Spidey Vs.........who will win?

[Sloth7d]

In that aspect, Mr. Fantastic will always be the aloof scientist who cares not for anybody, and any other representation has been mischaracterized. Dr. Doom will always be some tyrannical despot who has zero cares for anything else. The Silver Surfer will always be some emo little guy with tons of power, and any showing of compassion and anger is mischaracterized. Peter Parker will always be this meek guy who can't take charge of his own life or make big decisions.

Like I said, you guys view Tony in one dimension, not as a character. Which is fun in it's own way, but totally inaccurate.

Most of these characters actually were never like this until lately though. Peter Parker NEVER used to suck up to superheroes. Ever. I blame his ultimate characters personality spilling in on 616 for that.
And Tony never manipulated his friends before, maybe the public but not his friends.
And well, the surfer will always be emo because he has no stroodle.t:

 

[Sloth7d]

Yep, but it's poor quality tech isn't it? In Iron Man #14 a mere repulsor shot put out Spidey for good. But you wouldn't dare to read it, would you?

Didn't you say Ironman messing with his Spidersense took him off guard. He didn't have time to brace for it or get ready to dodge it.

Stark has better tech against the Shocker. Always. Iron Man's suit is state of the art. Sleek with many surprises.

This doesn't change the fact that Shockers shock blast thats put holes in peoples gut didn't even ko Spiderman when it hit him.

How do you think Shocker or Spidey fare against Venom, huh? Well, Iron Man had Venom for lunch.

You mean the guy Spiderman always beats?
But never read the issue where Ironman beat Venom, but knowing him he probably just exploited Venoms weakness to loud noise. Eitherway, the he beat him so logically he can beat him argument works both ways here.
Spiderman beat Hulk before. Guess what? Ironman consistantly loses to the Hulk. Does that mean Ironman can't beat Spiderman?

Yeah, but if Spidey got hit, say buh bye.

Not neccessarily.

Again, if you think he's just a man in a bulky armor, you're wrong. Inside he has a computer working to manage the armor. Furthermore now he got Extremis inside and it should fasten his response time interfacing with the computer. Pity that most readers and writers don't take into account this.

Most readers and writers forget that Spiderman defeated Firelord in the past. That his powers were supposed to evolve or something(I saw no change). And that Spiderman has stingers(though I'm glad they forgot that). But I'm not whining about it. All I do know is that in Civilwar #5 he knocked IM all the way across the room and into the next. In amazing Spiderman #536 he knocked part of Tonys armor offline with one punch and overrided his fail safe in the ironspidey suit. Out brawned and outsmarted him. Complete defeat.

Futurist is just a fancy word made up by Marvel. Fact of the matter is, Peter can't make up his own mind and of gullible type.

One that was never true for Peter Parker until Joe Queseda took over Marvel.
Two,
Futurism.
n. 1. A belief that the meaning of life and one's personal fulfillment lie in the future and not in the present or past.
2. An artistic movement originating in Italy around 1910 whose aim was to express the energetic, dynamic, and violent quality of contemporary life, especially as embodied in the motion and force of modern machinery.

fu

tur·ist n.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/futurist

Its a real word.

 

[ibsisomis]

Where the Hell is this going!!!!^^^

 

[Sloth7d]

Don't know. But I have a feeling this may turn into another who can beat Hulk thread exept with Spiderman. Then again, no. Spiderman fans can admit when Spideys been beat.

 

[chiefchirpa]

Didn't you say Ironman messing with his Spidersense took him off guard. He didn't have time to brace for it or get ready to dodge it.

Read Iron Man #14. Stop speculating.

This doesn't change the fact that Shockers shock blast thats put holes in peoples gut didn't even ko Spiderman when it hit him.

So? Then Shocker blast must have sucked than. It wouldn't hurt Spidey, then it wouldn't even make a mark on Iron Man.

You mean the guy Spiderman always beats?
But never read the issue where Ironman beat Venom, but knowing him he probably just exploited Venoms weakness to loud noise. Eitherway, the he beat him so logically he can beat him argument works both ways here.
Spiderman beat Hulk before. Guess what? Ironman consistantly loses to the Hulk. Does that mean Ironman can't beat Spiderman?

Quite many people talked that Spider-Man vs Hulk is a cheap knock-off. If you put that story today, people would laugh it off. Hulk is really the strongest one there is. 25 ton Spider-Man wouldn't hurt the Hulk. Heck even 90 ton Iron Man punch would only make Hulk angry, and when he's angry he gets stronger. Hulk is a league above both Iron Man and Spider-Man, so give him a heck a lot more respect here.

As for Iron Man _very barely_ beating the Hulk:

http://secretearths.blogspot.com/search/label/Iron Man

Yeah, check on Iron Man vs Venom, too while you're there

All I do know is that in Civilwar #5 he knocked IM all the way across the room and into the next.

Yeah that was one unprepared Iron Man

In amazing Spiderman #536 he knocked part of Tonys armor offline with one punch and overrided his fail safe in the ironspidey suit. Out brawned and outsmarted him. Complete defeat.

You got a different issue of Spidey #536 because the only thing he does is web shot Iron Man's head. He never knocked out Tony's armor offline and ran away. Complete defeat? Spidey chicken out and get maimed by 2 mere C-grade villains. Remember?

See, I read Spider-Man but you haven't read Iron Man where Tony ***** slaps Peter for a real KO. Talk about a balance of view.

fu

tur·ist n.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/futurist

Its a real word.

The context, my friend. I know it's a real word but it's the context of "Futurist" with Iron Man. It has never been intended to have any meaning IMO. If he's a "Futurist" why can't he see Cap before getting killed. Or Spidey has a soft touch on incarceration?

Futurist is just catch-word made up by Marvel to make Iron Man look cool, but it more makes him kind of like a fool.

 

[Sloth7d]

Read Iron Man #14. Stop speculating.

But you already said it yourself, that he messed with his spidersense so he could hit him. He was off guard.

So? Then Shocker blast must have sucked than. It wouldn't hurt Spidey, then it wouldn't even make a mark on Iron Man.

A blast that can make a tunnel out of the average human doesn't suck. Spiderman took his blast and got back up for more because he braced himself for it. Spiderman did not brace for the attack.

Quite many people talked that Spider-Man vs Hulk is a cheap knock-off. If you put that story today, people would laugh it off. Hulk is really the strongest one there is. 25 ton Spider-Man wouldn't hurt the Hulk. Heck even 90 ton Iron Man punch would only make Hulk angry, and when he's angry he gets stronger. Hulk is a league above both Iron Man and Spider-Man, so give him a heck a lot more respect here.

With this logic I can argue Ironman defeating Spiderman in #14 was a knock off, because he's taken worse hits than that before being ko'd. Its a circulatory debate. We get nowhere if we argue like that. The point is Spiderman beat him.

Yeah that was one unprepared Iron Man

You mean the IM who attacked Spiderman first in ASM #535 leading to that confrontation. If he was unprepared, then he trully sucks.

You got a different issue of Spidey #536 because the only thing he does is web shot Iron Man's head. He never knocked out Tony's armor offline and ran away. Complete defeat? Spidey chicken out and get maimed by 2 mere C-grade villains. Remember?

This is how the issue goes as quote:
scene:Spiderman falls out the building. Saids ow.
Ironman stands over him.
Ironman:I trusted you Pete! I took you under my wings! This is how you repay me?
Spiderman:No....
He uppercuts IM.
Spiderman:..This is!
Spiderman leaps at a fallen IM.
Spiderman:And if you liked that, theres even more where that came--
Ironman cowardly activates the override in his suit.
More dialogue of Ironman gloating with how he had failsafes in the suit and all that. Spiderman overrides the failsafe, webs IMs head and punches him so hard his sensory apparatus is knocked offline. It has to reboot, but by the time it does Spideys gone.

And don't say he retreated. Its more like he didn't want to be caught the several cape killers that were still in the building abouve.

See, I read Spider-Man

Funny because you left out several details.

but you haven't read Iron Man where Tony ***** slaps Peter for a real KO. Talk about a balance of view.

So did he hit him or blast him unconscious? Make up your mind.

The context, my friend. I know it's a real word but it's the context of "Futurist" with Iron Man. It has never been intended to have any meaning IMO. If he's a "Futurist" why can't he see Cap before getting killed. Or Spidey has a soft touch on incarceration?

You're confusing the word futurist with fortune teller. A futurist is just a person who prepares for several things that may happen. They can't predict them all or be right about all predictions.

Futurist is just catch-word made up by Marvel to make Iron Man look cool, but it more makes him kind of like a fool.

Its not a made up word though. And you're confusing its meaning.

 

[chiefchirpa]

But you already said it yourself, that he messed with his spidersense so he could hit him. He was off guard.

A KO is a KO. The moral of the story is the only way Spidey can beat Iron Man is never to get hit by his repulsor. One hit of the repulsor could KO him. Repulsor connects, Spidey fall down.

A blast that can make a tunnel out of the average human doesn't suck. Spiderman took his blast and got back up for more because he braced himself for it. Spiderman did not brace for the attack.

There are many heros and villains in the Marvel U that's stronger and durable than Spider-Man. A blast that won't hurt even Spidey - lame

With this logic I can argue Ironman defeating Spiderman in #14 was a knock off, because he's taken worse hits than that before being ko'd. Its a circulatory debate. We get nowhere if we argue like that. The point is Spiderman beat him.

Iron Man make Spiderman out cold. Utter defeat. KO (Iron Man 14)
Spidey disable Iron Man sensor and ran like chicken - Inconclusive (ASM 536)

You mean the IM who attacked Spiderman first in ASM #535 leading to that confrontation. If he was unprepared, then he trully sucks.

He just wanna talk. Not sucker punch Spidey. I rather see from the POV of Civil War #5 than JMS ASM 535, who tends to wrote Iron Man as a mindless dictator robot.

This is how the issue goes as quote:
scene:Spiderman falls out the building. Saids ow.
Ironman stands over him.
Ironman:I trusted you Pete! I took you under my wings! This is how you repay me?
Spiderman:No....
He uppercuts IM.
Spiderman:..This is!
Spiderman leaps at a fallen IM.
Spiderman:And if you liked that, theres even more where that came--
Ironman cowardly activates the override in his suit.
More dialogue of Ironman gloating with how he had failsafes in the suit and all that. Spiderman overrides the failsafe, webs IMs head and punches him so hard his sensory apparatus is knocked offline. It has to reboot, but by the time it does Spideys gone.

Still a wuss. JMS has to follow Civil War #5 story, where Spidey escapes in the sewer. So still wuss.

So did he hit him or blast him unconscious? Make up your mind.

Hit him by repulsor. It connects huh?

You're confusing the word futurist with fortune teller. A futurist is just a person who prepares for several things that may happen. They can't predict them all or be right about all predictions.

Then don't call himself a Futurist if not prepared! I don't see Iron Man is prepared.

 

[Sloth7d]

A KO is a KO. The moral of the story is the only way Spidey can beat Iron Man is never to get hit by his repulsor. One hit of the repulsor could KO him. Repulsor connects, Spidey fall down.

If he's unguarded.

There are many heros and villains in the Marvel U that's stronger and durable than Spider-Man. A blast that won't hurt even Spidey - lame

No doubt. But I didn't say it didn't hurt him. I said it didn't ko him.

Iron Man make Spiderman out cold. Utter defeat. KO (Iron Man 14)
Spidey disable Iron Man sensor and ran like chicken - Inconclusive (ASM 536)

Looking at how vulnerable IM was before Spidey left, I'd say it was inconclusive but leaning towards Spiderman. He couldn't mess with his spidersense, and look what happened.

He just wanna talk. Not sucker punch Spidey. I rather see from the POV of Civil War #5 than JMS ASM 535, who tends to wrote Iron Man as a mindless dictator robot.

Yeah, because when people just want to talk they pre emtive spear you through a wall, like he did in Asm # 535 which came out before CW#5. CW#5 was more or so following ASM#535 in that reguarde.

Still a wuss. JMS has to follow Civil War #5 story, where Spidey escapes in the sewer. So still wuss.

Hows he a wuss. Why would he stay there to fight Ironman and an ongoing rampage of capekillers. No. Cowardice and stupidity are two different things.

Hit him by repulsor. It connects huh?

Actually your exact words were ***** slap.No, it doesn't connect.

Then don't call himself a Futurist if not prepared! I don't see Iron Man is prepared.

He is a futurist. He plans for eventual events by looking at whats happening now and where its leading. Then he prepares future plans to always be a step ahead of what he predicts. Its not fortune telling. Its just anotherway of being a maticulous planner. Though he's only human...er well slightly robotic human.

 

[chiefchirpa]

If he's unguarded.

Unguarded or not, if the repulsor connects Spidey goes down. Iron Man could be punched many times, but his armor grants greater durability.

No doubt. But I didn't say it didn't hurt him. I said it didn't ko him.

Well, many heros in the Marvel Universe can shrug off Sentinel's blast. Hulk, Thor, Sentry, Silver Surfer, and Iron Man with an energy shield.

Looking at how vulnerable IM was before Spidey left, I'd say it was inconclusive but leaning towards Spiderman. He couldn't mess with his spidersense, and look what happened.

Iron Man is vulnerable when Cap America give him the sticky shocker. But that doesn't mean that Iron Man would be down for the count. His armor has many tricks, like Batman's utility belt and maybe more

Hows he a wuss. Why would he stay there to fight Ironman and an ongoing rampage of capekillers. No. Cowardice and stupidity are two different things.

Spidey ought to fear Iron Man more than capekillers. Iron Man could take on capekillers by himself. Why not Spidey? Is it because Iron Man never intended to harm Spidey. Yeah, he talked with Spidey when his Iron Spider gets disabled, right?

Actually your exact words were ***** slap.No, it doesn't connect.

"***** slap" is a figure of speech. It means Iron Man handles Spidey easily.

Geez, you tend to take everything literally. First "Futurist" (has no meaning), now this.

He is a futurist. He plans for eventual events by looking at whats happening now and where its leading. Then he prepares future plans to always be a step ahead of what he predicts. Its not fortune telling. Its just anotherway of being a maticulous planner. Though he's only human...er well slightly robotic human.

I still don't see Iron Man as a Futurist. Marvel put that thing over Iron Man just to make Iron Man cool, but the fact says otherwise. Iron Man made too many stupid mistakes, it's impossible that he's a futurist. He's a genius but he never thought about protecting Captain America. Meticulous planner? Yeah right.

By the way or more exactly by coincidence - or not, there is a Spidey vs thread in Newsarama. There, some people talk about Wolverine kicking Spidey's ass. Hey, myself think Spidey could take on Wolverine most of time. But they have pages to back up. So I think the standards go even lower there.

 

[chiefchirpa]

BTW, I just so friggin hate JMS and his mischaracterization of Iron Man. In CW #5, Iron Man wants to talk with Peter and begs Maria Hill to call of the Thunderbolts. But in ASM #535 Iron Man acts like he wants to cripple Peter for good.

I can't wait for JMS to get away from ASM.

 

[Sloth7d]

Unguarded or not, if the repulsor connects Spidey goes down.

By your logic if I'm sucker punched unconscious while at a bar, I would still be knocked unconscious even if I was ready for the hit another time.
But that logic would be untrue.

Ironman could be punched many times, but his armor grants greater durability.

The same durability it had when a mere peak human(Captain America) broke through his helmet with a few shield hits. Given his systems were offline, but the armor itself still gave way.

Well, many heros in the Marvel Universe can shrug off Sentinel's blast. Hulk, Thor, Sentry, Silver Surfer, and Iron Man with an energy shield.

No arguments here.

Iron Man is vulnerable when Cap America give him the sticky shocker. But that doesn't mean that Iron Man would be down for the count. His armor has many tricks, like Batman's utility belt and maybe more

Uh, didn't Cap almost kill him CW#7 when his armor was shut down by Vision? Sure his armor has tricks, but they can't be used if its dissabled.
Just like New Avengers#25 aswell. He had to rely on others when his armor was dissabled.

Spidey ought to fear Iron Man more than capekillers. Iron Man could take on capekillers by himself.

I wouldn't speak so fast on that. Those capekillers managed to capture the young Avengers and almost take down Sue Richards and Human torch.

Why not Spidey? Is it because Iron Man never intended to harm Spidey.

Sure thats why he crashed him through a wall before even saying a word. Blasted at him, and used the fail safe on him.

Yeah, he talked with Spidey when his Iron Spider gets disabled, right?

Thats because he didn't think Spiderman could do anything else. He DID use the fail safe. And it wasn't talking more like venting. If you just punched out someone you felt betrayed you you might do the same, right?

"***** slap" is a figure of speech. It means Iron Man handles Spidey easily.

If that was your intention. I never heard anyone use *****slap unless they were talking about physical contact with the hands.

Geez, you tend to take everything literally. First "Futurist" (has no meaning), now this.

I was only trying to inform you that its a real word, and you're confusing its meaning.

I still don't see Iron Man as a Futurist. Marvel put that thing over Iron Man just to make Iron Man cool, but the fact says otherwise. Iron Man made too many stupid mistakes, it's impossible that he's a futurist. He's a genius but he never thought about protecting Captain America. Meticulous planner? Yeah right.

Well, I think he just stopped caring about Steve at that point. So far every issue that brings up the subject shows Tony having no love for "Steve" as he now calls him.
But look at everything else. For starters he predicted CW would happen and chose the winning side.

I think of Ironman as the slightly more businessman version of Batman.

By the way or more exactly by coincidence - or not, there is a Spidey vs thread in Newsarama. There, some people talk about Wolverine kicking Spidey's ass. Hey, myself think Spidey could take on Wolverine most of time. But they have pages to back up. So I think the standards go even lower there.

Unfortunately, I doubt there will ever be a written fight where Spiderman beats Wolverine. And with the way Wolverine is written sometimes, he can go one on one with the Hulk and do better than Ironman did against Namor in on of his armors, even though that makes no sense.

 

[Sloth7d]

BTW, I just so friggin hate JMS and his mischaracterization of Iron Man. In CW #5, Iron Man wants to talk with Peter and begs Maria Hill to call of the Thunderbolts. But in ASM #535 Iron Man acts like he wants to cripple Peter for good.

I can't wait for JMS to get away from ASM.

I agree with you here, but I'm sure ASM came out before CW#5.

 

[chiefchirpa]

By your logic if I'm sucker punched unconscious while at a bar, I would still be knocked unconscious even if I was ready for the hit another time.
But that logic would be untrue.

Spidey is not sucker punched as he attacked Iron Man first. He's not thinking fast enough of the fact that Iron Man is playing with his Sense. Spidey still has his eyesight to verify Iron Man's position but he chooses to rely on his Spider Sense.

The same durability it had when a mere peak human(Captain America) broke through his helmet with a few shield hits. Given his systems were offline, but the armor itself still gave way.

That shield is made of one of the strongest Vibranium. If Spider-Man with a more or less cloth armor gets hit like that, he'd be dead.

Uh, didn't Cap almost kill him CW#7 when his armor was shut down by Vision? Sure his armor has tricks, but they can't be used if its dissabled.
Just like New Avengers#25 aswell. He had to rely on others when his armor was dissabled.

Yes, way too many similar plot devices to cripple the "Invincible" Iron Man. Again, this is my case against Tony Stark the futurist. His armor gets crippled many times, but he never learns. He couldn't even learn the past, how can he fathom the future?

Conclusion: Futurist has no meaning at all.

I wouldn't speak so fast on that. Those capekillers managed to capture the young Avengers and almost take down Sue Richards and Human torch.

For Spidey, maybe. Iron Man is expert on conventional weaponries and have backup to boot in the form of his Iron Legions.

Thats because he didn't think Spiderman could do anything else. He DID use the fail safe. And it wasn't talking more like venting. If you just punched out someone you felt betrayed you you might do the same, right?

No, I would Repulsor Spidey until cold first, then talk. Especially if I'm the big Futurist.

If that was your intention. I never heard anyone use *****slap unless they were talking about physical contact with the hands.

I was only trying to inform you that its a real word, and you're confusing its meaning.

Well, ok. Let's leave it at that.

I think of Ironman as the slightly more businessman version of Batman.

I think it's more of an elaborate, evolved of Batman. Iron Man builds an explainable means to get on equal footing with Superbeings. Batman relies on writers plot device and the vaunted "prep time".

Hey, Marvel wants to put "futurist" with Iron Man. An all-new alternative to "prep time" *snicker*

Unfortunately, I doubt there will ever be a written fight where Spiderman beats Wolverine. And with the way Wolverine is written sometimes, he can go one on one with the Hulk and do better than Ironman did against Namor in on of his armors, even though that makes no sense.

Spidey can defeat Wolvie. Spidey's more popular now and they're more or less equal.
No one can beat the Hulk. Except psychic and magical superbeings.
Iron Man is not the Black Panther who can defeat Namor handily. Most often writers don't respect him until recently.

BTW, Sloth7d I'm ending my discussion. Good bantering with you and I hope this won't come to perplex the OP much longer.

 

[Sloth7d]

Well, if you want to leave it as an agree to disagree. I'm fine with that. But I stand behind my points.

 

[Sloth7d]

But I do want to say before we stop that the density of the metal does not determine the strenth of the attacker. Which is why Wolverine being able to pierce Hulks skin is still a mystery to me.