Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

[GremlinZilla89]

Is Simon Pegg really surprise that people that have actually seen and enjoy the Wrath of Kahn dislike a movie whose climax relies on aping the climax of that film beat for beat but without the context that made it work? Really? He's shocked by this? I mean, it is certainly silly to call it the worst, the lack of effort that went into the effects in Star Trek 5 as well as the general shoddiness of that film easily makes it the worst but that doesn't change the fact that STID is pretty damn mediorcre in several respects. I agree with him that a lot of effort from very talented people went into the newest film, which only exacerbates my disappointment with the entire second of half of the movie. The 3rd act in particular is very similar to a gag from Pegg's own Spaced, which often played on the beats of other movies and shows as source of humor, except in this case it was self parody and I was literally laughing by the time of Spock's outburst.

Also, Star Trek fans don't like when Star Trek is popular? Really? TNG was the highest rated syndicated show for years, during its first run and after.

Actually, I bet he's more shocked people completely missed the context of the reversed situation. Instead of blindly *****ing that the film "apes" the end of Wrath. Scenes are very much the same, the context and meaning is completely different.

 

[redhawk23]

The role reversal simply exacerbates the problems in recycling the earlier film's ending as trying to map the actions of the earlier iterations of Spock and Kirk onto Kirk and Spock simply doesn't jive. It makes what is supposed to be an emotional moment unintentionally humorous. Not to mention none of the actions hold any weight within the film as any negative repercussions are swept under the rug in about 9 minutes. It is true that Spock was eventually brought back from the dead, but that took place outside of the context of Wrath of Kahn, not to mention it required an entire story of further sacrifice to do so.

Even with the reversal they are still trading on the cultural cache of the earlier film and its famous moments.

I'm not blindly *****ing. I've made my thoughts on these scene well known and in detail in these threads before. I can drudge them up if you like.

I'm certainly not of the opinion that it is the worst Trek film though, not by a country mile. It has its moments, I just don't think much of the endgame.

 

[redhawk23]

For the record though I actually thought a lot of the plot with General Robocop (Marcus, isn't it?) worked as an interesting allegory much in the same way as Star Trek VI addressed the end of the Cold War.

 

[redhawk23]

Eh, everybody knew hardcore trekkies weren't going to like the new movies, but JJ & Co went well out of their way to not step on their toes and preserve their precious continuity.

And yet they're still *****ing about it. It's not even complaining about change. It's "I don't like this thing that you like because it's different from what what I like". Ugh. UGH!

Actually in that poll Star Trek 09 ranked pretty high.

 

[Ramsay Snow]

Just watched this for the first time on Bluray. An awesome near-perfect (for me) adventure with the SS Enterprise crew, and it felt so eerie! Fantastic and a great sequel to the first film. The main crew were great and so was the villain. Loved all the scenes and loved all the characters. What an adventure. I love this director.

It's a shame that he's not gonna direct the next one - hope the next person who directs keeps the same tone and make things just as awesome, if not better.

 

[Picard Sisko]

For the record though I actually thought a lot of the plot with General Robocop (Marcus, isn't it?) worked as an interesting allegory much in the same way as Star Trek VI addressed the end of the Cold War.

Agreed.

Actually in that poll Star Trek 09 ranked pretty high.

I think STID was treated so harshly because it involved Khan, and had way more action than the '09 film

 

[MrMaooz]

STID had a ton of action. Cool and it drove the story and made sense.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Once again: J.J. had brass ones to go down the "reverse Wrath of Kahn" route, and I think it paid off. Are there things "I" would have done different? Sure. But I still ended up leaving the theatre with a smile. And that's not coming from someone just getting into Trek. I was born in '76 and watched it through every incarnation.

 

[redhawk23]

Yeah retreading the most popular movie is so edgy yo.

Making a Kahn film was about the most uninspired choice they could make.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Yeah retreading the most popular movie is so edgy yo.

Making a Kahn film was about the most uninspired choice they could make.

Does not change the fact that I left the theatre with a smile. Yo.

 

[GremlinZilla89]

Yeah retreading the most popular movie is so edgy yo.

Making a Kahn film was about the most uninspired choice they could make.

It was still an awesome movie. Yo.

So...

 

[Picard Sisko]

Yeah retreading the most popular movie is so edgy yo.

Making a Kahn film was about the most uninspired choice they could make.

I think the bigger question would be... why NOT use Khan again? He is the greatest Star Trek villain, and it would be a shame not to bring him back and introduce him to the alternate timeline. Now imagine the possibilities for future Star Trek films. We could have a Klingon war coming up in ST3, and he could be involved somehow.

 

[redhawk23]

Because Star Trek isn't a franchise particularly defined by its villains the way a franchise like Batman is. And its not like it did them any good marketing wise.

Kahn is just so 'meh' at this point. I mean to even sell him as menacing they literally had to bring in a character from the old franchise to come on screen and tell the audience that he's menacing. Ugh.

 

[redhawk23]

Unused Klingon Designs from Into Darkness

The third one down would probably look good with hair.

 

[danoyse]

Does not change the fact that I left the theatre with a smile. Yo.

And that I actually teared up a little during that scene. Damn you, Zachary Quinto.

I saw Wrath of Khan in the theater when it first came out, I've seen it a million times since, and it's one of my favorite Star Trek films. So don't even try the "IT WAS THE SAME SCENE!!" battle cry with me.

It's not. It's just not.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

And that I actually teared up a little during that scene. Damn you, Zachary Quinto.

I saw Wrath of Khan in the theater when it first came out, I've seen it a million times since, and it's one of my favorite Star Trek films. So don't even try the "IT WAS THE SAME SCENE!!" battle cry with me.

It's not. It's just not.

I am right there with you. I don't think that STID hits the heights that it's aiming for, but it gets damned close.

 

[batfreakforever]

Star trek 2 the wrath of kahn has to be one of the most boring Star Trek movies ever. I just cannot see what makes frans love this movie. Star Trek into Darkness wipes the floor with it.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Star trek 2 the wrath of kahn has to be one of the most boring Star Trek movies ever. I just cannot see what makes frans love this movie. Star Trek into Darkness wipes the floor with it.

It happens to be beloved for reasons that are obvious to all. It's about aging, friendship, sacrifice, revenge, loss... It runs the gamut. Plus it has one of the best space battles ever put on film. It redefined the world of Trek for many years and it arguably saved the franchise when the first film was so lukewarmly received. It also is perhaps the best written that those characters have ever been. It is a film filled with quotable lines. I could go on but the thread is about STID. We shall see if this film will garner the following WOK has.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Star trek 2 the wrath of kahn has to be one of the most boring Star Trek movies ever. I just cannot see what makes frans love this movie. Star Trek into Darkness wipes the floor with it.

You must have a really short attention span.

It happens to be beloved for reasons that are obvious to all. It's about aging, friendship, sacrifice, revenge, loss... It runs the gamut. Plus it has one of the best space battles ever put on film. It redefined the world of Trek for many years and it arguably saved the franchise when the first film was so lukewarmly received. It also is perhaps the best written that those characters have ever been. It is a film filled with quotable lines. I could go on but the thread is about STID. We shall see if this film will garner the following WOK has.

This. All of this.

Because Star Trek isn't a franchise particularly defined by its villains the way a franchise like Batman is. And its not like it did them any good marketing wise.

Kahn is just so 'meh' at this point. I mean to even sell him as menacing they literally had to bring in a character from the old franchise to come on screen and tell the audience that he's menacing. Ugh.

Why was Khan 'meh?' Star Trek isn't defined by its villains, but Khan is an exception. Its not as if they went out of their way to bring Gul Dukat or Kruge back. The TV series were more about exploration and depicting a better future on Earth, while the films were generally more action oriented. So once again... why not bring Khan, the greatest Star Trek villain, back into this timeline?

 

[Silvermoon]

Came across this blog that, for people like me trying to figure out store exclusives... particularly what's on the Target bonus disc vs. the Best Buy bonus material.... gives a run down of the different featurettes from each store. They also do a review/explination of the "on itunes only" audio commentary.

I think I'm going with the Target exclusive namely because I...er.... saw the BB stuff online elsewhere (but damn, I have to say I hate the store exclusive stuff in general just because I like special features, but I don't want to have to feel compelled to buy 3-4 copies of a movie just to see all the special features available. What happened to the simple days, huh?)

TrekCore: “Into Darkness” Exclusives, Part I: Video VAM

TrekCore: “Into Darkness” Exclusives, Part II: iTunes Extras Enhanced Commentary

 

[hunteri]

For me Star Trek Into Darkness was a very well made movie. The action was great and the story beats moved the story forward. As a movie its a solid 7/10 as a trek movie its 3/10.

My problems where

1. Women characters where completely wasted (This is actually a problem with most Hollywood movies in the pasts few years. No strong female characters). They are either just eye candy or someones love interest (who is constantly bickering..we need more characters like Ellen Ripley)

2. Rehash of old scenes (Joss Whedon said it the best in this article
"A movie has to be complete within itself; it can't just build off the first one or play variations. You know that thing in Temple of Doom where they revisit the shooting trick? ... That's what you don't want. And I feel that's what all of culture is becoming -- it's becoming that moment."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-ryan/joss-whedon-avengers-age-of-ultron_b_3824193.html)

3. The plot devices that just don't feel right. Like "magical blood", that has no explanation of how and why (the blood works on tribbles too, why is he even testing on a dead tribble. ) it just felt like they added this is so they could have the climax at the end and then say it all right we have this Magical Blood to solve all our problems. The Torpedoes was another one . number of torpedoes vs the number of Khan's crew. no one noticed the coincidence?

I think for everybody who didn't like the movie, we need to stop supporting them. So don't buy the blu ray or watch the next one. We as fans did that with the TNG movies and the tv show Enterprise. Basically indicating that you are making crap and need to fix it.

The best part of Trek is how they intertwine space adventure with a social statement (philosophical or political). This movie is nether. If I want action and awesome popcorn movies, that's what I expect from Avengers and Man of Steel....not Star Trek.

 

[MrMaooz]

Well, I don't care. I love these "popcorn" Trek flicks.

 

[random_havoc]

I could tell by the first part of the movie that no decent thought had been put into STID. Explain this to me: Why was the Enterprise in the water? If your answer is anything other than some idiot wanted to show a scene he thought would look cool despite no rational reason for it to happen, you're wrong.

Was it to hide the ship from local inhabitants? Guess what, THAT'S WHAT STAYING IN ORBIT IS FOR!
And if they really needed to enter the atmosphere, THAT'S WHAT SHUTTLES ARE FOR!

Idiots. I could go on ad nauseum but that's all I should have to say. Making starships irrelevant with super transporting and death meaningless via superblood (which they now have a whole crew's worth of) is just icing on the cake.

It's not a Star Trek movie. It's thoughtless dribble.

If you could enjoy it for the sake of the flashy lights and special effects, good for you. Just please don't argue it's actually a quality movie. It's mindlessness incarnate.

 

[Alex_Spider]

For me Star Trek Into Darkness was a very well made movie. The action was great and the story beats moved the story forward. As a movie its a solid 7/10 as a trek movie its 3/10.

My problems where

1. Women characters where completely wasted (This is actually a problem with most Hollywood movies in the pasts few years. No strong female characters). They are either just eye candy or someones love interest (who is constantly bickering..we need more characters like Ellen Ripley)

2. Rehash of old scenes (Joss Whedon said it the best in this article
"A movie has to be complete within itself; it can't just build off the first one or play variations. You know that thing in Temple of Doom where they revisit the shooting trick? ... That's what you don't want. And I feel that's what all of culture is becoming -- it's becoming that moment."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-ryan/joss-whedon-avengers-age-of-ultron_b_3824193.html)

3. The plot devices that just don't feel right. Like "magical blood", that has no explanation of how and why (the blood works on tribbles too, why is he even testing on a dead tribble. ) it just felt like they added this is so they could have the climax at the end and then say it all right we have this Magical Blood to solve all our problems. The Torpedoes was another one . number of torpedoes vs the number of Khan's crew. no one noticed the coincidence?

I think for everybody who didn't like the movie, we need to stop supporting them. So don't buy the blu ray or watch the next one. We as fans did that with the TNG movies and the tv show Enterprise. Basically indicating that you are making crap and need to fix it.

The best part of Trek is how they intertwine space adventure with a social statement (philosophical or political). This movie is nether. If I want action and awesome popcorn movies, that's what I expect from Avengers and Man of Steel....not Star Trek.

Thank you sir.

 

[GremlinZilla89]

For me Star Trek Into Darkness was a very well made movie. The action was great and the story beats moved the story forward. As a movie its a solid 7/10 as a trek movie its 3/10.

My problems where

1. Women characters where completely wasted (This is actually a problem with most Hollywood movies in the pasts few years. No strong female characters). They are either just eye candy or someones love interest (who is constantly bickering..we need more characters like Ellen Ripley)

2. Rehash of old scenes (Joss Whedon said it the best in this article
"A movie has to be complete within itself; it can't just build off the first one or play variations. You know that thing in Temple of Doom where they revisit the shooting trick? ... That's what you don't want. And I feel that's what all of culture is becoming -- it's becoming that moment."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-ryan/joss-whedon-avengers-age-of-ultron_b_3824193.html)

3. The plot devices that just don't feel right. Like "magical blood", that has no explanation of how and why (the blood works on tribbles too, why is he even testing on a dead tribble. ) it just felt like they added this is so they could have the climax at the end and then say it all right we have this Magical Blood to solve all our problems. The Torpedoes was another one . number of torpedoes vs the number of Khan's crew. no one noticed the coincidence?

I think for everybody who didn't like the movie, we need to stop supporting them. So don't buy the blu ray or watch the next one. We as fans did that with the TNG movies and the tv show Enterprise. Basically indicating that you are making crap and need to fix it.

The best part of Trek is how they intertwine space adventure with a social statement (philosophical or political). This movie is nether. If I want action and awesome popcorn movies, that's what I expect from Avengers and Man of Steel....not Star Trek.

Um, yes it is. I love it when people conveniently ignore the fact TOS was an action/adventure.