First Avenger Should they use the Ultimate Universe as influence or not

[Turtles]

Am I the only one sick of the "violence is our way of life--it makes the world go round!" attitude that is given to every character these days just because people eat it up like candy?

I know people love to throw around terms like "boy scout" when referring to 616 Cap as if it's an insult. But do those people even realize that Cap being a "boy scout" is one of the main reasons people used to (and still do) idolize him?

People don't idolize Captain America because he's a cynical hero who resigns himself to the fact that the world is an evil place, war is hell, and the good guy always finishes last. No, people idolize Captain America because he's the exact opposite of that. He sees only the best things about everything, and he refuses to compromise on his morals just because half the people around him do and the world isn't all sunshine and rainbows anymore.

Saying that, I don't mind if they add small bits of Ultimate Cap's personality into the mix here and there, but I think the emphasis must be placed on 616 Cap's personality. And it's not like the modern 616 Cap doesn't have a gritty, real world attitude like Ultimate Cap. I mean, haven't you people been reading Ed Brubaker's run? Cap isn't a boy scout there.

If nothing else, Marvel has to tone down or avoid the Ultimate Cap personality because, if some Americans find Ultimate Cap hard to stomach, how would the world audience see him? I don't want to see the movie bomb because Marvel wanted to use a controversial version of Cap.

Oh, and just to counter all those people who say he needs to kill people and be jaded just because he was in WWII.....

If Cap was in the WWII, fighting people like the Red Skull who used violence and torture and killing as a means to and end, then you'd think he'd know better than to resort to such things. Frankly, you'd almost expect him to hate such things because he'd have seen first hand just how horrible and pointless they really are.

 

[roach]

I think that the majority of the US wanted nothing to do with the war...except for those funding/making money off of it. I think that those in the know (in big business and the government) knew that the US would NEVER enter the war unless they were attached... and so... they staged an attack.... Pearl Harbor. They put them selves out there and let everyone know...

"We're just going to put our entire fleet in one spot and leave it there.... NOBODY had better attack us... WE'RE A PEACEFUL NATION and would hate if someone attacked us... PLEASE don't attack us."

The US government wanted in that war and needed Japan to attack them so that they could get a 100% vote to go to war *cough *911* cough*

The majority of Americans didnt want in on WW2 after the massive loss of life in WW1. If the US government wanted in on the war(after being asked by Churchill) then all they had to do is stop passing Neutrality Acts

 

[Red Mask]

The majority of Americans didnt want in on WW2 after the massive loss of life in WW1. If the US government wanted in on the war(after being asked by Churchill) then all they had to do is stop passing Neutrality Acts

Yeah, countries lost an entire generation to the Great War. A large number of the veterans even lost their limbs. The ruthlessness of modern warfare reached a new level of barbarity. Before America got involved in WW2, French casualties already exceeded what was lost in the Great War in a similar period of time. It was a huge burden on the Allies' leaders to commit their people to it. Charles de Gaulle may have been an arrogant jerk, but he whole heartedly wanted his people to fight back inspite of his country's defeat.

 

[Judson Caspian]

Ultimate is what made these characters boring as hell. Screw that.

 

[Artistsean]

My father, who doesn't read comics, saw a toy of Ultimate WWII Cap and said who is that,
I told him it was Captain America and he said that it didn't look like Cap.
The public, who is not too familiar with Captain America, won't recognize him so much if they go with the Ultimate version.
Another problem I have with using the Ultimate version, while it is cool, it feels like they would be side stepping the original. Basing it off a comic that is based off the original, one step removed from the actual comic.

 

[Webhead2006]

well i am sure they will probably end up doing something that honners both the classic/modern 616 cap look, and maybe ww2 ultimates cap.

 

[Infinity9999x]

well i am sure they will probably end up doing something that honners both the classic/modern 616 cap look, and maybe ww2 ultimates cap.

Agreed. I would only want them to use elements from Ultimates. For example, I loved the scene when Cap goes to visit Gale the first time. That was a good scene, I would love for that to be in the first Avengers movie.

I also loved the Skrull storyline in the Ultimates. I wouldn't mind it if they included some of that as well.

 

[Webhead2006]

well i serious doubt they would do ultimate red skull since its a brand new character and we havent gotten the ins and outs totally on the character. Since the film is ww2 they are def going to go classic red skull there. No reason to change skull for movie.

 

[CaptainCanada]

I think that the majority of the US wanted nothing to do with the war...except for those funding/making money off of it. I think that those in the know (in big business and the government) knew that the US would NEVER enter the war unless they were attached... and so... they staged an attack.... Pearl Harbor. They put them selves out there and let everyone know...

"We're just going to put our entire fleet in one spot and leave it there.... NOBODY had better attack us... WE'RE A PEACEFUL NATION and would hate if someone attacked us... PLEASE don't attack us."

1) Pearl Harbour was the primary base for the Pacific Fleet for decades, and was at the time believed to be basically invulnerable.

2) You act like fleets concentrating primarily in one base is unusual. It wasn't then, and it isn't now.

The US government wanted in that war and needed Japan to attack them so that they could get a 100% vote to go to war *cough *911* cough*

Ah, that old canard. Completely unsubstantiated and ludicrous.

Roosevelt didn't want a war in the Pacific. He was focused on Europe all through 1941. He wanted to get involved in the war against Germany.

After watching a new documentary on World War 2, I say that Miller is an idiot for his Ultimate Capt. America. The events that led to France's defeat had more to do with Nazi Germany's superior planning and war machines.

Er, Millar's Ultimate Cap is one big parody of Bush-era US foreign policy. Millar doesn't mean for people to agree with him.

Though incidentally, despite De Gaulle and the Maquis, the vast majority of the French population was Petainist and from 1940-1942 French soldiers fought against the Allies staunchly, even though they were located in regions where there was no direct Nazi threat.

 

[ironman29758]

well alot of comics and shows veiw Captain America as a soldier who love the old days and Ultimate Cap to me was just an extreme version of that.I'm not disrespecting the 616 Cap, he's one of my heroes(so is Ultimate Cap).
Marvel Superhero Squad
Mythos:Captain America
here's what Mark Millar veiws Cap: "Cap to me was just Mavel's Batman or Midnighter. He's the badass of the team. People kind of mistakenly think that Cap's Superman, but he's not. He's the covert, black-ops kind of guy. There is that aspect of him smiling on posters with a flag and everything, but he also the guy you drop in a situation and the next thing you know, 300 people are dead and the situation is resolved." I think that we should make the Cap the equivelent of Batman/The Dark Knight and Superman in STM. The tough soldier as well as the hero who gives hope

Spoiler

and alot of Marvel movies and cartoons used Ultimate comics stuff
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=16292

Millar has his own take

Just got word this is no longer a secret so prepare for some Braggy McBraggy. But as Bendy has written on his board this morning, we can finally talk about one of the coolest things to happen in our careers. Completely out of the blue, when the script was still in the early stages, we got a call from Jon Faverau to fly out to the beginnings of what would be the Iron Man set and do a little script consultancy work...


The brian-trust was all people involved in Iron Man to some extent at the time and hand-picked by Fav. This was me (because ULTIMATE Tony was a big influence on the film), BB, Joe Q, Tom Brevoort, Axel Alonso and Ultimates editor Ralph Macchio. We signed an official secrets thing after reading the script (which I swear I somehow managed not to ever tell anyone about) and got to work on this little baby over a couple of days. It was genuinely thrilling and we not only got a look around the caves which we were being built out there in the California desert, but also got to see some of the early ILM test stuff (a lot of which never made it to the finished movie).
​

Incredible Hulk:
Hulk is the product of the super soldier project
plane scene
ultimate abomination design
Spider-man 1,2,3:
Eddie Brock JR
Spider being genetiaclly altered
X-men movies:
costumes inspired by ultimate universe
Iron Man:
Mark Miller claimed
fantastic four:
victor was a part of the accident that turned reed, sue, ben and Johnny into the F4
Ultimate Galacus arc played an important role in ROSS
and alot of thin

 

[Infinity9999x]

well i serious doubt they would do ultimate red skull since its a brand new character and we havent gotten the ins and outs totally on the character. Since the film is ww2 they are def going to go classic red skull there. No reason to change skull for movie.

I said Skrull, not skull. I liked the Skrull arc in Vol. 2 of the Ultimates, and I wouldn't mind if they included the skrulls in WWII like they did in the Ultimates.

 

[Timstuff]

It will probably be a mix of 616 and Ultimate with a bit of new stuff thrown in, just like a great many of the Marvel movies have been so far.

 

[Webhead2006]

oh my mistake man.

 

[Infinity9999x]

oh my mistake man.

No problem. It's an easy one to make. I would have typed Chitauri, but I was too lazy to spell check it and I wasn't sure on the spelling

 

[Webhead2006]

ok yea it would be interesting if they did go with aliens with nazis in ww2. But personally i rather leave aliens for present day and just have sadistic nazis in ww2.

 

[roach]

Incredible Hulk:
Hulk is the product of the super soldier project
plane scene this scene has been in comics before the Ultimate universe came around
ultimate abomination design
Spider-man 1,2,3:
Eddie Brock JR
Spider being genetiaclly alteredSpider-man came out before Ultimate universe
X-men movies:X-men came out before Ultimate X-men
costumes inspired by ultimate universe
Iron Man:
Mark Miller claimed
fantastic four:
victor was a part of the accident that turned reed, sue, ben and Johnny into the F4
Ultimate Galacus arc played an important role in ROSS
and alot of thin

Yes in the movies there are some elements taken from the Ultimate universe however most of the movies are based on the 616. Movie Hulk looks like 616 Hulk...Ultimate Hulk is grey. Movie Hulk's origin is more based on the TV show than Ultimates.
Movie Iron Man's look is based on 616 IM and not Ultimate IM. IM being injured by his own weapons and needing the chest piece to live is based on 616.
X2 is loosely based on the graphic novel "God Loves Man Kills" which is 616.

 

[ironman29758]

Yes in the movies there are some elements taken from the Ultimate universe however most of the movies are based on the 616. Movie Hulk looks like 616 Hulk...Ultimate Hulk is grey. Movie Hulk's origin is more based on the TV show than Ultimates.
Movie Iron Man's look is based on 616 IM and not Ultimate IM. IM being injured by his own weapons and needing the chest piece to live is based on 616.
X2 is loosely based on the graphic novel "God Loves Man Kills" which is 616.

I agree with thte whole using 616 more but Ultimate Universe as a realistic way to make movies(Bryan Finch and Mark Miller called the ultimates a what if marvel made an Avengers movie)
616 Hulk has been Gray sometimes(he was the gray hulk/Joe Fixit first and then the green hulk plus books like Hulk:grey) and Ultimate Hulk has been green also(Ultimate Marvel Team-up# 2-3, Ultimate Spider-man Requiem#2, Ultimate origins#4, Ultimate Wolverine vs Hulk,etc) and personally I think the movie Hulk looked like Ed Norton and a 9 foot tall Lou Ferigino Hulk taking a lot of steriods
Movie Hulk actually uses the whole "creating a super soldier" thing from the ultimate comics
When I saw Tony I thought Bryan Finch's tony although 616 Tony looked like this to
but you are right, there should be parts of the Ultimate Universe but keep it 616

 

[TheVileOne]

There's nothing more extremely realistic about Ultimates. Ultimates had a lot of stupid crap in it.

 

[roach]

Nazi aliens are realistic????

 

[ironman29758]

Nazi aliens are realistic????

when I said realistic way to make movies I meant a smart way to make movies I don't mean aliens, genitaclly sltered monsters or any of that, I admit , costumes that cloak DNA from giant robots, inhumans, etc
such as
costumes, and armors like Ultimates Iron man, ultimate Captain america are realistic to put in a movie(but they used a recent 616 Iron Man armor) as well as other things
the race to make a supersoldier and everything is connected is from Ultimate Marvel and would make a good plot. we kind of saw that in Spider-man we saw that where Norman Osborn trying to make a weapon, Incredible Hulk where people like General Ross tries to make super soldiers/ Hulk as a weapon or Iron Man and Iron Man 2 where people like Obidiah Stane making Iron Man armors

 

[Webhead2006]

yea all the movies draw from things here and there.

 

[roach]

again they do draw from Ulti-verse but its bits and pieces

 

[roach]

when I said realistic way to make movies I meant a smart way to make movies I don't mean aliens, genitaclly sltered monsters or any of that, I admit , costumes that cloak DNA from giant robots, inhumans, etc
such as
costumes, and armors like Ultimates Iron man, ultimate Captain america are realistic to put in a movie(but they used a recent 616 Iron Man armor) as well as other things
the race to make a supersoldier and everything is connected is from Ultimate Marvel and would make a good plot. we kind of saw that in Spider-man we saw that where Norman Osborn trying to make a weapon, Incredible Hulk where people like General Ross tries to make super soldiers/ Hulk as a weapon or Iron Man and Iron Man 2 where people like Obidiah Stane making Iron Man armors

Obidiah Stane making Armor is from the 616

 

[Webhead2006]

yea its nice when you they do take things from many different stories so you can try and get a more rounded out characters.