Superman Returns Singer, Sequels, Originality, Vision

bosef982 said:
I'm going to address a few things I'm reading on here concerning Superman Returns relationship to Superman: The Movie and Superman II, and also concerns over how the plot points function to those movies and, if at all, how they mimic, copy, or what not from those movie's overall scripts.

Someone wrote that Singer was damned the day he made this movie. I agree. Superman is so universal to interpret the character succinctly and to everyone's satisifaction (or even a great deal of everyone's) is entirely impossible. The origin tale, as some want, is completely ridiculous. Between Smallville and Superman: The Movie, it is true that re-telling Superman's tell would prove redundant, unneccessary, and simply bad storytelling.

Superman functions as a figure, a collective archetype that resonates with everyone and whom with everyone's familiar. Superman: The Movie was a patently successful realization of Superman as a character, imbuing the mythology with higher, more serious Judeo-Christian archetypes and messages that solidified Superman's reputation as the Superhero Savior. Singer recognizes this, and just as it'd make no sense for someone to re-film Star Wars: The New Hope, it'd make no sense for Singer to retread ground covered in a film seen by almost anyone, or easily obtained should someone need to see it.

Even if the re-telling functioned as a sort of Mark Waid Birthright, it'd be unfullfilling. It'd have tones of been there, done that. Smallville is Birthright in many respects, and to see it again transfered to the screen is, as my point on this argument are, redundant. It's unneccessary. It's known.

But then people say Singer has no vision, no originality b/c he's linked this film to those. Why not? Why not use what Superman: The Movie as your template, especially if it does contain many successful elements. Superman II even contains great elements that can be harness for future use. Simply linking your films to previous versions is not a lack of originality, not totally redoing the established template is HUMILITY and respect, and in some ways requires much more creativity since you must now make that character function within THAT world, and not one where the convienece of total creation is at your fingertips.

In any respect, Superman Returns is already showing massive qualities of Singer's own directorial vision improving upon Donner's designs. Metropolis is redefined, a art-deco fantasty towering on the East Coast, timeless and austere. Superman looks fantastic, with a more alien atmosphere being brought to him in his space clothing and even his new costume. Not to mention, Superman's exploration of his homeworld is something altogether abandoned in SUperman II, even with Zod and them arriving. Superman II focuses on Superman forgoing his heritage for human love. Singer's pulling away from that, focusing on Superman and his heritage and Superman wanting to know where he's from. This alreayd insinuates a new vision that is much more emotional than things seen before.

Luthor is not the Donner/Lester Luthor. This has already been established. Anyone stating the otherwise is simply just closing their eyes. From stabbing Superman viciously, to his gang plummelling Superman, to his schemes and now his wealth, this is a much more viewable, arrogant, and psychotic Luthor than ever before. The mixture of humor, rage, jealously, and insanity should make Luthor a true well-rounded character, something never gotten from Hackman's version.

But what of Luthor's plan? So he's using Kryptonian technology to create a gigantic continent. Sounds like Superman: The Movie? In ways, yes. However, what villian doesn't always sound the same. Magneto is always attempting to destroy humanity and gain mutant rights. Green Goblin is always attempting to destroy Spider-Man. Joker is psychoticlly trying to test Batman, Two-Face as well, Poison Ivy the environmentalist. That's because these people are characters and these characters have goals and dreams. Luthor is world-domination, however now its mixed up with this rabid hatred for Superman and this ultra-pretenious humanist aspect.

However, in another thread, I already explored why Luthor wanting land is a viable and realistic aim for any meglomaniac and any character who should represent the base desires of humanity, as Luthor should contrast and juxtapose Superman's ultra-idealistic and moralistic take on what humanity should be. For more on that, find my Luthor, Land, and Evil thread.

Either way, Superman Returns is already showing an enormous amount of vision and origianlity -- and I'm not even touching the Lois Lane relationship dynamic, which is the most controversial and most unique and original aspect of the film. It is funny how the same people who deride the film's alleged triteness also critique Singer's approach to Lois/Superman/Richard/kid.

That right there is an inherent example of how people force Singer into a corner. In fact, they build the corner, the house, shove Singer in that house, and then push him into the corner.
You hold your own better than most, but while I agree on some of your points, I still disagree with Singer's approach as a whole - especially the casting of actors who are too young for the Lois & Superman (and a Superman who's too Metrosexual in appearance) that washed out rubber costume.
 
Dr. Fate said:
You hold your own better than most, but while I agree on some of your points, I still disagree with Singer's approach as a whole - especially the casting of actors who are too young for the Lois & Superman (and a Superman who's too Metrosexual in appearance) that washed out rubber costume.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but Reeve was younger than Routh when he was cast as Superman. Not saying your opinion is wrong or anything, but if Routh is too young for Superman, one would assume that Reeve was too young as well.
 
Not me. I'm Loner, Rider... A Rebel.
Pee%20Wee%20Herman.jpg
 
Venom71 said:
I know you are but what am I?:D


An outrageously TREMENDOUS individual?:confused:

That's the word of the day, by the way...:up::) So...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
 
Metropolis_Man said:
Nice post bo. I agree with a lot of your points. Anyone doing a Superman movie would have a giant amount of pressure upon them. And to be honest, through all this bickering, I think Singer is giving us the best movie possible, compared to all the falied attempts and information we've had about previous scripts. This is my opinion and that only.

Co-sign. :up:

And C. Lee, my opinion is better than your. Even Mr. Bill said so. :p :yellow:
 
I realized I didn't even comment on your original post, Bo. I thought I had. Well put and I agree with like 98% of what you had to say. Even if I disagreed with you 98%, I'd still have a very good understanding of your side and it may even made me think a little.

Hopefully some of the detractors and blind haters (yes, there is a difference) can read what you wrote and get something from it.

Oh, and I made this avvy in inspiration to you, Wesyeed.

kidgif.gif
 
wow that's cool. can I have it?

Do you think you can make a 100 x 100 one too? I think I have enough posts to use one of those now.
 
SolidSnakeMGS said:
I realized I didn't even comment on your original post, Bo. I thought I had. Well put and I agree with like 98% of what you had to say. Even if I disagreed with you 98%, I'd still have a very good understanding of your side and it may even made me think a little.

Hopefully some of the detractors and blind haters (yes, there is a difference) can read what you wrote and get something from it.

Oh, and I made this avvy in inspiration to you, Wesyeed.

kidgif.gif

Ahh, that avy is telling me to do things.
 
About originality, nothing is original today. Not even the Matrix movies or the powerless Superman in the comics now or Birthright and thats just 3 examples that nowadays things arent created. Things are recriated with the author`s own spin. I don`t see people bashing the comics when the story is about a powerless Superman fighting crime. That was done many times before. The same with this movie. Superman went back to krypton, The eradicator tried all the time to create new krypton on earth, Superman did have wonderfull stories with emotional problems, society without him, he had a son, etc etc etc. But how he is putting together everything, with this amazing cinematography, showing Clark on the farm, showing obstacles for Superman not be with Lois. This is Singer`s spin. And I think his vision is amazing and faithfull to Superman. June 20th will prove this.
 
SpiderDaniel said:
About originality, nothing is original today. Not even the Matrix movies or the powerless Superman in the comics now or Birthright and thats just 3 examples that nowadays things arent created. Things are recriated with the author`s own spin. I don`t see people bashing the comics when the story is about a powerless Superman fighting crime. That was done many times before. The same with this movie. Superman went back to krypton, The eradicator tried all the time to create new krypton on earth, Superman did have wonderfull stories with emotional problems, society without him, he had a son, etc etc etc. But how he is putting together everything, with this amazing cinematography, showing Clark on the farm, showing obstacles for Superman not be with Lois. This is Singer`s spin. And I think his vision is amazing and faithfull to Superman. June 20th will prove this.

Ain't that the truth. Its hard for something to be completely original now. I think he'll deliever Superman like no other, and in a good way.
 
Metropolis_Man said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Reeve was younger than Routh when he was cast as Superman. Not saying your opinion is wrong or anything, but if Routh is too young for Superman, one would assume that Reeve was too young as well.

The story was what made the difference. In STM, Clark was just becoming established as Superman. In SR Superman is coming back after a 7 year abscence after already being established. That means he has been Superman for lets say...8-9 years. Routh looks like he would've been 15 8 or 9 years ago.
 
SpiderDaniel said:
About originality, nothing is original today. Not even the Matrix movies or the powerless Superman in the comics now or Birthright and thats just 3 examples that nowadays things arent created. Things are recriated with the author`s own spin. I don`t see people bashing the comics when the story is about a powerless Superman fighting crime. That was done many times before. The same with this movie. Superman went back to krypton, The eradicator tried all the time to create new krypton on earth, Superman did have wonderfull stories with emotional problems, society without him, he had a son, etc etc etc. But how he is putting together everything, with this amazing cinematography, showing Clark on the farm, showing obstacles for Superman not be with Lois. This is Singer`s spin. And I think his vision is amazing and faithfull to Superman. June 20th will prove this.

No, this is Donner's spin + a kid.
 
Matt said:
No, this is Donner's spin + a kid.
Call it whatever you want. I call it "a great Superman movie", Donner vision or not.
 
Matt said:
The story was what made the difference. In STM, Clark was just becoming established as Superman. In SR Superman is coming back after a 7 year abscence after already being established. That means he has been Superman for lets say...8-9 years. Routh looks like he would've been 15 8 or 9 years ago.

images


Reeve played a 30 year old Superman who began at 30. Routh plays a 30 year old Superman who began 5-6 years prior before leaving. Its not a difficult concept.
 
SpiderDaniel said:
Call it whatever you want. I call it "a great Superman movie", Donner vision or not.

I see, so as you told me, its unfair for me to judge it before I see it, but its ok for you to?
 
C`mon. We aleready know a lot of the story. And everything i know so far makes me feel more better regarding this movie. I like everything so far so it is very possible i`ll like this movie very much. I know I`ll watch it. But one thing is to say the movie will suck without giving it a chance to watch it. O saying the kid wont work jeust because its a kid. Its totally different. The only thing that bugs me is If the kid does throw pianos at the villains, i know i wont like it. But if he catches a roof to save his mom, then i will. But i`d still prefer him to be powerless. I anyway, its almost sure thing that i`ll like it.

Its possible that the execution of the movie won`t be good as the premise. If thats the case, wich i highly doubt it, then i`ll admit that after i watch the movie.
 
Matt said:
The story was what made the difference. In STM, Clark was just becoming established as Superman. In SR Superman is coming back after a 7 year abscence after already being established. That means he has been Superman for lets say...8-9 years. Routh looks like he would've been 15 8 or 9 years ago.
Hmmm seems to me it has been stated 5-6 years..
You sure spend alot of time on theses boards for a movie you don't like anything about...hope you enjoy it opening night as much as I will...you know you be seeing it or you wouldn't spend so much time on these boards :D
 
SpiderDaniel said:
Plus...Superman doesn`t age.
How you figure that?:confused:
 
SpiderDaniel said:
Plus...Superman doesn`t age.

He does. Just alot slower....but based on the hundreds of Brandon Routh pictures Ive seen, he can definately pass as 30. If Micheal Rosenbaum can be 34 in real life, Brandon could at least come off as 30.
 
He ages slower than humans. And Brandon looks fine to me. A tad young in some shots but great in a lot of shots. I was worrying about Kate Bosworth not being a good Lois but the line" How could you leave us like that? The world doesn`t need a saviour and neither do I" was so well delivered that I don`t have worries anymore.
 
Venom71 said:
Hmmm seems to me it has been stated 5-6 years..
You sure spend alot of time on theses boards for a movie you don't like anything about...hope you enjoy it opening night as much as I will...you know you be seeing it or you wouldn't spend so much time on these boards :D

Actually, I'll be waiting for DVD thanks.
 

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