Superman Returns Superman Returns:Final Thoughts

[Cryogenic]

Today's audiences are looking for something different so I agree.

WHAT???

That doesn't answer my question.

 

[Showtime]

Some have said he was SpiderFreddie who previously roamed these boards. I don't know if that is true or not.

 

[dude stannis]

Comparrison of The Dark Knight and SR is unfair. They have two entirely different audiences. Superman can best be compared to Spider-Man in terms of demographics.

Funny that, considering I always new SR and BB would do similar numbers and they did.

 

[charl_huntress]

Interesting thoughts on this, and it's sad to see the division. Unstoppable at this point, but it's sad.

I wonder if Superman fan Cage feels a little sad that Ghostrider probably will ride all over Supes. His poor soon will grow up with a complex because of Bryan Singer.

 

[FanboyX_Returns]

Interesting thoughts on this, and it's sad to see the division. Unstoppable at this point, but it's sad.

I wonder if Superman fan Cage feels a little sad that Ghostrider probably will ride all over Supes. His poor soon will grow up with a complex because of Bryan Singer.

lol I will laugh very hard when Ghost Rider makes more domestically then SR... Im talking about REALLY HARD!

 

[dude stannis]

Domestically? You know there's other coutries besides U.S.A. Please tell me why you just mentioned domestically, I know why, but I just want to read myself. Come one, let me see you say it...

 

[dark_b]

I read thje article from the VFX guy. Obvioulsy some knew that something was way off with the project. Bosworth's comments are scary.

As to who is cool and not I know. With the net you can never be sure. i trusted sites like BT and others early on and was, to put it mildly, used by these sites and their loyalty to Singer/WB/Routh first and Superman only second. I'm funny that way, a Superman site should, if it has to shill, at least shill for Superman.

No need to PM on this, I was banned for predicting and arguing SR would make just around 200 million, that there was not going to be any action, that Routh was an average actor based on virtually every post I saw on the OLTL boards, that the kid had to be Superman's - BT tried to finesse that way too long. Tje list goes on. The owner inisited otherwise and when I refused to back down - well, it is his site. But the diversion of posters who questioned SR or Singer or WB at that site in hindsight says it all. Especially as that site had an "in" supposedly. They sure got it wrong for having an in.

i am nowwaiting for BlueTights to come here and explain what really happened. t:
because we all know that this is not the reason why he got banned.

 

[StylishHokie21]

I didn't like it at all. Let's hope the sequel is better.

 

[Showtime]

Interesting thoughts on this, and it's sad to see the division. Unstoppable at this point, but it's sad.

I wonder if Superman fan Cage feels a little sad that Ghostrider probably will ride all over Supes. His poor soon will grow up with a complex because of Bryan Singer.

I would be extremely suprised if Ghost Rider made more than Superman Returns...really really suprised.

 

[FanboyX_Returns]

Domestically? You know there's other coutries besides U.S.A. Please tell me why you just mentioned domestically, I know why, but I just want to read myself. Come one, let me see you say it...

Because in the movie biz domestic gross is the most important... The theaters in the USA keep half of the ticket price while outside the USA theater owners keep 60-75% of the ticket money, and some give back as little as 10% so in reality international gross while good for numbers really don't mean a whole lot unless the movie reaches TITANIC status at the boxoffice or Spiderman 1, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars totals at the boxoffice.

Those movies which make 600 to a good billion world wide are the only one's which really deserve notice for their WW totals. IMO

Superman Returns by all means flopt in the USA, and outside the USA while it did decent numbers it didn't do any sort of business which will coverup the loses back home... Even the dvd sales after 1 month dropped, and they won't get enough revenue from that to coverup the loses in this movie.

That's why, and believe me when GR passes SR on a ww total I will laugh also... It opened both internationally, and domestically at the same time, and it had a much lower budget then SR.

So the movie will need less boxoffice to turn a profit, and from the looks of it GR will pass SR overall in both.

 

[FanboyX_Returns]

Originally Posted by lexlives
I read thje article from the VFX guy. Obvioulsy some knew that something was way off with the project. Bosworth's comments are scary.

As to who is cool and not I know. With the net you can never be sure. i trusted sites like BT and others early on and was, to put it mildly, used by these sites and their loyalty to Singer/WB/Routh first and Superman only second. I'm funny that way, a Superman site should, if it has to shill, at least shill for Superman.

No need to PM on this, I was banned for predicting and arguing SR would make just around 200 million, that there was not going to be any action, that Routh was an average actor based on virtually every post I saw on the OLTL boards, that the kid had to be Superman's - BT tried to finesse that way too long. Tje list goes on. The owner inisited otherwise and when I refused to back down - well, it is his site. But the diversion of posters who questioned SR or Singer or WB at that site in hindsight says it all. Especially as that site had an "in" supposedly. They sure got it wrong for having an in.

i am nowwaiting for BlueTights to come here and explain what really happened. t:
because we all know that this is not the reason why he got banned.

Like LexLives I to was banned from here, and BT just for my opinion on this movie when they cast Routh, and the filming started.
Just like him I said many times that the movie won't even beat BATMAN BEGINS at the boxoffice, and that will be doom for this project, and also that the movie would be without any action for the most part, and would be a big let down to fans in general.

I was laughed at picked on, and banned for that.... I was right like LexLives, and like him I was banned.
Im happy to see the hype change it's policy on this whole thing, and they haven't banned me since I have been back... Thanks guys! t:

But the people at BT are all a bunch of hypocrites who don't know what is right for the Superman character... But even worse then them are the fools who run Kryptonsite.com who not only banned me for my opinions but one of their mods who I used to chat online with got ahold of a conversation between myself, and Dan Harris, and without permission published it all over the net, and got me into some very heated problems.
Yes the Dan Harris who helped co write SR... I found his AIM account, and sent him an instant message, and it turned out to really be him.
My conversation was a simple one as a fan I just expressed how badly I thought they were going at this, and he blew me off like if the fans don't mean nothing, and know nothing.
He also gave me the reason why Singer cast Routh over Welling, and why Singer went with his storyline.
Welling wasn't cast simply because he didn't look like Chris Reeve enough, and because his storyline is different from the Donner/Reeve storyline, and if they had cast Welling then they would have to use Mike Rosenbaum as Lex, and that wasn't going to happen because I guess Singer doesn't like Mike or something, and he wanted to have Spacey as Lex.
I was told that flat out to be the reason... I believe almost word for word it was "if we cast Tom Welling then we would have to cast Mike Rosenbaum, and everyone else from the show, and that's just not what Bryan wanted to do."
It was along those lines... I know for a fact that Welling never tried out for Singer, and that isn't even an issue if they had wanted to try another actor to make a movie using a different storyline that's fine with me... There are a lot of actors which are worthy of taking the role of Superman.
James Caviezel for example is one of them.

I didn't have a problem then or now with using an actor other then Tom Welling even though he was my first choice.
I just didn't want an actor who cannot act, looks younger then tv's superboy, is younger by age, and was fired from a soap for bad acting, and to top it all off just got off his last two gigs which were for MTV, and on Will & Grace.

Sorry I don't want an MTV type Superman, and that's all we got... Like I told everyone then.. Sorry if I care more about the character of Superman then Bryan Singer's or Dan Harris Feelings but what they were doing was ALL WRONG, and I said it would backfire, and like Lexlives I was right!

Singer is the worst enemy of this character, and he said a mouth full when he called the movie a "Chick Flick" that alone killed the movie at the boxoffice.

That, and the terrible word of mouth it got from non singer fanboys.
Singer wasn't right for the job, and that became clear to the rest of the world the day SR opened to low expectations, and my final thoughts on the movie is a big "I Told you so!" to everyone involved.

Next time listen to the fans, and don't shut out the same people who buy your product, and who help make you millions because we all saw what happens when you do.

 

[charl_huntress]

I would be extremely suprised if Ghost Rider made more than Superman Returns...really really suprised.

I wouldn't be surprised by anything related to SR at this point...and considering SR's domestic take it's possible GR might do it. I guess it doesn't really matter in the scheme of things, but I hope it doesn't happen.

Anyway, my final thoughts is this movie was a tragedy. It was a dark tragedy about Superman and I can't get down with that. I have no hope for the sequel because I don't think Singer and his hack crew are the right folks to handle Superman.

 

[FanboyX_Returns]

I wouldn't be surprised by anything related to SR at this point...and considering SR's domestic take it's possible GR might do it. I guess it doesn't really matter in the scheme of things, but I hope it doesn't happen.

Anyway, my final thoughts is this movie was a tragedy. It was a dark tragedy about Superman and I can't get down with that. I have no hope for the sequel because I don't think Singer and his hack crew are the right folks to handle Superman.

heh yea more, and more people are saying the same thing.. I wouldn't be shocked if in all their dumbness the WB does go on, and allow Singer to make another Singerman movie, and it makes alot less then SR thus ending any chance of ever getting a real Superman movie that makes fans happy.
By the way about your sig.. The reason why Brandon had alot of talking scenes cut out of the movie was for BAD ACTING lol Singer went nuts a couple of weeks into production, and took a 2 week hiatus to clear his head because the dailys coming back were that bad!
Reports were that he was shocked at how bad they were coming out, and was in fear for his life from fanboy retaliation (not me directly! lol)
Singer is a hack, and his writing team are hacks, and Brandon Routh is not an actor he's a bartender... He should stick to his day job.
Giving a bad actor more lines is a no no lol

 

[charl_huntress]

heh yea more, and more people are saying the same thing.. I wouldn't be shocked if in all their dumbness the WB does go on, and allow Singer to make another Singerman movie, and it makes alot less then SR thus ending any chance of ever getting a real Superman movie that makes fans happy.
By the way about your sig.. The reason why Brandon had alot of talking scenes cut out of the movie was for BAD ACTING lol Singer went nuts a couple of weeks into production, and took a 2 week hiatus to clear his head because the dailys coming back were that bad!
Reports were that he was shocked at how bad they were coming out, and was in fear for his life from fanboy retaliation (not me directly! lol)
Singer is a hack, and his writing team are hacks, and Brandon Routh is not an actor he's a bartender... He should stick to his day job.
Giving a bad actor more lines is a no no lol

He's got to have a chance to be Superman though...and he has to talk to do that. If Singer doesn't trust in his Superman than no fan, semi fan, potential fan, or hater will believe he is Superman, which if what you say is true why Routh gets very little respect for his portrayal in SR.

I think Routh can do it, but he has to be directed and motivated correctly. Singer barely let Clark Kent have a line, and Routh actually did a good job with Clark.

From my stand point, had Singer given Routh's Clark Kent more lines than perhaps some of the emotionless joy lacking in the movie might have been made up by Routh's innate, vulnerable charm. Yet, combine that with Superman acting like a complete wimp and Routh looks like chum for Lex.

Meh....silly stuff for Superman and this movie. I'm over it totally and any lover who argues it is promoting...something else...because they know Singer is done. They can hype up a potential sequel, but it's Singer they love. These folks don't love Superman, or else they would be up in arms.

 

[Cryogenic]

The reason why Brandon had alot of talking scenes cut out of the movie was for BAD ACTING lol Singer went nuts a couple of weeks into production, and took a 2 week hiatus to clear his head because the dailys coming back were that bad!
Reports were that he was shocked at how bad they were coming out, and was in fear for his life from fanboy retaliation (not me directly! lol)

Hey, now! That's going a bit far. Routh's screentest (where he explains to Lois why Superman didn't say goodybye) is BETTER than the finished scene, IMO. I think Routh had the ability.

 

[charl_huntress]

Hey, now! That's going a bit far. Routh's screentest (where he explains to Lois why Superman didn't say goodybye) is BETTER than the finished scene, IMO. I think Routh had the ability.

Agreed. I think he has the ability. Yet, it seems that Singer realized he jacked up early on and tried for a different tack. He's not a Supeman fan at heart. He loves the lonliness and isolation and that is what he showed.

 

[LordJK]

I was laughed at picked on, and banned for that.... I was right like LexLives, and like him I was banned.

You can't be right, it's only opinion.

 

[Cryogenic]

Agreed. I think he has the ability. Yet, it seems that Singer realized he jacked up early on and tried for a different tack. He's not a Supeman fan at heart. He loves the lonliness and isolation and that is what he showed.

You've made some very good points, including this one.

I totally agree with what you said about belief. Donner's mantra was verisimilitude. He could only inject that into the picture if he and everyone else believed in the character. So he pushed himself and everyone around him to the maximum. It shows on screen in every way -- from the performances, to the photography, to the effects, to the music. You just can't say the same about SR.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

You can't be right, it's only opinion.

Shhh...silly boy. There's no such thing as opinion on SHH. FanboyX is right about everything, and before we decide if we should like a movie we must come to him and ask him first.

 

[Showtime]

Like LexLives I to was banned from here, and BT just for my opinion on this movie when they cast Routh, and the filming started.
Just like him I said many times that the movie won't even beat BATMAN BEGINS at the boxoffice, and that will be doom for this project, and also that the movie would be without any action for the most part, and would be a big let down to fans in general.

I was laughed at picked on, and banned for that.... I was right like LexLives, and like him I was banned.
Im happy to see the hype change it's policy on this whole thing, and they haven't banned me since I have been back... Thanks guys! t:

But the people at BT are all a bunch of hypocrites who don't know what is right for the Superman character... But even worse then them are the fools who run Kryptonsite.com who not only banned me for my opinions but one of their mods who I used to chat online with got ahold of a conversation between myself, and Dan Harris, and without permission published it all over the net, and got me into some very heated problems.
Yes the Dan Harris who helped co write SR... I found his AIM account, and sent him an instant message, and it turned out to really be him.
My conversation was a simple one as a fan I just expressed how badly I thought they were going at this, and he blew me off like if the fans don't mean nothing, and know nothing.
He also gave me the reason why Singer cast Routh over Welling, and why Singer went with his storyline.
Welling wasn't cast simply because he didn't look like Chris Reeve enough, and because his storyline is different from the Donner/Reeve storyline, and if they had cast Welling then they would have to use Mike Rosenbaum as Lex, and that wasn't going to happen because I guess Singer doesn't like Mike or something, and he wanted to have Spacey as Lex.
I was told that flat out to be the reason... I believe almost word for word it was "if we cast Tom Welling then we would have to cast Mike Rosenbaum, and everyone else from the show, and that's just not what Bryan wanted to do."
It was along those lines... I know for a fact that Welling never tried out for Singer, and that isn't even an issue if they had wanted to try another actor to make a movie using a different storyline that's fine with me... There are a lot of actors which are worthy of taking the role of Superman.
James Caviezel for example is one of them.

I didn't have a problem then or now with using an actor other then Tom Welling even though he was my first choice.
I just didn't want an actor who cannot act, looks younger then tv's superboy, is younger by age, and was fired from a soap for bad acting, and to top it all off just got off his last two gigs which were for MTV, and on Will & Grace.

Sorry I don't want an MTV type Superman, and that's all we got... Like I told everyone then.. Sorry if I care more about the character of Superman then Bryan Singer's or Dan Harris Feelings but what they were doing was ALL WRONG, and I said it would backfire, and like Lexlives I was right!

Singer is the worst enemy of this character, and he said a mouth full when he called the movie a "Chick Flick" that alone killed the movie at the boxoffice.

That, and the terrible word of mouth it got from non singer fanboys.
Singer wasn't right for the job, and that became clear to the rest of the world the day SR opened to low expectations, and my final thoughts on the movie is a big "I Told you so!" to everyone involved.

Next time listen to the fans, and don't shut out the same people who buy your product, and who help make you millions because we all saw what happens when you do.

The reason Routh was cast over Welling is because well, Welling was never in the running. Neither was Rosenbaum. How would it make sense at that point in time, consider what season Smallville was in during the production of Superman Returns, to use the Smallville cast for Superman Returns? This would mean the end of Smallville, and why would WB want to weaken one division to possibly strengthen another? They would be getting rid of their 1st or 2nd rated television show to make a movie. Doesn't really make sense, if you think that Returns was a failure business wise, then that would be an extreme business blunder. WB wants the best of both worlds.

You say "I told you so", but you told them what? The movie was the 6th highest grossing movie of 2006 in the US. It sold 25-Million Tickets on its way to over 200million? How was it killed at the box office? Why can't you just be realistic about it. I hate to sound like a broken record, but heck, I have to in order to keep up with your spinning of the facts. The movie performed solidly but didn't live up to WB's expectations. What about the DVD rentals? What about the DVD sales?

You have to seperate your hate for the movie, or for Singer, with the facts. If you hate the movie then hey, that is your choice. I am not blind to some of it's faults either. The problem is you go on and on talking about how you told Dan Harris off, but yet he's making millions, and so far he's signed for a sequel?

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

The reason Routh was cast over Welling is because well, Welling was never in the running. Neither was Rosenbaum. How would it make sense at that point in time, consider what season Smallville was in during the production of Superman Returns, to use the Smallville cast for Superman Returns? This would mean the end of Smallville, and why would WB want to weaken one division to possibly strengthen another? They would be getting rid of their 1st or 2nd rated television show to make a movie. Doesn't really make sense, if you think that Returns was a failure business wise, then that would be an extreme business blunder. WB wants the best of both worlds.

You say "I told you so", but you told them what? The movie was the 6th highest grossing movie of 2006 in the US. It sold 25-Million Tickets on its way to over 200million? How was it killed at the box office? Why can't you just be realistic about it. I hate to sound like a broken record, but heck, I have to in order to keep up with your spinning of the facts. The movie performed solidly but didn't live up to WB's expectations. What about the DVD rentals? What about the DVD sales?

You have to seperate your hate for the movie, or for Singer, with the facts. If you hate the movie then hey, that is your choice. I am not blind to some of it's faults either. The problem is you go on and on talking about how you told Dan Harris off, but yet he's making millions, and so far he's signed for a sequel?

Thank the Lord there are some people with sense like you, Mr. Showtime.

 

[Showtime]

I wouldn't be surprised by anything related to SR at this point...and considering SR's domestic take it's possible GR might do it. I guess it doesn't really matter in the scheme of things, but I hope it doesn't happen.

Anyway, my final thoughts is this movie was a tragedy. It was a dark tragedy about Superman and I can't get down with that. I have no hope for the sequel because I don't think Singer and his hack crew are the right folks to handle Superman.

I don't think Ghostrider has a chance to hit 200million, I would be shocked if it broke 150million. I hope it does well though, it's good for all comic book movies. It will mean good news for heroes like WW, Flash, Ironman, and other such heroes hitting the big screen.

 

[Cosmic]

I didn't see this movie until a couple of weeks after it came out. When I finally did see it, I was shocked at how badly it was handled. I couldn't believe how much they took, straight from the Donner films, and how little they explored the very themes which were supposed to be the main selling points of the film. I had avoided reviews and forums until after I saw it. When I came to SHH!, there were already a multitude of posts, systematically pointing out various flaws and problems in the movie. I never wrote a review. Most of the things I would have said had already been repeated and analyzed from different angles.

My main problem with the movie, personally, was the characterization...Superman was made to be so careless, irresponsible, and lacking in basic common sense...it seemed like he was just being relentlessly deconstructed. Like, let's make this brave, strong, smart and capable hero into an incompetent fool, and a moral failure. Won't that be so very interesting and thought-provoking?

Second to that was how Lois and Perry were portrayed. Lois was just this mean *****, who treated Clark like crap whenever he was around. What the hell? Why would she ask him where he'd been, and then blow him off whenever he tries to speak? She asked him for a stapler? After all this time?

Later, when she finally gets a private moment with Superman, she takes him to task for his actions. He gives a staggeringly brief explanation, and then falls silent. But for Lois, it was enough, apparently. She had no further questions, really. There were a lot of moments like that in the film...conversations that went nowhere, or were suddenly interrupted before they could really develop into anything.

So, at the end of the day, it really wasn't the suit, it wasn't Jason, and wasn't Routh. To me, it wasn't even a lack of action, which seems to bother quite a few people. It was that this story, which we had been so looking forward to seeing played out on the screen, never really got past page one. And the characters were depicted as fools, except for Lex, who was stuck with yet another real estate scheme, after all these years!

 

[Showtime]

What do you think should be done with a sequel? Should they go forward with one, with Singer? Should they wait and reboot? What do you think?

 

[Matt]

What do you think should be done with a sequel? Should they go forward with one, with Singer? Should they wait and reboot? What do you think?

In all honesty, I don't care about the characters Singer created and that is what makes or breaks a movie for me.

I am watching Prison Break Season 1 on DVD because I missed it the first time around. An hour ago, I just finished the episode where Lincoln is about to be executed. He is denied clemency, he is taken to the chair...during his goodbyes to Michael, Veronica, and his son and I knew he wasn't going to die as I have been watching season 2...I knew something would happen, and yet...I had tears in my eyes. Why? Because I gave a damn about the character. That is the biggest problem with SR. Singer spent so much time trying to show how isolated Big Blue was, that he in effect isolated him from the audience.

People keep speaking of amped up action in the next movie and how that will make things better. No ammount of action will help SR2 if I don't care about Superman. I don't even care about Lois as she was an ice queen. The only character I felt connected to was Richard White, and he was menat to be a rival of Clark for godsakes.

Therefore, I gotta say go with the reboot in a few years. Not that it matters now...just saying in a perfect world.