Sequels Sony is thinking May 2011 for Spidey 4

[Mario_Galaxy]

How are the stories not mature enough? S-M2: Peter has trouble balancing a dual life. He's late for work, and all is gonig wrong for him, so he decides to give up being a superhero. he meets a brilliant scientist, Otto Octavius, experiment goes wrong, Ock goes on a rampage. Forgivenss and redemption are great things for a story, if you ask me. Not trying to sound mean or anything, but I don't see how that isn't a mature enough story. I mean, he can relate to people.

Forgiveness is a good story element, but with Ock? Ock is a bastard in the comics, and shouldn't be controlled by some mind chip. He's an arrogant prick, and I hated how he, much like most of the villains in SM movies are sympathetic. Why can't we hate the villain? It just seems like such a cop out. And then the third movie took it to a whole new level with Sandman's crap. It ruins it for villains like Lizard,who actually are sympathetic. At this rate, if they used him it would probably suck because we've seen the sympathetic villain already.

Also, the whole tension with Harry and Peter got totally teabagged because it turned into a Jerry Springer episode of who's sleeping with MJ. And the tension with MJ? He threw his jacket or whatever at her and started dancing. The entire symbiote thing was dumbed down. Spider-Man didn't go dark, he went silly.

The series just gets progressively goofier. The first one had a pretty serious tone by the end. Peter sacrifices his relationship with MJ,GG gets what's coming to him, Harry swears revenge. But then the execution from thereon is where they dropped the ball.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Forgiveness is a good story element, but with Ock? Ock is a bastard in the comics, and shouldn't be controlled by some mind chip.

Ock being sympathetic boosted up the interactions between Peter and Octavius though. It just adds to the story adn the emotional factor.

 

[chaseter]

Not every villian should be pure evil I want to rule the world and kill Spider-Man archetypes

 

[Mario_Galaxy]

No, but if they are like that in the comics, then yeah they should be in the other versions. Otherwise it's not the character

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

^^ Ock was menacing though.

 

[Mario_Galaxy]

I mainly mean the whole mind chip thing and turning good at the end.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

^^ Well, it doesn't really happen all the time. I mean, look at Venom. He didn't turn good.

 

[Venom 1988]

How are the stories not mature enough? S-M2: Peter has trouble balancing a dual life. He's late for work, and all is gonig wrong for him, so he decides to give up being a superhero. he meets a brilliant scientist, Otto Octavius, experiment goes wrong, Ock goes on a rampage. Forgivenss and redemption are great things for a story, if you ask me. Not trying to sound mean or anything, but I don't see how that isn't a mature enough story. I mean, he can relate to people.

Hes saying the story needs to be handled maturely, not just contain mature themes i.e. everything you listed.

A movie could deal with crime, murder, conspiracies, but if its not handled maturely its going to be so cheesed up.

Ock being sympathetic boosted up the interactions between Peter and Octavius though. It just adds to the story adn the emotional factor.

But that was not Ock. Ock is ruthless character, he may have been sympathetic, but stubborn before his accident, but he shouldn't "die a hero".

 

[FaT_tONle]

I don't have a huge problem with the way Doc was handled... the purists have reason to be up in arms... and the chip/mind control was completely unnecessary... but a couple of scenes aside it was okay. SM2 was a simple enough story. They could get away with that because the first was such a runaway hit... but where they went after SM3... they got even more cheesier, simplistic, and campier... that approach is doomed to fail. If Raimi doesn't start maturing the **** out of these films then we are in trouble. And frankly I don't see the potential. Some of the best villains are gone... who else are they bringing in? Another love interest? Black Cat? I don't see where they will go after SM4.

 

[OsGom]

Here is my problem with the direction of the franchise. Spiderman being a crimefighter of some note is constantly whooping up on independent street level thugs and occasionally taking on a Supervillain who is villainous because of some outside force.

This is NYC and thugs rarely operate independently. SM is stepping on the very big toes of syndicated crime and there is no reprisal? Nothing addressing his impact on organized crime? This is what I'm talking about. NYC in addition to being populated by fine upstanding New yorkers is also populated with drugs dealers, pimps, ****es, junkies, killers, mafia, corrupt law enforcement and many other desperate characters. It's not effin Candyland!

Raimi's NY is a fantasy where SM operates apparently unopposed except by the occasional psychotic super being. Now I realize the tone was set post 9/11 and I understood that SM1 needed the love story between Spiderman and NYC. But just like any relationship the shine comes off the apple. SM would actually see the seedy under belly and have to deal with it. I'm not sure Raimi is the right director to address these themes. He's good at cheesy action but I want to see the movies evolve.

As much as I am a fan of Spiderman and these movies there were definitely problems at the writing and direction level that followed the movies throughout.

Just a few issues I had.

Is it too much to ask that SM retains is mask in an action sequence? He never loses a boot or a glove. it's always the mask. Also someone on a subway train is going to snap a pic with their camera phone I don't care how much they appreciate Spiderman saving their lives.

Why is Doc Ock robbing a bank? Is he going to use his ill gotten gains to go into Radioshack and pay cash for a new trillium containment system? Makes more sense for Otto to just steal the tech.

Gobby was dumbed down and handled poorly from the get go. Note to writers : Stop killing off the hero's arch-nemesis in a franchise!

The entire "hero's choice" sequence was ridiculous. It's a sky tram! The cable is not tied to the cabin. In addition yes Spidey saved the one cabin but nevermind about the hundreds of people in the other cabins that plummeted to their deaths when Gobby cut the cable.

SM3 was even worse. I know Raimi fans want to shift all blame to the studio and Avrad but he is the director and as much as I appreciate what he has done for the genre I just don't think he is that good. I know! I know! Blasphemy! But he accomplished more than any B movie director could have hoped. But in the end he is a B movie director. Raimi needs to mature as a director and that's not going to happen directing superheroes and horror movies. Let someone else take SM in a different direction and let the character grow.

 

[The Joker]

I agree with most of your points, but I have to address these two:

Why is Doc Ock robbing a bank? Is he going to use his ill gotten gains to go into Radioshack and pay cash for a new trillium containment system? Makes more sense for Otto to just steal the tech.

Obviously Ock had to order the tech from somewhere. Hence why he needed the money. Parts for a fusion reactor like his are obviously not very common in New York.

If fusion reactors were common, Ock's dream would be redundant.

Gobby was dumbed down and handled poorly from the get go. Note to writers : Stop killing off the hero's arch-nemesis in a franchise!

Norman had to die in the Goblin story. In order for Harry to hate Spider-Man, his father had to die seemingly at Spider-Man's hands.

 

[Jick]

Gobby was dumbed down and handled poorly from the get go.

Dumbed down? Handled poorly?
How's that?

 

[OsGom]

I agree with most of your points, but I have to address these two:



Obviously Ock had to order the tech from somewhere. Hence why he needed the money. Parts for a fusion reactor like his are obviously not very common in New York.

If fusion reactors were common, Ock's dream would be redundant.

Okay but again you have the same problem. Does he take the money to the bank next door and open an account? Does he COD the parts? I'm just pointing out you go through the trouble of fusing tentacles to a guy and you have him rob a bank? In the comics he could lose the harness but in Raimi's vision that wasn't an option. It just didn't make sense other than a contrived vehicle to put him in the right place at the right time to battle Spidey with may at risk. It's lazy writing.

Norman had to die in the Goblin story. In order for Harry to hate Spider-Man, his father had to die seemingly at Spider-Man's hands.

I agree Norman had to die at some point but why cram the origin and the Green Goblin's death into the first film. Also why do they have to be so lazy about it.

For example. If Harry believed his father was murdered why not go to the police and make Spiderman even more of a menace? Also after Hary's thought process after finding his father cache is simply to use it to kill Peter and not "Oh **** my daddy WAS the Green Goblin! Maybe I should think about this?" And how convenient that Harry's butler (having treated so many glider impalements) just happened to recognize that Norman's wounds were self inflicted but didn't think it important to share with the son who believed and obsessed about his father's murder until SM3?

Let's face it Gobby was muffed from the beginning by the lazy storytelling that cursed the entire franchise. Don't get me wrong. I liked SM1 & 2 but I thought the franchise could have been so much more if they had been more patient and had the vision to see this as a franchise from the beginning.