Superman Returns Simple Test Dummy: Sans Routh, which suit is "stronger"?

[Spider-jedi]

i would also choose jim lees version , routh nesck just does not have the same herioc look ,

 

[Spare-Flair]

could be worst...

HAHAA, you know what though? That suit would match Routh better. It's sad but true.

 

[Zigno]

allways exist a worst option

 

[JamalYIgle]

This doesnt make sense at all. On such a big major picture, they only had a short time to make costume decisions for SFX? Hey Jamal,, care to share a picture of adam's artwork where he has the tshirt opening that doesnt rest on the collar bone? I'd like to see it. As far as the tshirt opening making it into comics.. doubt it.. like i said.. the straight collar is a mainstay now and it's only how the artist interprets the amoun of cape and cape attachement thats changes giving you the impression that the neckline is tighter.. but in actuality is not. It's still open. If you can show me an image from the comics of superman with that tight tshirt opening id realy like to see it, preferrably with superman without the cape so i can be sure its not an open collar.

People seem to forget that even Reeves costume didn't sit on the collar bone.

I want you to show me one real world example where a shirt sits tight and taut across the clavical and collarbones as it does in the comics.

 

[gdw]

It's not ment to be a t-shirt, and also, we just wanted it straight, not glued to his clollae bonw.

 

[JamalYIgle]

It's not ment to be a t-shirt, and also, we just wanted it straight, not glued to his clollae bonw.

It can't be done taht way, because it will never be straight. Again what is done on paper can't always be done live action. Still, I like the Mingenbach redesign, it has a very retro Superman feel following new design theory.

 

[Wushuboy]

thanks jamal.. thing is it's still a straight neckline. The only thing that makes it tight is where andy has drawn the cape attachements. He has it very very close together almost connecting in the middle. So it closes off the openess. If there was no cape it's still be a big open straight neckline that sits on the collar bone. Also, his cape still flows up and over the shoulders. His rendition of superman still does not have that ROUND tight tshirt like opening. Also no one says it has to be as low as Reeve's opening. It should have been somewhere in the middle. But even with the current neckline.. all they had to do was make a straight cut in the front...

In these pictures his neckline is slightly above his collar bone yet still seems fairly snug. Although I'd like it just a little higher but its still possible for it to be snug as in these pictures.

 

[lujho]

Newton howard would be an even better example than Cain. Something like this would have been ideal.

 

[JamalYIgle]

thanks jamal.. thing is it's still a straight neckline. The only thing that makes it tight is where andy has drawn the cape attachements. He has it very very close together almost connecting in the middle. So it closes off the openess. If there was no cape it's still be a big open straight neckline that sits on the collar bone. Also, his cape still flows up and over the shoulders. His rendition of superman still does not have that ROUND tight tshirt like opening. Also no one says it has to be as low as Reeve's opening. It should have been somewhere in the middle. But even with the current neckline.. all they had to do was make a straight cut in the front...

In these pictures his neckline is slightly above his collar bone yet still seems fairly snug. Although I'd like it just a little higher but its still possible for it to be snug as in these pictures.

They went a different way, Since the new suit is basically the Space suit with the upper collar cut off it makes sense in context to the movie. In the end it's up to them to choose the design.

 

[Wushuboy]

but you do acknowledge that its possible right? You said it doesnt happen in nature when in fact it can and has been shown to be possible. So what is done on paper.. at least with superman, CAN be done on the big screen despite you saying it cant. You've pretty much come with many reasons why it is the way it is in the film

1) Born out of necessity for SFX and out of deadlines
2) new design theory making it sound like its a logical progression from what's been done in the comics. Gee i never knew there was a theory of design that says superman would look better with a tshirt collar
3) cant happen in nature
4) what's done on paper cant be done in live action
5) it's an evolution of the space suit
6) oh well it's up to them to decide
what next?


Also I would think it would be the other way around. He's supposed to have the superman suit before he has the space suit right? Unless they have something in the movie that specifically says that he has the space suit first. If it is indeed that he has the space suit first then yes.. i can see how it could make sense.. however if there's some continuity, he should by all intent and purposes have the superman suit first which would sorta invalidate your arguement that the superman suit evolved from the space suit. It should be the other way around where the space suit evolves from the superman suit.

Yes it's up to them to decide but that doesnt necessarily mean that they always make the right choices. They can make mistakes too. Schumacher decided to put nipples on the bat costumes.. did you like that and accept that as well? Maybe there was a new design theory about bat nipples at the time too.

 

[lujho]

The Space suit and the Superman suit are the same type of suit, but I don't know that there's been any kind of confirmation that they are one and the same. I think the Superman suit's pretty much been packed up in Smallville while Superman's been out in space.

 

[JamalYIgle]

but you do acknowledge that its possible right? You said it doesnt happen in nature when in fact it can and has been shown to be possible. So what is done on paper.. at least with superman, CAN be done on the big screen despite you saying it cant. You've pretty much come with many reasons why it is the way it is in the film

1) Born out of necessity for SFX and out of deadlines
2) new design theory making it sound like its a logical progression from what's been done in the comics. Gee i never knew there was a theory of design that says superman would look better with a tshirt collar
3) cant happen in nature
4) what's done on paper cant be done in live action
5) it's an evolution of the space suit
6) oh well it's up to them to decide
what next?


Also I would think it would be the other way around. He's supposed to have the superman suit before he has the space suit right? Unless they have something in the movie that specifically says that he has the space suit first. If it is indeed that he has the space suit first then yes.. i can see how it could make sense.. however if there's some continuity, he should by all intent and purposes have the superman suit first which would sorta invalidate your arguement that the superman suit evolved from the space suit. It should be the other way around where the space suit evolves from the superman suit.

Yes it's up to them to decide but that doesnt necessarily mean that they always make the right choices. They can make mistakes too. Schumacher decided to put nipples on the bat costumes.. did you like that and accept that as well? Maybe there was a new design theory about bat nipples at the time too.

Maybe there was,I don't know.You can't fault me for having awnsers to your questions, whether you like the awnsers or not.
People onl call them excuses when they don't like the awnsers.

 

[Spare-Flair]

This presents another problem. If Routh's neckline is cut so high in addition to the cape attachment, this makes "hiding the costume" underneath his work clothes problematic because the higher neckline of Singer's suit could sometimes be visible even under a dress shirt.

 

[mcflytrap]

I prefer the classic.

 

[Spare-Flair]

Maybe there was,I don't know.You can't fault me for having awnsers to your questions, whether you like the awnsers or not.
People onl call them excuses when they don't like the awnsers.

In the end it's up to them to choose the design.

And it's up to the paying fans and Superman artists to complain about something they don't like and feel is wrong.

They are excuses because all of them are unrealistic answers except "it's up to them to decide" and many of us don't like what they've decided and aren't about to just say: "oh well" and give up complaining about design choices that many actual Superman artists that have worked on the comic have also voiced a dislike toward. In interviews Singer has said that the suit has mostly been his vision so therefore it's mostly his revisionist reimagining which I think even Jim Byrnes said went completely backward against what he and other artists have been building on for 40 years. Singer has admitted he's never read a single Superman comic.

 

[Wushuboy]

The Space suit and the Superman suit are the same type of suit, but I don't know that there's been any kind of confirmation that they are one and the same. I think the Superman suit's pretty much been packed up in Smallville while Superman's been out in space.

This is what i think as well

 

[JamalYIgle]

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And it's up to the paying fans and Superman artists to complain about something they don't like and feel is wrong.

They are excuses because all of them are unrealistic answers except "it's up to them to decide" and many of us don't like what they've decided and aren't about to just say: "oh well" and give up complaining about design choices that many actual Superman artists that have worked on the comic have also voiced a dislike toward. In interviews Singer has said that the suit has mostly been his vision so therefore it's mostly his revisionist reimagining which I think even Jim Byrnes said went completely backward against what he and other artists have been building on for 40 years. Singer has admitted he's never read a single Superman comic.

Who is Jim Byrnes?
If you mean John Byrne, frankly I don't put alot of stock in what John has to say.he's hardly the end all be all when it comes to Superman. The only person who said that Singer was reversing what 40 years of Superman design was Alex Ross. Again he has his opinion. To me the Singer costume is idicative of the ultimate Superman artist, Curt Swan.
And as far as reading Superman comics go, Singer has read some of the comics including Superman for all seasons and Kingdom Come. He was asked that at Wondercon.

 

[JamalYIgle]

This presents another problem. If Routh's neckline is cut so high in addition to the cape attachment, this makes "hiding the costume" underneath his work clothes problematic because the higher neckline of Singer's suit could sometimes be visible even under a dress shirt.

Somehow I don't see this as being an issue since he won't be wearing the full costume under his clothing.

 

[Wushuboy]

And it's up to the paying fans and Superman artists to complain about something they don't like and feel is wrong.

They are excuses because all of them are unrealistic answers except "it's up to them to decide" and many of us don't like what they've decided and aren't about to just say: "oh well" and give up complaining about design choices that many actual Superman artists that have worked on the comic have also voiced a dislike toward. In interviews Singer has said that the suit has mostly been his vision so therefore it's mostly his revisionist reimagining which I think even Jim Byrnes said went completely backward against what he and other artists have been building on for 40 years. Singer has admitted he's never read a single Superman comic.

Just to clarify.. do you mean John Byrnes?

 

[lujho]

Somehow I don't see this as being an issue since he won't be wearing the full costume under his clothing.

No, but in the film we're meant to believe he is, and the costume design makes that harder.

 

[Spare-Flair]

Sorry guys, yes John Byrne, I don't know what I kept saying Jim. Heck, John was raised, educated, and went to art school in my city so I should know his name.

Haha, I was thinking Highlander for some reason.

 

[Wushuboy]

Somehow I don't see this as being an issue since he won't be wearing the full costume under his clothing.

Will the neckline magically disappear when he wears a suit? or will some kind of kryptonian technology hide just the high neckline?

Also as to curt swan. straight neckline. cape flows from collarbone up and over shoulders. no round tshirt neckline. Hows the singer suit indiciative of this?

no round tshirt collar in swan's interpretation. The singer interpretation is so far from swan's interpretation that its not even funny.

 

[JamalYIgle]

No, but in the film we're meant to believe he is, and the costume design makes that harder.

And yet you have no problem with a 5 foot long red cape and Leather boots?

 

[Spare-Flair]

And yet you have no problem with a 5 foot long red cape and Leather boots?

We never see Superman wearing his boots and cape along with his work clothes, but it's always the traditional iconic image of him ripping open his shirt to reveal the suit that we know he at least has that portion of it underneath.

 

[JamalYIgle]

Will the neckline magically disappear when he wears a suit? or will some kind of kryptonian technology hide just the high neckline?

Also as to curt swan. straight neckline. cape flows from collarbone up and over shoulders. no round tshirt neckline. Hows the singer suit indiciative of this?

no round tshirt collar in swan's interpretation. The singer interpretation is so far from swan's interpretation that its not even funny.

Really? Look at how the cape wraps around his shoulders, the size of the S, the height and cut of the boots. The problem is your so stuck on a neckline which is going to change and letting that get in the way of enjoying the movie.