Superman Returns Superman Returns:Final Thoughts

[afan]

That could have been an isolated incident. We don't know either way.
.

But they certainly demonstrate a willingness on Superman's part to casually utilize his powers in that manner.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

The answer is you're not supposed to think about it. This is exactly why Singer brought up vague history, so that fans wouldn't constantly talk about things that weren't shown. But, here we are.

That's a bit of a cop out. How can you not think about it? It's not like something I noticed after the 40th time I watched the movie. I noticed it right away. Superman leaves and comes back and has a child that belongs to him. Why wouldn't Superman have stayed around if he had sex with Lois to see if she was pregnant? That's a major part of the story and something that shouldn't be explained with, don't think about it.

 

[Zen Ith]

But they certainly demonstrate a willingness on Superman's part to casually utilize his powers in that manner.

For god sake, he just checked on Lois. I wish people would stop making a big deal out of it.

 

[afan]

For god sake, he just checked on Lois. I wish people would stop making a big deal out of it.

Zenith, what do you suppose would happen to you if........
A policeman noticed you outside a home at night standing in the bushes peering in the window. I think in that scenario you would be in for quite a big deal.

 

[Zen Ith]

Zenith, what do you suppose would happen to you if........
A policeman noticed you outside a home at night standing in the bushes peering in the window. I think in that scenario you would be in for quite a big deal.

Yes I would. But this is a movie, and it was a way of showing us what Lois thought of Superman. The only people who are up in arms about this are the comic fans on message boards, who like to jump on anything that can be seen as bad and then blow it out of proportion.

 

[X Knight]

well, you also said that in the comics, Superman asked Lois first, before he decided to go to Krypton.

that's exactly what Superman should have done in SR. He should have told Lois first, asked her if she was ok with it, told her he loved her, and asked her to wait for him. If Lois was a good woman, I'd think she'd understand the importance and magnitude of his trip.

However, by the time Superman comes back, Lois has moved on with Richard and her kid.....because....she waited....and waited....and waited.....and he never returned.

 

[Super Kal]

that's one of the problems with that movie... a lot of the story was cut out.

 

[Showtime]

that's one of the problems with that movie... a lot of the story was cut out.

That was one of my big issues, they cut so much from the script and later the film itself. I don't understand why they left some of what they did in and then cut important scenes like Clark in Smallville from the movie, and Lex admiting he was responsible for Superman's journey to Krypton in the script.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Yes. he used his xray vision and super-hearing to pry surreptitiously into Lois' private life in SR, establishing his willingness to do so.

To be fair, Superman has done some spying in the comics as well. Someone on these boards, I forget who, had posted this previously.

Title: Action Comics
Issue: No. 279
Date: August, 1961
Meanwhile, Superman’s been using his “super-hearing” to eavesdrop on the friendly rivals for his affections. He arrives, unseen, at the museum to spy on Lois and Lana as they admire a display of life-sized statues of the legendary heroes Samson and Hercules. .

 

[Showtime]

It's been done many more times than that in the comics, but for some reason that is ok and some are saying that Singer should have followed the comics more closely...

 

[X Knight]

have any of you guys and gals tread Superman Returns: The Complete Shooting Script?

if so, how was it different than what we got in the final film?

 

[mego joe]

I believe they had a relationship for some time and may have had sex more than once. The newspaper dates on the DVD reveal Superman knew Lois 5 years before he left and this was some years after he sent Lex to jail for good (meaning Jason wasnt conceived during the timeframe of Superman II).

I know its always responsible to be careful but its understandable that he wouldnt constantly check if Lois was pregnant everytime they had sex.

But if he were in a long term relationship with LOis, it makes even less sense that he would leave abruptly without an explanation. Would anyone of us do that to the person we love? That just makes Superman look like a jerk and completely unaware of Lois's feelings. Is that SUperman?

 

[mego joe]

If she doesn't know she's pregnant and your called away because of something important, how is that irresponsible?
Up until SR the major assumption was that kryptonian DNA was incompatible with human DNA. Did they know she could get pregnant?

It is irresponsible because he did not tell her that he was leaving. To her, he was just gone. One day, relationship, the next, nothing. It is still abandonning LOis emotionally. That is wrong and irresponsible. It is also the actions of a jerk, not Superman. How much can he really care for her if he is capable of doing that?

SInce there is nothing in the movie about Kryptonian DNA and human DNA being incompatible then even bringing it up is ridiculous. If you read "WHat Ever Happened to The Man of Tomorrow" and "Son of SUperman" you have the exact opposite evidence for the argument. SR has to stand on it's own in this respect. If it's not part of the movie, you can't assume either side of the argument, you have to go with what's in the film.

What's in the film is a SUperman who has been having sex with Lois and he leaves without a word to explain himself. That's all you have to go on. Is that something SUperman would do? I don't think so. I don't think any responsible person would do that, especially not SUperman.

 

[Super Kal]

I'll smurfing guarantee that she knew when her belly got really big...

 

[mego joe]

Yup.

And , even more , in overcoming them despite the odds ( his psychological suffering )

IT's interesting, the only person that has a problem with SUperman because he left was Lois. THe public in the movie isn't shown with anything but adulation for him upon his return. It's like saying, "Hey, you lost your girlfriend, give up you life as a policeman." I just don't see that as a really big obstacle to overcome. It's a very personal issue for him with Lois, but I don't see anything in the movie to indicate that it affects his ability to function as Superman.

My impression was that he just totally throws himself into his SUperman role as sort of a way to take his mind off his personal dissaster of a relationship with Lois. THe other way to view that I guess is to see it as his way of proving to Lois that the world DOES need a SUperman. If this is the case it's still a personal issue and not one that the world at large seems to be concerned with.

Eventhough LOis is swayed at the end, SUperman cannot make up for his mistakes with Lois. If he could, she would have chosen him over RIchard, but as it is, Lois makes the responsible and adult decision (at least someone does in this move) to stay with Richard so he son will have the man who has been Jason's father for the first four years of his life. THere's no way SUperman will ever overcome that. How sad for SUperman.

 

[mego joe]

To be fair, Superman has done some spying in the comics as well. Someone on these boards, I forget who, had posted this previously.

Title: Action Comics
Issue: No. 279
Date: August, 1961
Meanwhile, Superman’s been using his “super-hearing” to eavesdrop on the friendly rivals for his affections. He arrives, unseen, at the museum to spy on Lois and Lana as they admire a display of life-sized statues of the legendary heroes Samson and Hercules. .

The big difference is that in this old comic they are in a public place. In SR, Lois and Richard are in their home, their private dwelling. If anybody walked by and tried to listen to their conversation it would be no big deal. If anybody goes up to your window and peeks into your house to watch you, that is a big deal.

While these situations may seem similar, the details show how different they actually are. That is the case with many things in SR. THe details because they are vague or non-existent fail to give the audience complete understanding of what's going on.

It's like the SUperman/ Lois relationship. THe details matter in how to understand what happens next. The context is important, just as the context of the above scene is completely different than the scene in SR.

There are fine lines that separate opposites in the world. WHile things can look similar, if you look at the details they can be completely different.

 

[mego joe]

What mistake? Theyve all welcomed him back to the world now and Superman found his place again in the world towards the end, he was smiling with a feeling of pride as he soared above the clouds.

I'm pretty sure Superman wont feel depressed in the next film now and wont have anything to atone for.

The mistake of leaving Lois abrubtly w/o explaining himself. This action resulted in SUperman still has a responsibility of being a father to a child that doesn't realize who his biological father is. THat is something that in the real world would be a major issue for years for all the parties concerned. There is no way SUperman can atone for this. He has missed 4 years of the child's life and his child doesn't even know who his biological father is. Is this why he is smiling at the end? Or is he just so stupid he still doesn't realize the mess he's created that will be problematic for the rest of his, Lois, Richard and Jason's lives.

It's funny, it seemed like the public at large welcomed him back as soon as he made his first appearance, only LOis had a problem with him.

 

[mego joe]

He couldn't face Lois, as he already explained, and the idea of kryptonian survivors would mean he would be selfish to be talked out of going by the woman he loves.

As for not telling the world, it would have been very dangerous to tell everyone. Criminals would have a field day.

So it was more important to emotionally abandon and hurt the woman he loves? SUperman was cowardly becasue he couldn't stand up and explain himself to the woman he loves. If she really loves him she'll understand, not telling her makes the hurt worse. So, Lois is so compelling that she could talk him out of going to Krypton?

Superman has more backbone and moral fiber than that. He's not whipped for crying out loud. HE's Superman! Even when people are in love they sometimes have to make the hard choice and take the path of honesty. SUperman did not do this. He just left w/o saying a word. Cowardly and immature, and given the fact they were in a sexual relationship, irresponsible.

 

[mego joe]

Lois has guided Superman on what he should do many times in the comics before. In fact in one story where he had the chance to visit Krypton in the past he asked Lois first before he decided whether to go.

It's called common sense.

It should be pretty obvious SR had NOTHING to do with the comics.


It's also common sense to be honest with the person you love and whom you are in a relationship you are with. Otherwise, she might think that you don't care her. THe thing is, SUperman should not be afraid of being talked out of going by her. WHy would he even think that someone who loves him would not be understanding about this situation? If they REALLY love each other and are caring giving people, then she will understand. But, your interpretion makes them both out to be selfish and petty.

 

[mego joe]

well, you also said that in the comics, Superman asked Lois first, before he decided to go to Krypton.

that's exactly what Superman should have done in SR. He should have told Lois first, asked her if she was ok with it, told her he loved her, and asked her to wait for him. If Lois was a good woman, I'd think she'd understand the importance and magnitude of his trip.

However, by the time Superman comes back, Lois has moved on with Richard and her kid.....because....she waited....and waited....and waited.....and he never returned.

She couldn't have waited too long in SR, b/c Richard thinks that Jason is his biological son. For him to think that, LOis had to have sex w/ both Superman and Richard within a two week period. Logically, she shouldn't even think that SUperman won't be back anyday, she can't have already figured out he's just gone. This is another area that really needs some details to fully explore and explain the story. MOre vagueness.

 

[mego joe]

well, you also said that in the comics, Superman asked Lois first, before he decided to go to Krypton.

that's exactly what Superman should have done in SR. He should have told Lois first, asked her if she was ok with it, told her he loved her, and asked her to wait for him. If Lois was a good woman, I'd think she'd understand the importance and magnitude of his trip.

However, by the time Superman comes back, Lois has moved on with Richard and her kid.....because....she waited....and waited....and waited.....and he never returned.

She couldn't have waited too long in SR, b/c Richard thinks that Jason is his biological son. For him to think that, LOis had to have sex w/ both Superman and Richard within a two week period. Logically, she shouldn't even think that SUperman won't be back anyday, she can't have already figured out he's just gone. This is another area that really needs some details to fully explore and explain the story. MOre vagueness.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

She couldn't have waited too long in SR, b/c Richard thinks that Jason is his biological son. For him to think that, LOis had to have sex w/ both Superman and Richard within a two week period. Logically, she shouldn't even think that SUperman won't be back anyday, she can't have already figured out he's just gone. This is another area that really needs some details to fully explore and explain the story. MOre vagueness.

This is an excellent point you bring up. How long could have Lois possibly waited for Superman for her to initially believe that Richard is the biological father of Jason and for Richard to believe Jason is his biological son? It would be appear to be not much time at all. Superman left without having the decency to tell Lois and Lois moved on pretty quickly afterwards. Sounds like they are perfect for each other. Sometimes I just scratch my head wondering what in the hell Singer, Dougherty and Harris were thinking when they were writing this movie.

 

[PemLam]

It must be nice to live in the perfect world some of you obviously live in. The world where you have the time to think through every conceivable decision before having to act, the ability to make everyone happy and never make anyone unhappy, being able to see into the future so you know which course of action to take.

For those of us in the real world, we have to deal with all kinds of feelings and emotions...such as lonliness, desire, sadness, envy, pride, etc. In the movie, considering Superman was raised by and around humans with these same feelings, it would be logical to assume he feels them himself. To say he should rise above them and never experience or express them is naive and ignorant.

Travelocity here I come...send me a ticket to Perfectville!

 

[mego joe]

It must be nice to live in the perfect world some of you obviously live in. The world where you have the time to think through every conceivable decision before having to act, the ability to make everyone happy and never make anyone unhappy, being able to see into the future so you know which course of action to take.

For those of us in the real world, we have to deal with all kinds of feelings and emotions...such as lonliness, desire, sadness, envy, pride, etc. In the movie, considering Superman was raised by and around humans with these same feelings, it would be logical to assume he feels them himself. To say he should rise above them and never experience or express them is naive and ignorant.

Travelocity here I come...send me a ticket to Perfectville!

But that is who SUperman is. He is someone who has been raised by humans, who feels very human and understands how abandonning Lois is going to hurt her. If he really loved her, the FIRST thing he would think of would be to tell LOis what he was going to do.

Additionally, he had plenty of time to tell her. He had to refit the space ship so he could make the trip in the first place.

I'm not asking for Perfectville, I'm asking for SUperman to act like SUperman. If Superman and Lois are in love and in a relationship he's going to tell her that he's leaving Earth for 5 years. That's should be plain and simple to any person who knows the basics of the SUperman character. HIs caring and compassion are fundamental to who he is. He will take pain and suffering before allowing someone else to, especially the woman he loves. This is all bypassed in SR by having SUperman be incapable of being honest with LOis before he leaves. The rest of the movie stems from this point, therefore creating a situation that Superman should never be in.

THere are ways to do the basic concepts and themes of SR and keep it in character, but SInger got too many details wrong. ANd I don't mean the S on the belt or the shade of red SUperman's costume.

 

[PemLam]

What you wrote about Superman is absolutely correct, there's no debating it. I believe however that Singer was trying to bring a god-like being who many envision or believe to be perfect, down to a more human level (at least on an emotional or character level)...complete with all the frailties, flaws and short-comings. To that extent he definitely succeeded, obviously to the chagrin of many people.

We live in a darker period of time than when the original Superman came out and that is reflected in this film. Could it have been done differently? Absolutely. Could it have been better? Hind sight is 20/20 so again, absolutely. I for one enjoyed seeing the character on screen again, regardless of the directors interpretation. I don't want a shoot'em up, all action no content film and in this respect, Singer's version satisfied that.

Regardless of who directs it next or what is ultimately decided on where to take the character, I look forward to the next film coming out.