September 2007 Sales Charts & Market Share Report

[Dread]

No one reads it for good reason. It blows. But, I agree. It always sucks to see a good, quality mini or ongoing fail for whatever reason, be it ignorant fanboys or ignorant company politics.

Indeed.

I finally read that article from Newsarama you mentioned, where Steven Seagle comments about the state of the industry after his Vertigo title, AMERICAN VIRGIN, is cancelled, and damn if he makes some good points. I'll repost the main ones here:

I have learned some more truths about monthly comics circa 2007:

Doing A Good Book Is Not Enough – You can see what the reaction is from people who actually read American Virgin. And yeah, before the naysayers pop up to post “Well, I hated it,” as they inevitably feel compelled to do – let me just say I didn’t really cherry pick too much here. What you read above is what is out there for the most part. And while I’ve known some creators who ask people to “pimp their rides,” to the best of my knowledge I don’t personally know any of the kind reviewers above – who I thank for their support. They just seemed to really like the book we were doing. But that wasn’t enough.

A Great Launch is Not Enough – Our first issue not only sold relatively well, but it actually sold out a four thousand copy overprint. American Virgin #1 clocked in at around 24,000 units (you never get that from these charts everyone analyzes month in and month out). Our second issue sold out too, and while I thought something would be made of the sell-outs, nothing was. Our bad – a lost opportunity to get some extra juice. And very quickly – despite really great reviews and buzz – and I mean very quickly, we were down to half that amount, and falling. I didn’t worry, because there was a lot of great press about the book and I thought, much like some other launches of the time, we’d get our rebound from the reviews and the release of the collections. But the reviews dwindled off and the second collection never seemed to come out until the writing was on the wall.

Fresh Takes Are Not Enough – I think we’re in an age that really wants fantasy – which American Virgin, obviously, is not. I was delighted that almost every review posted, or email I got, or person I talked to at a convention seemed to mention some variation on the phrase “I have no idea where this is going, but I like the ride.” I don’t want to do comics that are like a hundred comics that have come before them. But when I look at what’s making it in terms of monthlies, the truth is, it’s comics that look like a hundred comics (or movies, or TV shows) that have come before them. The comics I love lately are also dying on the vine because they’re not doing it by the numbers, and I think that’s pretty sad. Still, lesson noted, though not necessarily “learned.”

Letting the Work Speak For Itself Is Not Enough – By and large, I don’t like to get out there and hark about what a great job I’m doing. I always assume that if the work is good, people will notice. But it’s become clear to me that in the age of the super-star creator, it’s important to be yelling about what a f***ing genius you are from every corner. So in the future, when I’m yelling about what a f***ing genius I am from every corner, please remember that I feel as uncomfortable doing it as you must feel hearing it. And when someone posts “Seagle isn’t a f***ing genius” – as they will feel compelled to do - please post a follow-up explaining that I wish I didn’t have to be the person making such claims. PS – Becky Cloonan is a genius to begin with, so please don’t make her yell about East Coast Rising Volume 2, just go out and buy it when it comes out.

I don't read AMERICAN VIRGIN, and come to think of it, not too many Vertigo comics to begin with; not because of bias, just never have gotten around to it. But apply these to a lot of smaller, great Marvel titles that go, or are on the verge of going, like THE ORDER if things don't pick up, and these are very valid points, and what may explain why DC & Marvel are stuck on crossovers. Sales are good for now, but not as good as some had projected from some blowouts last year. And comic sales are a fraction of what they were in the 90's. As much as we hate crossovers, maybe they really are the steroids of the industry, and without them, the biz would start to crumble. But I'm not one of those industry naysayers, because comics have bounced back from the brink before and emerged better than ever. But this is a very hostile market now, and not even BIG companies with over half a century of continuity at their back can introduce franchises starring new characters and have them last long.

Think about it; try thinking of any new characters whose title has lasted beyond 2 years at Marvel, DC, anywhere. RUNAWAYS is about it. Image has a few (like INVINCIBLE or WALKING DEAD), but that is Image; they're less than 4% of the industry and sales above 11k per series are fine for them. Maybe the market just can't sustain perpetual ongoings anymore, and we may have to enter the age of the maxi series. If they even can hold up THAT long.

 

[PhotoJones]

I don't read AMERICAN VIRGIN, and come to think of it, not too many Vertigo comics to begin with; not because of bias, just never have gotten around to it.

Not to pick a fight or anything, but you're exactly the type of reader Seagle is referring to. I know what you read, and you don't support many original ideas. If it's not men in tights, you're not interested. Now, on the one hand, that's fine and dandy. You like what you like, and that's fine the way it is. On the other hand, I also know your thoughts on the books that you buy, and a lot of the time, your feelings on certain books is basically one of "Meh, it was okay." Or, "It's readable."

You know how I feel. You know it's incredibly frustrating when a book suffers because people won't give it shot. So, I don't think you can really make comments about agreeing with what Seagle says when you've basically written off any genre that's not superhero. I mean, your consolation to him is basically, "Oh, I just haven't gotten around to that stuff yet." You know full well you'll never read Vertigo/Indie books on the regular. It's a copout and it stinks.

But again, you like what you like and that's fine. That's just how I see things.

But apply these to a lot of smaller, great Marvel titles that go, or are on the verge of going, like THE ORDER if things don't pick up, and these are very valid points, and what may explain why DC & Marvel are stuck on crossovers. Sales are good for now, but not as good as some had projected from some blowouts last year. And comic sales are a fraction of what they were in the 90's. As much as we hate crossovers, maybe they really are the steroids of the industry, and without them, the biz would start to crumble. But I'm not one of those industry naysayers, because comics have bounced back from the brink before and emerged better than ever. But this is a very hostile market now, and not even BIG companies with over half a century of continuity at their back can introduce franchises starring new characters and have them last long.

Think about it; try thinking of any new characters whose title has lasted beyond 2 years at Marvel, DC, anywhere. RUNAWAYS is about it. Image has a few (like INVINCIBLE or WALKING DEAD), but that is Image; they're less than 4% of the industry and sales above 11k per series are fine for them. Maybe the market just can't sustain perpetual ongoings anymore, and we may have to enter the age of the maxi series. If they even can hold up THAT long.

Marvel books have the added benefit of promotion, exposure and existing properties. Yeah, it sucks when a good one flops, but it's completely apples and oranges compared to Vertgo/Indie title.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

None of that is really surprising. I can understand Seagle being upset that his comic didn't succeed, but it's the same thing that happens in any form of entertainment--the pop stuff, which is often work-by-numbers, succeeds while the deeper, thought-provoking stuff has to struggle. That's why the pop stuff is "the pop stuff." I'm sure loads of us would've loved for any number of great-but-canceled TV shows to continue on for a few more years, but more people want to turn their brains off and wallow in the ****fest that is reality TV or any of the current crop of mindless game shows. The same thing happens in the comic book industry all the time. We as comic fans would like to think we're more discerning, but it's not true. The vast majority of us still buy crap, even if we hate it, and we still flock to the mainstream, pop stuff, even if we may read other comics on the side.

 

[Dread]

Not to pick a fight or anything, but you're exactly the type of reader Seagle is referring to. I know what you read, and you don't support many original ideas. If it's not men in tights, you're not interested. Now, on the one hand, that's fine and dandy. You like what you like, and that's fine the way it is. On the other hand, I also know your thoughts on the books that you buy, and a lot of the time, your feelings on certain books is basically one of "Meh, it was okay." Or, "It's readable."

You know how I feel. You know it's incredibly frustrating when a book suffers because people won't give it shot. So, I don't think you can really make comments about agreeing with what Seagle says when you've basically written off any genre that's not superhero. I mean, your consolation to him is basically, "Oh, I just haven't gotten around to that stuff yet." You know full well you'll never read Vertigo/Indie books on the regular. It's a copout and it stinks.

But again, you like what you like and that's fine. That's just how I see things.

This isn't just something YOU do, but something people in general do; they say something like, "not to offend you" and then say something offensive, or "not to pick a fight" when they know very well that is about to occur, as that is the entire point of confrontation. It is a "copout". But that's just me, and I'm rather cynical. So, next time people, don't say, "No offense", because it's baloney. If you're going to be offensive, or confrontational, have the guts to not *****-foot around it. Go for the gusto.

While we're being open and honest here, I'll share a bit of a "shoe on the other foot" opinion. And that is that there are plenty of fans, mostly online, who seem to read mostly Indie's/Vertigo/Wildstorm/etc titles and they seem to have a "holier-than-thou" attitude towards anyone who reads only "mainstream" stuff. In the movie circut, there are the types who always go to Indie Films and the moment you tell them you just came from, say, TRANSFORMERS and liked it, they roll their eyes and shake with a sort of saintly pity or disgust. It is like in order to be "taken seriously" in some of these circles, you have to worship the feet of TRANSMETPOLITAN, or WALKING DEAD, or any number of titles that never sold above 15k or something, because they're indie and non superhero fluff and whatnot, and if you don't, you're "just the kind of fan" who is choking the life out of the industry and whatnot. And I don't appreciate it. And I doubt I am alone. And maybe more people would give these things a try if they weren't made to feel "Guilty" about not doing so.

I buy comics that I like when I want to, or when I feel there is enough buzz around it combined with my own personal tastes to give it a try (like CAPTAIN AMERICA under Brubaker/Epting/Perkins), not to prove myself to some message board people. The superhero genre is what got me into comics and it is what I like, and nothing else really gets my blood pumping in terms of regular comic buying. It awakens the simple joys I first got out of the medium as a child, and I am sorry my first experience with comics couldn't have been SANDMAN or something, but I can't go back in time and change that. And I really get tired of defending myself from someone who is rolling their eyes at me because I haven't read AMERICAN VIRGIN or EUROPEAN GOTH INDIE OF THE MONTH or whatever. You people are never satisfied.

The ugly fact of the matter is one additional person reading any title is meaningless. You need to boost sales by hundreds or thousands to have any impact. Scoring a new reader is a nice little emotional victory, like when I can get someone new on DYNAMO 5 or INVINCIBLE or something, but in the grand scheme I know it is mostly useless. But we try, because it is human nature to fight what cannot be overcome, to want to climb that mountain no one has ever climbed, that sort of thing. Some call it determination. Others call it stubborn ignorance. But to each their own.

I know you seem to have this kick to try to "confront" people into buying some various titles, because you care, and I get that. It just ain't going to work with me.

Marvel books have the added benefit of promotion, exposure and existing properties. Yeah, it sucks when a good one flops, but it's completely apples and oranges compared to Vertgo/Indie title.

I know. It is like movies from blockbuster studios that are decent and bomb vs. independant films that seem to always make almost no money for their "innovation". I get it.

I still feel I have the right to agree with Seagle here. Sheesh.

None of that is really surprising. I can understand Seagle being upset that his comic didn't succeed, but it's the same thing that happens in any form of entertainment--the pop stuff, which is often work-by-numbers, succeeds while the deeper, thought-provoking stuff has to struggle. That's why the pop stuff is "the pop stuff." I'm sure loads of us would've loved for any number of great-but-canceled TV shows to continue on for a few more years, but more people want to turn their brains off and wallow in the ****fest that is reality TV or any of the current crop of mindless game shows. The same thing happens in the comic book industry all the time. We as comic fans would like to think we're more discerning, but it's not true. The vast majority of us still buy crap, even if we hate it, and we still flock to the mainstream, pop stuff, even if we may read other comics on the side.

A very valid point. In my defense, I hate both game shows and reality TV and don't really watch either. Fortunately, LOST and 24, and now HEROES, have started to spark some interest in serials, if only ones about powers or fantasy. And TV is clogged with a million CSI clones, or Law & Order clones or spin-offs, etc. But you're right, the comic community is a microcosm of larger communities and society and many of the same rules, biases, understandings, misunderstandings, and flaws apply. I've said this elsewhere a few times but it is always a good and true point.

 

[PhotoJones]

This isn't just something YOU do, but something people in general do; they say something like, "not to offend you" and then say something offensive, or "not to pick a fight" when they know very well that is about to occur, as that is the entire point of confrontation. It is a "copout". But that's just me, and I'm rather cynical. So, next time people, don't say, "No offense", because it's baloney. If you're going to be offensive, or confrontational, have the guts to not *****-foot around it. Go for the gusto.

Really didn't mean to offend you. Take that with a grain of salt or not.

While we're being open and honest here, I'll share a bit of a "shoe on the other foot" opinion. And that is that there are plenty of fans, mostly online, who seem to read mostly Indie's/Vertigo/Wildstorm/etc titles and they seem to have a "holier-than-thou" attitude towards anyone who reads only "mainstream" stuff. In the movie circut, there are the types who always go to Indie Films and the moment you tell them you just came from, say, TRANSFORMERS and liked it, they roll their eyes and shake with a sort of saintly pity or disgust. It is like in order to be "taken seriously" in some of these circles, you have to worship the feet of TRANSMETPOLITAN, or WALKING DEAD, or any number of titles that never sold above 15k or something, because they're indie and non superhero fluff and whatnot, and if you don't, you're "just the kind of fan" who is choking the life out of the industry and whatnot. And I don't appreciate it. And I doubt I am alone. And maybe more people would give these things a try if they weren't made to feel "Guilty" about not doing so.

You'll never give anything a try Dread. You know this. Just be honest with yourself, **** me. I mean, look at what it took for you to even consider buying CA. And that's a superhero book. I'm not going to attack taste anymore or try to hurt your feelings. I'm just saying that you'll never in your life try those types of books, so saying that you might or will or would if certain things were different is a lie.

I buy comics that I like when I want to, or when I feel there is enough buzz around it combined with my own personal tastes to give it a try (like CAPTAIN AMERICA under Brubaker/Epting/Perkins), not to prove myself to some message board people. The superhero genre is what got me into comics and it is what I like, and nothing else really gets my blood pumping in terms of regular comic buying. It awakens the simple joys I first got out of the medium as a child, and I am sorry my first experience with comics couldn't have been SANDMAN or something, but I can't go back in time and change that. And I really get tired of defending myself from someone who is rolling their eyes at me because I haven't read AMERICAN VIRGIN or EUROPEAN GOTH INDIE OF THE MONTH or whatever. You people are never satisfied.

You people? What does that mean?

It sounds like you're lumping pretentious, indie snobs and people who like a variety of things into the same category. Big no-no. I like fluff. I read X-Men, for crissakes. But just like my tastes in music, movies, books and television, my tastes in comics are varied. I just have a hard time getting into the mindset of people who like the same thing in every form of entertainment.

That's why it's so ironic for you to agree with a writer, who criticizes people for being not being accepting to new ideas, when you're one of those people yourself. You just apply what he said to a smaller scale. You take comics as whole and you apply it to big time superhero books as a whole. That misses the point of Seagle's argument.

The ugly fact of the matter is one additional person reading any title is meaningless. You need to boost sales by hundreds or thousands to have any impact. Scoring a new reader is a nice little emotional victory, like when I can get someone new on DYNAMO 5 or INVINCIBLE or something, but in the grand scheme I know it is mostly useless. But we try, because it is human nature to fight what cannot be overcome, to want to climb that mountain no one has ever climbed, that sort of thing. Some call it determination. Others call it stubborn ignorance. But to each their own.

Look at the two books you mentioned. D5 and Invincible. Both tights books. Comics as a whole to smaller scale superhero books. That's exactly what I'm talking about. It's not really about popular versus indie, is it? It's really about you being completely content with exactly one genre of book. That's so crazy, to me. I mean, if I only read crime noir, I'd go nuts. I don't how "you people" do it.

I know you seem to have this kick to try to "confront" people into buying some various titles, because you care, and I get that. It just ain't going to work with me.

And you have a kick to take things overly personal and drag them out even after the discussion has ended and apologies are doled out like welfare checks on the first of the month. We all have our shortcomings.

That said, I don't really care if you personally never pick up a Vertigo title in your life. I was just using you as an example for my opinion. No hard feelings, honest.

 

[Darthphere]

So what we've learned so far is, Dread is a close minded *******, and Photojones2 is a pretentious snobby *****. Lets watch what happens next, shall we?

 

[PhotoJones]

And Darthphere is...not very funny?

 

[Darthphere]

Stop catching feelings.

Also, the guy in the pic is Ronny Shade.

 

[Dread]

Really didn't mean to offend you. Take that with a grain of salt or not.

I doubt you did. I was just in the mood to rant about those empty "mannerly" sorts of things people say all the time, but either don't mean it or they are B.S. Like in the customer service biz when every clerk says, "Have a nice day" or those big box stores that have "greeters" at the door who ask about you. I know they don't care. They know they don't care. They're reading from a rules sheet. But it happens anyway. That sort of stuff is usually my pet peeve. On a simular vein is when people say, "No offense" or whatnot, before they says something that is exactly that. I probably do it too, because I hate confrontations, but privately it irks me.

It wasn't personal.

You'll never give anything a try Dread. You know this. Just be honest with yourself, **** me. I mean, look at what it took for you to even consider buying CA. And that's a superhero book. I'm not going to attack taste anymore or try to hurt your feelings. I'm just saying that you'll never in your life try those types of books, so saying that you might or will or would if certain things were different is a lie.

"****" you? Uh, no thanks.

Fair enough. I don't like some fluffy smalltalk customs and you're prefer I don't say I'd "get around" to something when I probably won't. Gotcha.

(While on the CA subject, I am still disappointed and bewildered I didn't get the amount of flack I expected when I essentially pulled an about face, admited I was wrong, and then have full on gushed about it ever since. I mean that is like a bullseye to lob stuff at me. Nothing warrents punishment on a message board than an outspoken poster having/choosing to admit fault. I was expecting a full on ribbing and all I got was a Darthphere quip. The only reason I could fathom was there was some sort of theory that bashing someone after they actually listen to a recommendation and admit to enjoying it isn't a good way to reinforce listening in the future. But now I'M being too logical. )

I say that because I don't eliminate the possibility of EVER buying said comics. Currently my limit is available, disposable cash. But that won't be the case forever. I imagine in another few years when I am making bigger amounts of cash with a masters (hopefully), I'll have more cash devoted to my hobby and then will be more than willing to pluck down $100 or more on random curiosities about series I have heard about. But for now I have little intention. I just don't like outright saying I won't like it is a definite until I die. But, it's your peeve, I respect that.

You people? What does that mean?

It sounds like you're lumping pretentious, indie snobs and people who like a variety of things into the same category. Big no-no. I like fluff. I read X-Men, for crissakes.

And I don't. I haven't read a core X-MEN title for long in years. I also haven't attempted to "call you" on it when you don't read, like, one book that I do. Like I don't get on your rear for reading that and not Cooke's THE SPIRIT. But we have different styles. I don't confront people to try to get them to read books I like.

But just like my tastes in music, movies, books and television, my tastes in comics are varied. I just have a hard time getting into the mindset of people who like the same thing in every form of entertainment.

That's why it's so ironic for you to agree with a writer, who criticizes people for being not being accepting to new ideas, when you're one of those people yourself. You just apply what he said to a smaller scale. You take comics as whole and you apply it to big time superhero books as a whole. That misses the point of Seagle's argument.

I agreed with his statements in terms of smaller Marvel books that cash, and yes I know it isn't exactly the same as indie's or Vertigo's. More on explaining "the mindset" in a sec.

So, you are basically saying, because I "am" the type of comic fan Seagle is rallying against, I should NOT agree with his statement out of, what, logical rules? People are illogical. I've never once tried to claim all my actions and feelings make 100% rational sense.

Look at the two books you mentioned. D5 and Invincible. Both tights books. Comics as a whole to smaller scale superhero books. That's exactly what I'm talking about. It's not really about popular versus indie, is it? It's really about you being completely content with exactly one genre of book. That's so crazy, to me. I mean, if I only read crime noir, I'd go nuts. I don't how "you people" do it.

The best way to explain the "mindset" is perhaps to borrow a bit from an article that I read on The 9th Art.com a year or so ago. Other genres, like horror, crime noir, crime drama, westerns, sci-fi thrillers, zombies, etc. are well represented, and in some cases over-represented, by TV shows, movies, and other verions of media. Those versions are easier to access and cheaper in terms of a quick fix. If I am in the mood for a zombie story, I can spent $80 catching up on HC's and Trades for THE WALKING DEAD...or I can walk a few blocks to BLOCKBUSTER, pay $5, and rent a movie. Or I can catch one on cable for less. You can apply this to other genres, like Westerns, crime noir (hell, a million classics on AMC handle that), and so on.

Many comics handle these genres, even if they aren't the "bread and butter" of the industry (due to history, built in expectations, [INSERT YOUR FACT OR THEORY HERE], etc). But OTHER media, easier to access media, cheaper media, also heavily coves those genres.

Superheroes, by and large, are NOT handled well by other mediums. Heck, until recently, most Comic based films were heavilly ridiculed and terrible; some would say they still are with a few exceptions. Mainstream comics are the de-facto place to go to for superheroes that CANNOT be easily replicated the same way by the mass media.

And you have a kick to take things overly personal and drag them out even after the discussion has ended and apologies are doled out like welfare checks on the first of the month. We all have our shortcomings.

That said, I don't really care if you personally never pick up a Vertigo title in your life. I was just using you as an example for my opinion. No hard feelings, honest.

I know. I can think I see where you're coming from; you're approaching my feelings and behavior on an overly logical level and going, "waitaminute, this doesn't wash". But, humans are usually illogical. Didn't all those episodes of Star Trek engrain this fact?

 

[PhotoJones]

Stop catching feelings.

The only I catch is...uh...what's something cool to catch?

 

[Dread]

So what we've learned so far is, Dread is a close minded *******, and Photojones2 is a pretentious snobby *****. Lets watch what happens next, shall we?

Actually, I did find this post amusing.

 

[Darthphere]

The only I catch is...uh...what's something cool to catch?

Ho's?

 

[Darthphere]

I was expecting a full on ribbing and all I got was a Darthphere quip.

Really?

 

[Dread]

Really?

You said I ***** too much, I said I was trying to be objective and critical, and I think it led to beliving that movie reviewers should be called "movie *****ers" or something.

Good times.

 

[Darthphere]

You said I ***** too much, I said I was trying to be objective and critical, and I think it led to beliving that movie reviewers should be called "movie *****ers" or something.

Good times.

LAWL! Oh yeah.

 

[PhotoJones]

I doubt you did. I was just in the mood to rant about those empty "mannerly" sorts of things people say all the time, but either don't mean it or they are B.S. Like in the customer service biz when every clerk says, "Have a nice day" or those big box stores that have "greeters" at the door who ask about you. I know they don't care. They know they don't care. They're reading from a rules sheet. But it happens anyway. That sort of stuff is usually my pet peeve. On a simular vein is when people say, "No offense" or whatnot, before they says something that is exactly that. I probably do it too, because I hate confrontations, but privately it irks me.

It wasn't personal.

My favorites are the "I'm a good Christian man/woman" and "May God bless you, you're so generous. Surely His light will shine unto you," from the bums that ask me for money every single damn time I walk up to corner market for milk. Just once, I'd like someone to be straight with me and explain that they don't give a rat's ass about religion because they're hungry and they need a 40.

"****" you? Uh, no thanks.

Fair enough. I don't like some fluffy smalltalk customs and you're prefer I don't say I'd "get around" to something when I probably won't. Gotcha.

(While on the CA subject, I am still disappointed and bewildered I didn't get the amount of flack I expected when I essentially pulled an about face, admited I was wrong, and then have full on gushed about it ever since. I mean that is like a bullseye to lob stuff at me. Nothing warrents punishment on a message board than an outspoken poster having/choosing to admit fault. I was expecting a full on ribbing and all I got was a Darthphere quip. The only reason I could fathom was there was some sort of theory that bashing someone after they actually listen to a recommendation and admit to enjoying it isn't a good way to reinforce listening in the future. But now I'M being too logical. )

I say that because I don't eliminate the possibility of EVER buying said comics. Currently my limit is available, disposable cash. But that won't be the cash. I imagine in another few years when I am making bigger amounts of cash with a masters (hopefully), I'll have more cash devoted to my hobby and then will be more than willing to pluck down $100 or more on random curiosities about series I have heard about. But for now I have little intention. I just don't like outright saying I won't like it is a definite until I die. But, it's your peeve, I respect that.

I don't know what to say. That was the most level headed, logical thing I think you've ever said to me in one of these "quote marathons". For what it's worth, my respect-o-meter just went crazy.

And I don't. I haven't read a core X-MEN title for long in years. I also haven't attempted to "call you" on it when you don't read, like, one book that I do. Like I don't get on your rear for reading that and not Cooke's THE SPIRIT. But we have different styles. I don't confront people to try to get them to read books I like.

Sure, you do. In your own way, you so. You're not very silent about your distaste for the market's unkindess towards The Loners, and you've placed your share of blame on the ignorant fanboy.

I agreed with his statements in terms of smaller Marvel books that cash, and yes I know it isn't exactly the same as indie's or Vertigo's. More on explaining "the mindset" in a sec.

So, you are basically saying, because I "am" the type of comic fan Seagle is rallying against, I should NOT agree with his statement out of, what, logical rules? People are illogical. I've never once tried to claim all my actions and feelings make 100% rational sense.

I never said you tried to make claim. I just pointed out the irony in your agreement with Seagle.

The best way to explain the "mindset" is perhaps to borrow a bit from an article that I read on The 9th Art.com a year or so ago. Other genres, like horror, crime noir, crime drama, westerns, sci-fi thrillers, zombies, etc. are well represented, and in some cases over-represented, by TV shows, movies, and other verions of media. Those versions are easier to access and cheaper in terms of a quick fix. If I am in the mood for a zombie story, I can spent $80 catching up on HC's and Trades for THE WALKING DEAD...or I can walk a few blocks to BLOCKBUSTER, pay $5, and rent a movie. Or I can catch one on cable for less. You can apply this to other genres, like Westerns, crime noir (hell, a million classics on AMC handle that), and so on.

Many comics handle these genres, even if they aren't the "bread and butter" of the industry (due to history, built in expectations, [INSERT YOUR FACT OR THEORY HERE], etc). But OTHER media, easier to access media, cheaper media, also heavily coves those genres.

Superheroes, by and large, are NOT handled well by other mediums. Heck, until recently, most Comic based films were heavilly ridiculed and terrible; some would say they still are with a few exceptions. Mainstream comics are the de-facto place to go to for superheroes that CANNOT be easily replicated the same way by the mass media.

So, the only reason you only buy superhero books is because their not represented enough in other forms of media? Um. Okay.

I know. I can think I see where you're coming from; you're approaching my feelings and behavior on an overly logical level and going, "waitaminute, this doesn't wash". But, humans are usually illogical. Didn't all those episodes of Star Trek engrain this fact?

Logic is 9.9 times out of 10 the best route to take. And even if you disagree, you can't fault one for pointing out the inconsistencies, factual errors or general lack of common sense that one sees in other people. You seem to be the type to shrug your shoulders with a, "Meh. We're only human." That's all well and good. But, don't be surprised if someone else displays those other human tendencies, too.

P.S. I've never seen a single episode of Star Trek.

P.P.S. Who the **** is Ronny Shade?

 

[Darthphere]

Ronny Shade is the greatest poster to have ever posted on here. He is also the greatest fake asian man in the history of mankind.

 

[Dread]

My favorites are the "I'm a good Christian man/woman" and "May God bless you, you're so generous. Surely His light will shine unto you," from the bums that ask me for money every single damn time I walk up to corner market for milk. Just once, I'd like someone to be straight with me and explain that they don't give a rat's ass about religion because they're hungry and they need a 40.

PRECISELY! I hate that crap, too. You got it.

I don't know what to say. That was the most level headed, logical thing I think you've ever said to me in one of these "quote marathons". For what it's worth, my respect-o-meter just went crazy.

Go me!

Sure, you do. In your own way, you so. You're not very silent about your distaste for the market's unkindess towards The Loners, and you've placed your share of blame on the ignorant fanboy.

But I have never went after some posters who DIDN'T read it, looked at what they say they buy in the B/T, and go, "Dude, why are you wasting money on ______ when you'd love THE LONERS and it is a million times better?", or words to that effect. Or at least I do so less often than some other posters.

I never said you tried to make claim. I just pointed out the irony in your agreement with Seagle.

Fair enough.

Surely, though, there have to be better hobbies out there, or cures for insomnia, than pointing out Dread's Ironies.

So, the only reason you only buy superhero books is because their not represented enough in other forms of media? Um. Okay.

That and superheroes are more my bag for comics, but since you already decided that was close-minded, I went for a larger theory that I also say is true. Many other genres besides superhero ones aren't handled as well or lack the history/continuity than the mainstream stuff. Many of the areas that smaller imprints handle are well represented by the larger media. That was a theory on why smaller comics that tackle genres that should be popular, like horror or urban noir, don't sell in the same figures as SPIDEY SUPER STORIES did or something.

Logic is 9.9 times out of 10 the best route to take. And even if you disagree, you can't fault one for pointing out the inconsistencies, factual errors or general lack of common sense that one sees in other people. You seem to be the type to shrug your shoulders with a, "Meh. We're only human." That's all well and good. But, don't be surprised if someone else displays those other human tendencies, too.

Uh, I won't.

P.S. I've never seen a single episode of Star Trek.

Ah. Let's say that sometimes parents try to imprint upon their kids their religious beliefs, and other parents their personal hobbies. My parent tried both. So I saw my fair share of "It's Dead, Jim!" or "Make it so, Number One!" episodes as a kid.