Superman Returns Superman Returns:Final Thoughts

Arkady Rossovich

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The movie has been out,and there have been many words about it.Good and bad,for some,they just want to leave perhaps a final thought or discussion before they move on.What is your final word?Was it great,or could it have been more?Say it..one last time.:super:
 
Traffic through this thread will go down as the new year begins and GR,FF2,Spidey 3, and Dark Knight will be all any of us really care about.

To those like me that liked SR alot, I'm glad people like you exist on Earth. Have a Happy Holiday Season and see you at the the movies in 2009.

To those of you that were disappointed unlike me, I'm glad people like you exist on Earth. Have a Happy Holiday and see you hopefully at the movies in 2009 to see if Singer is a great as I've made him out to be this past few months.:yay:
 
I'm glad it wasn't Abrams/Burton/McG.
 
I really like RETURNS...

...But the definative Superman film is yet to be made....
 
This was just the begining of a fresh start of Superman in the 21st century. I beleive Singer gave us a spectacular movie and will continue to prove why his directing is gold. The next movie however should focus on Superman a lot more rather than Lois. I look forward to the sequel and many more Superman movies that are made. :supes:
 
I really enjoyed SR, but felt it could have been better. I'd prefer more focus on Superman and ramped up action in the sequel. There were parts that screamed Superman to me and then others that felt slightly out of place. SR wasn't the movie I was expecting (a bit more melodramatic than I had imagined), but it's definitely among my fav comic films.
 
I loved Superman Returns just as it was. I thought it was very well made and Brandon Routh did a fantastic job playing Clark Kent and Superman. It stands as one of my favourite comic book movies and I greatly look forward to the sequel. :super:
 
Did not like it the first time and still do not like it now. Casting was terrible the plot was just stupid, it was boring. To top it off, their is the Kid.

I am still waiting for a Superman film, as I have not seen one since the Reeve films.
 
GarudA said:
Did not like it the first time and still do not like it now. Casting was terrible the plot was just stupid, it was boring. To top it off, their is the Kid.

I am still waiting for a Superman film, as I have not seen one since the Reeve films.

Sure, Superman III and Superman IV were great :whatever:
The truth is that Superman: The Movie was a movie of the same level of Superman Returns, with even the same problems (lack of action, "campy" Lex and so called "boring moments" included).
Hypocrisy reigns supreme in this forum.

You can say that Singer did a mistake because the Donner's vision is too dated for the 2006; I don't agree, but the critic is legit. I can bet that NOW S:TM is considered boring by the 95% of the teen-agers.
But the story of the Reeve films were great and SR sucks, it's the greatest BS ever written.
 
I got the Ultimate Collector's Edition - for free! - and have watched SR again, the first time I've seen it since going to the cinema (when i came out hugely disappointed.)

Watching it at home, on a large plasma screen, I liked it much more this time around. It felt like a very nice film, visually polished and stylish, and you could feel the amount of passion and soul that Bryan poured into it.

However, my complaints about the movie remain largely the same.

1) It's far too dark and muted - they say on the DVD extra that this is so that Superman's primary colours stand out more, and yet his colours are not that bright most of the time. The maroon cape only stands out when there is light shining through it. And it was obvious that different capes were used - sometimes it looks like a waterproof material, sometimes more of a cloth.

2) The fanfare for the flight scenes sounded dated and cheesy, it kind of worked for the end scene of him going around the globe but I hated it before that.

3) I'd have liked to have seen a 'foreshadowing' final ending, rather than the existing ending - something like the a shot of New Krypton with the crystals on it, crackling with some sort of energy, hinting at something more to come...

4) The scene with Luthor and the Vanderworth widow - I don't like the 'pleasures I've never known' line (even Bryan Singer is giggling at it when they show that scene being shot), I don't like the kid screaming when he throws his hairpiece. And I feel sure that the old woman's family (was that her family outside her room?) would have contested the will and fought it tooth and nail in the courts, and the police/prosecutors would have been very suspicious of a woman leaving her entire fortune to one of the world's top criminals.

5) The attempts at humour - Clark throwing the ball too far for his dog (the pay-off scene with the dog bringing the ball back was cut) and the Vanderworth dog surrounded by the fur and bones of its companion - come off as twisted, cruel and unnecessary. Kitty's humour, sniping at Lex, was excellent though.

6) The land plot doesn't feel as bad this time around, compared to when i first saw it, but I still feel some dialogue would have given it more sense, such as - Kitty: 'You call THIS real estate.' and Lex: 'Just wait until you see what the other crystals can do.'

7) Also, the fact the Jor-El visual is no longer an interactive program/consciousness and simply tells all the secrets to Luthor doesn't feel right. I smell a plot convenience here. I've always thought that Jor-El was more some kind of advanced interactive recording (almost sentient) that recognised Kal-El and responded specifically to him.

8) The movie climax and ending felt unsure of itself. Superman falls once from the island, and then later he falls yet again. from the edge of space. He simply disappears from the hospital, with no note or thanks, just to reinforce the Christ symbolism of the 'empty tomb'.

9) Some of the visual FX look less slick and more obviously CGI now I can watch more carefully. But in general they were very well done.


Compared with X3, the scale of SR is more grand, the dialogue better and there is more 'heart' to it - possibly this is because of the fewer characters who as a result get more screentime. X3's climax failed to expand enough to be as epic in scale as SR (the X3 storyboards were more epic - Phoenix parting the bay, destroying part of SF, bringing a dome of water over the island).

I found the SR effects on about the same level as X3, the cinematography was slightly better (more creative?) than X3, but X3's colour/brightness was better.

X3 has a better soundtrack and a greater sense of 'enjoyability' - it is less ponderous, it is not trying as hard to say 'look what i am showing you, look what I can do.'

Both movies had great stories that were not executed with 100% success. The deleted scenes for X3 would have helped, those for SR did not add much at all (aside from Clark looking through the newspapers and the unseen Krypton exploration sequence)

I like both movies. I think both of them are very different, and both of them lost the plot somewhere along the way, but SR exudes more quality as a film - you can feel the director and team 'caring' about it. Possibly a better movie (in general terms), but not necessarily a great Superman movie or a better superhero/comicbook movie. If Brett Ratner and his team ever release a 'making of' documentary that shows how much they cared and poured their soul into it, then i might be swayed a little more. X3 does of course deserve an extended edition, if not a more epic climax.
 
liked it then,love it now,and I'm looking forward to the sequel.
merry christmas all.:)
 
One of my favorite movies ever, and in comic book terms it ranks right up there with Batman Begins. I love this movie and I'm glad Singer is directing the sequel to this awesome film.
 
I've seen it 8 or 9 times.
 
Final thoughts ?

Yeah, I am very dissapointed.... it is not a bad film. There are some great scenes (Airplane, Superman stabbed,Superman above earth listening); but overall boring.

This was too much for Singer, too much LOIS Lane.

I dont want to see "Patch Work" family problems. There were a lot of pathetic moments like Superman falling to earth, speaking to his son....

Please give Superman some Testosterone or Kryptosterone or whatever, make him a MAN , not a sensitive guy who looks like he will cry...

Batman Begins worked, because it focused on Batman/Bruce Wayne and it showed some respect to the comics. Thanks Nolan, an intelligent young director who is a guy down to earth.

Superman Returns didnt work for me. I dont want to see "Gone with the wind" or a "Soap opera outta space".

LEX Luthor,Lois Lane flying around with Superman, a KID, a Patch work family, some Honkey-tonks around Luthor, new Krypton and a replay of DONNERS work.


Sorry, but this is my opinion. I have watched it 3 times by now and it is far too much.
 
I saw Superman Returns on the first weekend of its release, then on the first viewing, I was slightly disappointed with all the much talked of problems like less action, dark tone, less thrills etc. etc. But, I went for a second viewing, then the 3rd and then the 4th and with every viewing the movie grew on me and I liked it better than the last time. Now, after nearly 6 months and after my 5th viewing this time on DVD, I am still in love with the film- the beautiful visuals, the haunting score and the wonderful effects. In short I loved SR and can't wait for the sequel which may just be the best Superman movie ever.
 
Very disappointed and no need to rehash the details.

The more interesting question to me, now that it is all over, is how/why it happened - I think when Ratner walked WB was desperate cause the franchise was on the verge of collapsing again. Singer came in as a sort of white knight and WB, feeling they had dodged a bullet, basically allowed Singer total creative control from script to casting. They did not exert the kind of oversight they should have on Singer.

Allowing Lois to have a child? In the first film of a planned trilogy - WB/Alan Horn by all rights should have nixed that no ifs, ands or buts.

Its like WB walked away and let Singer do his thing - by the time they realized there were issues it was way too late. Remeber the sudden break they took from shooting in the fall of 2005. The official line was Singer was attending a wedding in the States. But the break was much longer than a weekend. That I think is when WB first realized it had some problems on its hands. This interesting quote from Kate Bosworth about that time during production sums it up:

"I was all for the break. The water was a nightmare" says Bosworth. "Every day I was like "What the hell are we doing?" EW 06/23/2006 - page 32.

Also from that article:

"Other major expenses included complex effects sequences like the one in which Superman saves a plane from crashing into baseball stadium - a constantly evolving set piece that was shot and reshot throughout the production according to Routh.Complications with the greenscreen work reached a crisis late in production during the shooting of the film's apocalyptic climax inside the massive water tank. Singer wasn't certain what he needed the cast and crew were exhausted and confused". EW 06/23/2006 - Pages 31/32.

Things got out of hand and maybe did not have to if WB had been actively involved in monitoring the film's pre-production and production.
 
One thing for sure, SR has a cult following of Lovers :heart: & Haters :cmad: !
We need to get a life in 2007!

Cheers! Cheers! :woot: :up:

Best wishes & may you all have a :super: 2007 !!!
 
lexlives said:
Also from that article:

"Other major expenses included complex effects sequences like the one in which Superman saves a plane from crashing into baseball stadium - a constantly evolving set piece that was shot and reshot throughout the production according to Routh.Complications with the greenscreen work reached a crisis late in production during the shooting of the film's apocalyptic climax inside the massive water tank. Singer wasn't certain what he needed the cast and crew were exhausted and confused". EW 06/23/2006 - Pages 31/32.

Things got out of hand and maybe did not have to if WB had been actively involved in monitoring the film's pre-production and production.
I've always thought SR looked a little like it didn't know where it was going. Hopefully Singer stays on track for the sequel.
 
Zen Ith said:
I've always thought SR looked a little like it didn't know where it was going. Hopefully Singer stays on track for the sequel.

I think part of the problem looks like though Singer may be a good director he may not manage the detailed day-to-day stuff well. This is why WB needs to be much more present day-to-day on any sequel.

Its like the 20 million spent on unused RTK and all the money spent on the farm and corn fields but those scenes ended up cut.

I think too putting the litle 'S's on the shoes and the seams on the suit - none of which viewers could see, was just wasting/blowing money. Sure that may not have cost much - the seams and 'S's - but it speaks to a sort of wasteful appraoch to the budget.

Not well planned/thought out IMO.
 
lexlives said:
I think part of the problem looks like though Singer may be a good director he may not manage the detailed day-to-day stuff well. This is why WB needs to be much more present day-to-day on any sequel.

Its like the 20 million spent on unused RTK and all the money spent on the farm and corn fields but those scenes ended up cut.

I think too putting the litle 'S's on the shoes and the seams on the suit - none of which viewers could see, was just wasting/blowing money. Sure that may not have cost much - the seams and 'S's - but it speaks to a sort of wasteful appraoch to the budget.

Not well planned/thought out IMO.
I do think WB is going to be more careful on the sequel, they have already given Singer a lower budget.
 
Bale said:
Final thoughts ?

Yeah, I am very dissapointed.... it is not a bad film. There are some great scenes (Airplane, Superman stabbed,Superman above earth listening); but overall boring.

This was too much for Singer, too much LOIS Lane.

I dont want to see "Patch Work" family problems. There were a lot of pathetic moments like Superman falling to earth, speaking to his son....

Please give Superman some Testosterone or Kryptosterone or whatever, make him a MAN , not a sensitive guy who looks like he will cry...

Batman Begins worked, because it focused on Batman/Bruce Wayne and it showed some respect to the comics. Thanks Nolan, an intelligent young director who is a guy down to earth.

Superman Returns didnt work for me. I dont want to see "Gone with the wind" or a "Soap opera outta space".

LEX Luthor,Lois Lane flying around with Superman, a KID, a Patch work family, some Honkey-tonks around Luthor, new Krypton and a replay of DONNERS work.


Sorry, but this is my opinion. I have watched it 3 times by now and it is far too much.

I pretty much feel the same way although I probably like the movie more than you do. I have very mixed feelings overall on SR. There are some incredible and remarkable scenes and some breathtaking shots but for me the movie is too weighted by the complicated family issues. Issues that in my opinion don't belong in a Superman movie. I also feel that Singer and his writers compromised the characters of Superman and Lois Lane too much in this film. And I find it hard to believe that 19 years since the last Superman movie, the best villain and villain plan Singer and his writers could come up with was Lex and another goofy real estate scheme.
 
FlawlessVictory said:
I pretty much feel the same way although I probably like the movie more than you do. I have very mixed feelings overall on SR. There are some incredible and remarkable scenes and some breathtaking shots but for me the movie is too weighted by the complicated family issues. Issues that in my opinion don't belong in a Superman movie. I also feel that Singer and his writers compromised the characters of Superman and Lois Lane too much in this film. And I find it hard to believe that 19 years since the last Superman movie, the best villain and villain plan Singer and his writers could come up with was Lex and another goofy real estate scheme.

Compromising the characters - especially Superman who is supposed to stand apart in integrity and morals from all the rest - was a bad move.

The complicated family issues also - that is the real world - step-parents, but moviegoers go to films sometimes to escape the realities around them.

I don't know how this can be fixed and still remain in the "Singer continuity".
 
Superman Returns is in a different league to other recent superhero movies, such as the Spider-Man movies, it's a truly wonderful piece of film-making. Absolutely one of the best comicbook adaptions ever made. It's epic, elegant, heart-felt and awe-inspiring, a true hymn to the greatest superhero.
 
yes, that's it! superman returns feels exactly like x-men 1. you just sit there wishing there were more but more never comes. it's a very boring and benign movie i've seen in ages for a movie with its lineage and budget. the damn thing played out like a soap opera and not the good kind.
 

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