Discussion in 'Venom' started by Thread Manager, Aug 1, 2018.
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]541385[/split]
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]539063[/split]
Plus they are making certain things unnecessarily stupid. Brock's Bobby Boucher voice and stupid accent for example.
I would have liked to have such a promising Venom in a Spider-Man movie, rather than a spinoff, but considering what a joke Homecoming was, it's better not to be tied with Spider-Man at the moment, especially if it's gonna be good by any chance.
I don't know if the movie will be good or bad, you can't judge by this trailer, but I just hope it won't be an epic fail. But if it is, I won't cry as I'm kind of done with the Spidey-verse overall unfortunately.
Homecoming was largely well liked
Whatever they try with Venom, nothing will top his PS1 portrayal.
So? I don't see how this post is any relevant to my post.
I think a lot of us were wanting a Horror/Thriller movie in the vein of Alien/Aliens but with Venom. I dont agree with the notion that a serious Venom movie couldnt have worked, and I wouldve used the Ridley Scott/James Cameron classics as templates to use for a scary, badass Venom movie.
My point is public perception is not that Homecoming was a joke. Public perception largely is positive. So for you personally, it being tied to Homecoming may be not that appealing, but on a wider scale, the Venom series being loosely tied to it would draw more interest and I do think more people would like it. I'm not telling you how to personally feel, but your previous comments makes it sound like your belief is people view Homecoming as a joke that is best avoided. When that is not reality.
What I said was my opinion, how it is in my view personally.
And just because something is largely appreciated it doesn't mean it's good nor that everyone has to like it. In other words, I don't like Homecoming (for me it was a joke, I didn't say how people view it) and my hope of getting a proper Spidey movie is long gone. But everyone else can feel free to rate it as one of the best superhero movies for all I care.
From what I've read, Sony are intending for Venom to launch their own cinematic universe, but if their universe is unrelated to the MCU, I wonder just how far they can go with it. If it's just going to be a film about a bunch of symbionts, it's going to get very boring very quickly.
I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be Sony's Catwoman.
I kinda agree with Krypton's post. I obviously like the character (hence the username) but beyond the design and some initial appearances, there really isn't much to him. I understand he's kind of a one trick pony (Joker's favorite term for him ). And that's fine...not every character needs depth. But unfortunately his popularity has put him into the spotlight of being THE Spidey villain to a lot of people even though there's little justification for it.
Alone there isnt much to him. But putting him against Spider-Man would of added more to the character. Alone without the revenge angle he is rather boring but fighting Spider-Man and stalking him and his loved ones ? Thats where the character shines. His best stories..... are with Spider-Man . Being a villain. Seeking revenge. Spinoff can work somtimes but not all the time
Does TASM2 count as a Catwoman?
That was more BvS before BvS.
Glad I wasn't the only one getting a Catwoman vibe
Forbes has an entire article comparing this to Catwoman, I haven't had the time to read it yet tho
Someone here put it best. He sounds like someone hit Christopher Walken in the back of the head with a shovel.
Somehow Brock's voice sounds even more stupid in this trailer. It sounds like Tom Hardy came to the set one day, started talking like that and no one had the guts to tell him no and just rolled with it.
I want to see this on screen.
Someone called him Spider-Man, he/they felt offended.
Agreed. There's a reason that both the 90s TAS and SSM improved vastly on the character. Heck, the idea that the symbiote was a negative influence on personality didn't exist until the 90's toon did it.
By far the most interesting version of Brock, in my opinion, was the SSM cartoon. That made him into a character that I wanted to see return and wanted to learn more about. My biggest disappointment with this movie is that it means we won't see that version of Brock incorporated into the Homecoming Spider-verse, which is a shame, because it would fit perfectly.
For those who want a really good Eddie Brock venom story yall need to check out Marvel's current run on venom. Makes Eddie feel like a great character but the book has really brought depth to the symbiote. Also gives the symbiote an interesting new origin. Its quietly one of the best comics out right now.
I've been contemplating this for months and I've only really gathered my thoughts recently. This is a fairly long post - or essay - so if you want, you can read the TL;DR but I've complimented my observations with pictures just to make it easier.
For starters, I can see the angle Sony is going for based on the Venom film's marketing. The gritty, Deadpool-esque humour and anti-heroism we associate Venom with is a trademark for the character. An example is when Venom literally takes the piss out of Stone in a battle between Styx and Stone against himself and Spider-Man.
Another exciting prospect is the Jekyll and Hyde relationship between Brock and the symbiote being fleshed out. We've only really seen glimpses of it in Spidey lore. The true crystallization of it would supposedly be the Brock of the Ultimate comics, and, in my opinion, the best incarnation of Brock.
Venom's art style is also astounding. Visually, the antithetical Spidey aesthetic and reptilian edge you love with him. Again, this is easily the focal point of Sony's marketing campaign.
But the issue at hand is that Sony is, in cinematic fashion, ignoring the secret ingredient to Venom. Venom is LITERALLY an ANTITHESIS TO SPIDER-MAN. Imagine a double-edged sword of morality, of absolute good and evil. Although nonsensical to any random observer, Peter is the true personification of benevolence. He embodies what all superheroes strive to do and, above all, is easy to relate to. A neurotic kid with amazing intellect and abilities, escaping and rectifying his daily problems through his alter ego as Spidey.
The thing is any traditional rivalry or well-known one is that a writer will, to great effect, flesh out the motivations and origins of the two characters and often times, they will be completely identical or completely dissimilar. Brock is nothing like Spider-Man, and that is what makes Venom - well - Venom. He TRULY is everything Peter Parker is not. Now, although I have reservations about Eddie Brock's backstory owing to the moral inconsistency of it, the general formula for the Eddie-Peter rivalry archetype is easy to follow with Eddie.
The Amazing Spider-Man depicted Eddie as a half-loved child raised by a cruel single Dad. This rancour and bitterness motivated him to appease those around him - his father and Ann Weying in particular. As a result, you really begin to see the type of man Brock is. He protected whom he thought was a serial killer - the Sin-Eater - for journalistic integrity, which was later sabotaged when Peter caught the real murderer.
Now, I'm not a fan of this story by any means but there is a redeeming quality to its own disconnectedness - Brock is simply a hypocrite. For example, Brock's own actions in his VERY FIRST APPEARANCE as Venom reflect his malevolence and twisted determination he cultivates in order to fulfill his vengeance - the killing of the police officer, giving Mary Jane a panic attack, stalking Spider-Man, etc. He's the personification of a stalker with super powers, really.
A fellow Irishman on this board by the name of The Joker pointed this out a while ago, remarking on Brock's sanctimoniousness as a villain and how shoddy it is to write a character that appears high and mighty when emulating, and exaggerating, acts of villainy. Although I personally enjoy the ludicrousness of this and the hypocrisy of Brock's character, this made me rethink Eddie Brock's characterization and most Spidey villains for that matter. Ask yourself this: how many great Spider-Man villains have there been on par with Goblin, Ock and Venom? That's another question for another day, though. I'll stick to the topic.
The aforementioned shoddy writing, and the mesmerizing Eddie-Peter rivalry paved way for better written Spidey stories we all loved and associated with Venom. The 90's cartoon improved this, setting Brock's foundations clearer as a fellow competitor with Peter at the Daily Bugle. Ultimate Spider-Man and Spectacular Spider-Man evoked a teenage tale of a strong, raw friendship broken down when Brock began to despise what he saw as Peter's venture into selfishness. All of these characterizations of Eddie Brock have been fantastic and the rivalries exemplified in high-intensity action scenes between the web-slinger and dejected, rejected and subjected Brock/Venom.
Now, the formula to a great Venom story was as I already mentioned. We've already witnessed a Venom story told and delivered in the wrong hands...or should I say, misused...?
My point is, the journalist backstory is exclusion of a an existing rivalry between two great characters is terrible for screenwriting and continuity concerns. If you want to make a Lethal Protector film? Do it. But don't use the journalist backstory. DON'T exclude Spider-Man's relevance as as character, or even his mere existence. Sony is missing out on all the essential components, doing what, in my opinion, is inevitably setting up the fans and even mainstream for a disappointing film.
The moral of the story?
Don't write characters because they simply LOOK cool.
Don't characterize villains with bad origin stories.
And don't eat butter without bread. Or don't eat bread at all. That'd probably be the better option. Carbs are nasty!
I'd rather see something more like this.