Civil War Sharon carter A.K.A. Agent 13 - Part 3

[ScarlettW]

It's not just lacking any powers, but Sharon is an outsider with zero attachment to the Avengers. Adding Sharon to the airport scene wouldn't have raised the steaks or are anything interesting or unique to that awesome 17 minute splash panel fight. Civil War is a story about friends fighting friends.

So is T'Challa, Ant Man and Spider Man. These are all new characters, two of them didn't even know what was happening.

Sharon knew and she is part of the Captain America universe, it would make sense to her be at the airport fight or at least know what happened to her, but she was reduced to help Cap in things he could do + kiss.

 

[Voltron]

So is T'Challa, Ant Man and Spider Man. These are all new characters, two of them didn't even know what was happening.

Sharon knew and she is part of the Captain America universe, it would make sense to her be at the airport fight or at least know what happened to her, but she was reduced to help Cap in things he could do + kiss.

And she was in the airport fight scene in the original storyboard and concept design.

For the umpteenth time, F the Russos with their, "we could not have made CW without Spiderman". After seeing CW aka Avengers 2.5, that was complete B.S.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

With this logic Sharon shouldn't have been in the movie at all. What she added interesting or unique to it?
Spidey, Panther and Ant-Man were not friends to anyone. They were added to make friends and connections for the future films. If the creators had any plans for the future of Sharon, they should have had her in the fight, doing something really important, they should have written her as interesting and capable at least one bit, not some made-up nonsense like stealing shield and wings, which Cap and Falcon were totally capable of doing themselves. But instead of it, she vanished altogether after the kiss, showing that her only purpose is being a girl for the kisses.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

And she was in the airport fight scene in the original storyboard and concept design.

For the umpteenth time, F the Russos with their, "we could not have made CW without Spiderman". After seeing CW aka Avengers 2.5, that was complete B.S.

The funny thing is Cap and his associate characters get the short end of the stick in CA:CW. Both Sharon and Rumlow should have had a bigger role in the Cap 3 movie.

It was supposed to be Cap movie but in the end it was an Avengers movie. Something must be wrong when I feel more about IM than Capt. America in a Cap movie. It just didn't feel like a Cap movie at all. Heck I feel CA:CW is a better Iron Man movie than a Cap movie.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

One thing I want to point out, but the reason Team Cap was in the airport, wasn't to confront Team Iron Man. They were trying to go to Russia and deal with the Winter Soldiers.

The Winter Soldiers who they suspected would be unleashed to do something terrible. In that regards, it makes sense for Sharon, who works in counter terrorism to join them.

Or hell, she'd at least try to be investigating "the psychiatrist".

But she didn't, because... reasons?

 

[Voltron]

The funny thing is Cap and his associate characters get the short end of the stick in CA:CW. Both Sharon and Rumlow should have had a bigger role in the Cap 3 movie.

It was supposed to be Cap movie but in the end it was an Avengers movie. Something must be wrong when I feel more about IM than Capt. America in a Cap movie. It just didn't feel like a Cap movie at all. Heck I feel CA:CW is a better Iron Man movie than a Cap movie.

I forgot about Crossbones! I'm so peeved that it wasn't Sharon that got to fight Crossbones, I really thought she'd get her pay back after what happened in the launch room when he knifed her, it would've been a full circle, DAMN YOU RUSSOS for replacing Sharon with BW! I really wanted to see Crossbones and Agent 13 fight each other like in the COMICS!

Like enough with IM, RDJ-IM got a complete 3 movie franchise focusing just on IM alone!

 

[Voltron]

One thing I want to point out, but the reason Team Cap was in the airport, wasn't to confront Team Iron Man. They were trying to go to Russia and deal with the Winter Soldiers.

The Winter Soldiers who they suspected would be unleashed to do something terrible. In that regards, it makes sense for Sharon, who works in counter terrorism to join them.

Or hell, she'd at least try to be investigating "the psychiatrist".

But she didn't, because... reasons?

THIS! THIS! THIS! Sharon had every right to be in that airport fight more than Ant-Man, and Spiderman!

Also EVC is an athletic actress due to her sporty and dancing background, they totally wasted her by not getting her to kick ass particularly Crossbones', instead they got stumpy, unathletic, can't-run-properly-it's-so-obvious-it's-not-ScarJo-doing-the-stunts ScarJo to have all the cool choreographed female stunts.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I forgot about Crossbones! I'm so peeved that it wasn't Sharon that got to fight Crossbones, I really thought she'd get her pay back after what happened in the launch room when he knifed her, it would've been a full circle, DAMN YOU RUSSOS for replacing Sharon with BW! I really wanted to see Crossbones and Agent 13 fight each other like in the COMICS!

Like enough with IM, RDJ-IM got a complete 3 movie franchise focusing just on IM alone!

 

[Zant]

THIS! THIS! THIS! Sharon had every right to be in that airport fight more than Ant-Man, and Spiderman!

Also EVC is an athletic actress due to her sporty and dancing background, they totally wasted her by not getting her to kick ass particularly Crossbones', instead they got stumpy, unathletic, can't-run-properly-it's-so-obvious-it's-not-ScarJo-doing-the-stunts ScarJo to have all the cool choreographed female stunts.

Hey man that harsh, but seriously, Scarjo's stunt double is awesome and deserves recognition.

 

[Mike5575]

So is T'Challa, Ant Man and Spider Man. These are all new characters, two of them didn't even know what was happening.

Sharon knew and she is part of the Captain America universe, it would make sense to her be at the airport fight or at least know what happened to her, but she was reduced to help Cap in things he could do + kiss.

As I said, it's not just about lacking powers, and also has no connection to the Avengers. At least Ant-Man has powers. Black Widow has no powers, but at least she's an Avenger. That counts for something. Ant-Man and Spider-Man are two very powerful heroes who contributed a lot to the fight. Black Panther is an interesting third party who complicates things. He is also given a strong character arc in the film as he is the first character to break the vicious cycle of violence.

 

[C. Lee]

Attention everyone....the next person who posts a snarky comment about another poster instead of talking about Agent 13 gets time off.

 

[NHawk19]

Sharon was basically feeding them intel from the C.I.A. Think of her like a watered down Oracle.

She gave Cap Bucky's whereabouts, she got Cap & Falcon some access to listen to the interview, and their stuff back without violence, she I'm assuming setup the Quinn Jet, and I'm sure she had something to do with Cap getting back on the Raft. Cap lost most of his resources when he quit the Avengers. She's pretty much his source now.

She didn't need to be in the fight because she was behind the scenes as backup for Cap.

 

[Rote]

Sharon was basically feeding them intel from the C.I.A. Think of her like a watered down Oracle.

She gave Cap Bucky's whereabouts, she got Cap & Falcon some access to listen to the interview, and their stuff back without violence, she I'm assuming setup the Quinn Jet, and I'm sure she had something to do with Cap getting back on the Raft. Cap lost most of his resources when he quit the Avengers. She's pretty much his source now.

She didn't need to be in the fight because she was behind the scenes as backup for Cap.

I'm pretty sure, Sharon had nothing to do with the Quinn Jet. It belonged to the Avengers. And the CIA had nothing to do with General Ross really. Ross worked in USA, Sharon in Berlin ' JTTF. Also at that time she must have been on the run already anyway. If somebody could have helped Steve with the Raft, it was Panther or Natasha. BP is his source now, instead of Stark.
Sharon hasn't done anything really important, that Cap and Falcon couldn't have done themselves. Yes, she gave him intel on Bucky, but in the end TChalla had found him too without any intel at all. With Bucky's abilities, he wouldn't have been dead so soon, just because Steve's help came 5 minutes later.
Sharon's "help" was entirely made-up and superfluous, because she couldn't just stand in the corner and be pretty, the creators just didn't know, what to give her to do. Even Maria Hill helped Cap much more in TWS, saving his life, leading to Fury and infiltrating SHIELD's headquarters with him, helping with Project Insight.
So, yes, she should have been in the airport, trying to help with the 5 WS's case or at least do something really interesting or important. She was in the counter terrorism department, what actual job did she do, except betraying people she worked for? But she was reduced to a useless LI device instead. If the Russos aren't interested in the character a one bit or don't really like the actress to give her a decent role like Falcon and Bucky, they should have cut her from the already overstuffed movie entirely. Do well or don't do at all.

 

[MbJ]

Also EVC is an athletic actress due to her sporty and dancing background, they totally wasted her by not getting her to kick ass particularly Crossbones', instead they got stumpy, unathletic, can't-run-properly-it's-so-obvious-it's-not-ScarJo-doing-the-stunts ScarJo to have all the cool choreographed female stunts.

I guess that's why they cast gymnasts and wrestlers as all the MCU characters, right? Nobody gives a crap about actors having stunt doubles.

 

[ScarlettW]

Sharon was basically feeding them intel from the C.I.A. Think of her like a watered down Oracle.

She gave Cap Bucky's whereabouts, she got Cap & Falcon some access to listen to the interview, and their stuff back without violence, she I'm assuming setup the Quinn Jet, and I'm sure she had something to do with Cap getting back on the Raft. Cap lost most of his resources when he quit the Avengers. She's pretty much his source now.

She didn't need to be in the fight because she was behind the scenes as backup for Cap.

She was in the race. Cap tells her she needs to run because they will come after her. She's probably in the wanted list. I don't think he would came in contact with her soon after what happened, more likely T'Challa have helped Steve on getting to the raft.
In fact, the post-credit scene is the revelation of how he managed to reach the raft, with the help of T'Challa.

Steve and Falcon knew about Quin Jett, they were Avengers, they know where everything is.

 

[ScarlettW]

As I said, it's not just about lacking powers, and also has no connection to the Avengers. At least Ant-Man has powers. Black Widow has no powers, but at least she's an Avenger. That counts for something. Ant-Man and Spider-Man are two very powerful heroes who contributed a lot to the fight. Black Panther is an interesting third party who complicates things. He is also given a strong character arc in the film as he is the first character to break the vicious cycle of violence.

My point is that it's a Captain America film, I know that in the end is another Avengers with Cap in the center but is still called Captain America: Civil War, not Avengers: Civil War. By a Cap film, characters of his universe deserved more attention.
If it is ok to have new characters with or without powers that are not part of his universe, then it's ok to have a character who came from the universe of the title character in the airport fight.

 

[NHawk19]

I'm pretty sure, Sharon had nothing to do with the Quinn Jet. It belonged to the Avengers. And the CIA had nothing to do with General Ross really. Ross worked in USA, Sharon in Berlin ' JTTF. Also at that time she must have been on the run already anyway. If somebody could have helped Steve with the Raft, it was Panther or Natasha. BP is his source now, instead of Stark.
Sharon hasn't done anything really important, that Cap and Falcon couldn't have done themselves. Yes, she gave him intel on Bucky, but in the end TChalla had found him too without any intel at all. With Bucky's abilities, he wouldn't have been dead so soon, just because Steve's help came 5 minutes later.
Sharon's "help" was entirely made-up and superfluous, because she couldn't just stand in the corner and be pretty, the creators just didn't know, what to give her to do. Even Maria Hill helped Cap much more in TWS, saving his life, leading to Fury and infiltrating SHIELD's headquarters with him, helping with Project Insight.
So, yes, she should have been in the airport, trying to help with the 5 WS's case or at least do something really interesting or important. She was in the counter terrorism department, what actual job did she do, except betraying people she worked for? But she was reduced to a useless LI device instead. If the Russos aren't interested in the character a one bit or don't really like the actress to give her a decent role like Falcon and Bucky, they should have cut her from the already overstuffed movie entirely. Do well or don't do at all.

There's an Avengers logo on everything out there they own. I didn't see one on the Quinn Jet. Therefore I'm assuming that's not what Tony's team arrived in and I'm also assuming it's not Avengers property since there are only two Avengers Bases both in New York and not in Germany.

Since it was parked in a hanger my original thought was lost after the fall of SHIELD or part of a US Agency that works outside the US i.e. CIA. Given that Sharon is now in Germany she could find one if it's CIA. Remember Falcon had to find it on his goggles because Hawkeye's statement was that he had lined up a Helicopter originally.

T'Challa had access to the same intel Cap had just a little later. That's why he got there after the raid. Cap had a headstart and I'm assuming T'Challa was there in case the raid failed so he could seek his vengeance. He didn't go search for Bucky on his own.

She was in the race. Cap tells her she needs to run because they will come after her. She's probably in the wanted list. I don't think he would came in contact with her soon after what happened, more likely T'Challa have helped Steve on getting to the raft.
In fact, the post-credit scene is the revelation of how he managed to reach the raft, with the help of T'Challa.

Steve and Falcon knew about Quin Jett, they were Avengers, they know where everything is.

Question is how did Steve and Falcon know? Like I said it wasn't marked as an Avengers Quinn Jet.

She may be better off "hiding" at the CIA.

In the after credits scene Cap and T'Challa only speak about T'Challa helping Bucky find piece. Not about a raid on the Raft. I'm not saying T'Challa didn't help but I am saying he's not US government. Sharon is though. And she's counter terrorism. So some of her big bads from around the globe may end up there. If it was built by Stark Industries for SHEILD originally then it's construction docs may have been leaked/procured by Widow as well then provided to Cap via a channel with Sharon. Remember she's really tight with Clint.

She's not completely useless she's just not powered, and doesn't have gadgets so she's better suited for espionage than a brawl.

 

[ScarlettW]

There's an Avengers logo on everything out there they own. I didn't see one on the Quinn Jet. Therefore I'm assuming that's not what Tony's team arrived in and I'm also assuming it's not Avengers property since there are only two Avengers Bases both in New York and not in Germany.

Since it was parked in a hanger my original thought was lost after the fall of SHIELD or part of a US Agency that works outside the US i.e. CIA. Given that Sharon is now in Germany she could find one if it's CIA. Remember Falcon had to find it on his goggles because Hawkeye's statement was that he had lined up a Helicopter originally.

T'Challa had access to the same intel Cap had just a little later. That's why he got there after the raid. Cap had a headstart and I'm assuming T'Challa was there in case the raid failed so he could seek his vengeance. He didn't go search for Bucky on his own.



Question is how did Steve and Falcon know? Like I said it wasn't marked as an Avengers Quinn Jet.

She may be better off "hiding" at the CIA.

In the after credits scene Cap and T'Challa only speak about T'Challa helping Bucky find piece. Not about a raid on the Raft. I'm not saying T'Challa didn't help but I am saying he's not US government. Sharon is though. And she's counter terrorism. So some of her big bads from around the globe may end up there. If it was built by Stark Industries for SHEILD originally then it's construction docs may have been leaked/procured by Widow as well then provided to Cap via a channel with Sharon. Remember she's really tight with Clint.

She's not completely useless she's just not powered, and doesn't have gadgets so she's better suited for espionage than a brawl.

It's a Avengers QJ. There's a closet with weapons of Natasha Romanoff there. The base is in New York, but they weren't in NY, they were in another country, it shouldn't be the first time they are in Germany, as leader of the Avengers, Steve knew about the location of QJ.

The final scene was to show that Steve saved his friends as he promised, to show that he's a hero, I don't think we'll know how he got there. This is a Cap film, if it had shown him thanking T'Challa, people would say that he saved his friends because of T'Challa, thinking that BP is the hero, not Steve, nobody wants it, of course we know he had help from someone, but this is not the focus.

Wasp may also have helped Steve. She's not linked to the government, they still don't know who she is, she has technology, Scott may have even told her where he was going.

 

[Rote]

There's an Avengers logo on everything out there they own. I didn't see one on the Quinn Jet. Therefore I'm assuming that's not what Tony's team arrived in and I'm also assuming it's not Avengers property since there are only two Avengers Bases both in New York and not in Germany.

Well, then pay attention next time. There were Natasha's guns in the Jet and also it's been said in the movie, that Sam have found "their" (i.e. team IM's) Jet.

T'Challa had access to the same intel Cap had just a little later. That's why he got there after the raid. Cap had a headstart and I'm assuming T'Challa was there in case the raid failed so he could seek his vengeance. He didn't go search for Bucky on his own.

Was it TChalla or Natasha's help, it's unrealistic to think that Sharon could have helped with this:
1) She must be on the run already
2) Carter was not any kind of boss of any department, while Raft is a TOP SECRET prison for the superhumans, having nothing to do with what Sharon and Everett Ross were doing in counter terrorism in Germany. And no, Sharon is not the US government. Do you really think that every other CIA worker had the access to the top secret info about Raft?

then it's construction docs may have been leaked/procured by Widow as well then provided to Cap via a channel with Sharon. Remember she's really tight with Clint.

Widow could have connected, if she wanted, with Cap herself, she is capable like that.

She's not completely useless she's just not powered, and doesn't have gadgets so she's better suited for espionage than a brawl.

Not really.Sharon managed to help Steve only with the things, which were in her direct responsibility. But when it came to the real villain Zemo, she didn't even try to check, if he is the real doctor, who was supposed to interrogate Bucky. She did nothing with the real threat. She was among those, who didn't do their work well, so nobody even know, how the doctor is supposed to look like. It's just stupid and irresponsible.

Anyway, after watching Doctor Strange I'm more convinced, than ever, that the main problem is VanCamp. MacAdams is an example that a good actress can manage to make even small and rather thankless role really vivid, interesting and memorable, having a good chemistry with the male lead.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Maybe if Scarjo was a good actress, the Brucenat wouldn't have been excruciating to watch.

 

[Mike5575]

Maybe if Scarjo was a good actress, the Brucenat wouldn't have been excruciating to watch.

Hahahaha! You mean a good actress, like EVC? Yeah, I don't think so. After boring performances in two Marvel films, back to doing tv shows she goes. I'll admit, Black Widow isn't my favorite character!p, but that's just the character. I liked her performance as Esther Williams in Hail Caesar a lot more than Black Widow. Though, I do think Widow was at her best in the two Captain America movies and I loved her scenes with Cap, especially the bedroom scene. Brutasha was always a mess. Blame bad writing for that. Its all Whedon's fault.

This is now a Scarjo/Black Widow Thread.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Brutasha was always a mess. Blame bad writing for that. Its all Whedon's fault.

According to Rote, a good actress can make any role work.

Are you saying Rote is wrong?

Either that or there's apparently some kind of double standard here.

 

[Mike5575]

According to Rote, a good actress can make any role work.

Are you saying Rote is wrong?

Either that or there's apparently some kind of double standard here.

Well, according to me, Rote's opinion doesn't matter at all to me.

I was replying to YOU. I am not interested in something someone else said.

If there's any double standard, then I have no idea what it is. You may have to fill me in.

Anyways, to answer your question, any successful film hinges on three things: a solid script, great actors, and directors. A very talented actor can't save a poorly directed film. The actor may be able to make it more bearable than it should have been, but he's not saving it. Mark Wahlberg is an excellent actor, but Transformers still sucked.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

I was replying to YOU.

Well I was replying to Rote.

If there's any double standard, then I have no idea what it is. You may have to fill me in.

The double standard is that that Brucenat was excruciating to watch and Whedon is blamed entirely and no one claims that a better actress would have made it work.

But Staron is rushed and Sharon is underdeveloped and the Russos stans bend all logic so none of it was their idols fault.

Mark Wahlberg is an excellent actor

For posterity.

 

[Mike5575]

Well I was replying to Rote.



The double standard is that that Brucenat was excruciating to watch and Whedon is blamed entirely and no one claims that a better actress would have made it work.

But Staron is rushed and Sharon is underdeveloped and the Russos stans bend all logic so none of it was their idols fault.



For posterity.

There is no double standard. An actor can only work with what they got. A poorly directed movie is going to suck.

There is no need to bend logic. Sharon was given the miniscule role because they clearly weren't as invested in the character as much as others. They made the film they wanted to make. You either liked it or you didn't. Doctor Strange comes out in a couple of days, which reminds me that you and the other guy have been complaining about this for 6+ months. The rest of the Civil War forum is pretty much dead. Don't you think it's time to move on?