Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 3

[Doctor Jones]

Generations missed the boat in a number of ways. Focusing mainly on Picard was a mistake and they passed on the obvious opportunity of having both era ships on screen at the same time (just do away with that 'Nexus' rubbish and come up with some time twister story to have them together).

And Kirk's death was terrible. Kirk doesn't go out falling from a bridge for the sake of some no mark planet...He should go out leading his ship into a major battle to save the galaxy (they gave that fate to one of the old Klingons they brought back from the old series to DS9).

Only good TNG film was First Contact. Insurrection was like another extended TV episode, and Nemesis was mostly naff.

Kirk's death was

His last words were, "..oh my."

 

[Octoberist]

No I'm with you. Star Trek was leagues better than Sherlock Holmes, in context.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

My defense of Trek was never rabid despite what some might think when others were calling it perfect I always pointed out the deep flaws in the film and I never gave it a 10 out of 10 on any scale. If I thought the film was perfect I'd say so but I don't. I gave it a very good score of an 8.5 but that's only because I like to round my movie scores. There is much room for improvement with the sequel. Trek is a movie I really, really enjoy but don't quite love do to that script. Emotionally I love it and think it's great but I'm a smart film watcher so I gave it the score it deserves.

I've never liked Sherlock Holmes and I dislike it even more after watching Sherlock. It's just a hopelessly annoying movie to me and when someone brought it up as being better than Trek I had to say something.

 

[Hypestyle]

will the enterprise crew get to wear outfits besides the typical red, yellow and blue outfits?
They should mix it up this time; put the crew on different kinds of planets/moons: swamp, volcanic, arctic, desert/mountainous, etc.

have some different styles of weapons used- both phasers and melee combat weapons..

 

[Warhammer]

Kirk's death was

His last words were, "..oh my."

I laugh every time I see it. He might as well have said "goddamn."

 

[wobbly]

And to top it all Picard just buries him there on that no mark planet. Methinks the Federation would have wanted to make a bigger deal out of one their greatest heroes death, rather than settle for his stiff getting a few rocks shoved on it by some bald dude* who only wanted Kirk to take care of the fisticuffs he couldn't handle.

*I actually like Picard's character, or came to after the first dismal 2 seasons of TNG (they were pretty awful), but that ending to Generations had me p#ssed me off with him no end.

 

[Victarion]

I'd like John de Lancie to reprise his role as Q in the next film. How would you feel about Q in this series?

 

[Doc Ock]

I like all the Trek films, even Nemesis....I've always enjoyed the Search for Spock alot for some reason.

 

[TheVileOne]

Sherlock Holmes was good and so was Star Trek.

21 Jump Street and Channing Tatum and his mumbling act on the other hand was terrible.

 

[roach]

And to top it all Picard just buries him there on that no mark planet. Methinks the Federation would have wanted to make a bigger deal out of one their greatest heroes death, rather than settle for his stiff getting a few rocks shoved on it by some bald dude* who only wanted Kirk to take care of the fisticuffs he couldn't handle.

*I actually like Picard's character, or came to after the first dismal 2 seasons of TNG (they were pretty awful), but that ending to Generations had me p#ssed me off with him no end.

The Federation already thought he was dead.

 

[Silvermoon]

And to top it all Picard just buries him there on that no mark planet. Methinks the Federation would have wanted to make a bigger deal out of one their greatest heroes death, rather than settle for his stiff getting a few rocks shoved on it by some bald dude* who only wanted Kirk to take care of the fisticuffs he couldn't handle.

*I actually like Picard's character, or came to after the first dismal 2 seasons of TNG (they were pretty awful), but that ending to Generations had me p#ssed me off with him no end.

*I fully acknowledge it's been awhile since I've watched Generations... so I can't remember if a shuttle is shown approaching* Anywho... I always liked to think that the cairn Picard gave him was just temporary to protect his body from the elements until the Federation could retrieve it (since Picard may not have known exactly how long he would be stranded there) afterwhich he would then receive a proper burial befitting of such a Captain.

Just my opinion, though.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Kirk's death in the original cut of Generations was originally even lamer than what we got. [blackout]He got shot in the back by Malcolm McDowell's character.[/blackout]

 

[Cagefighterkip]

Kirk's death in the original cut of Generations was originally even lamer than what we got. [blackout]He got shot in the back by Malcolm McDowell's character.[/blackout]

Woooow. That's awful sounding, and this comes from someone who doesn't entirely dislike GENERATIONS.

 

[The Squirrel]

Yeah, that's how it happens in the book as well.

 

[Octoberist]

Kirk's death was

His last words were, "..oh my."

The irony considering Shatner's real life relationship with Takai. Oh..oh...MYyyyyyy!

 

[wobbly]

The Federation already thought he was dead.

Which in no way at all justifies Picard lobbing rocks on his corpse and leaving it at that. Seriously, it's "Well...they all thought he was dead anyway, so it doesn't matter if I just leave his stiff here, which is all my fault as I could have left him to live a happy fantasy forever in the Nexus and gone back earlier to stop Soran when he arrived on my ship in the first place, but as I'm not smart enough to do that and I'm crap at fighting so Soran kicked the crap out of me I needed someone who can fight to take care of him and now I can take all the credit to boot!!".

I say that last bit as even in his epilogue with Ryker on the wrecked bridge he makes no mention of Kirk at all. Nice one Jean Luc...

But then TNG deliberately avoided paying much respect to the TOS era early on (one of the reasons I didn't care much for it then), only showing more in later seasons (With the Spock & Scotty episodes).

The DS9 episode (when they went back to the TOS era Tribbles episode) handled how the later era should regard the earlier one, imo. Sisko looked like a kid on Christmas morning when he got to speak to Kirk (and that's how it should be dammit )

*I fully acknowledge it's been awhile since I've watched Generations... so I can't remember if a shuttle is shown approaching* Anywho... I always liked to think that the cairn Picard gave him was just temporary to protect his body from the elements until the Federation could retrieve it (since Picard may not have known exactly how long he would be stranded there) afterwhich he would then receive a proper burial befitting of such a Captain.

Just my opinion, though.

The showed a shuttle flying down as Picard was finishing lobbing rocks on Kirk's corpse. Anything beyond that is assumption not backed up by anything shown or said on screen (Picard had no idea the Enterprise had even been downed so he had no reason to assume he would be left stuck there for any great length of time).

I think Shatner wrote a novel later on (to bring Kirk back) where the Borg retrieve his corpse from that planet.

 

[Dave McFly]

yes, he did, actually a series of books the fist one was called Ashes to Eden that takes place between end of Undiscovered Country and before Generations (the 23rd century bits), the one where he came back to life in the future was The Return, they are quite good kind of a alt universe where he is alive and well in the 24th century.

 

[C. Lee]

But then TNG deliberately avoided paying much respect to the TOS era early on (one of the reasons I didn't care much for it then), only showing more in later seasons (With the Spock & Scotty episodes).

When TNG started, most of the original actors felt threatened by the show, and either made bad remarks about it or ignored it until it had several years under it's belt and was considered a hit (then you had entire episodes written around Scotty, Sarek, and Spock). DeForest Kelley did appear in a cameo in the premier episode ENCOUNTER AT FAR POINT as an aged Admiral McCoy.

 

[roach]

When TNG started, most of the original actors felt threatened by the show, and either made bad remarks about it or ignored it until it had several years under it's belt and was considered a hit (then you had entire episodes written around Scotty, Sarek, and Spock). DeForest Kelley did appear in a cameo in the premier episode ENCOUNTER AT FAR POINT as an aged Admiral McCoy.

you also have to realize several of the first season episodes are reworked or re imagined TOS episodes.

 

[roach]

Which in no way at all justifies Picard lobbing rocks on his corpse and leaving it at that. Seriously, it's "Well...they all thought he was dead anyway, so it doesn't matter if I just leave his stiff here, which is all my fault as I could have left him to live a happy fantasy forever in the Nexus and gone back earlier to stop Soran when he arrived on my ship in the first place, but as I'm not smart enough to do that and I'm crap at fighting so Soran kicked the crap out of me I needed someone who can fight to take care of him and now I can take all the credit to boot!!".

I say that last bit as even in his epilogue with Ryker on the wrecked bridge he makes no mention of Kirk at all. Nice one Jean Luc...

But then TNG deliberately avoided paying much respect to the TOS era early on (one of the reasons I didn't care much for it then), only showing more in later seasons (With the Spock & Scotty episodes).

The DS9 episode (when they went back to the TOS era Tribbles episode) handled how the later era should regard the earlier one, imo. Sisko looked like a kid on Christmas morning when he got to speak to Kirk (and that's how it should be dammit )



The showed a shuttle flying down as Picard was finishing lobbing rocks on Kirk's corpse. Anything beyond that is assumption not backed up by anything shown or said on screen (Picard had no idea the Enterprise had even been downed so he had no reason to assume he would be left stuck there for any great length of time).

I think Shatner wrote a novel later on (to bring Kirk back) where the Borg retrieve his corpse from that planet.

Imagine if tomorrow someone said 'Hey MLK or JFK didnt die when we thought they did. They helped me stop a terrorist plot and died yesterday. The storm of crap would be insurmountable.

 

[C. Lee]

you also have to realize several of the first season episodes are reworked or re imagined TOS episodes.

Yep....I've mentioned in the past, I liked the 1st season episode THE NAKED NOW (others complained about it because it was similar to TOS episode THE NAKED TIME) because instead of just being a reworking, it actually had them reference Kirk and the previous Enterprise by checking the history records and used that info to find a cure.

 

[wobbly]

Imagine if tomorrow someone said 'Hey MLK or JFK didnt die when we thought they did. They helped me stop a terrorist plot and died yesterday. The storm of crap would be insurmountable.

Entirely different and a poor comparison. Both MLK and JFK were publicly assassinated, and both bodies were dealt with on their deaths. If it were revealed now that they had somehow lived the conspiracy nuts would have a field day (not to mention that without a nexus to keep them from ageing they'd both be very old now)

Kirk's body was never found after the Enterprise B's encounter with the Nexus, so he was more MIA and presumed dead, than known for sure to be dead.

 

[chamber-music]

Malcolm McDowell has said he still gets hate mail for killing Kirk lol.

TNG movie with the Borg Queen is the only one TNG movie I like.

 

[wobbly]

When TNG started, most of the original actors felt threatened by the show, and either made bad remarks about it or ignored it until it had several years under it's belt and was considered a hit (then you had entire episodes written around Scotty, Sarek, and Spock). DeForest Kelley did appear in a cameo in the premier episode ENCOUNTER AT FAR POINT as an aged Admiral McCoy.

I read aways back that it was deliberate decision from the producer/writers to play the TOS era down early on, so as to help TNG step out of it's shadow.

Even in the 'Naked Now' episode, though they referenced the 'Naked Time', it was just something that happened to another crew. There was no recognition that crew was anything special at all (they didn't even mention Kirks name iirc?...Not sure if they ever did ever during the entire series run, not even in the Spock 2 parter, though I stand to be corrected on that one).

Both DS9 and Voyager openly mentioned Kirk and his era with the respect they deserved.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Sherlock Holmes was good and so was Star Trek.

21 Jump Street and Channing Tatum and his mumbling act on the other hand was terrible.

No one was comparing the movie and you for some random reason decided to bring up 21 Jump Street when no one was even talking about it, and it has no relevance in the discussion.