Stephen King's "IT" remake has found a writer - Part 4

[misslane38]

This movie most definitely didn't eat into my subconscious or fuel my nightmares. Part of the problem is it's tonal changes in spot as it lept back and forth between trying to be a horror movie and a coming-of-age nostalgia piece. I suspect that is due to production changes with the director and screenplay.

Bev's dad was the closest thing to what you described and I found him significantly creepier than Pennywise. But Eddie's mom was a joke. We spent absolutely no time with her and introduced so late in the film. She was a caricature not an actual menacing character. That was the case for most of the parents we saw.

That's my problem though - the city and the adults within it are supposed to be fueling this killer clown and yet it was basically given lip service. I guess that's fine for some people if they simply just spell it out for them in the movie as a throwaway line. I thought the movie would've played better with less goofy Pennywise cat-and-mouse chases and more town building. By the time we got to the end battle Pennywise was watered down to me.

No, that's literally the tone of the book. It's a coming-of-age story with horror movie tropes as the backdrop. The fuel for nightmares I'm referring to has more to do with the narrative and the characters. The real life horrors Beverly, Eddie, Henry, and the rest experience are ones that will continue to torment them into adulthood. The pulpy horror tropes Pennywise uses works on kids because they have a more primal resonance with them at that age.

I wasn't referring to Eddie's mom as scary by herself. She's scary because of her effect on Eddie, which is revealed later. It's like a horror movie twist, but it's real life horror. The sinister clues are there the whole time, but the scary part doesn't happen until you realize the full scope of her monstrous and insidious influence. Like I said, it isn't bone-chilling scary. It's the kind of fear that makes you sick to your stomach and eats away trust.

When I'm watching a horror movie, I know that the evils I'm seeing are never going to exist in the real world. There isn't anything in Pennywise or his tricks that I recognize as real threats to me. But, as a school counselor, I'm terrified for kids who have to navigate lives filled with horrors. It frightens me to think how these horrors shape kids into adulthood. It is what drives me to help them, and it is often helping them get support from friends like the Losers that makes enough of a difference.

The film didn't spell these things out in throwaway lines. There were countless examples of adult and societal evils keeping Pennywise fed with an endless supply of children with fear to exploit.

 

[JtheDreamer]

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/09/12/collins-crypt-how-can-anyone-think-it-isnt-a-horror-movie

Great write up.

More like a very long-winded, sarcastic rant. LOL

 

[Broseph44]

Spoiler

I'll take him, I'll take all of you, and I'll feast on your flesh as I feed on your fear, or you can leave us be and I'll take him, only him and you will all live to grow old and thrive and live happy lives, until old age takes you back to the weeds?

I loved that part. gave me goosebumps.

Loved it as well, his delivery was awesome.

 

[JtheDreamer]

The film didn't spell these things out in throwaway lines. There were countless examples of adult and societal evils keeping Pennywise fed with an endless supply of children with fear to exploit.

It was a throwaway line spoken by the home-schooled kid when they were gathered outside of some kind of town fair.

The rest of it is a loose connection because you the viewer with prior knowledge of this story know that's how it's supposed to be. That's a very key distinction. How Pennywise is drawing off the evil of the town's adults is not very efficiently explained/connected - it's half concocted.

 

[misslane38]

It was a throwaway line spoken by the home-schooled kid when they were gathered outside of some kind of town fair.

The rest of it is a loose connection because you the viewer with prior knowledge of this story know that's how it's supposed to be. That's a very key distinction. How Pennywise is drawing off the evil of the town's adults is not very efficiently explained/connected - it's half concocted.

The throwaway line is spelling out something that has been seeded throughout the entire film. And it's not something I see because I know the book. It is very hard to miss the perverse pharmacist, the racism, the toxic masculinity, and the adults who turn a blind eye to violent bullying. The through line with Henry Bowers is probably the most explicit. Henry is bullied by his father, a cop, and that bullying pushes him to prove his masculinity. He beats up one of the only black boys in town; It later uses Henry's weaknesses to prey upon the Losers club. Even the way in which Beverly's and Eddie's fears manifest themselves in Pennywise speaks to this theme. Beverly is afraid of becoming a woman because it may change her relationship with her father, so Pennywise torments her with cut hair and blood. Eddie has been taught to fear disease his whole life, so his fear manifests itself as a leper. Pennywise is using the real world fears the kids can't quite articulate and is morphing them into the kinds of things that scare kids. It needs the adult horrors to nurture children with fears to exploit.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Why is it so hard for some people to understand that a movie can be BOTH a horror film and a Coming Of Age story? The film doesn't cease to be horror just because it has real story development beyond the scares.

 

[danoyse]

So...people are still debating if a film that opens with a monster disguised as a clown multilating a first grader is actually a horror film or not?

 

[JtheDreamer]

The throwaway line is spelling out something that has been seeded throughout the entire film. And it's not something I see because I know the book. It is very hard to miss the perverse pharmacist, the racism, the toxic masculinity, and the adults who turn a blind eye to violent bullying. The through line with Henry Bowers is probably the most explicit. Henry is bullied by his father, a cop, and that bullying pushes him to prove his masculinity. He beats up one of the only black boys in town; It later uses Henry's weaknesses to prey upon the Losers club. Even the way in which Beverly's and Eddie's fears manifest themselves in Pennywise speaks to this theme. Beverly is afraid of becoming a woman because it may change her relationship with her father, so Pennywise torments her with cut hair and blood. Eddie has been taught to fear disease his whole life, so his fear manifests itself as a leper. Pennywise is using the real world fears the kids can't quite articulate and is morphing them into the kinds of things that scare kids. It needs the adult horrors to nurture children with fears to exploit.

Again, I know of these scenes in the movie. Yes, they are tools used to scare the kids, but I'm specifically referring to how Pennywise is empowered. The movie hands you those scenes and then in that one moment the home-schooled kid deduces "Aha! My family said this town is evil. That must be it!".

 

[JtheDreamer]

So...people are still debating if a film that opens with a monster disguised as a clown multilating a first grader is actually a horror film or not?

No.

Debating the effectiveness or rather "vagaries" of how Pennywise is empowered.

 

[danoyse]

No.

Debating the effectiveness or rather "vagaries" of how Pennywise is empowered.

OK. Have fun...

 

[JtheDreamer]

OK. Have fun...

Always do.

 

[misslane38]

Again, I know of these scenes in the movie. Yes, they are tools used to scare the kids, but I'm specifically referring to how Pennywise is empowered. The movie hands you those scenes and then in that one moment the home-schooled kid deduces "Aha! My family said this town is evil. That must be it!".

Yes, Mike (he has a name, you know) is just verbalizing what has already become apparent. He's making the subtext into actual text. Pennywise is empowered by the evil in the town, and it's obvious long before Mike Hanlon says a word. That's only when Mike figures it out.

 

[roach]

Why is it so hard for some people to understand that a movie can be BOTH a horror film and a Coming Of Age story? The film doesn't cease to be horror just because it has real story development beyond the scares.

I don't get the whole "lets debate genre" thing

 

[Broseph44]

So...people are still debating if a film that opens with a monster disguised as a clown multilating a first grader is actually a horror film or not?

Why is it so hard for some people to understand that a movie can be BOTH a horror film and a Coming Of Age story? The film doesn't cease to be horror just because it has real story development beyond the scares.

Yeahhhhh I can't get involved with that. Too redundant and just, yeah. Moving on

 

[Stark Bauer]

I'm not talking about "horror" scares, though. I'm talking about the kind of scary that eats into your subconscious and is the fuel for your nightmares. The myriad ways in which adults feed on children is genuinely frightening, but not jump out of your seat frightening. It's a trapped, sick to your stomach, and powerless fear. It's the kind of fear generated when the people you think love you are the people from whom you need protection. It's psychological terror. The stuff that digs its teeth into you as a child and holds onto long enough for it to devour you as an adult, as it will each of the Losers.

Bev's dad is terrifying. Fortunately, as a young girl, I was never abused or molested, but it's actually not that uncommon. When I was Beverly's age, older men and boys used to make lewd comments about me and pay attention to me in ways that scared me and made me uncomfortable. Every woman I know experienced things like that growing up and many still do in the form of sexual harassment. That's an everyday fear, so Mr. Marsh isn't scary because he's a big old meanie. He's scary because every girl and woman knows what it's like on some level. It's scary.

Well said! I'm gonna mention Jack Torrance from the shining as an example. Especially from his son Danny's perspective.

 

[Stark Bauer]

The throwaway line is spelling out something that has been seeded throughout the entire film. And it's not something I see because I know the book. It is very hard to miss the perverse pharmacist, the racism, the toxic masculinity, and the adults who turn a blind eye to violent bullying. The through line with Henry Bowers is probably the most explicit. Henry is bullied by his father, a cop, and that bullying pushes him to prove his masculinity. He beats up one of the only black boys in town; It later uses Henry's weaknesses to prey upon the Losers club. Even the way in which Beverly's and Eddie's fears manifest themselves in Pennywise speaks to this theme. Beverly is afraid of becoming a woman because it may change her relationship with her father, so Pennywise torments her with cut hair and blood. Eddie has been taught to fear disease his whole life, so his fear manifests itself as a leper. Pennywise is using the real world fears the kids can't quite articulate and is morphing them into the kinds of things that scare kids. It needs the adult horrors to nurture children with fears to exploit.

Please write a review, your posts are very well written!

 

[samsnee]

Spoiler

I'll take him, I'll take all of you, and I'll feast on your flesh as I feed on your fear, or you can leave us be and I'll take him, only him and you will all live to grow old and thrive and live happy lives, until old age takes you back to the weeds?

I loved that part. gave me goosebumps.

I actually like Richie's response to that. His last line got the audience cheering.

 

[samsnee]

http://bloody-disgusting.com/news/3...sidered-pennywise-taking-form-freddy-krueger/

That would have been awesome and totally fit with the film. Telling you Muschietti should be the one to bring Krueger back after the IT sequel. IT had a huge Nightmare on Elm Street vibe.

Eh I'm glad they didn't. I liked the subtle 80s clues like movie titles. It would have been funny but taken me out of the movie.

 

[Luigi]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BYx9RMxlPNe/

 

[Guts]

Screenrant talks about the Cary fukunaga version of the film, for the most part I am happy with what we got, only thing that seemed more interesting (and perhaps we'll get it in a sequel (whenever WB/NL greenlite one)) was a more indepth look into the origins of IT.

http://screenrant.com/it-movie-2017-original-script-changes-cary-fukunaga/

Birth Movies Death did a similar write up a few months back.

From what I've seen a lot of the earlier draft was retained. I'm fine with what they changed as they were usually changes to make it closer to the book.

That said, I don't think they really came up with much to do with Stan. While the naked succubus lady in the earlier draft was not the best move it seems a little more potent than the Painting lady.

Also that scene with painting was oddly identical to the one in the Conjuring 2.

When that painting showed up the first thing I thought about was the scene from the Conjuring 2. But I do agree with Rorshach that the woman in the painting looks just like the monster from Mama.

 

[terry78]

Yeah, I think that was somewhat of a shout out from him.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I didn't think those adult aspects were scary at all, so it left me with a pretty dull, okay movie. Maybe I'm desensitized, but I don't really buy into that because a movie like The Conjuring 2 managed to keep me on my toes and entertain the hell out of me. Yeah, Bev's dad was a mean guy, but it just didn't leave an impression. The film needed a different touch, more oomph.

I agree with this a lot. Especially the Conjuring 2 comparison. The Nun bothers the crap out of me. Same for the Crooked Man and the possession talking scene is an all timer imo.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So...people are still debating if a film that opens with a monster disguised as a clown multilating a first grader is actually a horror film or not?

Just so I am clear, because I see how my original post is rather unclear. It is a horror movie, I just don't find it an effective one. But I really enjoyed the movie for other reasons. That being said, something like the Conjuring 2 made me fall in love with the characters and scare me quit a bit. Still, I quite enjoyed It. I could feel the Spielberg and enjoyed it.

 

[roach]

This movie makes me wish they went back and used the alternative takes for Jaws

 

[markjoedelonge]

I think my biggest issue with the film is the reason why the Losers decide to take down Pennywise.

Spoiler

In the film, they go after It to rescue Bev. Why change it to a damsel in distress situation? I loved their motivation in the novel and the 1990 film, that although they were only kids, they decided to stand up to the evil rather than let it continue to infest Derry.