Comics The '07 X-Event: Endangered Species, Messiah Complex, & Disassembled

[Canemacar]

I didn't say it meant she was a strength character. Read my posts more thoroughly next time.

 

[Havok83]

I didn't say it meant she was a strength character. Read my posts more thoroughly next time.

oh I know that. Guess I didnt word myself correctly

 

[squeekness]

Any other line ups out besides Uncanny, and X-Force... and you are right X-Factor looks canceled at the moment....

They better not! It's the best book of the bunch right now!

 

[UraniaChang]

Rogue isnt a strength based character anymore. She has fire powers, not to mention any she absorbs. As for Sunspot, he is more than strength. He has concussive blasts of solar energy and heat projection. If this is hte UXM cast, its alot more varied than X-force

That's why I said 'most of the members', and even though Sunspot has powers more than strengh, that still makes strengh as a basic part of this line-up, and it's really not a ideal team imo.

 

[Specter313]

I heard over on the comics forum that the new Uncanny line up is going to be Rogue, Colossus, Sunspot, and Strong Guy.

WTH is Marvel doing?

Yeah, ignore that. The guy who put that up was making a very poor attempt at a joke.

 

[OutcryX]

Yeah, ignore that. The guy who put that up was making a very poor attempt at a joke.

thank jeebus. i was getting VERY worried there for a second

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Yeah, ignore that. The guy who put that up was making a very poor attempt at a joke.

Wait, am I the only one who thought it was hilarious? t:

I mean, considering that X-Force roster that had been advertised, it was rather relevant, eh.

 

[Specter313]

IGN Comics: Moving on to "Messiah Complex" then. From what we're hearing, this thing is shaping up to be quite the event…

Brubaker: It's funny because the guys, the editorial guys, were saying it's like a '90s X-Men crossover, one you haven't seen since the '90s - one of these big "X-Men and tons of villains colliding" things. And I was thinking, having not read most of the '90s X-Men and having to go back and read it since taking over Uncanny, "Well let's say that it's a '90s crossover done right." Because as much as those things sold… like [Marvel Editor] Nick Lowe loves "Executioner's Song" - which is actually "X-Cutioner's Song" which is the first reason I hate it… I bought the book of it because Nick said it had the feel we needed, and I was like, "No… No… We want a modern feel." Nick loved that thing when he was like 12 or 13 years old or something. Trying to read it as someone who hadn't read any of the X-Men comics, it was impenetrable. I had no idea who most of these characters were. Stuff jumped around from issue to issue. I'm not trying to diss those guys - that was just the style of storytelling at the time.

But I think all the writers working on this project have a very modern sensibility to comics storytelling. I think that's the biggest difference between comics of the '90s and comics today. It isn't that the art is less flashy or whatever. I think there are still just as many of those kinds of artists working today. Their storytelling has improved. The emphasis is more on storytelling and clarity and less on splash pages and cool poses and things like that (though you still have plenty of artists that focus on that sort of stuff). So for "Messiah Complex," I can definitely see that comparison, but it reads a lot more like a modern story. It's very cohesive. The parts pick up right where the others left off. Hopefully we won't have any mass confusion if you've read enough X-Men to know who most of the characters are.

It's honestly the most fun I've had since I've started working on any X-Men stuff, started with Deadly Genesis even. It's great to say I was part of creating this whole X-Men story and part of this huge X-Men epic. You get to write all of these different characters. I got to write X-Factor! I got to write Layla Miller knowing stuff, or not knowing stuff, even. -laughs- It's fun to use those characters. You realize one of the reasons people love to use ****ing Wolverine is because he's cool! You know? That's one of the frustrations I've had since writing X-Men. I feel like I didn't get to use as many of the characters who I was a fan of when I was writing the book. They were all off in Astonishing. Also, if they were in a scene or two here or there, you didn't really want to do it because you didn't want to ruin what was coming up with Joss's book. It's a similar problem that I felt like I had with Batman. And I feel like "Messiah Complex" is actually solving that problem.

IGN Comics: You just answered like three of my questions… -laughs- So, Sinister is one of the big elements in "Messiah." I'm curious why you guys chose to use him for this event. He's a smaller villain in a sense, particularly when standing next to Magneto or Apocalypse.

Brubaker: Well he fits the story more than anything. He came out of the conflict - who would care about this? That was sort of where that grew out of. But also, at the end of Milligan's run, Gambit and Sunfire had gone and joined up with him and the Marauders. He also has a huge supporting cast of bad guys. He has the Brotherhood or whatever you'd call them - an army at his disposal. The main thrust of "Messiah Complex" is the first new mutant to pop on the radar since M-Day. And it's a baby, a mutant birth, which is even more rare. Usually mutants appear on Cerebro when they're hitting puberty because that was the metaphor. So have a mutant birth is much more rare in the Marvel world. And Sinister is always about the DNA and experimentation, so he'd be highly interested in something like that. Especially post M-Day he'll be very interested in anything on that radar.

Oh, and you have the Purifiers as well who, if they found out about it, would just go and destroy everything they could. They're like chemotherapy. They're trying to get one cell and they kill everything around them just to make sure.

IGN Comics: I was talking with one of my writers the other day. One of the things we were discussing was X-Men tales and villains. It seems like, generally speaking, the notable ones hit on one or two threads, stemming from the Claremont/Byrne days and moving forward. Those two threads are epic space adventures and then the whole minority analogy - be that killing, advancing or equality. Do you think that's a fair assessment and if so, can the franchise ever move beyond that without losing appeal?

Brubaker: Well, hopefully… that's what we're going to try to some degree. Well, not entirely, but to attack it differently and look at it differently is the hope. I can't announce any of it, but it's going to be a really big deal when we announce what's happening post-"Messiah Complex" with the Uncanny book and all the X-Men books in general.

But yeah, that's been my problem with the X-Men my whole life. I didn't really… I see now that I've been writing it for a couple years - I see now why it has become this way. I remember when "God Loves, Man Kills" came out and it was like the whole thing was "Die mutie." The whole thing was a metaphor for being black or Jewish all of the sudden. That was what came across and what it had been compared to because Magneto had been in Auschwitz or something like that too. But they just look like superheroes to me. How do you know that Spider-Man is a superhero and not a mutant? How do you know Giant Man and Wasp are not mutants? Why is it okay to take a pill that makes you grow or get bit by a radioactive spider, in which case you are radioactive and might be harmful, but not to be born with wings, like you're some sort of freak? But it's okay if someone gets it a different way, if the government gives it to them or something.

So that always bugged me as an X-Men fan. I didn't really like the "Hated because we're different" metaphor too much. In the Marvel world, because I read so many Marvel books, it just didn't make sense to me. I was always like, "Why are the X-Men treated so differently than the Avengers?" It's weird because growing up and looking back, when I saw the first X-Men movie, I probably hadn't read those books, at least steadily, for probably a decade by the time I saw it. I went into that with incredibly low expectations, and it really opened my eyes. I was like, "Wait a second. The X-Men is actually a really cool idea!" The whole modern version of it… I think it just got so convoluted in the books, after Paul Smith left, that I just lost interest in it. There were too many plot lines not getting resolved. There were too many alternate dimensions and future realities and all that stuff. It just drove me up a wall.

What's interesting though is that, writing the book, I just wrote a line of dialogue yesterday. I realized as I was writing it that - all I was writing about was, Cyclops is yelling at someone. I don't want to say who he's talking to [but he said], "We didn't sign up for this. We didn't take anything and become this way. We don't make a choice to be these people, to put on these costumes, to do these things. It's just who we are." I realized as I was reading it again… I live in a neighborhood where 50% of the people on my block are gay. And as I was reading it I was like, "… Huh!" Like I just made a gay analogy! I realized in my mind that's how I viewed it after I had written it. I had no plans to actually make it. I hate analogies. I hate metaphors. I hate all that ****. So I never try to write allegories or political metaphors or anything like that. But then I realized… it's not up to the writer, it's up to the reader. That's where allegories and metaphors come from - things that the readers see that the authors didn't necessarily even intend to be. It's just there. It's just a truth. It reflects back on the real world whether you want it to or not.

So I was like, "… Huh! Well… that's actually kind of cool!" Because what he's saying is really true. Ah, I'll just tell you who he's saying it to - he's saying it to Tony Stark. He's basically telling him to shove the whole Registration Act up his ass, post-"Messiah Complex" after everything that happens. Basically he's just saying, "We aren't vigilantes. This is just who we were born as. You can't tell a guy who was born with wings that he can't fly unless he works for the government." So it's just like **** you. I was born with feet! I can walk! I don't need your permission. So it was a really important thing to be said and then I realized how much it can be seen as that metaphor. I realized, "Ah, ****. I've really done a disservice to the X-Men by staying away from that stuff." So but at the same time I don't want to do the "Oh woe is me, we're so hated" stuff, so I want to try and take it in the opposite direction, sort of, with the post-"Messiah Complex" stuff. We'll be hearing a lot more about that later.

http://comics.ign.com/articles/820/820193p3.html

 

[Kevin]

IGN Comics: Moving on to "Messiah Complex" then. From what we're hearing, this thing is shaping up to be quite the event…

Brubaker: It's funny because the guys, the editorial guys, were saying it's like a '90s X-Men crossover, one you haven't seen since the '90s - one of these big "X-Men and tons of villains colliding" things. And I was thinking, having not read most of the '90s X-Men and having to go back and read it since taking over Uncanny, "Well let's say that it's a '90s crossover done right." Because as much as those things sold… like [Marvel Editor] Nick Lowe loves "Executioner's Song" - which is actually "X-Cutioner's Song" which is the first reason I hate it… I bought the book of it because Nick said it had the feel we needed, and I was like, "No… No… We want a modern feel." Nick loved that thing when he was like 12 or 13 years old or something. Trying to read it as someone who hadn't read any of the X-Men comics, it was impenetrable. I had no idea who most of these characters were. Stuff jumped around from issue to issue. I'm not trying to diss those guys - that was just the style of storytelling at the time.

But I think all the writers working on this project have a very modern sensibility to comics storytelling. I think that's the biggest difference between comics of the '90s and comics today. It isn't that the art is less flashy or whatever. I think there are still just as many of those kinds of artists working today. Their storytelling has improved. The emphasis is more on storytelling and clarity and less on splash pages and cool poses and things like that (though you still have plenty of artists that focus on that sort of stuff). So for "Messiah Complex," I can definitely see that comparison, but it reads a lot more like a modern story. It's very cohesive. The parts pick up right where the others left off. Hopefully we won't have any mass confusion if you've read enough X-Men to know who most of the characters are.

It's honestly the most fun I've had since I've started working on any X-Men stuff, started with Deadly Genesis even. It's great to say I was part of creating this whole X-Men story and part of this huge X-Men epic. You get to write all of these different characters. I got to write X-Factor! I got to write Layla Miller knowing stuff, or not knowing stuff, even. -laughs- It's fun to use those characters. You realize one of the reasons people love to use ****ing Wolverine is because he's cool! You know? That's one of the frustrations I've had since writing X-Men. I feel like I didn't get to use as many of the characters who I was a fan of when I was writing the book. They were all off in Astonishing. Also, if they were in a scene or two here or there, you didn't really want to do it because you didn't want to ruin what was coming up with Joss's book. It's a similar problem that I felt like I had with Batman. And I feel like "Messiah Complex" is actually solving that problem.

IGN Comics: You just answered like three of my questions… -laughs- So, Sinister is one of the big elements in "Messiah." I'm curious why you guys chose to use him for this event. He's a smaller villain in a sense, particularly when standing next to Magneto or Apocalypse.

Brubaker: Well he fits the story more than anything. He came out of the conflict - who would care about this? That was sort of where that grew out of. But also, at the end of Milligan's run, Gambit and Sunfire had gone and joined up with him and the Marauders. He also has a huge supporting cast of bad guys. He has the Brotherhood or whatever you'd call them - an army at his disposal. The main thrust of "Messiah Complex" is the first new mutant to pop on the radar since M-Day. And it's a baby, a mutant birth, which is even more rare. Usually mutants appear on Cerebro when they're hitting puberty because that was the metaphor. So have a mutant birth is much more rare in the Marvel world. And Sinister is always about the DNA and experimentation, so he'd be highly interested in something like that. Especially post M-Day he'll be very interested in anything on that radar.

Oh, and you have the Purifiers as well who, if they found out about it, would just go and destroy everything they could. They're like chemotherapy. They're trying to get one cell and they kill everything around them just to make sure.

IGN Comics: I was talking with one of my writers the other day. One of the things we were discussing was X-Men tales and villains. It seems like, generally speaking, the notable ones hit on one or two threads, stemming from the Claremont/Byrne days and moving forward. Those two threads are epic space adventures and then the whole minority analogy - be that killing, advancing or equality. Do you think that's a fair assessment and if so, can the franchise ever move beyond that without losing appeal?

Brubaker: Well, hopefully… that's what we're going to try to some degree. Well, not entirely, but to attack it differently and look at it differently is the hope. I can't announce any of it, but it's going to be a really big deal when we announce what's happening post-"Messiah Complex" with the Uncanny book and all the X-Men books in general.

But yeah, that's been my problem with the X-Men my whole life. I didn't really… I see now that I've been writing it for a couple years - I see now why it has become this way. I remember when "God Loves, Man Kills" came out and it was like the whole thing was "Die mutie." The whole thing was a metaphor for being black or Jewish all of the sudden. That was what came across and what it had been compared to because Magneto had been in Auschwitz or something like that too. But they just look like superheroes to me. How do you know that Spider-Man is a superhero and not a mutant? How do you know Giant Man and Wasp are not mutants? Why is it okay to take a pill that makes you grow or get bit by a radioactive spider, in which case you are radioactive and might be harmful, but not to be born with wings, like you're some sort of freak? But it's okay if someone gets it a different way, if the government gives it to them or something.

So that always bugged me as an X-Men fan. I didn't really like the "Hated because we're different" metaphor too much. In the Marvel world, because I read so many Marvel books, it just didn't make sense to me. I was always like, "Why are the X-Men treated so differently than the Avengers?" It's weird because growing up and looking back, when I saw the first X-Men movie, I probably hadn't read those books, at least steadily, for probably a decade by the time I saw it. I went into that with incredibly low expectations, and it really opened my eyes. I was like, "Wait a second. The X-Men is actually a really cool idea!" The whole modern version of it… I think it just got so convoluted in the books, after Paul Smith left, that I just lost interest in it. There were too many plot lines not getting resolved. There were too many alternate dimensions and future realities and all that stuff. It just drove me up a wall.

What's interesting though is that, writing the book, I just wrote a line of dialogue yesterday. I realized as I was writing it that - all I was writing about was, Cyclops is yelling at someone. I don't want to say who he's talking to [but he said], "We didn't sign up for this. We didn't take anything and become this way. We don't make a choice to be these people, to put on these costumes, to do these things. It's just who we are." I realized as I was reading it again… I live in a neighborhood where 50% of the people on my block are gay. And as I was reading it I was like, "… Huh!" Like I just made a gay analogy! I realized in my mind that's how I viewed it after I had written it. I had no plans to actually make it. I hate analogies. I hate metaphors. I hate all that ****. So I never try to write allegories or political metaphors or anything like that. But then I realized… it's not up to the writer, it's up to the reader. That's where allegories and metaphors come from - things that the readers see that the authors didn't necessarily even intend to be. It's just there. It's just a truth. It reflects back on the real world whether you want it to or not.

So I was like, "… Huh! Well… that's actually kind of cool!" Because what he's saying is really true. Ah, I'll just tell you who he's saying it to - he's saying it to Tony Stark. He's basically telling him to shove the whole Registration Act up his ass, post-"Messiah Complex" after everything that happens. Basically he's just saying, "We aren't vigilantes. This is just who we were born as. You can't tell a guy who was born with wings that he can't fly unless he works for the government." So it's just like **** you. I was born with feet! I can walk! I don't need your permission. So it was a really important thing to be said and then I realized how much it can be seen as that metaphor. I realized, "Ah, ****. I've really done a disservice to the X-Men by staying away from that stuff." So but at the same time I don't want to do the "Oh woe is me, we're so hated" stuff, so I want to try and take it in the opposite direction, sort of, with the post-"Messiah Complex" stuff. We'll be hearing a lot more about that later.

http://comics.ign.com/articles/820/820193p3.html

cool.

 

[usagicassidy]

I'm calling it right now. Brubaker's a skrull.

 

[Canemacar]

Wait. I thought he was pretending to be Xorn, pretending to be Magneto.

 

[usagicassidy]

No, Magneto was pretending to be Brubaker pretending to be Xorn. But Morrison's smart so he figured it out. Cause Claremont told him. And Claremont is always right. Am I even spelling that right? Eh, I don't care if I'm not.

 

[OutcryX]

I soooo am NOT a Brubaker fan...dude puts waaay too much 'thought' into his writing

 

[Jake Cassidy]

X-Cutioner's Song rocked. It was 100x better than the crap he's putting out.

 

[El Bastardo]

I soooo am NOT a Brubaker fan...dude puts waaay too much 'thought' into his writing

Oh bah. He said he doesn't like thinking about putting analogies and metaphors and such into his writing. The only thing he was talking about is the fact that the metaphor that has always permeated the X-Men kinda clicked for him.

X-Cutioner's Song rocked. It was 100x better than the crap he's putting out.

He didn't say it sucked. He said he hated it (because of the name), and, well, that's a point. I think it's a silly thing, akin to everyone capitalizing the "x" in Complex - as in, Messiah CompleX.
But he is right when he says that X-Cutioner's Song, while classic to someone who read it, is 90s storytelling, and is 90s through and through. And that kind of storytelling isn't going to work now.

 

[OutcryX]

Oh bah. He said he doesn't like thinking about putting analogies and metaphors and such into his writing. The only thing he was talking about is the fact that the metaphor that has always permeated the X-Men kinda clicked for him.


He didn't say it sucked. He said he hated it (because of the name), and, well, that's a point. I think it's a silly thing, akin to everyone capitalizing the "x" in Complex - as in, Messiah CompleX.
But he is right when he says that X-Cutioner's Song, while classic to someone who read it, is 90s storytelling, and is 90s through and through. And that kind of storytelling isn't going to work now.

Man. Whatever. I am not a fan of his and unless he does something absolutely amazing (that DOESN'T involve an X-Man dying) to prove otherwise...i will silently hope for him to finally move on...cuz that is how he comes off to me in all his interviews...that he is ready to be done with X-Men. it's as if he does his interviews in the line at the bank...waiting for his sizeable check to clear...like Quesada forced him to do these books.

He just doesn't show any type of 'love' for the characters, IMHO...all he can do is whine about all the good characters being in Astonishing....dude had an amazing cast. Havok, Polaris, NIGHTCRAWLER, Marvel Girl, XAVIER, Warpath and even his OWN creation in Darwin....and still wrote a book that missed the mark, I like x-men in space stories and he just wasn't gunning on all cyclinders, the magneto/Morlock story seems to be trying a lil harder tho.

That and when you write X-Men how can you NOT write in metaphors, cuz whatever you do is inadvertently going to be taken as one regardless...some are more preachy than others...but those underlying themes have what made this book resonate and as popular as it is for so damn long.

sorry. my b_tch session is done now. you may continue with your meal

 

[Kevin]

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Man. Whatever. I am not a fan of his and unless he does something absolutely amazing (that DOESN'T involve an X-Man dying) to prove otherwise...i will silently hope for him to finally move on...cuz that is how he comes off to me in all his interviews...that he is ready to be done with X-Men. it's as if he does his interviews in the line at the bank...waiting for his sizeable check to clear...like Quesada forced him to do these books.

He sure doesn't seem like he enjoys reading/writing x-books that much, eh?

He just doesn't show any type of 'love' for the characters, IMHO...all he can do is whine about all the good characters being in Astonishing....dude had an amazing cast. Havok, Polaris, NIGHTCRAWLER, Marvel Girl, XAVIER, Warpath and even his OWN creation in Darwin....

Surreal, isn't it? I mean, that's one hell of a cast in my book.

and still wrote a book that missed the mark, I like x-men in space stories and he just wasn't gunning on all cyclinders, the magneto/Morlock story seems to be trying a lil harder tho.

Damnedest thing is, as I read The Extremists, I kinda miss Rise And Fall's scope, eh.

 

[El Bastardo]

That and when you write X-Men how can you NOT write in metaphors, cuz whatever you do is inadvertently going to be taken as one regardless...some are more preachy than others...but those underlying themes have what made this book resonate and as popular as it is for so damn long.

That's what Brubaker said in the interview. He said he doesn't go into writing deliberately trying to establish metaphors or analogies like some academic thinking his work doesn't stink and he is of a mightier art, and went on to say that, regardless, people take things as metaphors regardless of what the writer necessarily intended.

As in, he doesn't set out to write anything, but realized why the metaphors of the book have existed for so long when he read what he wrote and realized that, regardless of wanting to write a metaphor, a reader can/will see one.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

That and when you write X-Men how can you NOT write in metaphors, cuz whatever you do is inadvertently going to be taken as one regardless...some are more preachy than others...but those underlying themes have what made this book resonate and as popular as it is for so damn long.

sorry. my b_tch session is done now. you may continue with your meal

I dunno, ask Stan Lee how he did it. Remember, X-Men hasn't always been the anti-segregation/pro-gay rights/jewish metaphor we think of it as. The first ones to really explore that were Claremont and Byrne around the time of "Days of the Future Past". Before that, it very seldom hit upon the racial component of the book...and even before that simply used it as another book about "angsty teenagers".

 

[Canemacar]

And it's no surprise that before then the X-men were a dead franchise that no one cared about.

 

[OutcryX]

That's what Brubaker said in the interview. He said he doesn't go into writing deliberately trying to establish metaphors or analogies like some academic thinking his work doesn't stink and he is of a mightier art, and went on to say that, regardless, people take things as metaphors regardless of what the writer necessarily intended.

As in, he doesn't set out to write anything, but realized why the metaphors of the book have existed for so long when he read what he wrote and realized that, regardless of wanting to write a metaphor, a reader can/will see one.

exactly...he doesn't set out to write anything....and it shows. its like he took this assignment as just something else to do. he didn't come into X-men as if it was what he has always wanted. it's like Quesada was looking around the company for someone moderately talented to write it's biggest selling title (well, before Astonishing came out it was) and drafted Brubaker to do the job...and his writing is a reflection of it. I'm not doubting his skill as a writer...its just that, he is NOT bringing his A game to this title, or at least wasn't, not until the summit where he probably saw how enthusiastic EVERYONE else was about their jobs and this event...

...and people can say what they want about Carey...but dude took a fanfic team and brought them into the big leagues..he made it work....and he did it with a team that really shouldn't have ever been grouped together

Whedon may have gotten the All Stars but Brubaker wasn't exactly working with handicapped ******ed league either

 

[OutcryX]

I dunno, ask Stan Lee how he did it. Remember, X-Men hasn't always been the anti-segregation/pro-gay rights/jewish metaphor we think of it as. The first ones to really explore that were Claremont and Byrne around the time of "Days of the Future Past". Before that, it very seldom hit upon the racial component of the book...and even before that simply used it as another book about "angsty teenagers".

Stan Lee was good at creating the characters...it took much better and more talented writers to make them stick...kinda like with George Lucas and Star Wars

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Stan Lee was good at creating the characters...it took much better and more talented writers to make them stick...kinda like with George Lucas and Star Wars

Harsh. Even though eerily appropriate. t:

 

[Jake Cassidy]

Sorry. I must have misinterpreted what he said about 'X-Cutioner's Song'. I'm still not a fan of his and I am so glad that he decided not to use Archangel.