Suicide Squad: General Discussion and Speculation - - - - - - - - - - - Part 28

[titansupes]

Disappointing is now considered a positive statement apparently.

It's like 'sick'.

"This movie's sick, bro."

 

[jmc]

Sigh.

Here we are talking about whether a C is a good review or not.

What a fine state this DCEU is certainly in, when that's a topic of discussion. When we're not mentioning Bs or As, but only discussing whether an average score is good or bad.

WB went from a few votes away from having a superhero movie being nominated for a freaking Best Picture Academy Award to films with critical receptions ranking along side Batman and Robin. How far things have fallen.

 

[MadVillainy]

idk, but that is what stand out to me the most. what is with this. is it last minute studio involvement that ends up butchering these films ???

That's what it seems like

 

[FunkMiller]

WB went from a few votes away from having a superhero movie being nominated for a freaking Best Picture Academy Award to films with critical receptions ranking along side Batman and Robin. How far things have fallen.

MCU happened. DC/WB responded in the worst way possible.

 

[harlequinade]

idk, but that is what stand out to me the most. what is with this. is it last minute studio involvement that ends up butchering these films ???

It sounds like WB freaked out, jumped in to remove controversial elements and didn't cover their tracks which shows :/

 

[jmc]

MCU happened. DC/WB responded in the worst way possible.

It was a combination of things really. It is what it is though.

 

[FunkMiller]

It sounds like WB freaked out, jumped in to remove controversial elements and didn't cover their tracks which shows :/

They went dark with BvS. That didn't work. They blamed the failure on the tone rather than the poor storytelling, so knee-jerked a reaction with SS to lighten it up, which seems to have destroyed that film's integrity too.

No good films have ever been made as a reaction to a bad one.

 

[Plaidchuck]

At this point I want them to just double down and ride this flaming ball as far as it'll go to make fanboys mad lol.

 

[Raiden]

It sounds like WB freaked out, jumped in to remove controversial elements and didn't cover their tracks which shows :/

And I thought WB let their director do whatever they wanted. Aren't they supposed to be "director first"?

 

[Tacit Ronin]

And I thought WB let their director do whatever they wanted. Aren't they supposed to be "director first"?

Directors first. Studios come in second with their butchers.

 

[Predator jp]

It sounds like WB freaked out, jumped in to remove controversial elements and didn't cover their tracks which shows :/

sounds familiar lol
so WB learned absolutely nothing since BvS?

 

[harlequinade]

They went dark with BvS. That didn't work. They blamed the failure on the tone rather than the poor storytelling, so knee-jerked a reaction with SS to lighten it up, which seems to have destroyed that film's integrity too.

No good films have ever been made as a reaction to a bad one.

But it's really just...would the jokes that are in less funny if we saw Joker slap Harley in one scene? I just don't understand their decision process over 1. cutting scenes 2. featuring those scenes in marketing so that we then know for sure they did cut them

 

[Tacit Ronin]

There still a smidgen of hope left with Wonder Woman.

 

[kguillou]

I just watched Stuckmann's review, I really like the guy, he's a very level headed reviewer who articulates the pros and cons well and I tend to agree with him. That said, from what he is saying.....WTF IS WRONG WITH WB, MAN?! Why do they insist on messing with these directors' films?? Stuckmann was STRESSING that its painfully obvious TONS of footage was cut out and the film is schizophrenic...LIKE THE BVS TC CUT and Fantastic 4. THIS is why people are comparing it to Fant4stic, apparently the second and third act are just jumbled together to one big climax.

Wow, now I feel that Im gonna have a serious problem with this movie. Tone, characterization and story direction are all things I could get over, but I cant get into a film that just has bad editing and not competently put together. BvS' TC drove me nuts ( but I love the UC though). And I'm willing to BET Josh Trank's original version of Fant4stic ( which we'll never see because he opened his big mouth) was much better before Fox came in and mangled it.

Sigh...here's hoping we get to see AYER's Suicide Squad movie on blu ray and not WB's unfinished version.

 

[FunkMiller]

There still a smidgen of hope left with Wonder Woman.

Yes. If that's good, things might be salvageable in the long run. If it's the same as the previous movies though, the DCEU dies with Justice League.

 

[harlequinade]

But really has no one in WB after what happened with BvS figured, hey, maybe removing tons of footage is not the way to go?

 

[Tacit Ronin]

No hope for JL for me. Shifting one extreme tone for another won't change the fundamental problems with Snyder's storytelling.

 

[tanita_mors]

Yeah, editing wise, this looks like it got Fantastic Four-ed. But I personally have to see to what degree and how is everything else.
And it isn't about removing tons of footage, it's about disrupting the flow of the story and losing focus in it, particularly if you replace it with just action

 

[FunkMiller]

No hope for JL for me. Shifting one extreme tone for another won't change the fundamental problems with Snyder's storytelling.

Too true. I'm already writing that one off as an average to poor movie, so WW really is the only potential bright spot at the moment.

 

[jmc]

Yes. If that's good, things might be salvageable in the long run. If it's the same as the previous movies though, the DCEU dies with Justice League.

At this point WB's judgement about the creative teams has to be brought into question. As far as I'm concerned Wonder Woman is not necessarily in safe hands.

 

[Tv's Phil]

Ignoring the specifics of SS at the moment as I'm not going to speculate over something I haven't seen, I'm often surprised that flawed films make it through all the studio gateways either being changed for the worse or with no notes to change for the better.
I don't believe there's a magic formula for success of a blockbuster aside from exact mimicry or anti-creative simplicity, but you'd think executives would have enough experience with critical response that they'd notice things that might get hammered on. Especially if a director is experienced and shoots enough that you have some slack for editing. Not that you could fine tune it to a guaranteed hit but that it'd be critically average at worst.

I don't believe any director/writer/actor sets out to make a bad movie. But it's easy to believe there are some higher ups in the studio who don't have an eye for art and can get in the way.

Regardless of the outcome of this cinematic universe, I think it'd benefit the DC brand with some breathing room if they weren't under the WB umbrella in the way they currently are.

 

[Marathon]

If they had set up the Snyderverse as an explicitly Earth-3 take on the DC pantheon - Owlman, Ultraman, Superwoman, etc. - maybe the mess wouldn't be as big as it is now, as it's hard to root for a sociopathic Superman, a Rorschach/Punisher-Batman, etc.

Having said that, that still doesn't explain why SS is not getting critical traction. Shoddy/unpolished script? Bad editing choices?

Whatever all of this is, it makes WB look like bumbling fools.

 

[jmc]

Ignoring the specifics of SS at the moment as I'm not going to speculate over something I haven't seen, I'm often surprised that flawed films make it through all the studio gateways either being changed for the worse or with no notes to change for the better.
I don't believe there's a magic formula for success of a blockbuster aside from exact mimicry or anti-creative simplicity, but you'd think executives would have enough experience with critical response that they'd notice things that might get hammered on. Especially if a director is experienced and shoots enough that you have some slack for editing. Not that you could fine tune it to a guaranteed hit but that it'd be critically average at worst.

I don't believe any director/writer/actor sets out to make a bad movie. But it's easy to believe there are some higher ups in the studio who don't have an eye for art and can get in the way.

Regardless of the outcome of this cinematic universe, I think it'd benefit the DC brand with some breathing room if they weren't under the WB umbrella in the way they currently are.

They clearly don't have the talent at the executive level to see when something is and isn't working.

 

[AnneFan]

How many people have actually seen the movie for themselves yet, without just judging the RT score?

 

[JC00]

@adamhlavac
#SuicideSquad is dark but balances itself w humor & levity. Tone wasn't an issue - it was story + pacing.