The Dark Knight Rises TDKR Oscar Chances?

[jmc]

No need to speak for all of us.

And yes, of course we'd be happy with a token nomination. People who aren't bitter about TDKR would like to see a nomination as a gesture for the whole trilogy. Not just for the TDK snub, but for an ambitious work spanning 9 years that many consider to be among the greatest trilogies of all time.

Plus, this might be the last chance for a long time for a Batman film to garner a BP nomination. And IMO it will be a long time before we see one as ambitious and epic as TDKR.

Who's speaking for all of use now?

 

[BatLobster]

Who's speaking for all of use now?

I'm speaking on behalf of people who love the Dark Knight trilogy as a whole and would like to see it nominated even with no chance of winning. If anyone who fits into that category disagrees with what I said, they're welcome to correct me.

I don't know if it's what you meant, but the way you phrased your post made it seem like you were implying that even the people who love TDKR know it's bad and are just in denial. If that's not what you meant, then good, but it came off that way.

 

[DKDetective]

Honestly, I don't think qualifications should really matter.

Honestly, I don't think the opinions themselves even really matters.

What matters is intellect and logic. The reasoning behind your belief and the literary ability to convey that belief in a successful manner.

Generally, Alexei does that. Maybe with some hyperbole attached. And not always something I agree with entirely or even partially. But it made sense to me. At least more so than the argument that The Master did more for film than TDKR.

I don't use lol, but lol.

But hyperbole is the very essence of ill-reasoned argumentation. If people are coming to extreme conclusions on the basis of more restrained premises and evidence, it begs the question about how reasonable their underlying assumptions are.

BatLobsterRises, apologies for the over-generalization, but that has not my personal experience. All but one of the film professors at my alma mater have Ph.D.s and I went to a national university with a robust film department. Moreover, I know too many unemployed, surprisingly unintelligent arts majors with Masters degrees to set much store in such credentials. Hence my objection to the appeal to authority fallacy that I was responding.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

If you don't want people complaining about you, and want them to take you seriously....I would suggest cutting out the condescending name calling.

I'm not a kid who downloads movies while playing video games either.... because I don't play video games and like to actually own a hard copy of the things I watch at home. I watched both ERASERHEAD and NAKED LUNCH on their original run at the theater and have discussed them with Lynch, Cronenberg, and Scheider......I got the feeling that none of them went all googly eyed over Master degrees.

When someone calls me "delusional" for stating TDKR is a victory for the film format, its important I elaborate on how much of an educated opinion is behind said statement.

Last month, sadly, all remaining film equipment was let go of & we are now strictly digital in my department. The times, they are a changing.

Hopefully Nolan & Pfister's commitment to the format will endure & film will still be around in ten years.

Also, most of the greats had Master's in the field. Nothing wrong with studying film before practicing it.

 

[BatLobster]

BatLobsterRises, apologies for the over-generalization, but that has not my personal experience. All but one of the film professors at my alma mater have Ph.D.s and I went to a national university with a robust film department. Moreover, I know too many unemployed, surprisingly unintelligent arts majors with Masters degrees to set much store in such credentials. Hence my objection to the appeal to authority fallacy that I was responding.

Apology accepted, Detective

 

[weezerspider]

If TDKR gets a Best Picture Nomination, not only is it a win for Nolan and us fans, its a win for film.

Uhhhhhh...I'm going to call ******** on your whole Master's in Film story seeing how anyone that pretentious about filmmaking would know that The Master, a critical darling this year, was shot in 70mm and is much more of an artistic achievement in film(film itself as in film vs digital) than TDKR. Paul Thomas Anderson is a cinephile God, so I would assume a pretentious Film theory teacher would speak of him and The Master before Nolan and...Batman.

By the way, I mean no disrespect to pretentious PTA-worshipping cinephile's out there. I'm one of them.

EDIT:Also, I am in no way saying TDKR sucks or anything. I think its UNDER-rated, but this whole "huge achievement for film against digital" stuff is simply absurd.

 

[weezerspider]

Also, most of the greats had Master's in the field. Nothing wrong with studying film before practicing it.

Uhhh...... These guys didn't go to film school:

Peter Jackson
David Fincher
Sir Ridley Scott
James Cameron
Steven Soderbergh
Robert Rodriguez
Quentin Tarantino
Richard Linklater
Spike Jonze
Steven Spielberg
Paul Thomas Anderson

Oh yeah and Christopher Nolan didn't go to film school. He has a degree in English. He attended Dov S-Simons 2 day film school, but thats it. I guess he didn't need a degree to "save film" or whatever.

 

[BatLobster]

I see Alexei's point though, TDKR grossed over $1 billion, while The Master is currently sitting at $14 million. The primary reason film is being ditched by the studios in favor of digital is financial, so TDKR's success could be taken as something of a message, if the moguls were listening. At this point in time, I'd love to see some more large scale action movies shot on film (particularly IMAX 65mm) and not just have film be relegated to being an arthouse novelty.

However, even with TDKR's triumph at the box office that's still exactly what's going to happen as it'd be mighty tough to reverse the trend at this point. Oh well, hopefully Nolan will find another great DP to work with that will love shooting on film just as much as Wally did.

Btw I don't hate digital or anything. It keeps getting better and better. But it really is always a treat to see something that's shot on film. You can still feel the difference.

 

[Bruce Malone]

$$$ signs mean more than any nomination would. TDKR already proven that film is still a very financially viable format for major films, it made it's mark on that with its box office.

An academy award nomination is a whole other things that has no bearing on studios decisions for film vs digital.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

Uhhhhhh...I'm going to call ******** on your whole Master's in Film story seeing how anyone that pretentious about filmmaking would know that The Master, a critical darling this year, was shot in 70mm and is much more of an artistic achievement in film(film itself as in film vs digital) than TDKR. Paul Thomas Anderson is a cinephile God, so I would assume a pretentious Film theory teacher would speak of him and The Master before Nolan and...Batman.

By the way, I mean no disrespect to pretentious PTA-worshipping cinephile's out there. I'm one of them.

EDIT:Also, I am in no way saying TDKR sucks or anything. I think its UNDER-rated, but this whole "huge achievement for film against digital" stuff is simply absurd.

I love PT Anderson. I loved THE MASTER. I want it to win Best Picture. I've seen it three times, but WTF are you talking about?

Why is THE MASTER somehow in competition with TDKR inside your head?

They are BOTH great examples of the power of shooting in film.

THE MASTER is a testament to Anderson's ability to explore character. TDKR is a love letter to epic cinema - specifically the David Lean era of classics like LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, DOCTOR ZHIVAGO & BRIDGE ON THE RIVER KWAI.

Both films represent the cause.

Now, whilst THE MASTER is a tremendous film, its TDKR that will give film more time. Why? Money. A billion dollars with NO 3D. That's a blow to digital & 3D I don't think anyone who loves said formats can dismiss.

Almost everyone in the business has embraced digital & 3D because they think its cheaper to use & can lead to more profit. What do those people say after TDKR's BO gross? "uhhhhhhh...Nolan got lucky."

No.

People will say "maybe we oughtta shoot this in film. That Nolan guy and his sidekick Pfister did a hell of a job with it."

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

I see Alexei's point though, TDKR grossed over $1 billion, while The Master is currently sitting at $14 million. The primary reason film is being ditched by the studios in favor of digital is financial, so TDKR's success could be taken as something of a message, if the moguls were listening. At this point in time, I'd love to see some more large scale action movies shot on film (particularly IMAX 65mm) and not just have film be relegated to being an arthouse novelty.

However, even with TDKR's triumph at the box office that's still exactly what's going to happen as it'd be mighty tough to reverse the trend at this point. Oh well, hopefully Nolan will find another great DP to work with that will love shooting on film just as much as Wally did.

Btw I don't hate digital or anything. It keeps getting better and better. But it really is always a treat to see something that's shot on film. You can still feel the difference.

Great post.

 

[weezerspider]

I love PT Anderson. I loved THE MASTER. I want it to win Best Picture. I've seen it three times, but WTF are you talking about?

Why is THE MASTER somehow in competition with TDKR inside your head?

They are BOTH great examples of the power of shooting in film.

THE MASTER is a testament to Anderson's ability to explore character. TDKR is a love letter to epic cinema - specifically the David Lean era of classics like LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, DOCTOR ZHIVAGO & BRIDGE ON THE RIVER KWAI.

Both films represent the cause.

Now, whilst THE MASTER is a tremendous film, its TDKR that will give film more time. Why? Money. A billion dollars with NO 3D. That's a blow to digital & 3D I don't think anyone who loves said formats can dismiss.

Almost everyone in the business has embraced digital & 3D because they think its cheaper to use & can lead to more profit. What do those people say after TDKR's BO gross? "uhhhhhhh...Nolan got lucky."

No.

People will say "maybe we oughtta shoot this in film. That Nolan guy and his sidekick Pfister did a hell of a job with it."

No they won't. TDKR would have sold just as much tickets if it was digital, which would have lead to more money because the cost of making the damn thing would have been cheaper. No average moviegoer said "wow, I had no plans on seeing TDKR, but now I hear it was shot on film, not digital! I must see it now!". Hell, no one said that.

When guys like Scorsese have accepted the digital format, its over. I'm pro-film, but your comment about Nolan and TDKR somehow achieving something great for the film format is simply ridiculous.

And my point was about The Master: someone who claims he's as sophisticated about film as you would have pointed to The Master way before TDKR when discussing recent films that have shot in film.

Also, I like how you ignored my post about those Directors not having any film degree.

 

[weezerspider]

I see Alexei's point though, TDKR grossed over $1 billion, while The Master is currently sitting at $14 million. The primary reason film is being ditched by the studios in favor of digital is financial, so TDKR's success could be taken as something of a message, if the moguls were listening. At this point in time, I'd love to see some more large scale action movies shot on film (particularly IMAX 65mm) and not just have film be relegated to being an arthouse novelty.

However, even with TDKR's triumph at the box office that's still exactly what's going to happen as it'd be mighty tough to reverse the trend at this point. Oh well, hopefully Nolan will find another great DP to work with that will love shooting on film just as much as Wally did.

Btw I don't hate digital or anything. It keeps getting better and better. But it really is always a treat to see something that's shot on film. You can still feel the difference.

I'm in full agreement film is better, but the honest truth is TDKR being shot on film had zero baring on how much money it made. A good 85% or more of the audience had no clue it was shot any different than any other movie(aside from the IMAX stuff). Everyone in the business knows this. A film being shot in film vs digital is not a make or break deal for 95% of moviegoers, so studios will obviously go with the cheaper solution if the vast majority of their consumers don't care which solution they get. Therefore, TDKR box office numbers really have no affect on the soon to be death of true film. It is what it is.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

No they won't. TDKR would have sold just as much tickets if it was digital, which would have lead to more money because the cost of making the damn thing would have been cheaper. No average moviegoer said "wow, I had no plans on seeing TDKR, but now I hear it was shot on film, not digital! I must see it now!". Hell, no one said that.

When guys like Scorsese have accepted the digital format, its over. I'm pro-film, but your comment about Nolan and TDKR somehow achieving something great for the film format is simply ridiculous.

And my point was about The Master: someone who claims he's as sophisticated about film as you would have pointed to The Master way before TDKR when discussing recent films that have shot in film.

Also, I like how you ignored my post about those Directors not having any film degree.

Ridiculous? Alright, Master Yoda. You say TDKR's billion-dollar BO won't do a thing for film preservation. I say you're terrifically naive. Or is there more to your lack of faith in TDKR & this is just your way of venting...

Anyway, I ignored your pointless post about directors without a Master's because its a jab at me. A stupid waste of my time.

Frankly, if you think mocking me is somehow going to make the things I'm saying here less true then you're in for a bumpy ride, kid, because (again), in my line of work, everyone's talking about Nolan & Pfister's latest achievement for the format.

A BILLION-DOLLAR achievement & middle finger to digital & 3D.

 

[Dr.]

I'm speaking on behalf of people who love the Dark Knight trilogy as a whole and would like to see it nominated even with no chance of winning.

Every year, Oscar pundits offer their predictions. And often, they’ll provide two lists: what should win and what will win. This equivocation simply grants the “political” nature of the awards. Sometimes quality prevails, sometimes it’s other factors (compensation for a past snub, rewarding someone for a body of work - or it’s just the vicissitudes of the voting system).

Is TDKR among the 10 best movies of 2012? I dunno (I haven’t seen many of the serious contenders, so I can’t judge). I’d guess, probably not. But I do know that worse films have won Oscars and (certainly) worse films have been nominated. So on that basis, an Academy acknowledgement for TDKR wouldn’t be out of place.

 

[Spider-Fan]

In all honesty, I don't think TDKR deserves a BP nomination. Certainly does for many technical awards, but I just don't feel the film was of the quality to be nominated for Best Picture. I think TDK got snubbed years ago and should have been nominated, but TDKR was nowhere near that quality.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Oh, and Alexei, weezer...calm yourselves. If you can't discuss this without the personal jabs, then don't reply to one another.

 

[DCMarvelNews]

I think most of us in here know TDKR will not be nominated for one of the 8-10 slots for Best Picture and Nolan will not be nominated for Best Director.

It wouldn't matter how good of a film TDKR is or would have been either and how much Nolan deserved it.

The Academy has that silly and stupid hate for comic genre based films and they also hated on Nolan for his great work and accomplishments on TDK and Inception.

TDKR will not be nominated and don't expect some Lord of the Rings style sympathy from the Academy either for TDKR for the way they disrespected and snubbed TDK unfortunately.

Tom Hardy's performance as Bane is very underrated though. Bale, Hathaway and Caine all did well also.

I agree, I don't see TDKR being nominated for any of the so called major awards - Director, actor, picture etc...

I think it may pick up nominations in cinematography, editing, soundtrack, those sort of Oscars, which is a shame. I'd love to see a best picture and a director nom for Nolan.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Correct. If anything mainstream blockbuster is going to have an Oscar shot Skyfall will be it if the current reviews are anything to go by. More than one occasion I've heard the comparison to TDK and Nolan for it. Folks, Rises is not going to be getting anything other than technical awards. And for those who'd be happy with a Best Picture nod but no nod for the other big 3 categories being Directing, Screenplay and Editing, you'd be happy for nothing more than a token gesture on the Academy's part. Just because 4 years ago an injustice was done doesn't mean this film is equally as deserving of the same recognition, if the film was on par or surpassed TDK then it's a different story, but it isn't, this one comes up short and we all know it.

The Dark Knight Rises doesn't have the mainstream audience support that The Dark Knight did either. People don't talk like TDKR changed the genre (because, quite frankly, it did no such thing) like they did with TDK or The Avengers now. Also, quite frankly, I think the love of TDK makes fans of the trilogy want to rate TDKR a lot higher than it deserves.

Technically speaking it is a spectacular film, but it's just a hokey action movie when you get right down to it.

Ninja's who live in the sewers unbeknownst to the Water and Sewage Department? C'mon, that kind of a plot point would've been laughed out of TDK. I think this actually serves it well as a third film because it avoids the pitfall of trying to replicate what was good about TDK, but as it stands it's a much weaker film.

Also, between Skyfall and Avengers (which I wouldn't nominate either), I think if you nominate TDKR you pretty much have to include those two.

 

[BatLobster]

I'm in full agreement film is better, but the honest truth is TDKR being shot on film had zero baring on how much money it made. A good 85% or more of the audience had no clue it was shot any different than any other movie(aside from the IMAX stuff). Everyone in the business knows this. A film being shot in film vs digital is not a make or break deal for 95% of moviegoers, so studios will obviously go with the cheaper solution if the vast majority of their consumers don't care which solution they get. Therefore, TDKR box office numbers really have no affect on the soon to be death of true film. It is what it is.

Well, certainly the studios are always going to want to shoot digital.

Though Nolan is definitely leading the fight to keep film alive. That's why they did a screening of the prologue with a lot of big name directors there and Nolan gave a little talk in the beginning about why he chose to shoot on film and how its survival as a format is really up to directors with power demanding to shoot on it.

What chance does film have when the good directors do nothing?

 

[747]

Correct. If anything mainstream blockbuster is going to have an Oscar shot Skyfall will be it if the current reviews are anything to go by. More than one occasion I've heard the comparison to TDK and Nolan for it. Folks, Rises is not going to be getting anything other than technical awards. And for those who'd be happy with a Best Picture nod but no nod for the other big 3 categories being Directing, Screenplay and Editing, you'd be happy for nothing more than a token gesture on the Academy's part. Just because 4 years ago an injustice was done doesn't mean this film is equally as deserving of the same recognition, if the film was on par or surpassed TDK then it's a different story, but it isn't, this one comes up short and we all know it.

Ugh, I don't like your attitude.

 

[747]

Oh and did someone say personal ranking of Nolan movies? As a Nolanite, of course I wanna play!

1. Memento
2. The Dark Knight
3. The Dark Knight Rises
4. Batman Begins
5. The Prestige
6. Inception
7. Following
8. Insomnia

Not a single one I don't like or love.

 

[shauner111]

The Dark Knight Rises doesn't have the mainstream audience support that The Dark Knight did either. People don't talk like TDKR changed the genre (because, quite frankly, it did no such thing) like they did with TDK or The Avengers now. Also, quite frankly, I think the love of TDK makes fans of the trilogy want to rate TDKR a lot higher than it deserves.

Technically speaking it is a spectacular film, but it's just a hokey action movie when you get right down to it.

Ninja's who live in the sewers unbeknownst to the Water and Sewage Department? C'mon, that kind of a plot point would've been laughed out of TDK. I think this actually serves it well as a third film because it avoids the pitfall of trying to replicate what was good about TDK, but as it stands it's a much weaker film.

Also, between Skyfall and Avengers (which I wouldn't nominate either), I think if you nominate TDKR you pretty much have to include those two.

Please don't compare TDKR to Avengers. Avengers doesn't deserve half of what TDKR deserves. Giving any attention to Avengers would be like nominating a Transformers or Expendables movie for something meaningful.

TDKR deserves to be nominated in my opinion, but of course never getting the win. How many are allowed on there for best picture?? What are you gonna put on there? The Master, Lincoln, Django Unchained, Lawless (maybe?), Looper (maybe?). Give me a list so i can see if Rises should fit on there or not.

"Ninja's who live in the sewers unbeknownst to the Water and Sewage Department?" really? There's probably some ridiculous stuff in TDK as well if i really thought about it. And who says it was unbeknownst to the department?

"I think the love of TDK makes fans of the trilogy want to rate TDKR a lot higher than it deserves." I disagree. I think it's the opposite. People dont rate it as high because they're constantly comparing the magnificent Dark Knight, instead of looking at it for what it is. It's own film that only ties up loose ends from the previous two. Yeah i know a good chunk of you just simply dont think it's as good as TDK, im not talking about that, im saying a good chunk are just always comparing it to the previous movie. If Return Of The King can get noticed in the way it was, then TDKR should at least get some acknowledgment.

Skyfall on the other hand may end up being the better film overall, i dont know, i havent seen it.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Please don't compare TDKR to Avengers. Avengers doesn't deserve half of what TDKR deserves. Giving any attention to Avengers would be like nominating a Transformers or Expendables movie for something meaningful.

This is a ridiculous statement. The Avengers is not the lowbrow film you're trying to paint it as, and it's moments of ridiculousness are no more ridiculous than The Dark Knight Rises.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

The Dark Knight Rises doesn't have the mainstream audience support that The Dark Knight did either. People don't talk like TDKR changed the genre (because, quite frankly, it did no such thing) like they did with TDK or The Avengers now. Also, quite frankly, I think the love of TDK makes fans of the trilogy want to rate TDKR a lot higher than it deserves.

Technically speaking it is a spectacular film, but it's just a hokey action movie when you get right down to it.

Ninja's who live in the sewers unbeknownst to the Water and Sewage Department? C'mon, that kind of a plot point would've been laughed out of TDK. I think this actually serves it well as a third film because it avoids the pitfall of trying to replicate what was good about TDK, but as it stands it's a much weaker film.

Also, between Skyfall and Avengers (which I wouldn't nominate either), I think if you nominate TDKR you pretty much have to include those two.

I dissagree with all of this.

TDKR is a great film. The only hate its received comes directly from the fanboy community - not the critics circle.

And I wouldn't give Avengers anything. It did nothing for the genre. Its a recipe for how to make boat loads of cash at best. Poor cinematography, post-converted 3D, generic plot...I enjoyed it as a Whedon fan & a Marvel fan. Its not on my top 10 list this year.

TDKR is a spectacle for the thinking man.

For those here unfamiliar with David Lean, please watch some of his films, films that inspired Nolan to helm this gargantuan undertaking. THE BRIDGE ON THE RIVER KWAI & LAWRENCE OF ARABIA both won Best Picture while DOCTOR ZHIVAGO & A PASSAGE TO INDIA were both nominated for Best Picture.

TDKR in storytelling, performances, direction & scope is right alongside them. In visuals it surpasses them.