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Spider-Man 1 vs Man of Steel

I don't care whether or not it was hated more. I've not really been of the mind of siding with those perceptions, as a whole. I think the highs of SM3 are higher than MOS. Irregardless of it's flaws, I think, to me, MOS is weaker movie, with weaker characters, story, and such, than SM3.

You told me I was forgetting all the movie's flaws.

And i don't care about your opinion (in denial) about SM3.

The movie is garbage, with terrible portryals, terrible acting and a weak trilogy ending.

MOS is much better, Raimi films (except the 1st) and massively overrated and filled with a bunch of flaws that nobody wants to ever talk about (nostalgia).
 
The interesting thing is , is that SM3 was actually polarizing among fans when it was first released , and the critics didn't universally pan it.

Even on these boards, there was a split on the film initially at least.

It didn't take long however, for a consensus to take hold that it wasn't a very good film in general.

I think the better comparison with Man of Steel is The Amazing Spiderman 1, than Spiderman 3 is really.

ASM and MOS had a similar divided reaction in their fanbases , though MOS's polarization was more intense.

I think Amazing Spiderman 2 is more comparable to BvS in the sense that they were both made to kick off cinematic universes, both through everything and the kitchen sink in order to branch off into spin off films, both got a negative reactions from the critics, and both ultimately led to the development of reboots , though ASM universe has been closed... for now at least, while the Snyder-verse is alive and well.

What are you talking about?

SM2 was considered one of the best films alongside X2, Begins and V For Vendetta at the time.

The 3rd film was a drop of literally 26 points and 30% off critic scores and was insanely hated.

MOS was split like TASM but the audience score is positive (while being kinda divisive), Spider-Man 3 is not.

I agree about TASM2 and BvS.
 
No, I think Spider-Man 3 vs. Man of Steel is a far better comparison. There are memes about SM3, but it was nowhere near as hated as BvS. I do like MoS better as a whole. I find SM3 too cluttered. But there is still some good stuff in SM3, and I don't think the films are that far apart in terms of quality. They are both in that sort of okay-to-mediocre range.

I think your memory is playing tricks on you as to just how disliked SM3 was not just by Spider-Man & CB fans on forums like this, but also the general public. Either that or the fact that social media was more prevalent when BvS released than SM3 makes it seem like it was far more hated when it was a lot more similar than you might think.

From IMDb

- Batman vs Superman has a rating of 6.4/10 from 614,000 user ratings.

- Spider-Man 3 has a rating of 6.2/10 from 490,000 user ratings.

- Man of Steel has a rating of 7/10 from 680,0000 user ratings.


From Rotten Tomatoes

- Batman vs Superman has a user rating of 62% from 234,000 user ratings

- Spider-Man 3 has a user rating of 51% from 2,265,000 user ratings

- Man of Steel has a rating of 75% from 448,000 user ratings.

From Metacritic

- Batman vs Superman has a rating of 6.9 from 6,500 user ratings

- Spider-Man 3 has a rating of 6.8 from 1,600 user ratings

- Man of Steel has a rating of 7.5 from 3,700 user ratings


Obviously this isn't scientifically fool proof as there are IMO some anomalies with ratings on websites like those I've quoted, however in all 3 of those websites that allow user ratings/reviews all rank SM3 below, but far more similar, to BvS as a film than MoS.
 
I actually like Spider-Man 3 the best of the originals now. It's definitely terrible, but it is also got the kind of badness I find really fun, where as the first two movies kind of just bore me now. I know this isn't close to the consensus, just wanted to say it. Also my favorite Superman flick, is Superman II, but yeah slim pickings.
 
And i don't care about your opinion (in denial) about SM3.

The movie is garbage, with terrible portryals, terrible acting and a weak trilogy ending.

MOS is much better, Raimi films (except the 1st) and massively overrated and filled with a bunch of flaws that nobody wants to ever talk about (nostalgia).
I didn't bring up our respective opinions and how they differ. You brought up how hated it was. That has nothing to do with my opinion. I didn't say anything about your specific opinion. You don't get to decide whether or not I'm in denial about a work of fiction.

I think MOS is a weak start, with weak portrayals and not strong acting. While I may have issues with acting in parts, in spite of me thinking as an ending it could be stronger, I think it has more that I think works for the movie as a whole.

Your perception is no more fact than mine.
 
I actually like Spider-Man 3 the best of the originals now. It's definitely terrible, but it is also got the kind of badness I find really fun, where as the first two movies kind of just bore me now. I know this isn't close to the consensus, just wanted to say it. Also my favorite Superman flick, is Superman II, but yeah slim pickings.

Spider-Man 3 falls into a category similar to BvS of just being OK for me, I don't personally think either of them are truly bad.. just poor. That might be somewhat contradictory way to describe them, but I can watch them both.. however I'm biased & I know I'm biased because I can pretty much watch any CBM & be content.

The only Spider-Man film I enjoy from the Maguire series these days is Spider-Man 2, which for me I still think is 1 of the best CBM's to date.

The original Spider-Man 1, at the time, I loved & it was the best thing since sliced bread. However as I believe I said earlier in this thread, for some reason the film just has not aged well at all for me.
 
What are you talking about?

SM2 was considered one of the best films alongside X2, Begins and V For Vendetta at the time.

The 3rd film was a drop of literally 26 points and 30% off critic scores and was insanely hated.

MOS was split like TASM but the audience score is positive (while being kinda divisive), Spider-Man 3 is not.

I agree about TASM2 and BvS.

I'm wasn't talking about audience and critics scores . I was talking about the first reactions of fans in real time not looking at accumulated scores of reviews over the past two decades.

I'm talking from the point of view of someone who was 28 when the film came out, and actually remembers the first reactions to the film were in the first weeks among fans.

When SM3 was first released , i.e the first couple of weeks, the fan response was more split, and when I use the term split I don't mean divisive. I mean that, some people felt one way, other people felt another.

It was certainly split here on these boards which I was actually on in real time in 2007. You may not have been around here then, so you may not have known or remembered that.

It never got to the point that films like MOS did in terms of intensity of divisions. Some thought it was overall fine with flaws, others, like myself, thought it was just plain bad.

Heck, you can go back to old you tube videos from around the time the film was released and see that the reaction was more mixed. No one claimed it was the best film.

It wasn't long however that a consensus formed that the film was bad. Again, there's a difference between initial reactions of something in real time and a consensus that builds over time.

I agree with you on SM2 , X2 , etc ., because , again, I was an adult then, saw those films in theaters, and saw them when those films were praised ,so you're not telling me anything I don't already know or remember.

MOS and TASM are more comparable since they were both reboots made in the same context, both made split fans over the visions of their characters and tones of their films.

Though, I concede the divide over MOS was much stronger with Superman fans than the divide with Spiderman fans over TASM was.

I agree with you the SM3 was not divisive in terms of reaction, which is why I consider ASM and MOS the more comparable films.
 
I didn't bring up our respective opinions and how they differ. You brought up how hated it was. That has nothing to do with my opinion. I didn't say anything about your specific opinion. You don't get to decide whether or not I'm in denial about a work of fiction.

I think MOS is a weak start, with weak portrayals and not strong acting. While I may have issues with acting in parts, in spite of me thinking as an ending it could be stronger, I think it has more that I think works for the movie as a whole.

Your perception is no more fact than mine.

Fair enough, but you were heavily downplaying MOS and all the good stuff (cinematography, soundtrack and villain) and not getting my criticism of SM3.

That's your opinion man. The acting was fine for me, I am not expecting TDK, or The Godfather or Fight Club's performances acting-wise.

I'm wasn't talking about audience and critics scores . I was talking about the first reactions of fans in real time not looking at accumulated scores of reviews over the past two decades.

I'm talking from the point of view of someone who was 28 when the film came out, and actually remembers the first reactions to the film were in the first weeks among fans.

When SM3 was first released , i.e the first couple of weeks, the fan response was more split, and when I use the term split I don't mean divisive. I mean that, some people felt one way, other people felt another.

It was certainly split here on these boards which I was actually on in real time in 2007. You may not have been around here then, so you may not have known or remembered that.

It never got to the point that films like MOS did in terms of intensity of divisions. Some thought it was overall fine with flaws, others, like myself, thought it was just plain bad.

Heck, you can go back to old you tube videos from around the time the film was released and see that the reaction was more mixed. No one claimed it was the best film.

It wasn't long however that a consensus formed that the film was bad. Again, there's a difference between initial reactions of something in real time and a consensus that builds over time.

I agree with you on SM2 , X2 , etc ., because , again, I was an adult then, saw those films in theaters, and saw them when those films were praised ,so you're not telling me anything I don't already know or remember.

MOS and TASM are more comparable since they were both reboots made in the same context, both made split fans over the visions of their characters and tones of their films.

Though, I concede the divide over MOS was much stronger with Superman fans than the divide with Spiderman fans over TASM was.

I agree with you the SM3 was not divisive in terms of reaction, which is why I consider ASM and MOS the more comparable films.

Fair enough, I agree that TASM and MOS are split the same way. But TASM has aged worse in the fanbase, honestly. I see more people defending MOS than TASM but the people who didn't like it, really hate MOS.

i wasn't in these forums in 2007 so I don't know what exactly the response was but every site seems to don't like it now tbh.
 
Spider-Man 3 falls into a category similar to BvS of just being OK for me, I don't personally think either of them are truly bad.. just poor. That might be somewhat contradictory way to describe them, but I can watch them both.. however I'm biased & I know I'm biased because I can pretty much watch any CBM & be content.

The only Spider-Man film I enjoy from the Maguire series these days is Spider-Man 2, which for me I still think is 1 of the best CBM's to date.

The original Spider-Man 1, at the time, I loved & it was the best thing since sliced bread. However as I believe I said earlier in this thread, for some reason the film just has not aged well at all for me.

Spider-Man 2 is massively overrated and nowhere close where some people say it is (nostalgia lol) and the 1st is actually a far stronger film overall.

the story is not rushed, and it has good pacing, good origin story, way better villain and better action overall. 2nd is closer to the 3rd than the 1st imo lmao.
 
I think your memory is playing tricks on you as to just how disliked SM3 was not just by Spider-Man & CB fans on forums like this, but also the general public. Either that or the fact that social media was more prevalent when BvS released than SM3 makes it seem like it was far more hated when it was a lot more similar than you might think.

From IMDb

- Batman vs Superman has a rating of 6.4/10 from 614,000 user ratings.

- Spider-Man 3 has a rating of 6.2/10 from 490,000 user ratings.

- Man of Steel has a rating of 7/10 from 680,0000 user ratings.


From Rotten Tomatoes

- Batman vs Superman has a user rating of 62% from 234,000 user ratings

- Spider-Man 3 has a user rating of 51% from 2,265,000 user ratings

- Man of Steel has a rating of 75% from 448,000 user ratings.

From Metacritic

- Batman vs Superman has a rating of 6.9 from 6,500 user ratings

- Spider-Man 3 has a rating of 6.8 from 1,600 user ratings

- Man of Steel has a rating of 7.5 from 3,700 user ratings


Obviously this isn't scientifically fool proof as there are IMO some anomalies with ratings on websites like those I've quoted, however in all 3 of those websites that allow user ratings/reviews all rank SM3 below, but far more similar, to BvS as a film than MoS.

I find online audience ratings to be completely unreliable due to manipulation from online trolls and grifters. Just look at that RT number for SM3. In that particular case, there was a mass attempt to tank the audience ratings for the Raimi films when ASM came out. I remember it happening.

Far more reliable are critical scores.

Rotten Tomatoes Tomatometer: Spider-Man 3 63% vs. Batman v Superman 28%
Top Critics: Spider-Man 3 50% vs. Batman v Superman 27%
Average Score: Spider-Man 3 6.2/10 vs. Batman v Superman 5/10

Metacritic: Spider-Man 3 59 vs. Batman v Superman 44

And the best audience response can often be found in Cinemascore and Box Office drops.

Cinemascore: Spider-Man 3 B+ vs. Batman v Superman B

And perhaps the biggest thing of all. Spider-Man 3 had a lower opening weekend than Batman v Superman, yet grossed more money overall.

Now I'm not saying these things for Spider-Man 3 means it was more highly regarded than Man of Steel. I don't. In fact, I think Man of Steel is slightly more popular. But these numbers are far closer to Man of Steel's than they are Batman v Superman's.
 
Man of Steel was more enjoyed by the nerdy Comicbook nerd minority.... That same group loathed Spider-Man 3. Especially how they handled fan-favorite Venom.

Spider-Man 3, however, was far more successful with general audiences. Obvious from it's WOM and Box Office legs.


Spider-Man 3 VS Justice League 2017 would be a fairer fight though;

- Both the third film in their respective trilogies.

- Both suffered from major studio interference

- Both had massive budgets in the 300M range

- Both considered big disappointments from critics, fans and audiences

- Both led to the derailment of their respective franchises
 
Both SM3 and JL are garbage.

I pick SM3 tbh because I hated Steppenwolf lol
 
Man of Steel was more enjoyed by the nerdy Comicbook nerd minority.... That same group loathed Spider-Man 3. Especially how they handled fan-favorite Venom.

Spider-Man 3, however, was far more successful with general audiences. Obvious from it's WOM and Box Office legs.

I don't think there's as big as split in fandom overall over the two films if we're talking about like and disliking the films.

This is the only thread i've ever seen any real debate connecting or pitting the two films against each other.

If anything, MOS and SM3 both get hate from fanboys because their perceived lack of fidelity to the source material.

I'd say SM3 was more successful with the GA, while the GA was more "meh" to MOS as opposed to the hatred alot fanboys tend to have toward it.
 
Fair enough, but you were heavily downplaying MOS and all the good stuff (cinematography, soundtrack and villain) and not getting my criticism of SM3.
I've not been that into the soundtrack and cinematography. The villain, I've long held the perception of the villain not being that strong as far as character wise.
 
I've not been that into the soundtrack and cinematography. The villain, I've long held the perception of the villain not being that strong as far as character wise.

Fair enough. I flat out dislike Venom and Harry and i'm mixed on Sandman so can't say i agree with you here.
 
I find online audience ratings to be completely unreliable due to manipulation from online trolls and grifters. Just look at that RT number for SM3. In that particular case, there was a mass attempt to tank the audience ratings for the Raimi films when ASM came out. I remember it happening.

Far more reliable are critical scores.

Rotten Tomatoes Tomatometer: Spider-Man 3 63% vs. Batman v Superman 28%
Top Critics: Spider-Man 3 50% vs. Batman v Superman 27%
Average Score: Spider-Man 3 6.2/10 vs. Batman v Superman 5/10

Metacritic: Spider-Man 3 59 vs. Batman v Superman 44

And the best audience response can often be found in Cinemascore and Box Office drops.

Cinemascore: Spider-Man 3 B+ vs. Batman v Superman B

And perhaps the biggest thing of all. Spider-Man 3 had a lower opening weekend than Batman v Superman, yet grossed more money overall.

Now I'm not saying these things for Spider-Man 3 means it was more highly regarded than Man of Steel. I don't. In fact, I think Man of Steel is slightly more popular. But these numbers are far closer to Man of Steel's than they are Batman v Superman's.

Couldn't disagree more with this, what a critic sees compared to the audience are often worlds apart. If anything I think the critical scores are even more unreliable & don't reflect the general public at all.

In regards to the SM3 ratings being sabotaged by trolls, for that to actually have worked & still be evident today ie the score still remaining low, there literally would have needed to have been hundreds of thousands of troll reviews for the simple fact that if it had any less, the sheer volume of reviews all 3 of Raimi's now have that the score would have risen significantly, not dropped or remained the same. SM1 has 34m, SM2 1.1m & SM3 2.2m.
 

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