State your opinion a character

[TheCorpulent1]

Really? I don't remember anything like that. I do remember the YA Vision mentioning that he didn't feel anything for Wanda because the original's memories are not really his. They're different characters. Different bodies, different minds, different interpersonal relationships, different everything except color scheme.

 

[The Question]

Really? I don't remember anything like that. I do remember the YA Vision mentioning that he didn't feel anything for Wanda because the original's memories are not really his. They're different characters. Different bodies, different minds, different interpersonal relationships, different everything except color scheme.

Well, that stuff happened, so it's probable that they were headed in that direction before Bendis stepped in and effectively put an end to YA.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

This was all from Heinberg comics. Hell, Wikipedia actually has a bit about it:

Some writers like Brian Michael Bendis (during the "Collective" storyline) and Ed Brubaker (during "Captain America Reborn") write him as if he was the original Vision in a new body, while other writers such as Allen Heinberg and Dan Slott write him as an entirely new character.

 

[The Question]

This was all from Heinberg comics. Hell, Wikipedia actually has a bit about it:

The stuff I mentioned was also from Heinberg comics. Unless it's a direct quote from the man I don't entirely trust wikipedia with information about a story he never got a chance to finish.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Then I guess you can interpret it however you like. The preponderance of evidence seems to indicate that Vision Jr.'s a new character. Different mannerisms, different mind, different body, slightly different powers, no emotional connection to anything from the original Vision's life, etc.

 

[runawayboulder]

Vision Jr is not the Vision, plain and simple. The original rules and the new one is just ok.

 

[The Question]

Then I guess you can interpret it however you like. The preponderance of evidence seems to indicate that Vision Jr.'s a new character. Different mannerisms, different mind, different body, slightly different powers, no emotional connection to anything from the original Vision's life, etc.

But I think you're not taking story context into account. While it's not solid proof, the fact that they would bring back The Vision in any form in a series with a central planned storyline involving finding The Scarlet Witch and the reincarnated children of The Vision and Wanda does indicate that the intent for him to be the original Vision in some capacity is at least plausible.

And again, I think the conversation with Jarvis where Vision Jr.'s dialogue indicates that he self identifies as the original to some extent, whcih was from an issue of Young Avengers written by the original author, can't be ignored.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

You say I'm not taking context into account, I say you're assuming a hell of a lot. I don't claim to know what Heinberg's intent is, but I think there's enough evidence to show he's not the original to satisfy me. You also don't know that Heinberg's original intent wasn't to bring the Vision back as a new character to make it all the more heart-wrenching when Wanda returns and finds that her husband is still dead by her hand. We're both assuming different things, basically, and the evidence could potentially point either way.

Vision Jr is not the Vision, plain and simple. The original rules and the new one is just ok.

His costume's cooler. Gotta give him that much. I hope the original Vision would go back to his Harras-era costume if and when he comes back for good.

 

[runawayboulder]

I just want him to come back, I don't care if it's the Byrne white and barefoot version.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm content for him to be dead as long as Bendis is still steering the Avengers ship.

 

[Anubis]

Well, turns out Wanda was a good one. Provoked a decent conversation. Not bad. Lets go with another Marvel lady.

Jean Grey

Personally, I'm gonna go with Meh.

 

[SuperFerret]

I liked Jean for a little while, and then I stopped that.

 

[sandwraith]

Dies too many times.

 

[Energist]

I like her well enough. More than White Queen, anyway, assuming the X-Men need a requisite field psychic on the team.

And I see the quips about her dying all the time, but how many times as she actually died? I've never bothered to look into it, myself.

Great pic, by the way.

 

[Anubis]

twice I think. Most of the time it was a clone or some boos**t.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Wasn't reading comics when she was alive. All I know is that she and Cyclops love to scream each other's names in times of peril.

 

[Anubis]

JeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaNNNNN!!!

Loooooooooo I mean Scoooooooootttttt!!!!

 

[BLACKVULCAN]

Boo!She sucks!! never was into Marvel girl( that's the dumbest ass name next to "Maggot" ever invented. Stan must have had guests outta town for that one and couldnt be bothered) Jean Grey, Phoenix, Dark Phoenix,Black Queen (though i did dig that outfit!),Madelin Pryor, ( yeah! i know! she was suppose to be a different person, but come on!) The Goblin Queen or whatever myriad other aliases that chick went under! Her death, the 1st time was kinda halfway/ somewhat interesting,but after that forget it!Girl sucks! Both Wolverine and Cyclops could do alot better! Haha

 

[sandwraith]

Thing is, I have a thing for redheads. But Jean totally feels like a bothersome character most of the time. She's either too powerful, too *****y, too clingy, too aloof or just too boring.

I can see how Emma Frost seemed like a breath of fresh air after Jean's death at the end of Morrison's run. Whether that was her 2nd canonical death or her 17th hardly matters.

 

[Cheshire1996]

I could take her or leave her. This is just my personal opinion but she had the tendency to become one hell of a Mary Sue at times. Then again, she had her moments, she had her lines and like every character, in the right hands she could and can be fantastic.

But in terms of what I have read, my reaction to her is basically nothing more than a 'meh'. She's far from the worst and she's far from the best.

 

[chiefchirpa]

So 90's

I'm cool if she returns though. But enough with the dead again & again stunt.

 

[Congo Jack]

Jean Grey

Used and abused by Marvel.

An essential member of the X-Men that became a victim of her own success - the Dark Phoenix Saga became 10 times bigger than the character, and for the most part writers became unable to move on.

John Byrne and Roger Stern tried their best to bring the original Jean Grey back in a not particularly great storyline - but it got the job done. The problems began when writers kept trying to incorporate Phoenix-aspects back into Jean. Chris Claremont started it in 2000, and Grant Morrison continued down that path before eventually killing her.

I'd love Jean Grey to come back, but I don't trust the current editorial to do it properly. So for now, I think it's better that she stays off the board.

 

[random_havoc]

Used and abused by Marvel.

An essential member of the X-Men that became a victim of her own success - the Dark Phoenix Saga became 10 times bigger than the character, and for the most part writers became unable to move on.

John Byrne and Roger Stern tried their best to bring the original Jean Grey back in a not particularly great storyline - but it got the job done. The problems began when writers kept trying to incorporate Phoenix-aspects back into Jean. Chris Claremont started it in 2000, and Grant Morrison continued down that path before eventually killing her.

I'd love Jean Grey to come back, but I don't trust the current editorial to do it properly. So for now, I think it's better that she stays off the board.

Wow, pretty much my exact thoughts.

 

[runawayboulder]

Congo Jack summed it up perfectly. I've said many of times on this board they should bring her back in a single X-Men story and have her leave the team and go her own way. I would inject her into another aspect of the universe with the Avengers or somebody else. It would be a great change of pace as opposed to her coming back and being a 3rd wheel for Scott and Emma.

She's one of my favorite characters and like Wanda has been treated poorly over time.

 

[Anubis]

They'd probably go with an alternate universe version of Jean that never got exposed to the Phoenix Force and just became a really high level telepath/telekinetic who like, kills people so she can join X-Force. She can even start humping Wolverine.

There was a point where I wanted to like Jean but now I just don't care. I don't even like her name. Jean. Sounds like a gym teacher.