Homecoming Should they push things back?

:up:

Always with the studios wars it's either Marvel vs Sony and Marvel vs DCCU or Marvel vs Fox.

There's never any Batman fans or X-Men fans calling for Marvel movies to flop or be cancelled or insulting them years in advance with calls to boycott.

I've seen that in the DOFP merchandise thread as well as other places. None of these fanbases are free of over zealousness. Whether we notice it or not usually depends on how much it opposes are views.
 
Do I want to see Spider-Man hang out with Daredevil and co? Yes. But you know what I want first and foremost? SPIDER-MAN movies. I liked the last two movies but I 'totally' get why people didn't. I hated with an absolute PASSION Superman Returns, Quantum of Solace, Temple of Doom, The Prequels, The last two Terminator movies, the last two Iron Man movies. But I don't go on and on and on...'Oh sell, why don't you sell, I hope all your movies flop' over and over again.

Yeah.

I don't want Sony to flop either - I like both of the ASM films, and I like Andrew. Thing being, if their future do films end up flopping, they'll hopefully just give up and give the rights back to Marvel, or if the films end up being really good... Well, there's that.

It's gonna be just fine, eventually.
 
You hate Temple of Doom? And Episode 3? And Superman Returns? But love dog**** that is TASM2?

Yes. There have only been 2 good Indiana movies. All of the prequels are a disgrace and SR is a borefest that **** on the character Superman.
 
Yeah.

It's just not as good as people wanted it to be.
 
Okay I'm going to be honest, I still kinda want TASM 3, I want Andrew to finish his trilogy
 
With CBMs it's characters or concepts I'm interested in based on having read the comics, seen the cartoons or again from trailers and how the movie looks, but never am I certain to go to see a movie when the movie is years away and I have no knowledge of what the movies about.

For instance I'm interested in Shazam from what I've seen in the Brave and the bold cartoon, I'll be seeing that depending on how it looks in trailers. I wouldn't be dead set on going to see it years before a cast is attached or before there's even a snippet of news about the content on the movie.
I'm looking forward to Inhumans as I've read them in comics and like the concepts and characters but again I'm not dead set until I see some footage and it speaks to me.

But there are very few movies I'll be certain to go to sight unseen.

Oh I wasn't talking about going into a movie blind. Of course you can try and judge a movie based on the trailer(s) but that's not necessarily a given though. There have been plenty of movies that have very nice looking trailers but they end up being either just 'meh' or bad.

Just for arguments sake, say you have to make a choice to see a movie between two different films and you have no knowledge of what either movie looks like, i.e. you've never seen a trailer. Both movies feature characters you are equally interested in. But one movie is made by a studio that has featured a track record of producing above average quality movies and the other is produced by a studio with a track record of making movies that have been lackluster, average at best, but have also been showing a decline in quality. Which do you pick?

It is.

Marvel Studios don't really have any boundaries anymore. Even if people don't know who Doctor Strange, Black Panther, or Captain Marvel is, they're still gonna go see the movies because of Marvel's track record.

Yeah, IM2 was pretty whatever, but pretty much everything else they've put out has been genuinely good. IM3 gets way too much hate and TIH is badass and underrated, I'd say.

We're living in an age of superheroes, and Marvel Studios are at the top of everything.

I can't complain.

I can't complain either. It's an exciting time to be a comic book fan.

TASM2 isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

Yeah.

It's just not as good as people wanted it to be.

I certainly don't believe the hyperbolic nonsense about how ASM2 is the worst thing ever. It is middle-tier in terms of CBMs. It is without a doubt one of the most disappointing affairs I've had with regard to this genre. Probably the most since I'm such a devout Spidey fan. I still find some enjoyment with the movie but it fell extremely short of the potential.
 
TASM2 isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

Who is "people"? There are people who hate this film with a passion, people who think it's the best superhero movie evarrr.

It deserves the 53% it got on RT if not lower. It wasn't a horrible film, but it was definitely a lousy film.
 
I certainly don't believe the hyperbolic nonsense about how ASM2 is the worst thing ever. It is middle-tier in terms of CBMs. It is without a doubt one of the most disappointing affairs I've had with regard to this genre. Probably the most since I'm such a devout Spidey fan. I still find some enjoyment with the movie but it fell extremely short of the potential.

I think most people who like the film, can agree that it could've been better.
 
Even if people don't know who Doctor Strange, Black Panther, or Captain Marvel is, they're still gonna go see the movies because of Marvel's track record.

Yep, like I said it's about the brand more than the content. Like Apple

Bond
Batman
Superman
Indiana Jones
Star Wars
And a host of other franchises have bad movies in their collection but there aren't calls for the studios to sell off their characters and build from the ground up. Bad movies happens you hopefully learn from your mistakes and go again. I very much doubt the general audience are wanting a reboot.

Agreed. Every franchise has at least one poor movie, there are no exceptions.

But you know what I want first and foremost? SPIDER-MAN movies. I liked the last two movies but I 'totally' get why people didn't. I hated with an absolute PASSION Superman Returns, Quantum of Solace, Temple of Doom, The Prequels, The last two Terminator movies, the last two Iron Man movies. But I don't go on and on and on...'Oh sell, why don't you sell, I hope all your movies flop' over and over again.

:applaud :applaud

If they don't like the franchise then do like every other franchise and stop watching and stop talking about it, move one. Trying to ruin it for those who do enjoy it is wrong.

And the silliest thing is if it does flop the right still won't change hands for several years.

TASM2 isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

Yeah.

It's just not as good as people wanted it to be.

Bingo, it wasn't as good as it could've been but with people it seems it either has to be excellent or terrible with little middle ground.

Oh I wasn't talking about going into a movie blind. Of course you can try and judge a movie based on the trailer(s) but that's not necessarily a given though. There have been plenty of movies that have very nice looking trailers but they end up being either just 'meh' or bad.

Yeah true.

Just for arguments sake, say you have to make a choice to see a movie between two different films and you have no knowledge of what either movie looks like, i.e. you've never seen a trailer. Both movies feature characters you are equally interested in. But one movie is made by a studio that has featured a track record of producing above average quality movies and the other is produced by a studio with a track record of making movies that have been lackluster, average at best, but have also been showing a decline in quality. Which do you pick?

That's a toughi. I'd probably look at the directors and writers more than the studio. Based on recent efforts beforehand First Class had no right to be as great as it was but the people actually making the movie were different and that factored in more than the ones producing or financing it.

I certainly don't believe the hyperbolic nonsense about how ASM2 is the worst thing ever. It is middle-tier in terms of CBMs.

Agreed. Thing is many are middle-tier but people like to place them below that or in some selective cases above that.
 
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Some simple questions...

- What is Harry's motivation at this point? Is it revenge? Maybe. Is it survival? I think yes. And what is it he needs in order to survive?

Yes, they could say that his taking of the serum has "worked" as far as he will live, but he'll be switching back and forth between Harry and Goblin.

But good CBM stories are always about motivation. It makes or breaks the story.

For example, what was Doc Connors' motivation? Initially it was making cross-species experimentation work so he could regrow his arm. This made him interesting. But after he turned into the Lizard, what was his motivation? It was turn everyone into a Lizard, which was stupid. It ruined the villain.

Aleskei's motivation was that he was a criminal. I guess he was trying to steal that cannister thing for money? A bit ho-hum, plus an over the top character performance ruined the character. And in the end, what was his motivation? It became revenge. So what was he willing to do for revenge? Get into some mech Rhino thing and terrorize the city. Boy, what a great story (sarcasm)...

And Electro. What was MAx Dillon's motivation? Actually, I still don't know. Maybe he wanted to be liked? Stupid much? Ruined the character. But after he got turned into Electro his motivation became power. He wanted to be the bully, making him not someone to be redeemed, but someone to be despised. The GA doesn't want to see him come back to his senses and mentally become Max Dillon again. They want to see him be defeated.

So, my point is that Sony is at a pivital point. They screw up this next one and this franchise is done! If they try to push 6 villains into one movie, especially if they do something stupid, like tell it from the villain's point of view, they won't be able to do it and everything will be ruined.

Best choice is to retract things. Don't go too big on the next one. Stick to Spiderman, which is what the GA loves. Make it one main villain, and maybe one secondary villain, along with story plots like Black Cat, finshing up the daddy stuff, more Aunt May, dealing with school and work, some minor setups for future movies, some more Oscorp planning, and introduction of MJ; and you've got something.

My opinion is this...

- Use Kraven as the primary villain.
- He can come into the story because Harry still needs Peter's blood.
- An early scene would show someone (like the Gentleman) in Africa tracking down Kraven and convincing him to go on the biggest hunt of his life.
- That's a great motivation for a villain, testing one's limits. He thinks he's the best hunter ever (ego) and would want to test himself against a prey like Spiderman.
- Imagine that Spiderman beats him easily in their first face-off. What would Kraven be willing to do? I believe his pride, which would be another interesting motivation, would make him willing to do almost anything, including taking some experimental drug in order to defeat Spiderman, turning Kraven into a bigger threat.

- For the secondary villain go with the Cameleon.
- The half-brother relationship with Kraven can be worked in.
- His powers would enable Peter to be messed with. Look like Richard Parker, and Peter would be freaking out. Look like Gwen and he'd be going nuts. If done well it could be huge.
- Have him be an early threat that Peter handles, which could give Kraven more motivation to sign on to hunt the Spider, family.

- Have the Black Cat met early in the movie where Spiderman stops her from stealing something.
- Have her be very, very sexy.
- Have her flirt with Spiderman, which puts him off guard, maybe allowing her to escape, which would make him track her down.

- Show one scene at the Bugle, maybe.
- JJ can't be over the top campy.
- The Bugle could be used as a means for Peter to research things, like who this Black Cat is.
- Introduce us to some of the supporting cast, like Betty and Robbie.
- Have Eddie Brock and maybe the Sin-Eater story part of this in order to set up the end of the next movie (Peter getting rid of the Black Suit and Brock getting it), which would set up the following movie (Brock as Venom).
- If done well, the Bugle could be turned into a tv series for Sony. Call it Spiderman:The DB. Make it about the reporters and the characters at the bugle. Add in some police officers, minot villains and the mobster characters. Could be huge!!!

- Show us Peter at school.
- Maybe make him a lab assistant to Miles Warren (whose back story would have to be altered). Maybe it's MJ (just a regular student - not top of the class like Gwen would be) that Warren falls in "love" with.
- Using the school as a way to introduce MJ could work well.
- MJ needs to be out of Peter Parker's league.

- Of course we'll need to see a little more of what's going on at Oscorp.
- We could see Harry at the start of the movie being told that they need Peter's blood by the Gentleman (which sets up the Kraven introduction).
- Introduce us to Otto and some of the other S6 villains, like Vulture. Again, each of their motivations is important for the future movie.
- Have Peter find/use the "symbiote" and have him keep it until the next movie.

My point is that they really could do things well, if, and only if, they realize that this is about Spiderman, and not about the villains! Slow down just a bit and do it right this time! Then go for it with the S6 in TASM4!
 
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Bingo, it wasn't as good as it could've been but with people it seems it either has to be excellent or terrible with little middle ground.

Well, we are on the SuperHeroHype
erbole
forums.
 
I'm really really not trying to hate on TASM2 but it was a mess. It was bad. There was no central plot to the film, there were plots and the plots were dumb.

Harry needing Spidey's blood was dumb considering we just saw this BY THE SAME WRITERS last year in Star Trek

Having Harry be the Goblin and killing off Norman was dumb. First problem with Harry is we are told Harry and Peter are friends, not shown. I think in Raimi's Spidey 1 we had Harry go up to Peter like a friend saying what's up then Norman comes saying Harry forgot his backpack and Harry introducing his friend Peter to his dad Norman. In TASM2 we are shown they are friends and the only friend scene with them really includes Harry and Peter skipping rocks. Also Harry's character arc was basically a poor man's version of Harry in Raimi's films. Harry and Peter are friends, Harry needs Spidey, Harry goes to Peter for Spider-Man (Harry did this with Ock in SM2), Harry becomes the Goblin. It was rushed an underdeveloped all for a cure. Let's talk about this cure.

So the disease Norman has, we got no ****ing idea what it is but we know it starts at Harry's age. Harry is like 20 and Norman is at least 65. You aren't dying kid. Hell everybody on Earth is dying if you think about it. You got 45 years to find a cure. Calm the **** down Harry.

Electro was a mess. Why did Max need a nerdy look? Why the comb over? I can understand him not being respected but you didn't need for him to look like a character from a cartoon. Second I highly, HIGHLY doubt someone who developed blue prints for a power grid is getting **** on by his bosses and not getting well paid. I mean he developed blue prints for a power grid. That's a pretty ****ing big thing. Also how the **** did Electro get his powers? He got electrocuted and fell into a tank of ells which equals electric powers? It's never explained how he got his powers. Hell they could have had scientists working on how he got his powers instead of doing whatever the **** they were in the prison. His motivation is weak too. He is mad at Spidey for forgetting his name? Why focus on that? Why not have him use his powers for his own wants and needs? Have him kill Smyth who's been a dick to him or maybe even his mother for not loving him and putting him down? Speaking of Smyth, did we need the dream Smyth sequence? I literally facepalmed when that happened in the theater and then double facepalmed when it was just a vision in his head. Max was so ****ing weak as a character and a villain.

The relationship of Peter and Gwen is literally straight up a copy from Legend of Zorro WHICH IS BY THE SAME WRITERS!!!!!! One of the best things about TASM was Gwen/Peter's relationship so where to start the next film? Have them break up. Same thing happened in Legend of Zorro, sequel to Mask of Zorro, not even kidding. Speaking of Gwen let's talk her father.

I didn't mind the Captain Stacy visions by why do they only show up when it's something big? It doesn't seem like Peter has been having this visions inbetween since he's still with Gwen. He doesn't have them when he sucks face with Gwen but at random scenes like in the cop chase and the end he sees them. It just feels like it's only convenient.

We also have Peter looking at Youtube for answers, no Jonah physically, the dumb parents subplot.

Let's talk that for a second. Why the **** didn't you start the first film with the opening scene with his parents in TASM2? It makes a lot more sense. Instead we sit from the same footage from TASM1 with new footage of **** we knew like them dying from a plane crash. When did they get on a plane? Peter's father had a underground train car? They couldn't hide there? What was so important that the laptop up or downloaded?

Also I hate the ending. Everyone loves it but I just hate it. I'm not talking about Gwen's death, I'm talking her aftermath. We see her funeral and a seasons montage of Peter visiting her grave. It's clear he's not Spidey, he listens to her speech and decides to return. I have said I felt it would have been more powerful if the scene after her death you see the funeral and when it's over Aunt May tells Peter to take your time and we see Peter have an Alfred moment where he is crying and looks at Captain Stacy's grave saying how he failed him. He failed to keep his promise to keep Gwen save. We see Peter crying.

COME TO THINK OF IT, HOW THE **** DIDN'T THE WRITERS OR WEBB NOT THINK OF MAYBE AUNT MAY GIVING PETER MOTHERLY ADVICE OF HOW TO COPE WITH GWEN'S DEATH SINCE SHE LOST UNCLE BEN?!?!?!??!?!?!??! INSTEAD OF SAYING "PETER YOU'RE MY BOY" ****ING SHOW IT!!!!! THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ****ING PERFECT!!!!

After the Alfred moment, have Peter and Aunt May arrive home. Maybe Peter is in his room still crying and have this scene with Aunt May. Then end it with Aunt May getting a call saying she's needed at the hospital. Once Aunt May leaves, taking a note from Miles, we see Peter see his Spidey suit and we have this:

f8459839-1473-488f-a1a8-b96d9895461f-miles%20no%20more.jpg


Instead we get a half ass attempt to hit you in the feels that is as deep as a kiddie pool and a Sinister Six rushed member to set up that. ****ing stupid.

Also that scene where Harry is putting a team together, why? To fight Peter? Peter quit after Gwen's death. There's no more Spider-Man. Why the **** would you go after him? In fact giving Rhino the suit only caused Peter to come back as Spidey. YOUR LOGIC IS STUPID!!!!

I'm sorry, this was a terrible terrible movie. If you like it, good for you but it was just a mess. It was stupid and illogical IMO.
 
We know you don't like the movie, Levi.

"Terrible terrible" is just your opinon though, man. Doesn't matter how you put it.
 
So far 89% feels that Sony should either ditch the whole Sinister Six villain point of view movie and just make it an Amazing Spiderman movie with the Sinister Six as the villains, or go with a different villain for the next Amazing Spiderman movie and do the Sinister Six as the villains in the Amazing Spiderman 4.

So only 11% believe they are doing the right thing.

Sony... you need to wake up!
 
I wish they released TASM3 in 2016 and be done with it. Hurry up Sony, Avengers 3 is not gonna wait for Spidey.
 
I'm really really not trying to hate on TASM2 but it was a mess. It was bad. There was no central plot to the film, there were plots and the plots were dumb.

Harry needing Spidey's blood was dumb considering we just saw this BY THE SAME WRITERS last year in Star Trek

Having Harry be the Goblin and killing off Norman was dumb. First problem with Harry is we are told Harry and Peter are friends, not shown. I think in Raimi's Spidey 1 we had Harry go up to Peter like a friend saying what's up then Norman comes saying Harry forgot his backpack and Harry introducing his friend Peter to his dad Norman. In TASM2 we are shown they are friends and the only friend scene with them really includes Harry and Peter skipping rocks. Also Harry's character arc was basically a poor man's version of Harry in Raimi's films. Harry and Peter are friends, Harry needs Spidey, Harry goes to Peter for Spider-Man (Harry did this with Ock in SM2), Harry becomes the Goblin. It was rushed an underdeveloped all for a cure. Let's talk about this cure.

So the disease Norman has, we got no ****ing idea what it is but we know it starts at Harry's age. Harry is like 20 and Norman is at least 65. You aren't dying kid. Hell everybody on Earth is dying if you think about it. You got 45 years to find a cure. Calm the **** down Harry.

Electro was a mess. Why did Max need a nerdy look? Why the comb over? I can understand him not being respected but you didn't need for him to look like a character from a cartoon. Second I highly, HIGHLY doubt someone who developed blue prints for a power grid is getting **** on by his bosses and not getting well paid. I mean he developed blue prints for a power grid. That's a pretty ****ing big thing. Also how the **** did Electro get his powers? He got electrocuted and fell into a tank of ells which equals electric powers? It's never explained how he got his powers. Hell they could have had scientists working on how he got his powers instead of doing whatever the **** they were in the prison. His motivation is weak too. He is mad at Spidey for forgetting his name? Why focus on that? Why not have him use his powers for his own wants and needs? Have him kill Smyth who's been a dick to him or maybe even his mother for not loving him and putting him down? Speaking of Smyth, did we need the dream Smyth sequence? I literally facepalmed when that happened in the theater and then double facepalmed when it was just a vision in his head. Max was so ****ing weak as a character and a villain.

The relationship of Peter and Gwen is literally straight up a copy from Legend of Zorro WHICH IS BY THE SAME WRITERS!!!!!! One of the best things about TASM was Gwen/Peter's relationship so where to start the next film? Have them break up. Same thing happened in Legend of Zorro, sequel to Mask of Zorro, not even kidding. Speaking of Gwen let's talk her father.

I didn't mind the Captain Stacy visions by why do they only show up when it's something big? It doesn't seem like Peter has been having this visions inbetween since he's still with Gwen. He doesn't have them when he sucks face with Gwen but at random scenes like in the cop chase and the end he sees them. It just feels like it's only convenient.

We also have Peter looking at Youtube for answers, no Jonah physically, the dumb parents subplot.

Let's talk that for a second. Why the **** didn't you start the first film with the opening scene with his parents in TASM2? It makes a lot more sense. Instead we sit from the same footage from TASM1 with new footage of **** we knew like them dying from a plane crash. When did they get on a plane? Peter's father had a underground train car? They couldn't hide there? What was so important that the laptop up or downloaded?

Also I hate the ending. Everyone loves it but I just hate it. I'm not talking about Gwen's death, I'm talking her aftermath. We see her funeral and a seasons montage of Peter visiting her grave. It's clear he's not Spidey, he listens to her speech and decides to return. I have said I felt it would have been more powerful if the scene after her death you see the funeral and when it's over Aunt May tells Peter to take your time and we see Peter have an Alfred moment where he is crying and looks at Captain Stacy's grave saying how he failed him. He failed to keep his promise to keep Gwen save. We see Peter crying.

COME TO THINK OF IT, HOW THE **** DIDN'T THE WRITERS OR WEBB NOT THINK OF MAYBE AUNT MAY GIVING PETER MOTHERLY ADVICE OF HOW TO COPE WITH GWEN'S DEATH SINCE SHE LOST UNCLE BEN?!?!?!??!?!?!??! INSTEAD OF SAYING "PETER YOU'RE MY BOY" ****ING SHOW IT!!!!! THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ****ING PERFECT!!!!

After the Alfred moment, have Peter and Aunt May arrive home. Maybe Peter is in his room still crying and have this scene with Aunt May. Then end it with Aunt May getting a call saying she's needed at the hospital. Once Aunt May leaves, taking a note from Miles, we see Peter see his Spidey suit and we have this:

f8459839-1473-488f-a1a8-b96d9895461f-miles%20no%20more.jpg


Instead we get a half ass attempt to hit you in the feels that is as deep as a kiddie pool and a Sinister Six rushed member to set up that. ****ing stupid.

Also that scene where Harry is putting a team together, why? To fight Peter? Peter quit after Gwen's death. There's no more Spider-Man. Why the **** would you go after him? In fact giving Rhino the suit only caused Peter to come back as Spidey. YOUR LOGIC IS STUPID!!!!

I'm sorry, this was a terrible terrible movie. If you like it, good for you but it was just a mess. It was stupid and illogical IMO.

sums it up pretty much. the worst part of the movie is still harry killing gwen, the 2nd worst part being not showing a sign of harry at the clocktower after the moment.
 
Reboot! Reboot! Reboot!!

OR just let it rest, there are plenty of superhero movies. As a huge Spidey fan, I was already disappointed enough times by both Raimi SM and TASM. No more, unless the film makers are ready to do it properly.

I'm really really not trying to hate on TASM2 but it was a mess. It was bad.... It was stupid and illogical IMO.

I fully agree on everything you just said man! Sometimes I think that some us in here could come up with a way better script that the writers, which is just sad, considering that they are supposed to be pros, not to mention the experience and their background which includes some decent movies!

I suppose, that if you start, you could write a novel of rant about this movie! It was the same with Spider-Man 3. :)
 
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Reboot! Reboot! Reboot!!

OR just let it rest, there are plenty of superhero movies. As a huge Spidey fan, I was already disappointed enough times by both Raimi SM and TASM. No more, unless the film makers are ready to do it properly.

The problem is that they always think they're doing it properly- otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

But I'd rather have a good reboot of the franchise sooner than later.
 
A lot of people speculated that the classic nerdy look wouldn't fly in the more grounded take of the Webb-verse when Peter Parker was revealed to have his....let's just say unorthodox look for the first one. And then we got Max in part 2. Hilarious.
 

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