Civil War Sharon carter A.K.A. Agent 13 - Part 3

[Mike5575]

Peggy wasn't in the scene in the original script. Hayley Atwell read the script and asked Joss to be in the nightmare scene. He changed the scene because of her.

Well, not exactly.

http://screenrant.com/the-avengers-2-hayley-atwell-peggy-carter/

“We went out drinking one night and he was like, ‘You know, it would be great to write something for you. And I was like , ‘Yes, Joss, it would! It would be amazing!'”

 

[Rote]

Steve still was thinking about Peggy, yes, but his dream was not about her. From Whedon's audiocommentary for the AoU about Steve's vision:

Cap is the guy who can't stop seeing war, even at a party for the end of the war.
Who, when asked to imagine a life of normalcy, comes up with nothing. Which, by the way, was Drew Goddard's idea.
Cap is incapable of being a part of the community he's constantly talking about.

He still could call Sharon if he wanted. He even told Bruce, that he waited too long. It's CW, that showed Steve not being able to move on from Peggy, not AoU.

IIRC, M&M even said somewhere that they loved Steve's arc in AoU.

 

[Stevie2020]

The AoU nightmare was about PTSD. His is magnified by additional loss of familiar surroundings and everything he might have considered home due to being frozen. But Steve deals with it by becoming a super soldier workaholic. He puts so much energy into that he is hard pressed to settle into a normal life.

He wouldn't have gone out of his way to call Sharon.

The AoU vision suggests that Scarlet Witch prodded his emotional core and made him feel that pain and he was temporarily crippled by it.

 

[ScarlettW]

Well, not exactly.

http://screenrant.com/the-avengers-2-hayley-atwell-peggy-carter/

I'm sorry for my mistake. I thought I read that she was the one who asked. Anyway, it's a Joss mistake because he did GA thought Steve still had feelings for Peggy.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Like what another poster said earlier, that aunt Peggy bought me my first gun holster was just bad writing. The problem with EVC is that her performance can be on the inconsistent side. But like I said I thought the eulogy and elevator scene was good. Her whisper-talking and this tight-lip-jaw thing she does at times bugs me. You'd think that her acting would've improved and gained range like Chris Pratt's has since Everwood. I agree they should've just given her Hill's parts in TWS because Sharon/Fury in the comics were close anyway.

I could only watch half of Lucy before I finally gave up. Watch Under the Skin or don't, which is Scarjo playing emotionless Black Widow talking with a British accent.


Thanks a lot Joss . Instead of a Peggy nightmare it should've been a Bucky nightmare Steve has in AoU.

I keep meaning to watch Under the Skin. I've heard mostly good things, but I still haven't gotten around to seeing it. Although I'm always a bit wary of ScarJo as an actress, especially in indie stuff. Lost in Translation has to be the most overrated pile of nothing ever made.

 

[Voltron]

I keep meaning to watch Under the Skin. I've heard mostly good things, but I still haven't gotten around to seeing it. Although I'm always a bit wary of ScarJo as an actress, especially in indie stuff. Lost in Translation has to be the most overrated pile of nothing ever made.

If you didn't like LiT than I don't think you'll like UtS. UtS is an artsy movie meaning mostly quiet staring into nothingness type movie. I thought it was ok for an artsy movie. Scarjo plays an emotionless alien who gets completely naked a few times to trap her preys well.

 

[Voltron]

The AoU nightmare was about PTSD. His is magnified by additional loss of familiar surroundings and everything he might have considered home due to being frozen. But Steve deals with it by becoming a super soldier workaholic. He puts so much energy into that he is hard pressed to settle into a normal life.

He wouldn't have gone out of his way to call Sharon.

The AoU vision suggests that Scarlet Witch prodded his emotional core and made him feel that pain and he was temporarily crippled by it.

Peeved that CW didn't explain how Sam recognized Sharon in the church. This strongly implies that Sharon and Cap/Sam have met up after the events of TWS. Really a quarter-arsed job Marvel has done with Sharon and Staron, I mean there was no continuity with the coffee or the phone call. What ever happened to M/M wanting to tackle Sharon's "meaty" arc. The aunt Peggy bought me my first thigh holster dialogue and kissing scene dialogue could've been written better, I don't know maybe draw from the bountiful 50 years of source materials!

 

[Stevie2020]

In my head ( because it is so underwritten that one must fill the void ) Sam and Steve ran into SC at some point while tracking down leads on TWS. Sam was intrigued that there seemed to be interest but no " connecting" and Sam being Sam filed it away for later. (Because Sam understands fully that Steve is developmentally arrested romantically. )

She how hard Marvel makes us work?

Seriously though I do feel there were some significant glossed-over dialogue issues with Staron which may or may not make sense when the inevitable deleted scene(s) is or are released.

It seems clear there was some uncertainty/indecision about how to portray the character and that relationship in CW. Sharon could have been given more to do even if Staron doesn't seem to have been considered a critical element. She could have had Hobbit Everret Ross' scenes in addition to her own (add a longing look instead of the awkward kiss), She'd have a better wardrobe, actual authority to release their gear, and more motivation to tear into Zemo at the end when he was in custody.

 

[Rowsdower!]

If you didn't like LiT than I don't think you'll like UtS. UtS is an artsy movie meaning mostly quiet staring into nothingness type movie. I thought it was ok for an artsy movie. Scarjo plays an emotionless alien who gets completely naked a few times to trap her preys well.

LOL, so basically, it's arthouse Species?

 

[ScarlettW]

I thought Sam knew Sharon because at some point in WS he met her while visiting Steve.
In the end, Natasha said to Steve to call Sharon, Sam heard and ask who is Sharon and Steve told the story about his neighbor.

 

[Herolee10]

I hate to be brutal, but I see "Arrow" on having a better chance in becoming an critically acclaimed show again than Emily's Sharon Carter becoming an prominent character in this universe...especially when it comes to her relationship with Steve Rogers.

She just has way too many things against her character. She's the grand-niece of Steve's former Love Interest and that aspect in itself seems to be creepy enough where a lot of people don't want to get invested in the ship. And not only is she the grand-niece of Steve's Former Love Interest, but she's the grand niece of Peggy Carter, one of the MCU's most popular female characters.

Not only that, but when you have other female leads like Black Widow and Scarlet Witch running around and stealing the spotlight, it makes it even harder on Sharon's character, who has somewhat failed in grabbing audiences's attention as a character on her own (which we can't really blame her completely on since she hasn't had the luxury of being in multiple MCU films).

At this point, you probably have a better chance of also having MCU introduce another love interest for Steve, similar to what they're doing with Thor and how they so easily got rid of Jane.

 

[Rote]

I very much doubt they have any intent to continue this lackluster affair with Sharon after CW, because of the way it was depicted in CW. Unfortunately, I have lost a link to the source, it must be somewhere from tumbler, but this is actually a pretty interesting analysis from a person who likes Sharon's character:

Spoiler

I thought that Sharon was an awesome character in this–clearly pursuing her own goals and making her own choices, and balancing her determination to keep her job and work within the system with her sympathy for and loyalty to Steve. That was great. What was not great was… if… this… was supposed to… show them developing a relationship…? That kiss over the trunk of her car was the most “um okay contract says we have to put a kiss in the movie somewhere, how about–there? yeah, okay. NOW KISS.”
And it was especially startling because of how much it contrasted with the pairings I actually DID come out of the movie shipping–Wanda/Vision and, in more of a “I really want them to have sex but an actual relationship would clearly be COMPLICATED” way, Natasha/T’Challa. Because it’s clearly not that the Russos can’t write inviting subtext for a het relationship or are hostile to developing those relationships across the board; it seemed like they just. really. were not interested in encouraging anyone to ship Steve/Sharon.

(And I want to say again: If you do, Godspeed, friend! I know it’s a really important ship in the comics, and if you want to work with what they gave us in these movies, go for it, Sharon is awesome, Steve is awesome, they are certainly two people who deserve to be having lots of happy excellent sex and love and affection, and if you think they should get that from each other, great! But WOW the Russos did not really put their backs into selling it.)

So like: look at how Vision and Wanda’s relationship is introduced. Literally the first thing we see Vision do is ghost through Wanda’s bedroom wall, and she replies by exasperatedly calling him Viz and reminding him that they have talked about this. So: they are already on close personal terms with each other. He comes to her bedroom, she has a special nickname for him, and it is very clear that they have been living in close contact and developing a friendship. Additionally, that specific interaction serves to remind us that even though he’s played by grown man Paul Bettany and encompasses the experiences and memories of JARVIS, he’s still new to being human, so he’s not such a mismatch in age with young adult Wanda as he might otherwise seem.
Then: he’s cooking for her! He’s putting effort and thought into pleasing her, which is a sweet gesture! He’s doing it badly, which is also sweet and again emphasizes that he is young and inexperienced, and they have this adorable kitchen interaction that turns Much More Complicated when we realize why he’s trying to entertain her–but it’s still clear that his affection for her is sincere.
Then Wanda needs to get out and has to fight him! And they have obvious feelings about having to go against each other, which again just serves to show how invested in each other they are, and how much affection they already have for each other!
At the end of their big fight sequence, they’re together again, apologizing to each other–and even though they’re separated after that, and neither of them speaks a line during our final glimpses of them, we see each one looking lost in ways that echo each other despite their very different circumstances, and it’s not hard to conclude that at least a part of what each of them is missing is the other. So even though they’re parted, they have this complete arc going from friendship/affection to being forced onto opposite sides to reconciling to being unwillingly parted, and you get to see all of that demonstrate how they feel about each other. And how they feel about each other may or may not be romantic or sexual but look I think we have all worked with a lot less.

ON THE OTHER HAND, Steve and Sharon. Their first interaction, well into the movie, consists of Sharon explaining–while not speaking personally to Steve but addressing an audience of hundreds–why she has never trusted him with mildly private information about herself (that I think a lot of us assumed he would have known or guessed).
Then they have a brief private conversation where she tells him some more about secrets she has kept–ways they have been further apart than Steve even realized, while also making clear that they have had no contact and made no effort to get or stay in touch before this–and then PLOT strikes and they split up to do their jobs without much of a backward glance. From there, Sharon pops up to do Steve a favor, deliver some exposition, and do him another favor–and like I said, she’s a solid character, I like her, and I don’t OBJECT to her winding up with Steve, but nothing in these interactions makes this personal or intimate–it’s all taking place with others around in a way that makes it a very public footing.
(Which is HILARIOUS with the kiss, when it’s Bucky and Sam watching, but their reactions seem infinitely more natural and logical than the kiss itself, which seemed to arise entirely from the fact that they were standing facing each other and ran out of stuff to say? Steve’s line about it being late was… wildly unfounded by anything that has been established between them up to that point.)

And after the kiss, Sharon just VANISHES from the movie, and, evidently, from Steve’s awareness. Which isn’t particularly a criticism of the movie or Steve–her position as a person working within the establishment means her path diverges decisively from Steve’s at that point, and Steve is BUSY. But it does mean that the movie is making nooooo effort to persuade us that Steve has actual feelings about Sharon, or Sharon about Steve, that extend beyond that moment. Again, compare to the whole arc Wanda and Vision get. It would not have been difficult, or taken up much more space, to cast all of this in a different way that would show Steve and Sharon having some connection and growing closer through these events, but… that is not what’s in the movie.

Even Natasha and T’Challa get more of an arc than Steve and Sharon–they meet, flirt, connect on an emotional level immediately after the Vienna bombing. They have these private and somewhat intimate encounters–Natasha recruits T’Challa when they need help. And when she has to betray him to pursue her own priorities and loyalties, it’s obvious that it pains her to do so, and that he feels some degree of betrayal, because the connection they have MEANS something to both of them.

So, uh, in conclusion I think it’s pretty obvious which ships (or male-female relationships, romantic or not) this movie actually wanted us to care about and which… it… did not.

Add to this that they have cut the scene in the bar. Yes, Steve and Sharon were having a date there right after the funeral and it was not appropriate, but Steve's attempt to kiss her was even more inappropriate, but it's still in the movie. Where is logic? I think they knew, that people won't like this ship, so they said: "Whatever, we need the time for more important things".

I'm sorry for my mistake. I thought I read that she was the one who asked. Anyway, it's a Joss mistake because he did GA thought Steve still had feelings for Peggy.

I don't know how else Joss could have possibly handled Steve's vision. It was about not being able to live "normal" life with a woman and children without war or fights. It was represented when Steve tried to imagine kissing Peggy but couldn't. And also I don't believe that it's the worst fear of all, otherwise Tony would have seen dead Pepper instead of dead Steve in his own nightmare.
Also, there was a clear reference to the situation with Tony's parents,but of course Whedon couldn't have spoiled it in a Steve's vision before CW. Stark even says that Steve isn't upset much, so he doesn't have a "dark side":
- I don't trust a guy without a dark side.
- Let's just say you haven't seen it yet.

Civil War on the other hand. It's been two years, Steve hasn't called Sharon after TWS, but wants to make out with her immediately after Peggy's funeral. It's stalemate situation, because they didn't address the elephant in the room - creepiness because of connection with Peggy - in CW and now it's just too late to do it in IW after two years even if Steve will start dating her.

 

[ScarlettW]

The role of Sharon was bigger, she interact with other people, this may also explain why she was initially in the airport scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRUF23OzjMM

 

[Voltron]

In my head ( because it is so underwritten that one must fill the void ) Sam and Steve ran into SC at some point while tracking down leads on TWS. Sam was intrigued that there seemed to be interest but no " connecting" and Sam being Sam filed it away for later. (Because Sam understands fully that Steve is developmentally arrested romantically. )

She how hard Marvel makes us work?

Seriously though I do feel there were some significant glossed-over dialogue issues with Staron which may or may not make sense when the inevitable deleted scene(s) is or are released.

It seems clear there was some uncertainty/indecision about how to portray the character and that relationship in CW. Sharon could have been given more to do even if Staron doesn't seem to have been considered a critical element. She could have had Hobbit Everret Ross' scenes in addition to her own (add a longing look instead of the awkward kiss), She'd have a better wardrobe, actual authority to release their gear, and more motivation to tear into Zemo at the end when he was in custody.

I thought Sam knew Sharon because at some point in WS he met her while visiting Steve.
In the end, Natasha said to Steve to call Sharon, Sam heard and ask who is Sharon and Steve told the story about his neighbor.

I think ScarlettW got it.

I liked the awkward kiss. It shows that Cap is awkward when it comes to women because he'll always be that puny Steve who girls overlooked.

TWS/CW showed that the Russos don't care about Sharon and she got shafted for their other fav Avenger characters. I'm really surprised there's not much Cap comic book readers offended of what the Russos did to Sharon and Staron.

Yeah apparently Staron didn't test well at the CW test screenings. Well it would've tested well if Sharon/Staron was developed in TWS! They could've at least given the fossil banter to Sharon at the hallway to establish that Staron have been friendly and flirty with each other for weeks or months. Like again, use the source material.

Sharon: My aunt she's kind of an insomniac! So how's my fav living fossil doing?
Steve: Alright...So how's my fav nurse doing?

Extra lines adds so much. ARRGGGHHH! Could've been written better, developed better, just plain done better!

LOL, so basically, it's arthouse Species?

Pretty much. It's Species staring into emptiness.

 

[Voltron]

The role of Sharon was bigger, she interact with other people, this may also explain why she was initially in the airport scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRUF23OzjMM

EVC needs to stop with the whisper-talk because Sharon doesn't do whisper-talk unless the scene calls for it because her whisper-talking is inaudible and I always have to rewind with the volume turned up. Maybe this is why I liked the eulogy and hotel elevator scene because she didn't whisper-talk.

 

[MadVillainy]

Yeah apparently Staron didn't test well at the CW test screenings. Well it would've tested well if Sharon/Staron was developed in TWS! They could've at least given the fossil banter to Sharon at the hallway to establish that Staron have been friendly and flirty with each other for weeks or months. Like again, use the source material.

Do you have a link or are you just speculating

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Yeah I find it an unlikely story it tested badly so they removed everything but the kiss.

 

[Rote]

Yeah I find it an unlikely story it tested badly so they removed everything but the kiss.

I think, they could keep the kiss for the Bucky's and Sam's reactions. Everyone loved it.
It's kinda strange that they cut bar scene. There was literally no romance at all in this movie except for the kiss, even Wanda and Vision got much more.


Hayley Atwell really IS the Queen. She nailed it. Every. Single. Point.

Speaking at Dallas Comic Con Fan Expo, Agent Carter star Hayley Atwell jokingly offered up her opinion on what Peggy might have thought about the kiss between Steve Rogers and Peggy's niece, "Agent 13" Sharon Carter (played by Emily VanCamp), in Captain America: Civil War.
"Well, first of all she'd be turning over in her grave," Atwell said, with a grin. "She'd be like 'no.' And she'd inject herself with the blue serum and become a super villain. She'd break out of her coffin and ground [Sharon]. She'd ground her. Then she'd kick Steve's ass as well."
Atwell continued "I just feel that, you know - I wouldn't want to date my great aunt's guy. It just feels like it crosses an incestuous boundary. And Peggy just died. That's even more disrespectful, right? It's like, 'don't touch that."' You can't tap that!"
Atwell then said that she thought Peggy would have been fairly protective of Sharon too, as a close relative. "She'd want the best for her and she'd want her dating a good guy. And now with this whole 'Hail Hydra" business, I don't know if Steve's good enough for her," she said, referring to the new controversial Cap arc from the comics. "So on all levels, it's just a big fat no."

And also she said that she would loved to see Cap with a boyfriend

 

[MadVillainy]

Yeah I find it an unlikely story it tested badly so they removed everything but the kiss.

Exactly. If anything they'd remove the whole thing.

I think the test screening thing is bs

 

[Raiden]

I think, they could keep the kiss for the Bucky's and Sam's reactions. Everyone loved it.
It's kinda strange that they cut bar scene. There was literally no romance at all in this movie except for the kiss, even Wanda and Vision got much more.


Hayley Atwell really IS the Queen. She nailed it. Every. Single. Point.

And also she said that she would loved to see Cap with a boyfriend

I really love Hayley Atwell but I found her reasoning against Steve/Sharon to be ridiculous.

 

[Voltron]

Exactly. If anything they'd remove the whole thing.

I think the test screening thing is bs

You may be right, which is why I said "apparently" when I initially mentioned it.

I really love Hayley Atwell but I found her reasoning against Steve/Sharon to be ridiculous.

It is ridiculous. Because Sharon and Steve fell for each other before Steve knew Sharon was a Carter and before Sharon knew Steve and Peggy had feelings 70 years ago, it wasn't black and white. Also I think Sharon is still isn't aware of Steggy. Someone should show her 50 years of source material.

It's really coming across that Hayley thinks Steve who Peggy kissed once 70 years ago is more important than Peggy's own grand niece, husband, and children telling from her answers.

A fan asked Hayley if she wants to see Sharon play a bigger role in the MCU, she replied with, "No! Absolutely not.....nope.....no I'm joking, but no. When she said she was joking I was expecting her to say yes she does because she was always advocating for more female representation and she made a joke earlier that Evans was ugly, rude then quickly heaped Evans praise right after. There's always truth behind every joke.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I hate to be brutal, but I see "Arrow" on having a better chance in becoming an critically acclaimed show again than Emily's Sharon Carter becoming an prominent character in this universe...especially when it comes to her relationship with Steve Rogers.

She just has way too many things against her character. She's the grand-niece of Steve's former Love Interest and that aspect in itself seems to be creepy enough where a lot of people don't want to get invested in the ship. And not only is she the grand-niece of Steve's Former Love Interest, but she's the grand niece of Peggy Carter, one of the MCU's most popular female characters.
.

There's no problem Steve getting an *actual* relationship with Sharon at this point. While Peggy is a great character, circumstances kept them from even having a first date. Yes, there was an attraction between Peggy and Steve, but their chances as a couple went into the ice with Steve. When Sharon was cast in the MCU, everyone should have known that one of her primary functions was to give Steve a viable chance at love.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

When Sharon was cast in the MCU, everyone should have known that one of her primary functions was to give Steve a viable chance at love.

I don't think most non-comic readers were familiar with any of Cap's supporting characters before they appeared in the movies. After the first film, Peggy is Cap's love interest for many, and Sharon was revealed as her niece in this one. Someone even blurted out "Uncle Steve" during my viewing, causing quite a bit of laughter during the kiss.

 

[Rote]

Atwell has made very legitimate points. They should have shown that Steve is not interested in Sharon just because of Peggy, that she's her own character, they should have made a decent relationship development. Instead they did literally the opposite. It's like they wanted to screw up Staron on purpose.

Because Sharon and Steve fell for each other before Steve knew Sharon was a Carter

Fell for each other? There was nothing between them except when Steve asked her out because NATASHA told him to do so, he even didn't know Sharon as a person at all (and even that doesn't matter much, because Steve has already kissed other women since 1945). And in the end he wasn't interested enough to call her. For TWO YEARS. He just totally forgot about her until PEGGY'S funeral. And in CW he just used Sharon for his purposes, because he could easily steal shield and wings by himself without asking Sharon to risk her job.

There's no problem Steve getting an *actual* relationship with Sharon at this point. While Peggy is a great character, circumstances kept them from even having a first date. Yes, there was an attraction between Peggy and Steve, but their chances as a couple went into the ice with Steve.

You don't measure love with the amount of dates and kisses. Steve loved Peggy, that's what matters.
They have easily got rid of Jane, female lead in 2 movies, they can do the same with Sharon, because people didn't accept Staron and now there is no time to fix it.

 

[regnak]

Hayley is being ridiculous. But I should thank her for making me not care at all that Agent Carter was cancelled. very unprofessional behavior.