Superman Returns Superman Returns:Final Thoughts

[Maze]

yup not only that but i find very funny that some think that they had ,without doubts, unprotected sex.

You wanted a scene where they talk about it in details? lol

The fact is you can be pregnant even if you protect yourself.

 

[Maze]

The underlying theme is that Superman is capable of making mistakes but in the end, tries to overcome them. .

Yup.

And , even more , in overcoming them despite the odds ( his psychological suffering )

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Up until SR the major assumption was that kryptonian DNA was incompatible with human DNA. Did they know she could get pregnant?

You make a good argument, if the incompatibility of DNA's was the route taken, then I will concede on that one. So, I guess Jason is a miracle then!

 

[FlawlessVictory]

yup not only that but i find very funny that some think that they had ,without doubts, unprotected sex.

You wanted a scene where they talk about it in details? lol

The fact is you can be pregnant even if you protect yourself.

You're right, I did assume on that one. I would much rather have had it that Singer kept sex out of this all together. Didn't like it in Superman 2 either.

 

[Maze]

Yup a miracle.

And he is really one for Supe:you can see that ,with the way Superman look at him and talk to him in their final scene together .

beautiful scene imo.

 

[Brainiac 2009]

If Kryptonian DNA is completely incompatible with Human DNA? ....How did Kon-El come into existence?

 

[X Knight]

well....the fact that Superman is an alien and that THEY DON'T KNOW his DNA is compatible.....I would think that would make him MORE CAUTIOUS. After all, he DOES NOT KNOW FOR SURE if Lois can get pregnant. that's why he should have stuck around longer to FIND OUT.

now......maybe more of this will be addressed in the sequel.....no....IT MUST be addressed in the sequel. Superman's GOT A LOT OF EXPLAINING TO DO....to Lois....to Richard.......and, especially to Jason.

so, I guess my final judgement on Singer's take on SR will have to wait until the sequel. If Singer addresses these issues, and shows Superman wracked with guilt, shame, anger ( at himself ), and remorse....and if Singer shows Superman taking responsibility for the mess ( which he created ) and doing the right thing.......then, perhaps, Singer can redeem Superman and restore his moral backbone.

BUT....if Singer glosses over these issues......and just presents Superman's actions as OK / Nothing Wrong With It / Everything's Going To Be Fine and Dandy........then I will be officially turned off of the SR franchise..........

IOW, if Superman thought it was tough going in SR, then his character will REALLY BE TESTED in the sequel. His measure as a (Super)man will be determined by HOW he addresses and atones for the HUGE mistake he made........

 

[Brainiac 2009]

beautiful scene imo.

That was an amazing scene. I didnt see Brandon Routh in it, I saw Superman, which was really cool.

 

[Brainiac 2009]

IOW, if Superman thought it was tough going in SR, then his character will REALLY BE TESTED in the sequel. His measure as a (Super)man will be determined by HOW he addresses and atones for the HUGE mistake he made........

He saved the human race and almost sacrificed his life for them, he doesnt have to atone for anything.

As Superman II proved his responsibility to the world is bigger than just Lois Lane, even though by the end of SR she realized that and forgave him.

 

[X Knight]

no, superman still has to atone for his PERSONAL mistake with Richard and Lois and Jason. that's the issue I was referring to.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

If Kryptonian DNA is completely incompatible with Human DNA? ....How did Kon-El come into existence?

I think the argument being made was there was an assumption on perhaps both the parts of Superman and Lois that their DNA's would be incompatible. Perhaps, they had sex several times and nothing happened as a result, sort of confirming this belief. Then, they get together again and she does get pregnant. But Superman takes off a short time afterwards, believing that she is not pregnant/could not have gotten pregnant. Their assumption turned out wrong.

 

[Brainiac 2009]

no, superman still has to atone for his PERSONAL mistake with Richard and Lois and Jason. that's the issue I was referring to.

What mistake? Theyve all welcomed him back to the world now and Superman found his place again in the world towards the end, he was smiling with a feeling of pride as he soared above the clouds.

I'm pretty sure Superman wont feel depressed in the next film now and wont have anything to atone for.

 

[Brainiac 2009]

I think the argument being made was there was an assumption on perhaps both the parts of Superman and Lois that their DNA's would be incompatible. Perhaps, they had sex several times and nothing happened as a result, sort of confirming this belief. Then, they get together again and she does get pregnant. But Superman takes off a short time afterwards, believing that she is not pregnant/could not have gotten pregnant. Their assumption turned out wrong.

Yea, that seems likely.

 

[X Knight]

umm.....Superman hasn't been around for his own son's life for 5+ years.....I think that's a mistake and something he has to atone for.......

i'm not talking about redeeming himself in the eyes of the world / public, as he pretty much did that in SR.

now, he has to redeem himself as a father to Jason......that's what needs to be addressed in the sequel.

and, flawless, that's a good point. Hopefully, they will discuss that in the sequel......I still think it treats sex too casually....and not appropriate for a Superman movie.......

of course, if they had sex multiple times........and Lois STILL CAN'T TELL HE'S CLARK WITHOUT GLASSES......well.......shame on Lois........and shame on Superman for not telling her.........lol

 

[X Knight]

and y'know how all of this could have been avoided? (well, aside from not including the kid in the first place )

Establish a better context:

For example, Superman reads the story about Krypton being discovered, possible signs of life, and a very narrow window of opportunity to get there ( i think afan mentioned that point ). Of course, the signs of life and other technical details were fabricated by Lex and Stanford.

So, Superman calculates that, with his Kryptonian spacecraft, he could make the trip in a few months ( meaning....Superman HAD NO INTENTION OF BEING GONE THAT LONG ).

Superman also tells his loved ones of his departure ( his mom and Lois ). With Lois, Superman tells her of the discovery....and the possibilities of finding others like him, including his real parents...and also explains the urgency of leaving right away. However, Superman tells Lois he loves her, that he will try to return as soon as possible, and asks her to "wait" for him.

So, Superman makes the trip and, to his dismay, finds the place is a graveyard. Supes tries to hurry back home, but is severly delayed by obstacles beyond his control ( severely weakened by Kryptonite poisoning, ship damaged by asteroids, kidnapped by Mongul / Darkseid / Braniac, etc.... ). The point being that, Superman planned for a much shorter trip, but he ended up severely delayed / lost in space for 5+ years.....

It would be kind of like Homer's The Odyssey, where the hero is trying to return home to his loved ones, but is severely delayed by obstacles, challenges, and other circumstances beyond his control.

So, Supes endured alot of hardship to get back to Earth and he literally crashes back on the farm. From there, we'd have pretty much the same situation in SR. The only difference would be that Lois would be angry, not because Supes didn't tell her ( he did ), but because she waited....and waited....and waited......and he never returned. So, she moved on with Richard ( a good man )............

the point is, they could have easily worked out a better scenario/context where Superman DOES NOT come across as being totally irresponsible.

that's why I feel.....while Singer and co. may have had some great ideas on paper and in their minds.........it just didn't TRANSLATE well on screen........

maybe we'll get a Director's cut or Extended version where they round out the context more........SR: The Singer Cut..

 

[Brainiac 2009]

umm.....Superman hasn't been around for his own son's life for 5+ years.....I think that's a mistake and something he has to atone for.......

It remains to be seen what his impact will be in Jason's life. Jason already had Richard as a father but Jason loves Superman also. I think Jason's too young to hold anything against Superman for being gone. As long as Superman is around from now on, things will turn out okay for them.

of course, if they had sex multiple times........and Lois STILL CAN'T TELL HE'S CLARK WITHOUT GLASSES......well.......shame on Lois........and shame on Superman for not telling her.........lol

Its not like she ever pictured having sex with Clark...

 

[PemLam]

no, superman still has to atone for his PERSONAL mistake with Richard and Lois and Jason. that's the issue I was referring to.

How exactly would you have him atone for it...trips to the amusement park maybe playing horseshoes on Grandma Martha's farm? C'mon S-Bats, how about he simply leave things as they are, let Richard and Lois raise the little super spermy as normal parents and Supes can keep a watchful eye as a protective guardian? Would you have Superman tell the kid and screw up his family as the boy believes it to be; while in the process destroying whatever relationship Lois has with Richard? Yeah, that would endear him everyone.

Or maybe he could toss Richard into a friggin volcano...crispy fried! No more problems!

Sorry for the sarcasm but I'm thinking my suggestion about people getting off their high horses really needs to be considered.

 

[afan]

The point for me is that nothing, absolutely nothing in SR was the result of his five year abscence, however everything in SR was the result of his not announcing to the world and privately to Lois(as anyone who is in an intimate relationship should!!!), the intent, duration and reasons for his voyage.
The whole film was based on that error in judgement, and the only rationale SR puts forth is the lack of Superman re. the strength of his convictions.

The main theme of the entire film is the lack of forthright behavior by the title character.

 

[Super Kal]

If she doesn't know she's pregnant and your called away because of something important, how is that irresponsible?
Up until SR the major assumption was that kryptonian DNA was incompatible with human DNA. Did they know she could get pregnant?

oh please that's so much bulltoast... there are so many obvious signs when a girl gets pregnant...

 

[FlawlessVictory]

so, I guess my final judgement on Singer's take on SR will have to wait until the sequel. If Singer addresses these issues, and shows Superman wracked with guilt, shame, anger ( at himself ), and remorse....and if Singer shows Superman taking responsibility for the mess ( which he created ) and doing the right thing.......then, perhaps, Singer can redeem Superman and restore his moral backbone.

Don't hold your breath. The movie ended with a positive outlook for Superman, especially with the revelation of Jason being his son. I don't think we will be seeing guilt, shame or anger at himself in the sequel. You can even see Superman with a little smile on his face when he just leaves Lois' house and is flying through the clouds, and then another semi-smile as the last shot of the movie.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

of course, if they had sex multiple times........and Lois STILL CAN'T TELL HE'S CLARK WITHOUT GLASSES......well.......shame on Lois........and shame on Superman for not telling her.........lol

That's something I've been trying to figure out. How can Superman have had sex with Lois and never told her he was Clark Kent? Shouldn't he tell her, before they get that intimate?

 

[Super Kal]

see, personally I would of changed that up a bit... that's why I like that face covering cloth that Superman has on when he faces Doomsday in the Hunter/Prey series.

 

[X Knight]

well, I would think a decent Clark / Superman would tell Lois his secret, before he had sex with her and got that intimate.

I mean, actually having sex with a person is pretty intimate, I would think. and, if you're going to go that far, I'd think you'd tell the woman who you really are. Especially if you work with her every day!

At least, in Superman 2, Superman and Lois slept with each other AFTER she found out he was Clark! So, she had accepted and loved both Clark and Superman as one...........

In SR, Lois loves Superman, but treats Clark like dirt! The only problem, she actually slept with Clark.......she just doesn't know it........kind of creepy and unSupermanly if you ask me.......

 

[FlawlessVictory]

^Totally agreed.

 

[afan]

well, I would think a decent Clark / Superman would tell Lois his secret, before he had sex with her and got that intimate.

I mean, actually having sex with a person is pretty intimate, I would think. and, if you're going to go that far, I'd think you'd tell the woman who you really are. Especially if you work with her every day!

At least, in Superman 2, Superman and Lois slept with each other AFTER she found out he was Clark! So, she had accepted and loved both Clark and Superman as one...........

In SR, Lois loves Superman, but treats Clark like dirt! The only problem, she actually slept with Clark.......she just doesn't know it........kind of creepy and unSupermanly if you ask me.......

Superman and the Curse of the Vague History.

In SR does she even know she slept with Superman, thanks to vague history who the heck knows?