The Dark Knight Rises TDKR Trailer #3 debuting in The AVENGERS (May 4) - Part 1

[batbax]

You haven't set anything straight, you're just demonstrated textbook Nolan worship.

Denying the Avengers has great dialogue and characterisation is... asinine. It really is. Maybe it's not as on the nose as TDK, maybe that's your problem.

I'll give you one example, just one, of brilliant dialogue and characterisation.

Stark: Loki is a full tilt diva, he wants a show, he wants a parade, he wants his name up in the sky... son of a *****!

You know what that is? No it's not just a gag, it's Tony Stark realising he is describing himself, he is realising that he is very similar to Loki. To deny that this isn't brilliant writing and characterisation is baffling to me.

And to add to that, you know where he's doing the "roll call" to Loki in Stark Tower? Did you notice that Stark did not mention himself? Why? Because he now realises it is not all about him. He is not THE man. That's characterisation. Maybe too subtle i guess? Maybe he needed some spoon feeding dialogue where he's like "Yes, i now realise i'm not the main man. I have learnt that there is no I in team".

It really is quite funny what a hypocrite you are. Out of one side of your mouth you criticize people for "nolan worship" and that he is spoon feeding us dialogue. Yet on the other side someone provides a counter point to your opinion that the avengers has "great dialogue and characterization" and you immediately resort to insults and saying they have no soul. Pot meet kettle. so now I guess I should just broad brush you as a "whedon worshipper"?

 

[Oruku Saki]

I, personally didn't give damn that Rachel died...and I thank Maggie G. for that. She was horrible in the role...not because it was her but because she didn't play the same Rachel from BB. I just didn't think she carried on the character from the other movie at all. So basically I just saw her a few time in TDK and was hoping she didn't end up with Bruce so I wouldn't have to see her in another film. Just didn't like her character at all in TDK...BUT Loved her character in BB

 

[The Morningstar]

Avengers has "great characterisation" in the sense that whatever it does have is very good, but that still doesn't change the fact that it doesn't have much of it to begin with. Again, that is not a knock or criticism of the film, because that it is not what the film intended to be. Strangely, I find it hysterical that your reply to my examples of bad writing and cheesy scenes in the Avengers is simply "you have no soul!", which only reinforces my point. Those scenes were an example of poor writing. I do not condemn the Avengers for it, it was merely a response to your outrageous claims about the supposedly superlative-quality of the writing in Avengers.

If there is anyone in here who is reeking of bias, it is you.

Don't make me laugh.

The Cap moment in front of the cops you may find cheesy, but that means you just have a problem with the character. It was PURE Cap. He doesn't inspire with words, he inspires with actions. No spoon feeding monologues. Whedon is SHOWING, not TELLING why Captain America inspires people here. Something Chris Nolan can't seem to grasp.

I just can't fathom why someone would sit there and call these things corny. If they're corny to you, maybe the superhero genre isn't for you.

 

[Oruku Saki]

Avengers has "great characterisation" in the sense that whatever it does have is very good, but that still doesn't change the fact that it doesn't have much of it to begin with. Again, that is not a knock or criticism of the film, because that it is not what the film intended to be. Strangely, I find it hysterical that your reply to my examples of bad writing and cheesy scenes in the Avengers is simply "you have no soul!", which only reinforces my point. Those scenes were an example of poor writing. I do not condemn the Avengers for it, it was merely a response to your outrageous claims about the supposedly superlative-quality of the writing in Avengers.

If there is anyone in here who is reeking of bias, it is you.

Based on the crowd reactions (3 viewings) and 207mil opening weekend I would have to disagree with you on that.

 

[The Morningstar]

It really is quite funny what a hypocrite you are. Out of one side of your mouth you criticize people for "nolan worship" and that he is spoon feeding us dialogue. Yet on the other side someone provides a counter point to your opinion that the avengers has "great dialogue and characterization" and you immediately resort to insults and saying they have no soul. Pot meet kettle. so now I guess I should just broad brush you as a "whedon worshipper"?

There was no counter point to my opinion. I haven't seen him actually go into detail as to why the writing is bad or the characterisation is bad.

Someone said the scenes of Cap inspiring the cops was corny. To that i say, you have no soul. In a joking manner. Of course he has a soul.

But i imagine that if you find scenes like that corny, the superhero genre isn't for you.

 

[batbax]

Don't make me laugh.

The Cap moment in front of the cops you may find cheesy, but that means you just have a problem with the character. It was PURE Cap. He doesn't inspire with words, he inspires with actions. No spoon feeding monologues. Whedon is SHOWING, not TELLING why Captain America inspires people here. Something Chris Nolan can't seem to grasp.

I just can't fathom why someone would sit there and call these things corny. If they're corny to you, maybe the superhero genre isn't for you.

Let me translate for you Fenrir: "You dont find dialogue appealing the way I do, so therefore you are beneath a respectful retort and the superhero genre isnt for you". Talk about bias.

 

[batbax]

There was no counter point to my opinion. Someone said the scenes of Cap inspiring the cops was corny. To that i say, you have no soul. In a joking manner. Of course he has a soul.

But i imagine that if you find scenes like that corny, the superhero genre isn't for you.

Ha! this is the most one dimensional, single minded ignorant statements Ive heard in quite some time. So if one doesnt like a particular scene or line fromn a superhero movie it means that the genre as a whole isnt for them? Quite a leap of logic there, sport.

 

[Fenrir]

You haven't set anything straight, you're just demonstrated textbook Nolan worship.

Juvenile accusations. I haven't made any fanboyish or trollish comments. If I mentioned TDK, I did so alongside other Marvel movies that have more characterisation than the Avengers.

Denying the Avengers has great dialogue and characterisation is... asinine. It really is. Maybe it's not as on the nose as TDK, maybe that's your problem.

Who said it doesn't have great dialogue or characterisation? Maybe you should stop acting like whining brat and read my posts for a change. I gave you examples of poor writing and cheesy scenes in the Avengers in response to your outrageous claims about the Avengers supposedly being the standard for writing and characterisation in a superhero film when it clearly isn't, especially compared to the films I mentioned.

I'll give you one example, just one, of brilliant dialogue and characterisation.

Stark: Loki is a full tilt diva, he wants a show, he wants a parade, he wants his name up in the sky... son of a *****!

You know what that is? No it's not just a gag, it's Tony Stark realising he is describing himself, he is realising that he is very similar to Loki. To deny that this isn't brilliant writing and characterisation is baffling to me.

How is that in any way relevant to what I said? Come back to have a proper discussion after you've stopped splooging in your Avengers undies.

And to add to that, you know where he's doing the "roll call" to Loki in Stark Tower? Did you notice that Stark did not mention himself? Why? Because he now realises it is not all about him. He is not THE man. That's characterisation. Maybe too subtle i guess? Maybe he needed some spoon feeding dialogue where he's like "Yes, i know realise i'm not the main man. I have learnt that there is no I in team".

And I find it strange that with your so perceptive knack for subtlety, you completely missed all such character elements of Bruce Wayne in TDK when you called him a "boring and uninteresting character". Again, it's obvious where the stench of petty fanboyism is emitting from.

 

[The Morningstar]

Let me translate for you Fenrir: "You dont find dialogue appealing the way I do, so therefore you are beneath a respectful retort and the superhero genre isnt for you". Talk about bias.

[/B]

Ha! this is the most one dimensional, single minded ignorant statements Ive heard in quite some time. So if one doesnt like a particular scene or line fromn a superhero movie it means that the genre as a whole isnt for them? Quite a leap of logic there, sport.

lol you really are amusing. Was your former name GothamLegend by any chance? I'm sure i recognised your posting style.

And yes, if someone finds the scene of Cap inspiring the cops with his actions, I don't think the type of superhero stories that the Avengers are part of is for them. It's not me criticising them, not at all. I'm just saying maybe Avengers type stories isn't their bag.

 

[Oruku Saki]

- You wouldn't say a person on the news thanking a firefighter or police officer was "corny" but thanking CA is?
- Loki getting slammed around by Hulk was not only funny, it proved what Coulson was saying earlier in the movie....Loki is all hubrous/a put on; he has no real conviction; only his vile tongue. Hulk is THE 1 character that doesn't matter to in a fight! That's called irony, AND it was funny.
- I thought CA giving the cop orders made sense; given they were all scared and here comes CA kickin ass and takin names...so they listen to the guy; makes sense to me.

 

[Travesty]

Side note: I love your screen name, Oruku Saki.

 

[The Morningstar]

Juvenile accusations. I haven't made any fanboyish or trollish comments. If I mentioned TDK, I did so alongside other Marvel movies that have more characterisation than the Avengers.



Who said it doesn't have great dialogue or characterisation? Maybe you should stop acting like whining brat and read my posts for a change. I gave you examples of poor writing and cheesy scenes in the Avengers in response to your outrageous claims about the Avengers supposedly being the standard for writing and characterisation in a superhero film when it clearly isn't, especially compared to the films I mentioned.

Did i ever say Avengers was the greatest example of writing and characterisation in the genre? I don't remember doing so? I said it had brilliant writing and characterisation, and yes, i, along with millions of other people, including various "top" critics, agree.

How is that in any way relevant to what I said? Come back to have a proper discussion after you've stopped splooging in your Avengers undies.

How isn't it relevant? You said it didn't have good characterisation or writing, i just provided you with an example of some.

Do you deny that this is good writing and characterisation?

Also, the Hulk vs Loki thing? Wasn't just for laughs. It subverted the villain monologue trope. It was also Banner/Hulk's revenge for Loki taunting him the whole film. It was also the moment where Loki, all his hubris, all his arrogance, his claim to be a God above petty mortals, was brought down to Earth with a massive bump.

And I find it strange that with your so perceptive knack for subtlety, you completely missed all such character elements of Bruce Wayne in TDK when you called him a "boring and uninteresting character". Again, it's obvious where the stench of petty fanboyism is emitting from.

Like what? His face at the dinner table with Dent? Yea i noticed it, was very good. His mourning over Rachel? Yes, very good.

He's still boring and uninteresting. Harvey Dent is the most interesting character in TDK. Along with Joker and Gordon.

 

[Greens]

- I thought CA giving the cop orders made sense; given they were all scared and here comes CA kickin ass and takin names...so they listen to the guy; makes sense to me.

To be fair, this is all it means. He didn't inspire anyone. He kicked ass with those aliens, so they figured he must be on their side. I wouldn't call it corny. It was funny. I don't see what a ''spoon-feeding monologue'' has to do with this.

 

[Fenrir]

Don't make me laugh.

The Cap moment in front of the cops you may find cheesy, but that means you just have a problem with the character. It was PURE Cap. He doesn't inspire with words, he inspires with actions. No spoon feeding monologues. Whedon is SHOWING, not TELLING why Captain America inspires people here. Something Chris Nolan can't seem to grasp.

Really? So the whole bit with the cop turning around and then saying exact the same thing that Cap said after seeing him in action was not cliched and contrived to you? That was pure Cap? Because I've seen that joke played out in some form or another in quite a few movies.

I just can't fathom why someone would sit there and call these things corny. If they're corny to you, maybe the superhero genre isn't for you.

There are more than enough good examples of superhero films that I like without me needing you to dictate the genre's suitability for my tastes, thank you very much.

 

[batbax]

lol you really are amusing. Was your former name GothamLegend by any chance? I'm sure i recognised your posting style.

And yes, if someone finds the scene of Cap inspiring the cops with his actions, I don't think the type of superhero stories that the Avengers are part of is for them. It's not me criticising them, not at all. I'm just saying maybe Avengers type stories isn't their bag.

Lol now your changing your argument. Make up your mind. So now the fact that if I find a couple lines or dialogue bad in the movie means that it's not for me? I liked the movie. There was some horrible cheese in there. Didn't stop me from enjoying it. Your "point" is totally moot. At least you realize how ignorant your first statement was about the whole genre and recanted it. Well done.

 

[Fenrir]

Based on the crowd reactions (3 viewings) and 207mil opening weekend I would have to disagree with you on that.

If crowd reactions and box office intake were indicators of quality writing and overflowing characterisation, then the top spots would have been populated by films like Citizen Kane, Lawrence of Arabia, Apocalypse Now and not Avatar and Titanic.

 

[The Morningstar]

Lol now your changing your argument. Make up your mind. So now the fact that if I find a couple lines or dialogue bad in the movie means that it's not for me? I liked the movie. There was some horrible cheese in there. Didn't stop me from enjoying it. Your "point" is totally moot. At least you realize how ignorant your first statement was about the whole genre and recanted it. Well done.

I haven't recanted anything. It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that there is different levels to the superhero genre.

Avengers, JLA, they are different to your Batmans and your Wolverines and your Punishers. Quite clearly.

Avengers and JLA, by there very nature, are going to run the risk of being more corny than a Batman or Wolverine story.

 

[The Morningstar]

If crowd reactions and box office intake were indicators of quality writing and overflowing characterisation, then the top spots would have been populated by films like Citizen Kane, Lawrence of Arabia, Apocalypse Now and not Avatar and Titanic.

Critically acclaim doesn't hurt either. Avengers is sitting at 93% on RT with an average score of 8.1. So called "top" critics love the movie, praise the characterisation.

And here you are saying it's barely above Transformers. This film is what Transformers wishes it could be. Joss Whedon just schooled Michael Bay at his first attempt.

 

[batbax]

I haven't recanted anything. It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that there is different levels to the superhero genre.

Avengers, JLA, they are different to your Batmans and your Wolverines and your Punishers. Quite clearly.

Avengers and JLA, by there very nature, are going to run the risk of being more corny than a Batman or Wolverine story.

You still make absolutely no sense. So if I go by your logic, you yourself shouldn't bother with tdkr since you enjoyed the dialogue in the avengers and found the dialogue /characterization in tdk laborism. So I assume you shan't be seeing tdkr?

 

[Wedge A.]

Look, I liked the Avengers, but great writing doesn't include Selvig conveniently knowing how to shut down the portal. That scene made absolutely no sense. Textbook deus ex machina.

 

[Caekzor]

I, personally didn't give damn that Rachel died...and I thank Maggie G. for that. She was horrible in the role...not because it was her but because she didn't play the same Rachel from BB. I just didn't think she carried on the character from the other movie at all. So basically I just saw her a few time in TDK and was hoping she didn't end up with Bruce so I wouldn't have to see her in another film. Just didn't like her character at all in TDK...BUT Loved her character in BB

I don't think it was Maggie's fault. Just the way the character was written.

I didn't really give a damn she died either. But I felt sad for Bruce because he lost a friend.

 

[The Morningstar]

You still make absolutely no sense. So if I go by your logic, you yourself shouldn't bother with tdkr since you enjoyed the dialogue in the avengers and found the dialogue /characterization in tdk laborism. So I assume you shan't be seeing tdkr?

No not at all. Because i'm a massive fan of Batman and i'll be there opening weekend. I enjoyed the hell out of Begins. Not so much TDK, but i still respect it as a well made film.

As a Batman fan i'd be foolish to miss out on the finale.

My logic isn't that you can only like one type of superhero story. My logic is that some people do. That's how it is. Some people don't like the more outlandish concepts of books like Avengers and JLA. Some don't like the gritty and dark Batman and Wolverine. Some don't like either. Some like both. It's a matter of whether you have eclectic tastes. I do, i like a bit of everything as long as it's written well.

Look, I liked the Avengers, but great writing doesn't include Selvig conveniently knowing how to shut down the portal. That scene made absolutely no sense. Textbook deus ex machina.

Like the bullet scanning thing that made no sense in TDK? You don't get finger prints on bullets, you get them on casings

But Selveg mentioned that he was aware of what he was doing under Loki's control, and that he built in an emergency shut off.

 

[Boom]

While The Avengers has a 93% on RottenTomatoes, it's also sitting at a 69/100 on MetaCritic.

 

[Greens]

But Selveg mentioned that he was aware of what he was doing under Loki's control, and that he built in an emergency shut off.

How was he aware? Does that mean Hawkeye was aware too?

 

[Oruku Saki]

If crowd reactions and box office intake were indicators of quality writing and overflowing characterisation, then the top spots would have been populated by films like Citizen Kane, Lawrence of Arabia, Apocalypse Now and not Avatar and Titanic.

Wait, so if crowds of people like something, then it's "bad" writing? I think the thing your missing in your argument is "fun". People don't go to the movies to be more depressed then they already are. Apocalypse Now (depressing) Citizen Kane (depressing). From your take on the best movies It seems to me you like a movie that mirrors the human condition; how we are all hellbent, worthless ants clinging to life on the side of a giant ant hill, clawing our way over one another to reach the top. Sorry but I get enough of that from the news; don't need to see it at the movies to beat it into my head any more. (Oh, and I love Apocalypse Now and Citizen Kane, but no way are people gonna pay to watch either of those over and over again)