have explained why Sansa and Arya suddenly went from being at each other's throats to taking down Little Finger. It helps to have a Google-Brother.



http://popculture.com/tv-shows/2017/08/30/game-of-thrones-finale-sansa-bran-cut-scene/

Why would that cut that?

 

[Iceman]

Terrible writing for this unbelievable whole sub-plot and they even cut out parts that might have helped. This will happen when you put yourself into a wholly unnecessary pressure cooker situation of having to suddenly race to finish a series that had an established pace to it.

 

[ComicChick]

i thought they were faking the whole time. i thought they wanted baelish to think they were at each other's throats for the plan to work. i guess i just assumed that bran told them off screen or at least told one and the other told the other. i guess i just thought they schemed together or something at neds tomb

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Why would that cut that?

Probably because that would have removed all the suspense and tension from the scene where they confront LF.

There were hints though. Like the quiet sound of a raven when Ayra reads the letter in LF's room. And when you listen to what they accused LF of doing, much of it they could only know through Bran. Things like knowing LF put the knife to Ned's throat and LF lying about the knife to their mother. They even cut to a shot of Bran's face at one point to highlight it.

 

[Brother Jack]

It seemed somewhat clear to me that Bran set the record straight for Sansa and Arya. If it had been written better it could've been Sansa, Arya, and Bran collectively counter-scheming Littlefinger, but even without that scene (which was wisely removed) that's not what is suggested to have happened. It would've lead to the same result though, and I thought it was one of the most effective twists the show has pulled to date. I just wish the twist had been hidden with more clever writing rather than with doubt of the showrunners on behalf of the audience.

 

[Iceman]

i thought they were faking the whole time. i thought they wanted baelish to think they were at each other's throats for the plan to work. i guess i just assumed that bran told them off screen or at least told one and the other told the other. i guess i just thought they schemed together or something at neds tomb

Faking to who? The TV viewing audience? They did a lot of faking when Baelish was nowhere to be seen!

 

[Black Narcissus]

They also cut a scene of Bronn and Tyrion meeting to negotiate the meet with Jamie.

 

[Iceman]

It seemed somewhat clear to me that Bran set the record straight for Sansa and Arya. If it had been written better it could've been Sansa, Arya, and Bran collectively counter-scheming Littlefinger, but even without that scene (which was wisely removed) that's not what is suggested to have happened. It would've lead to the same result though, and I thought it was one of the most effective twists the show has pulled to date. I just wish the twist had been hidden with more clever writing rather than with doubt of the showrunners on behalf of the audience.

It would have been good if Sansa and Arya had been scheming since the beginning but they weren't. It's not clever when you have an Oracle telling you everything, anyone could be clever in that situation lol.

 

[ComicChick]

Faking to who? The TV viewing audience? They did a lot of faking when Baelish was nowhere to be seen!

he doesn't have to be around for stuff to get back to him. i felt like it was deliberate

 

[Kane52630]

So there was a deleted scene that would have explained why Sansa and Arya suddenly went from being at each other's throats to taking down Little Finger. It helps to have a Google-Brother.



http://popculture.com/tv-shows/2017/08/30/game-of-thrones-finale-sansa-bran-cut-scene/

 

[Kane52630]

 

[BestGirl]

i thought they were faking the whole time. i thought they wanted baelish to think they were at each other's throats for the plan to work. i guess i just assumed that bran told them off screen or at least told one and the other told the other. i guess i just thought they schemed together or something at neds tomb

But there was no need for some silly charade. Sansa already knew about Baelish's murder of Lysa and could have hanged him with that alone. Plus she had Bran to give her more dirt on the guy. It makes more sense that she locked onto his scheme around that time he decided to play his game with her.

It would have been good if Sansa and Arya had been scheming since the beginning but they weren't. It's not clever when you have an Oracle telling you everything, anyone could be clever in that situation lol.

But I believe the only reason Bran told them about Baelish was because Sansa approached him with her suspicions. So her mind was tending in that direction anyway.