Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

[chamber-music]

Khan is like Alexander the Great or Genghis Khan with genius intellect and superpowers it doesn't seem like a stretch to see why Admiral Marcus would want someone like that. He is supposed to be a tactical genius.

 

[wobbly]

Khan is like Alexander the Great or Genghis Khan with genius intellect and superpowers it doesn't seem like a stretch to see why Admiral Marcus would want someone like that. He is supposed to be a tactical genius.

But "his pattern indicates...2 dimensional thinking..."

Just kidding. In WOK he was able to master a Starship's controls in no time, but as Spock noted he was inexperienced at space battle, so Kirk did did the down & up manoeuvre to get behind the Reliant and blow the crap out of it.

For Into Darkness Khan has been thawed out long enough for the Vengeance to have been built, held to ransom over his crew, so it's not hard to beleive he could master modern Trek tech and think of devastating usages for it that Starfleet's engineers couldn't (or would refuse to, ala Scotty's reaction to the unknown Torpedoes).

Khan's weakness though (in both films) was his over-confidence. In thinking he has put his opponent in an impossible position he leaves himself open to being hoodwinked. Kirk used the transmission Khan wanted on the Genesis device to send an over-ride code to get the Reliant's shield's to drop for example, and Spock had his crew removed from the torpedoes before transporting them (and then blowing them up). Both times Khan winning position is undone by a self inflicted trojan horse.

 

[terry78]

Basically with these types of villains their downfall is always hubris.

 

[georgec]

http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-star-trek-into-darkness/

 

[georgec]

Jay makes a good point that the script feels like it put together in a "connect the dots" fashion with certain set pieces, TWOK references, etc.

 

[Hyde]

No one's commented on this? http://www.unleashthefanboy.com/mov...be-directing-star-trek-3-so-who-will-be/56233

I think Cornish is a solid choice but the source is questionable. Thoughts?

 

[GreenKToo]

On my way to see it for the first time. I havent been on these forums and have read very little info about it. I'm pretty much going in spoiler free. wish me luck...

 

[Iceman]

I just got back from seeing it for the 1st time in IMAX. Loved it! The whole team is great again and BC is a great villain. It's a shame that he's not in this or future films more as 1 film doesn't seem enough for someone that good. The Kirk Spock relationship is developing well and their history being rewritten. Hope they can keep this team together for a long time. I'll keep watching and buying.

 

[roach]

http://www.startrek.com/article/exclusive-orci-opens-up-about-star-trek-into-darkness-part-2

 

[warhorse78]

I'm going to go see this for a third tonight. I really loved the movie. Favorite movie of the year by far.

 

[gohei_]

Saw it earlier today and I was enjoying myself throughout the whole movie, but I sadly missed maybe the first 10 minutes of it.
Did not know that Peter Weller was in this, so that was a pleasant surprise.

 

[GreenKToo]

ok..thoughts..Not as good as the first but still very good.

Spoiler

why they didnt promote that khan was the villain i'll never know?

It sure couldnt have hurt.

I thought there was a Little too much humor at times. not over the top tho.

Loved the performance by cumberbatch and pine.

Really liked the space battle and the klingons, tho they looked slightly different.

I dont really care for how they are changing spock..it feels like its too much.

overall, 7.5/10.

 

[RockSP]

Really liked the space battle and the klingons, tho they looked slightly different.

Different than the old movies/shows, you mean? Surely that can't be a surprise.

 

[Brother Jack]

I actually quite enjoyed this movie despite how dumb the writing was with the huge amount of fan service. What saved it for me was the immensely talented cast, where almost everyone is great in their roles, and the visuals and action beats. It's certainly inferior to the first film but if there is another one I think there is a lot of potential to make a really good sci-fi/action flick.

 

[scifiwolf]

Finally saw this last night. Loved it more than I thought I would. Cumberbatch really owned the role. Not better or worse than Montalban, but equally apt for playing it in his own way. The rest of the cast was great. I know that people are crediting Cumberbatch with stealing the show, but I think it needs to be the case. Khan should overshadow the rest of the individuals in the story, as that is the nature of who and what he is. That, however, shouldn't count as any kind of mark against the other cast members. They all had their time to shine and were flawless when those times came.

Yeah, the script has a lot of fan service, and a certain connect-the-dots feel. Who the hell cares when it does a good job at it? I liked the reworking of Space Seed/Wrath of Khan. The flip on Spock's death scene was enexpected and more moving than I could have hoped for. Although, no one can scream "KHANNNNN!!!!!!!" Like the Shat.

I can go on and on, but I'd rather make up for missed time in this forum and get back into conversation.

9/10

 

[Infinity9999x]

http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-star-trek-into-darkness/

I realize that all their points were valid, (well most of them) but you know what? I just didn't care. I think as Happy Jack said, the actors are all so damn good that it didn't matter. Scifiwolf also said it well, yeah, the script may have a lot of fan service and a "connect the dots" feel, but it does it pretty damn well, and it was a hell of a ride. I enjoyed it more then the first movie to be honest.

 

[Binker]

I saw it last night: I thought it was entertaining, and a good film overall, but its has its faults, and other things to point out.

- I thought it was unnecessary to demote Kirk to First Officer for 20 minutes of the film just to promote him back to Captain for its second act. Maybe this is a nitpick, but if they just had him stay as Captain, but still be in trouble and say that there will be a hearing to decide if Kirk's reasoning and defending of his actions determine if he will stay as Captain or be demoted, that of course doesn't happen once the attacks happen, then that woul've been better and made sense. What I said is what a military would do, and that's what Starfleet is.

- Maybe a nitpick too, but if what I said above didn't happen, then at least have Marcus be the one who demotes Kirk and not Pike, but leave the rest of Pike's scenes intact.

- Klingons better be the villains for Trek 3. They say they are, but I want a full blown, epic, Federation/Klingon war in the next film. MAKE IT HAPPEN!

- Did anyone realize that by having Spock call Spock Prime, he was using a cheat code in the movie?! lol

- I didn't have a problem with Khan, and I actually liked how it might've been a different Khan that was sympathetic, until the reveal at the end. Plus, if this wasn't Khan, he would've been seen by us as Khan-esque.

- The Wrath of Khan copied scenes: now I will say on one hand, maybe there wasn't any other way going around copying scenes to get from Point B to C; but, on the other hand, they could've kept the tension and suspense if they've changed some things. When Kirk is in the reactor, they should've had the inside be extremely dangerous than how it was, such as having Kirk at risk of being burned alive from the extreme heat and showing Kirk with burnt and radated marks on his face. The other was switching the two scenes that I felt was out of order; after Kirk "dies", and Spock is sadden, it should've been the Vengeance falling from the sky, then Spock screaming "KHAN!" then how it was the other way around.

- Maybe the whole reveal that Khan's blood can be used to bring someone back could've been less obvious.

- Because Carol and Kirk had a relationship in the prime universe, maybe there should've been something hinted, or maybe have those two hooked up by the end, instead of the question mark we have for them in Trek 3.

Overall though, the movie was still good and entertaining, despite the faults and how I think they should've been. I hope there is a big epic, Federation/Klingon war, for the third film because there is one other fault I'm feeling: it feels like the movie is just...there, y'know. Trek '09 felt like it needed to exist, and that's correct, but this feels just there. If Trek 3 is what I want, it would make sense given the events of this film, but if not, then whats how it's gonna feel for me.

So yeah...

 

[Fox]

^ I agree with a lot of your points. I actually made a lot of the same one on my blog just recently

http://fenskeland.blogspot.ca/2013/05/star-trek-feminism-future-letter-to.html

But yeah, the long and short of it is that 'Into Darkness' was good, and I'm definitely looking forward to more, but it wasn't great. And it should have been.

 

[roach]

I saw it last night: I thought it was entertaining, and a good film overall, but its has its faults, and other things to point out.

- I thought it was unnecessary to demote Kirk to First Officer for 20 minutes of the film just to promote him back to Captain for its second act. Maybe this is a nitpick, but if they just had him stay as Captain, but still be in trouble and say that there will be a hearing to decide if Kirk's reasoning and defending of his actions determine if he will stay as Captain or be demoted, that of course doesn't happen once the attacks happen, then that woul've been better and made sense. What I said is what a military would do, and that's what Starfleet is.

Starfleet has always been a pseudo military organization. I think the point of the demotion was to show that he wasn't ready for the chair....but you still need him as Captain so by making him the First Officer and then

Spoiler

Killing Pike

you have him back as Captain.

- Maybe a nitpick too, but if what I said above didn't happen, then at least have Marcus be the one who demotes Kirk and not Pike, but leave the rest of Pike's scenes intact.

Marcus was the one who demoted Kirk...Pike is just the messenger. Marcus called a special hearing in which Pike wasn't invited. When Marcus gets a chance to speak to Marcus on Kirk's behalf he manages to convince him to let him be his first officer.

- Klingons better be the villains for Trek 3. They say they are, but I want a full blown, epic, Federation/Klingon war in the next film. MAKE IT HAPPEN!

- Did anyone realize that by having Spock call Spock Prime, he was using a cheat code in the movie?! lol

- I didn't have a problem with Khan, and I actually liked how it might've been a different Khan that was sympathetic, until the reveal at the end. Plus, if this wasn't Khan, he would've been seen by us as Khan-esque.

- The Wrath of Khan copied scenes: now I will say on one hand, maybe there wasn't any other way going around copying scenes to get from Point B to C; but, on the other hand, they could've kept the tension and suspense if they've changed some things. When Kirk is in the reactor, they should've had the inside be extremely dangerous than how it was, such as having Kirk at risk of being burned alive from the extreme heat and showing Kirk with burnt and radated marks on his face. The other was switching the two scenes that I felt was out of order; after Kirk "dies", and Spock is sadden, it should've been the Vengeance falling from the sky, then Spock screaming "KHAN!" then how it was the other way around.

- Maybe the whole reveal that Khan's blood can be used to bring someone back could've been less obvious.

- Because Carol and Kirk had a relationship in the prime universe, maybe there should've been something hinted, or maybe have those two hooked up by the end, instead of the question mark we have for them in Trek 3.

Just because they have a relationship in the Prime universe doesnt mean they have to have one in this one.

Overall though, the movie was still good and entertaining, despite the faults and how I think they should've been. I hope there is a big epic, Federation/Klingon war, for the third film because there is one other fault I'm feeling: it feels like the movie is just...there, y'know. Trek '09 felt like it needed to exist, and that's correct, but this feels just there. If Trek 3 is what I want, it would make sense given the events of this film, but if not, then whats how it's gonna feel for me.

So yeah...

I agree that Star Trek 3 should be the fallout of the klingon scenes...war with Kronos.

 

[Cannikin]

I agree that Star Trek 3 should be the fallout of the klingon scenes...war with Kronos.

I cannot begin to tell you how un-Star Trek that would be and how off putting it would be to Trek fans. It will be the final nail in the coffin for this reboot.

The 50th anniversary of Trek is coming up. If they take that opportunity and crank out some Star Trek themed war movie, fans are likely to lead an armed revolt.

 

[The Navigator]

I cannot begin to tell you how un-Star Trek that would be and how off putting it would be to Trek fans. It will be the final nail in the coffin for this reboot.

The 50th anniversary of Trek is coming up. If they take that opportunity and crank out some Star Trek themed war movie, fans are likely to lead an armed revolt.

What did you think of DS9's Dominion War, just out of curiosity?

 

[Cannikin]

What did you think of DS9's Dominion War, just out of curiosity?

I hated the last few seasons of DS9. I was already a little iffy on it. That war would never have happened if Roddenberry had been alive. I settled for Voyager. I tried to be forgiving of DS9. The writers and producers were all people who had felt shackled by Roddenberry's rules and set out to break as many as possible. War being the biggest, IMHO.

Star Trek deals with war by discussion of the consequences and the lessons learned. Star Trek gets to the brink of war only to find a way out of it at the last moment. Enterprise usually takes a pounding in the process, so you still get your space battle.

"The strength of a civilization is not measured by its ability to fight wars, but rather by its ability to prevent them" —Gene Roddenberry

 

[roach]

I cannot begin to tell you how un-Star Trek that would be and how off putting it would be to Trek fans. It will be the final nail in the coffin for this reboot.

The 50th anniversary of Trek is coming up. If they take that opportunity and crank out some Star Trek themed war movie, fans are likely to lead an armed revolt.

i dont think you understand the idea behind an alternate reality...are you upset that the mirror universe is more aggressive than the main trek universe?

 

[jonathancrane]

I have enjoyed the reboot and the sequel's critique of the War on Terror; and war with the Klingons would be the next logical step. The question is would be the best? I do not know; I have to have a treatment/script from the writers to understand their interpretation of the implications of the war. It could be turned into a heart-wringing drama showing the implications of a mechanized Starfleet and the effects of it on Earth: namely, the climax of the reversion of Utopia, as Roddenberry envisioned.

The popcorn, blockbuster lovin' half of my brain is in love with this scenario, and the logical, Appollonian half, is not. Blown up cities and planets can be quite tiring, after a while; they lose the shock value. Trying to raise the stakes past planetary destruction brings it to the level of absurdity with the Dalek Reality Bomb, which would compromise the aesthetic that Abrams & Co. have created. If anything, they should adopt a subdued template from a film such as the Undiscovered Country. A small-scale, intimate political drama where these larger than life personalities can engage with large issues.

Now, I am not advocating incorporating the plot, piecemeal or whole from the Undiscovered Country, but, rather, the scope and writing. And a scenario where the Enterprise is not trashed (paraphrasing a Tweet from Michael Ian Black, he wrote something along the lines of, "...can we not have the Enterprise destroyed in every Star Trek film?") If anything, I would like some more landing party sequences: one of the aspects that the creative tried to hit on (but not much as they should) was the awesomeness of discovering new planets.

Ideally, I would like for the film to be set on an alien locale or two, but on something really cool: the Klingon mining asteroid in ...Country was cool, because nothing like it had been shown before. And more aliens! I want the planet and aliens to highlight the human imagination: a scene or two like the bar scene in III would do wonders for restoring some components of the show that have been missing.

Additionally, I would like to see the Marcus-Kirk relationship expanded. Seeds were planted in Into Darkness, but, it would be nice to have it fleshed out over the film. The Green Woman gag is close to reaching its peak, if it has not already.

 

[reddog312]

I cannot begin to tell you how un-Star Trek that would be and how off putting it would be to Trek fans. It will be the final nail in the coffin for this reboot.

The 50th anniversary of Trek is coming up. If they take that opportunity and crank out some Star Trek themed war movie, fans are likely to lead an armed revolt.

They would be idiots not to make it an epic War movie. Thats what the people buying tickets want. The key to making ST work it to make it more exciting for the new fans. The old fans will still watch. If you make a movie for the old fans your asking for trouble ticket wise.