Star Wars 2.0 - Part 1.5 Chapter III: Revenge of the Thread - Part 4

[Lord]

Are there any news about the proposed Bobba Fett movie?

 

[Timstuff]

So Lucas be trollin' again, I see...

As usual I think we can expect that the new versions will be a mixed bag. Lucas is doing more stuff to piss us off like that goofy third iteration of the Kraayte dragon and that ******ed "NOOOOOOOO!" from ROTS now ruining the ending of Return of the Jedi, but he's also making a couple of welcome changes like the CG yoda in TPM and the blinking eyes on the ewoks. It's probably going to be all over the place, but we won't really know what the damage is until we get to see the whole thing.

I'm going to buy this set because I've been waiting years for it, and a couple of annoying artistic licenses being taken aren't enough to stop me from buying it. However, once Adywan comes out with his Revisited cut of ROTJ using the Blu-Ray version as a source, the official disc will be more or less obsolete. I just wish that his ESB Revisited cut was in 1080p, but alas, 720p was the best source available when he made it.

 

[bullets]

After he posted this.

Then he posted this.

Spaced was a great show.

I got caught up watching some of the Star Wars marathon on spike today. I don't think Hayden Christiansen was all that bad , to me , the issues are with some of the dialogue.

 

[8wid]

I'm personally done with seeing with Star Wars special editions and anything related to the prequels on film.

In ancient history of the Galaxy is next and the days of the Empire again. Only Skywalkers and Solos from the post-Endor era.

I'm also fine with movies about Boba Fett, Jedi in hiding, Mandolorians, left over Imperials, Dark Jedi in the future.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

With all due respect, I don't see why any backgroud in editing has any bearing on this, or any other changes whatsoever.
Sure, there have been compalints that it has been edited in badly, but mostly it's about character depiction.

There is always a danger of overdoing it, whether it's editing in films, or in other fields...inking in comics...painting in fine art....the measure of a good artist is to know when to step away from the work, when to know it's as completed as it can be, because you can get carried away playing with the toys.

and aye, I appreciate you went into the reasoning a little more conceptually, bringing up Luke crying out 'Noooo!' in anh as well, but as I was saying, folk were aware of Lucas' reasoning, it mainly an echo of ROTS is enough to go on to figure his thinking.

I watched ROTJ the other night, and I can't see any way that addition could work in the scene without bringing the subtle character play down, no matter how well edited it is.

First off, I did not mean to imply that my opinion on the subject was better than anyone else. If that is how it came off, I apologize.

What I meant was the editing mentality. A lot happens in the editing room and can change the original intention. Plus the idea of constantly tweak things, things that may not have been thought of originally. And I was specifically pointing out the idea of grabbing something shot somewhere else (Hayden in an outtake from Sith) and using it somewhere else (the Force ghost at the end of Jedi). Same goes for James Earl Jones recordings saying "No," and placing it in the redemption scene. Now granted, this is extreme as it is taking elements from different movies. But Lucas looks at this as one big 12+ hour movie.

Now, you might think this is excessive. But, I think we all know how Lucas is by now.

So, wrapping up, I did acknowledge that there were those that did understand it, and still hated the move. I said I initially didn't like it, but now like it thematically, even though I don't care for the execution. And I do not think it changes the meaning of the scene or the character.

I thought the Simon Pegg thing was funny. It is a bit exaggerated and I think that's the point. I think it's funny people worry about whose opinion means more, Pegg or Kevin Smith. The thing is, everyone here and or other boards are giving their opinion. It's just an opinion.

 

[Bim]

Trisha Biggar turning Ray into Darth Maul t:

[YT]uoaL6XV3p1s[/YT]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoaL6XV3p1s

 

[danoyse]

I just hope there's a fan editor for Man of Steel like Adywan so they can take that tramp stamp off of Superman's costume and CG in the trunks.

Knock it off, Kuro. This isn't the Superman thread, so there's no reason to bring that up here.

 

[Mandalore464]

What I meant was the editing mentality. A lot happens in the editing room and can change the original intention. Plus the idea of constantly tweak things, things that may not have been thought of originally. And I was specifically pointing out the idea of grabbing something shot somewhere else (Hayden in an outtake from Sith) and using it somewhere else (the Force ghost at the end of Jedi). Same goes for James Earl Jones recordings saying "No," and placing it in the redemption scene. Now granted, this is extreme as it is taking elements from different movies. But Lucas looks at this as one big 12+ hour movie.

I'm not sure it applies to what Lucas is doing here. Are we sure he took elements recorded for other purposes and decided to use them in other scenes? I was under the impression that Anakin's Force Ghost was specifically shot for the purpose of replacing Shaw in ROTJ. I'm pretty sure Vader's "No" is a new recording as well.

So it's not a case of having spare elements on his hands and finding new ways to incorporate them into the films. That's actually closer to shooting pick-ups than it is to creative editing.

Has there ever been a game so far that has accurately captured the notion of a lightsaber? One of the attractive things about a lightsaber is the power it gives you. One chop and its all over for your opponents. But that can't work for a videogame as it would make it far too easy to progress so they usually just depict the light-saber as some form of blunt instrument that takes several hits to kill something even more so in boss fights and that's never been really satisfying for me. It would be awesome for Lucasarts to come up with a truly innovative real time lightsaber combat system that really make you feel like a Jedi/Sith.

How about The Force Unleashed 2? That game sucked big time, but at least you could see body parts flying everywhere whenever you went into a lightsaber frenzy. Although if I remember correctly (I've only played the game for one day, enough time to complete it twice) it only really worked with low-life stormtroopers and not with the more resistant enemies...

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

First off, I did not mean to imply that my opinion on the subject was better than anyone else. If that is how it came off, I apologize.

What I meant was the editing mentality. A lot happens in the editing room and can change the original intention. Plus the idea of constantly tweak things, things that may not have been thought of originally. And I was specifically pointing out the idea of grabbing something shot somewhere else (Hayden in an outtake from Sith) and using it somewhere else (the Force ghost at the end of Jedi). Same goes for James Earl Jones recordings saying "No," and placing it in the redemption scene. Now granted, this is extreme as it is taking elements from different movies. But Lucas looks at this as one big 12+ hour movie.

Now, you might think this is excessive. But, I think we all know how Lucas is by now.

So, wrapping up, I did acknowledge that there were those that did understand it, and still hated the move. I said I initially didn't like it, but now like it thematically, even though I don't care for the execution. And I do not think it changes the meaning of the scene or the character.

I thought the Simon Pegg thing was funny. It is a bit exaggerated and I think that's the point. I think it's funny people worry about whose opinion means more, Pegg or Kevin Smith. The thing is, everyone here and or other boards are giving their opinion. It's just an opinion.

But you were also saying how you understood why Lucas did these things... because he enjoys the editing process.

That should tell you how it can get to the point where he implements bad ideas, because he can enjoy the process so much that he gets carried away and overdoes it.

So Lucas be trollin' again, I see...

Lucas is not doing anything specifically to try and piss people off, he's doing what he thinks is best for the films.

Hell, he has went back and tried to fix the Greedo scene again to suit fan's wishes, while at the same time, sticking to his guns over his concern about the moral implications of the scene.

 

[Timstuff]

I still think it's stupid that he changed the Greedo scene due to moral concerns. Han Solo is not a nice guy when Luke meets him, but he has good in him and turns to a more honorable career over the course of the movie. He shoots Greedo because that's something Han Solo would have done at that point in his life, and that is not the only time in the movie, or even the trilogy where he shoots first. He's the first one to shoot and kill in at least one battle with the storm troopers, he does a sneak attack to kill one of Vader's wingmen, and he opens fire on Vader in Empire Strikes Back. Lucas didn't deem it necessary to censor any of those scenes, and yet for some reason the Greedo one gets special attention from him.

Overall my opinion has always been that I think it's kind of cool when they do stuff to make the movies look better and I like having the occasional extended or deleted scene restored (or even re-created, if it simply wasn't possible with the original version), but what I don't like is when Lucas takes a scene that was artistically just fine and then says "let's change something, because we can." Having Jango Fett's actor literally phone in dialogue to dub over Boba Fett with, replacing the more age-appropriate Sebastian Shaw with random looking footage of Hayden Christensen, adding "NOOOOOOOOO" to Return of the Jedi after 5 years of people making fun of it in ROTS, making the Kraayte Dragon roar sound sillier with each incarnation... It just comes across as frivolous and an irresponsible way to handle the movie, especially since this is the only cut we are getting.

 

[gohei_]

I still think it's stupid that he changed the Greedo scene due to moral concerns. Han Solo is not a nice guy when Luke meets him, but he has good in him and turns to a more honorable career over the course of the movie. He shoots Greedo because that's something Han Solo would have done at that point in his life, and that is not the only time in the movie, or even the trilogy where he shoots first. He's the first one to shoot and kill in at least one battle with the storm troopers, he does a sneak attack to kill one of Vader's wingmen, and he opens fire on Vader in Empire Strikes Back. Lucas didn't deem it necessary to censor any of those scenes, and yet for some reason the Greedo one gets special attention from him.

Overall my opinion has always been that I think it's kind of cool when they do stuff to make the movies look better and I like having the occasional extended or deleted scene restored (or even re-created, if it simply wasn't possible with the original version), but what I don't like is when Lucas takes a scene that was artistically just fine and then says "let's change something, because we can." Having Jango Fett's actor literally phone in dialogue to dub over Boba Fett with, replacing the more age-appropriate Sebastian Shaw with random looking footage of Hayden Christensen, adding "NOOOOOOOOO" to Return of the Jedi after 5 years of people making fun of it in ROTS, making the Kraayte Dragon roar sound sillier with each incarnation... It just comes across as frivolous and an irresponsible way to handle the movie, especially since this is the only cut we are getting.

I agree with this.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

I still think it's stupid that he changed the Greedo scene due to moral concerns. Han Solo is not a nice guy when Luke meets him, but he has good in him and turns to a more honorable career over the course of the movie. He shoots Greedo because that's something Han Solo would have done at that point in his life, and that is not the only time in the movie, or even the trilogy where he shoots first. He's the first one to shoot and kill in at least one battle with the storm troopers, he does a sneak attack to kill one of Vader's wingmen, and he opens fire on Vader in Empire Strikes Back. Lucas didn't deem it necessary to censor any of those scenes, and yet for some reason the Greedo one gets special attention from him.

Aye, but also, it's not *completely* cold blooded, he's being held at gunpoint by a crook who wants to see him dead, so y'know, by our laws, he's within his rights to pull a gun on him and defend himself.

It's also wonky to have Greedo shoot first, or at the same time, because the dialogue doesn't suggest Greedo is going to shoot Han right there and then, what it suggests is that he's going to take Han along to Jabba, who might kill him.

So, it does appear that Han's life is in danger, even if it's not in immediate danger.

and as for the Stormtrooper Death Star scenes, eh, I think everyone agrees they are fighting for their lives there, we already saw the troopers kill everyone in their path who was even remotely connected to the Death Star plans.

Overall my opinion has always been that I think it's kind of cool when they do stuff to make the movies look better and I like having the occasional extended or deleted scene restored (or even re-created, if it simply wasn't possible with the original version), but what I don't like is when Lucas takes a scene that was artistically just fine and then says "let's change something, because we can." Having Jango Fett's actor literally phone in dialogue to dub over Boba Fett with, replacing the more age-appropriate Sebastian Shaw with random looking footage of Hayden Christensen, adding "NOOOOOOOOO" to Return of the Jedi after 5 years of people making fun of it in ROTS, making the Kraayte Dragon roar sound sillier with each incarnation... It just comes across as frivolous and an irresponsible way to handle the movie, especially since this is the only cut we are getting.

I think this has been most people's opinion on the matter, clean up the films, put in bits you weren't able to before(eg expanded Mos Eisley, Falcon blasting off from ME spaceport, better opening and shots of ships in Battle of Yavin), but don't be overdoing it with unnecesary adds that could inadvertantly change character or mood to the detriment of the drama.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

I'm not sure it applies to what Lucas is doing here. Are we sure he took elements recorded for other purposes and decided to use them in other scenes? I was under the impression that Anakin's Force Ghost was specifically shot for the purpose of replacing Shaw in ROTJ. I'm pretty sure Vader's "No" is a new recording as well.

So it's not a case of having spare elements on his hands and finding new ways to incorporate them into the films. That's actually closer to shooting pick-ups than it is to creative editing.

I'm pretty sure I read that Lucas showed Hayden the scene after it was finished and it was a surprise to him because he never was shot specifically for that scene. Also, I doubt Lucas recently brought in James Earl Jones just for two "No's."

This goes into my complaint in execution. I wish he specifically told Hayden what he was doing so Hayden could react properly.

Look, Lucas has said he likes to get all his elements and then create in the editing room, sometimes continually rewriting as a result. This includes re-shoots, which in a sense is part of the editing process.

But you were also saying how you understood why Lucas did these things... because he enjoys the editing process.

That should tell you how it can get to the point where he implements bad ideas, because he can enjoy the process so much that he gets carried away and overdoes it.

This is true also. But it is also a matter of opinion.

 

[Lord]

Well, in least we can't say Lucas doesn't have fun while editing

 

[the amazing fro]

This goes into my complaint in execution. I wish he specifically told Hayden what he was doing so Hayden could react properly.

This is my main problem with that change. I loved Shaw's acting in that short scene. He's talking to his old friend obi wan again after all these years and the way he looks at Luke, like he's beaming with pride at what his son has grown up to be. Its rather touching. Hayden looks like he's waiting for a bus and then stares rather creepily at nothing. Not his fault in the slightest. Lucas should have called him in to shoot it if he was that adamant to have Hayden in the scene.

 

[Hunter Rider]

It is probably one of Gentle Giant's most awesome pieces.

I have a Attakus Han in Carboinite and like I posted before, an Animated Boba Fett with Han in Carbonite.

I can't justify a piece like this as awesome as it is because I have those others. But if I had to rank Fett/with Han statues this is at the top.

I'm trying to be better but sometimes, I just have to give in. I mentioned I'm getting the Sideshow Luke vs. Vader Diorama from Empire.

Watch them do a Leia and Han scene from the Carbon Freezing Chamber.

It's such a stunning piece, I have a pic of it in a folder and every now and then I just click on it to think what might be.

Did you post a pic of the Luke vs. Vader Diorama from Empire? I have just been skimming this thread since the longwinded arguments over the changes started up, so I might have missed it.

Oh that would be a hell of a piece to have, I'm actually surprised it hasn't been made yet.

That's an awesome one, Hunter. It's expensive for sure, but for a big Boba fan like you... you have a lot of will power if you dont go for it, that's all i will say haha

Well Christmas is not far off Bim and I'm dropping hints like they going out of style! If not I probably will succumb in the end.

Why didn't Vader just force choke Fett?

Maybe it's like the Jedi mind trick and only works on the weak minded.

 

[the amazing fro]

Maybe it's like the Jedi mind trick and only works on the weak minded.

I wouldn't call Padme weak minded though. Perhaps it needs a great deal of concentration like a lot of force powers and it would be unwise for Vader to just stop fighting to try and force choke him leaving him open for half a second. To anyone else it would be fine but to Fett, all he needs is a half a second of opportunity and its all over. He's a pretty formidable dude (in the EU anyway).

 

[Bim]

Did you post a pic of the Luke vs. Vader Diorama from Empire? I have just been skimming this thread since the longwinded arguments over the changes started up, so I might have missed it.

Oh that would be a hell of a piece to have, I'm actually surprised it hasn't been made yet.

I'm assuming he means this one:

http://www.sideshowtoy.com/?page_id=35237

Indeed, hint away! Christmas is around the corner

 

[TheDreamMaster]

I wouldn't call Padme weak minded though. Perhaps it needs a great deal of concentration like a lot of force powers and it would be unwise for Vader to just stop fighting to try and force choke him leaving him open for half a second. To anyone else it would be fine but to Fett, all he needs is a half a second of opportunity and its all over. He's a pretty formidable dude (in the EU anyway).

I think it could depend on the user too. No matter how powerful Vader still is, Dooku does it mid-battle in Episode III while kicking Anakin away, so I would not say it would be such a chore to do. Granted I thinkt aht was made before the prequels but still.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

If I could go back to the prequels and re-do Anakin I really feel as though I would've rewritten him to act like Spider-Man; a do-gooder who wise-cracks to his enemies and allies alike. I feel like his character should've been more of a throwback to Luke, and we should've questioned his seriousness. I would've made us wonder more what Sidious saw in him, and it would've given some creedence to the Jedi council's doubts about him.

 

[roach]

If I could go back to the prequels and re-do Anakin I really feel as though I would've rewritten him to act like Spider-Man; a do-gooder who wise-cracks to his enemies and allies alike. I feel like his character should've been more of a throwback to Luke, and we should've questioned his seriousness. I would've made us wonder more what Sidious saw in him, and it would've given some creedence to the Jedi council's doubts about him.

i think if people had issues with his emo-ness they would have had issues if he wasnt serious.
I think if I was to rewrite him i would have made him this dark character who instead of contemplating all the bad stuff in his life threw himself headlong into the war to keep his mind occupied. I would have liked to see him brush with the dark side a little more to the point where the Council questions his committment to the Jedi Order.
I'd like to see something happen that makes him question the Order and makes it easier for Sidious to suggest another path...maybe he sees that the Jedi arent ruthless enough to end the war and he'll do anything to stop the fighting to be with his wife. So he makes a deal with the devil sort of speak.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

i think if people had issues with his emo-ness they would have had issues if he wasnt serious.
I think if I was to rewrite him i would have made him this dark character who instead of contemplating all the bad stuff in his life threw himself headlong into the war to keep his mind occupied. I would have liked to see him brush with the dark side a little more to the point where the Council questions his committment to the Jedi Order.
I'd like to see something happen that makes him question the Order and makes it easier for Sidious to suggest another path...maybe he sees that the Jedi arent ruthless enough to end the war and he'll do anything to stop the fighting to be with his wife. So he makes a deal with the devil sort of speak.

I disagree. The problem with him being "emo" is that we already know he's Vader, so by writing him complaining all the time about his emotions we were being told something we already knew. Instead of making us go "*sigh* when is Vader gonna get here" we should've been fearing seeing this good and wholesome guy go bad. That's essentially what Nolan did with Two-Face. He should've been good natured, niave, and full of smiles, but he also should've been slightly aggressive for this demeanor. I think of Chris Hemsworth's Thor as a good example of how to handle Anakin.

 

[OptimusPrime114]

If Mara Jade was in the Original Trilogy, how would it work?

I ask this because I'm working on a fan-fic story.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

My full remark on Anakin:

Christopher Nolan’s Two-Face, portrayed by Aaron Eckhart is the perfect explanation of what went wrong in the prequels. First, what does TDK and SW:ANH have in common? Good characters. Han Solo, Luke and Leia, and Chewbacca basically are the heart and soul of the story and the camera rarely leaves them alone for very long. So it’s almost incidental we’re in space in the middle of a war, that’s just the backdrop. The prequels are a much more ambitious, and IMO, better story line than the original trilogy. Plus we’re following the original trilogy’s best character: Darth Vader.

The new trilogy has tons of great characters like Dooku, Sidious, Yoda, Mace Windu and Jango Fett. Here is the problem though, aside from Obi-Wan, who was an awesome character in the prequels, the rest of the great characters have barely any screentime. Instead of giving someone like Mace Windu or Dooku the bulk of the screentime you get Jar Jar Binks and “paint-drying” Padme hogging the screen. Then there is Anakin.

So why did I bring up Two-Face. Well, Two-Face faces the same problem as Anakin. Two-Face is the cooler of the two “egos”. Anytime Harvey Dent is onscreen you’re naturally waiting for him to go evil, so you have to play his character a certain way. You have to make Harvey Dent really likeable, which Nolan did, so when he turns bad and kills younglings you’re crushed. You feel emotionally let down.

Hayden played Anakin all wrong when he wasn’t evil, and it’s not simply his fault, it’s the script. Lucas makes it abundantly clear he has a dark side because HE WHINES CONSTANTLY. When people complain we, as humans, sense they are unhappy, so instead of being worried we’d lose Anakin we’re sitting there going “JUST DO IT ALREADY, PULL THE TIGGER! We KNOW you want to!”.

Nolan on the other hand made Aaron Eckhart play Dudley-Do-Right with a tinge of aggression, so we knew what would be exploited by the forces of evil but also were secretly worried about losing this great person. The cartoon, BTAS, did much the same. We should be saying “No, not Darth Vader”, instead of “I can’t wait for Vader to get here”.

The cartoon is doing a much better job of this, but let me tell you what I would do. First of all, Anakin needed to act a lot more like Luke Skywalker. Naive and enthusiastic, and he should’ve wise-cracked to his opponents like Spider-Man. He should’ve been brash and even silly at times. You, as an audience member, should’ve questioned his seriousness, although it should be evident that he is immensely powerful (something they did well). If he was slightly more free-spirited and wise-cracking it would’ve given legitimacy to the council rejecting his rank as Master. Instead, he just comes off looking like a spoiled kid instead of a victim.

Lucas should’ve focused all his energy in making me like Anakin Skywalker from the word go. After watching MacGruber and seeing how Ryan Philippe handles comedy I think I would’ve chosen him for the role of Anakin, or even Leonardo DiCaprio because of his roles in Departed, Shutter Island and Titanic (playing likeable and affable character there). Lucas too microfocused on explaining why Anakin could be seduced by the dark side, which didn’t need the massive explanation we got. Even back in SW:AotC they were forshadowing his dark side by showing how ornery he was. Unnecessary. It’s counter-intuitive, but if you focus on making him likeable and ignore “setting up” the Vader persona people will find their own character traits they feel forshadow Vader, rather than Lucas spelling it out for them.

 

[roach]

i dont think it would have played right...one of the biggest complaints I have heard about ROTS is the turn to the darkside was too quick. I think people would have an issue if he was happy-go=lucky for two films and then becomes evil in the third.