Homecoming Should they push things back?

Super Jim

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Alright, let me explain my thoughts...

The fact that we are now at a point where the supposed plans are to first have a Sinister Six movie, prior to the Amazing Spiderman 3 movie, has me more worried about this franchise than ever before.

The truth is that what they've done in TASM1 and 2 is set things up pretty well. I know many aren't huge fans of what we got in TASM2 (let alone 1), but they did get some things right, including the death of Gwen (as I predicted)!

But in looking over the recent rumors, which include:

- The Sinister Six movie in 2016
- The Amazing Spiderman 3 in 2018
- A female-focused spin-off inbetween
- Crossover talks
- A soft "reboot"
- Shelving Spiderman himself for a while
- Canceling the Venom movie

Anyone else now scared of where this franchise is?

Some things to think about:

First, why in Stan Lee's name would you release a Spiderman related movie titled after the villains? That's just plain old stupidity! And to do this with arguably one of the greatest threats Spiderman would ever have to face is even more stupid! Why would you not just make a, I don't know, Spiderman movie, actually calling it a Spiderman movie, with the villains being, I don't know, villains?

Second, how could you even think of throwing a female-focused spin-off in there (and obviously this would be Black Cat - or maybe Silver Sable). Either one would need to first be introduced, and doing so in this Sinister Six travesty would be a mistake! Again, why not have this character first introduced in, I don't know, a Spiderman movie?

Lastly, Venom is one of the best stories ever, but he needs to be set up properly, meaning in previous films. No more of this shove it all into one movie and let it suck! What should happen is that Eddie Brock (YES, EDDIE BROCK!!!!!) needs to be introduced in, I don't know, maybe a Spiderman movie first, which means at least some more Daily Bugle stuff, and his reasoning for hating Spiderman needs to be shown. Then have Venom as the SOLE (or at least main) villain in, I don't know, maybe a Spiderman movie! Then, and only then, in a totally different movie, you have Carnage, where Spiderman must team-up with Venom to take him down, and it would be a Spiderman movie!

This is what makes sense for the Spiderman movie franchise! Not this stupid Sinister Six villains as the main focal and title idea of theirs!!!!!

Anyway, all of these concerns has led me to one conclusion...


They should change all of their plans and push things back!

Now I'm not saying they shouldn't have another Amazing Spiderman movie in 2016. Of course they should, they need to keep the franchise (although with these plan, and what we've gotten, most of us would rather see ownership revert back to Marvel) and they want to make money. But maybe they need to slow down here and go with a different story, which means a different villain.

IMO, they should go with an Amazing Spiderman 3 film in the fall of 2016, but go with the story of Kraven (call it Kraven's Last Hunt if you want - but changed of course - no suicide)! If you really think about it, this makes more sense. Once you do a Sinister Six movie the only thing that could be more epic would be, maybe, Venom and Carnage, so why not hold off, at least a little? Effectively save the S6 for another 2 years. Go with Kraven as the main villain, hired (or enticed) by Osborn to hunt down Spiderman (Osborn still needs Peter's blood). Throw in the symbiote costume (maybe given to Kraven when/if he takes Spiderman's place - or Peter needs it to defeat Kraven - and keeps it into the next movie). Throw in Black Cat as a secondary character who provides the needed sexual tension (but with a masked Spiderman, not Peter). And throw in some more setup for an actual, done right, Amazing Spiderman: The Sinister Six movie!

So my questions for you are:

- Are you worried as well?

- Do you think this idea of having a Sinister Six movie not as a Spiderman movie is a good move?

- Would you rather they slow up a bit and maybe have a movie prior to this whole Sinister Six thing, such as Kraven as the villain?

- Would you rather see the Sinister Six as just the villainous group of a titled Amazing Spiderman movie?
 
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Nah, they screwed up after TASM2. They should reboot again. A spinoff in 2017 gives them until 2021 to make a reboot, so we would forget about TASM2 by then.
 
Should they push things back?

No they shouldn't push things back. They should cancel things. Cancel everything.
 
^ Alright, one stipulation...

Canceling isn't an option. It's not going to heppen, so lets not even let that be a discussion point. We have what we have, with TASM 1 and 2, and we have these plans of Sony.

The choices simply are:

1. They go forward with a Sinister Six villain focused/redeption/minimal Spiderman movie in 2016.

2. They go slower and have a different story, such as one with Kraven, in 2016, and make it an Amazing Spiderman film.

or 3. They turn the planned Sinister SIx movie for 2016 into an Amazing Spiderman movie with the Sinister Six as straight out villains (and not some stupide group of bad guys who need to be redeemed).

Look, I know the choice you guys all want is for the rights to revert to Marvel, I mean Disney, but that's not going to happen. Sony is making $, so they'll continue to make $ with Spiderman, no matter what we want. So, within those confines, what would you like to see?
 
I go with Choice Z. Wait until Sony goes bankrupt.
 
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^ Not an option.

Sony is making $ with Spiderman, and they will continue to make $ with Spiderman, with or without us!
 
I'm definitely worried...

Sony needs to tell us what the hell is going on with their Spidey franchise!

I voted for the second option
You can still do Spidey vs Kraven after the S6 are defeated imo
 
Turn the 2016 movie into Spider-Man vs. The Sinister Six. I don't necessarily think they need to push it back, although they should if Goddard says he needs more time.

The female spinoff, Venom spinoff, and 2018 Webb film should be scrapped. See how Spider-Man vs. Sinister Six does first and base the future plans off of that.
 
^ Alright, one stipulation...

Canceling isn't an option. It's not going to heppen, so lets not even let that be a discussion point. We have what we have, with TASM 1 and 2, and we have these plans of Sony.

The choices simply are:

1. They go forward with a Sinister Six villain focused/redeption/minimal Spiderman movie in 2016.

2. They go slower and have a different story, such as one with Kraven, in 2016, and make it an Amazing Spiderman film.

or 3. They turn the planned Sinister SIx movie for 2016 into an Amazing Spiderman movie with the Sinister Six as straight out villains (and not some stupide group of bad guys who need to be redeemed).

Look, I know the choice you guys all want is for the rights to revert to Marvel, I mean Disney, but that's not going to happen. Sony is making $, so they'll continue to make $ with Spiderman, no matter what we want. So, within those confines, what would you like to see?

I think the problem is none of the choices are good , in terms of this version of the franchise. With this version you're bound to the weak foundation built over ASM 1 and 2, and you're already written into a corner in alot of ways.

However , I think alot of possibilities open up if you reboot. Yes, I know alot of ASM fans don't like the sound of that and don't want that to happen, but if we're realistically talking about options , that's got to be on the table like it or not. I strongly suspect with leasing the character possibly off the table, that a reboot or soft reboot/re cast is on the table for Sony , so I think if we're talking about realistic options we may not like, that's certainly at the top.
 
Oh and Green Goblin should definitely NOT be in Sinister Six. Besides the fact that it should Doc Ock as the undisputed leader, they should distance the series as far as possible from its poorly received predecessors. I would bring back Garfield and Field and that's it from the previous films. Gwen's death can be mentioned, but stay away from the storylines involving Oscorp and Parker's parents. Introduce a bunch of new supporting characters like the Bugle staff and MJ.
 
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Turn the 2016 movie into Spider-Man vs. The Sinister Six. I don't necessarily think they need to push it back, although they should if Goddard says he needs more time.

The female spinoff, Venom spinoff, and 2018 Webb film should be scrapped. See how Spider-Man vs. Sinister Six does first and base the future plans off of that.

To me, the only logical reason they have all of these spinoffs planned is because they have some kind of story in place already.

Otherwise, if they have no idea what they're going to do, I don't think the spinoffs should be something the public is aware of.
 
You guys have to look at both strategies at both respective studios (MCU and Sony) to see what the thinking could be here.

Right now we have a November 2016 S6 film. This is clearly not going to commence. They are not going to put it up against a Marvel film. You also have a young adult franchise, the sequel to the HP books (or spinoff to that). So scratch that. Holiday 2016 would also be a no go. So you are looking at 2017. Now you face the DC slate in the spring which opens a can of worms.

If Sony wants S6 or ASM3, come out now, mark a late June/early July 2017 release date. Get a big time director and a cast before BayFormers 5 or some other God awful blockbuster claims that spot. Give this thing a proper budget for S6. HAVE SPIDEY AS THE LEAD. Get rid of Webb if need be an get a director that understands how to juggle multiple characters and not simply create romantic chemistry between the male/female leads. Make this your featured tentpole. Come out an announce it before the end of the quarter or early next quarter.

If Sony misses that window, they are cooked. They have until 2019 to release a Spidey movie or spinoff. They can certainly pull an Elecktra and make a BC movie on the cheap to buy a couple of years. But WB/Disney have completely consumed Summer 2019 so releasing a Spidey film there would be stupider than ASM sandwiched between Avengers and TDKR.

Summer 2017 is the window to hit this thing. They need to do it hard. They need to do it fast. They need to follow through with their current universe and nail it on every level. It starts with getting a director in here that can pull it off, and they have one already working on S6. This is your guy. Garfield is your Spiderman. Write the check and let's get this thing going Arad. This is your only play.
 
The choices simply are:

1. They go forward with a Sinister Six villain focused/redeption/minimal Spiderman movie in 2016.

I have absolutely no faith in the S6 movie, it was a terrible idea to begin with. Sure it might be good but not with the way Sony is running things.

2. They go slower and have a different story, such as one with Kraven, in 2016, and make it an Amazing Spiderman film.

TASM2 left a bunch of cliff hangers, if you're not going to answer them in the next film then you might as well reboot.

3. They turn the planned Sinister SIx movie for 2016 into an Amazing Spiderman movie with the Sinister Six as straight out villains (and not some stupide group of bad guys who need to be redeemed).

This is the most profitable of the options, but I dislike this series so much I couldn't care if it happens or not.

Look, I know the choice you guys all want is for the rights to revert to Marvel, I mean Disney, but that's not going to happen. Sony is making $, so they'll continue to make $ with Spiderman, no matter what we want. So, within those confines, what would you like to see?

Screw Marvel Studios, Spider-Man should be in his own universe. Sony just needs to stop trying to copy Marvel in setting up their sequels and making a shared universe. Oh and actually faithfully adapt the Spider-Man comics like they did with the Raimi films.
 
The problem is there is a time table with how long they can push things back. Disney / MARVEL would not give them an contract extension because they would want Spider-Man back
 
I think they're kinda screwed, lol. All the stuff Marvel Studios has got in place and same for Warner Bros. Sony's indecisiveness and what they've been doing so far just isn't going to cut it.
 
Sony should cancel everything.

Including Marvel, DC and Fox's movies.
 
The best thing would be to reboot the series in 2022 and take the center stage after alot of the Marvel and WB properties have exhausted themselves. After a decade of JLA, Avengers, and related character films Spidey could then return. However , the time table won't allow that as someone else mentioned.
 
My opinion would be...

I think things are more simple than what some of you make it out to be. Not easy. No, not at all. But not as complicated. The TASM series needs an X-Men: Days of Future Past. But to have that, they're gonna need an X-Men: First Class first. It's almost a given that the next Spidey movie will underperform regardless. But to be able to keep the rights and get the series back on its feet with dignity, they need to be able to take that hit. The X movies proved that there's no such thing as "damaged beyond repair".

... if it weren't for Garfield's contract. Even if the next film is a step in the right direction, the mandatory recasting that follows will only screw up that effort. As sad as it is to say, unless they can get Garfield to agree to a 4th one, dumping him and recasting for the long term seems to be what makes the most sense right now.
 
No series is damaged beyond repair. WB was willing to make sequel to B&R years after it was a disappointment and frankly they could have made another film. WB could have made a sequel to SR and for a while talked about making one despite the reception it had. Sony was pretty ready to move forward with Spiderman 4 after SM3 and it wasn't until Raimi basically backed out that they decided to reboot. You make a sequel to any poor or bad entry in any franchise. The question is whether or not the current franchise is problematic enough for the studio to feel the need to reboot. In the case of Batman and Superman WB felt they would have more freedom to do a straight reboots given were the last films left things. The same was certainly on Sony's mind as they felt the new films would be hipper, younger, and edgy like the Nolan Batman films.

Now whether or not ASM 2 was a bad enough film to warrant a reboot is a heated debate among fans, though I'm not so sure its as big a debate among the Sony execs , which is why we're hearing rumors about drastic changes and dynamic moves. I think the issue of whether this version of series could be saved may not even be on the table at Sony at this point and the question may be how to reintroduce the character either in a S6 reboot or an MCU incorporation. A sort of XMDOFP franchise saver type film in the Webbiverse option I suspect may be hanging by a thread if not completely off the table.
 
I'm pretty confident we'll see another film in this version of the spider-man series.

Series is still making money, the general audience doesn't hate the film as much, note that the RT audience rating has stayed solid for a few months now.

The situation isn't as dire as people like to paint it. I think there'll be a lot of eggs on faces if we keep up this hyperbole regarding the alledgedly apocalyptic state of the Spider-Man franchise.

Would not be suprised at all if S6 makes more than TASM2.
 
I'm pretty confident we'll see another film in this version of the spider-man series.

Series is still making money, the general audience doesn't hate the film as much, note that the RT audience rating has stayed solid for a few months now.

The situation isn't as dire as people like to paint it. I think there'll be a lot of eggs on faces if we keep up this hyperbole regarding the alledgedly apocalyptic state of the Spider-Man franchise.

Would not be suprised at all if S6 makes more than TASM2.

I think that there will definitely been some major changes for the next film whether reboot or not. I think it would be hyperbole to say that Sony is gonna give up or lose the rights but as far as them recasting or rebooting, that's really not out of the realm of possibility. They were willing to reboot after SM3 and that was alot more successful and popular with the GA than this ASM2 so I wouldn't be confident that Sony won't make a major course correction if they feel it will make them more money.
 
The first option because it would be a complete bomb without the only character that everyone cares about and hopefully this will finally convince sony that no one wants to see a "spider-verse"

Thur forcing them to go back to the negotiating table with marvel, hopefully working out a deal for him to appear in team up films.
 
I'm with Levi. Cancel everything and sell to the MCU.
 
I'm pretty confident we'll see another film in this version of the spider-man series.

Series is still making money, the general audience doesn't hate the film as much, note that the RT audience rating has stayed solid for a few months now.

The situation isn't as dire as people like to paint it. I think there'll be a lot of eggs on faces if we keep up this hyperbole regarding the alledgedly apocalyptic state of the Spider-Man franchise.

Would not be suprised at all if S6 makes more than TASM2.

I think S6 can make more than ASM 2 domestically but no chance it makes more world wide.
 
I'm with Levi. Cancel everything and sell to the MCU.

How much would Sony be willing to take? The last two movies made 1.4 billion. Spider-Man is the 3rd most iconic superhero on the planet.

How much would Disney pay? They are making a fortune without Spider-Man and have mapped out the next 5 years.
 

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