The Accent

[XtremelyBaneful]

american like the comics. what would be the purpose of changing it?

 

[Typhoon22]

american like the comics. what would be the purpose of changing it?

I assure you...other people do too.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I assure you...other people do too.

yeah, I don't like it when other people do it either. unless it's specific

 

[Mike Murdock]

american like the comics. what would be the purpose of changing it?

The purpose would be to keep the gravitas of his voice, which might be undermined by having him speak in a fake accent. You can disagree with that, but do you really not see the purpose of the suggestion?

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

The purpose would be to keep the gravitas of his voice, which might be undermined by having him speak in a fake accent. You can disagree with that, but do you really not see the purpose of the suggestion?

Did the gravitas of bale's voice get undermined when he was speaking with a 'fake' accent?

To me the purpose that'd be served is what the fans want to hear, and that's Benedict's natural voice.

 

[Mike Murdock]

His voice wasn't all that impressive in The Dark Knight trilogy, so I guess the answer is yes (provided his voice had an initial gravitas analogous to Benedict Cumberbatch's). Mind you, the accent was fine and it didn't hurt his acting, but that's not what we're talking about.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

His voice wasn't all that impressive in The Dark Knight trilogy, so I guess the answer is yes (provided his voice had an initial gravitas analogous to Benedict Cumberbatch's). Mind you, the accent was fine and it didn't hurt his acting, but that's not what we're talking about.

what is it then? I thought the discussion was about having a british actor portraying a comic book character and whether or not to have the voice be american like it is in the comics, or british like the actor himself.

 

[Mike Murdock]

The discussion is whether Benedict Cumberbatch's cool-sounding voice would sound as cool with an American accent. Christian Bale doesn't have a cool-sounding voice (and his Batman voice is openly mocked). I'm not asking whether Cumberbatch can pull off an American accent, I've heard him attempt one before and it was fine, the question is whether he can sound as cool with an American accent.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

The discussion is whether Benedict Cumberbatch's cool-sounding voice would sound as cool with an American accent. Christian Bale doesn't have a cool-sounding voice (and his Batman voice is openly mocked). I'm not asking whether Cumberbatch can pull off an American accent, I've heard him attempt one before and it was fine, the question is whether he can sound as cool with an American accent.

I never said I thought it was about whether BC could pull it off, the OP has an example of him doing it. I get that his natural voice sounds cooler - but if his character is american in the comics, there's no practical reason for him as his character to not retain an american accent for the role.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Did you ignore what I said? I said his voice (with his English accent) sounds cool. It might sound less cool without the accent. That's the practical reason. Now you can respond "no it won't" or "it doesn't matter if it sounds less cool" and that's fine, but to say there's no reason isn't true.

 

[fixxxer]

Go Brit.

Diversity seems to be shorthand for "skin color" these days. But it's just as applicable to a myriad of other things. Backgrounds, social norms, perspectives, gender, culture, sexuality and yes, even accent. Not to mention any number of other things. All things being equal, more diversity is a good thing.

Making Dr. Strange English would take nothing away from the character and would add an interesting little wrinkle to his interactions with the rest of the MCU. I don't care one way or the other, but (again) all things be equal, I'd prefer Cumberbatch to just stick to his native accent.

"A professional from another country come to NY to ply his trade? Outlandish! Has never happened and would never happen in a million years!"

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Did you ignore what I said? I said his voice (with his English accent) sounds cool. It might sound less cool without the accent. That's the practical reason. Now you can respond "no it won't" or "it doesn't matter if it sounds less cool" and that's fine, but to say there's no reason isn't true.

I never said I thought it was about whether BC could pull it off, the OP has an example of him doing it. I get that his natural voice sounds cooler - but if his character is american in the comics, there's no practical reason for him as his character to not retain an american accent for the role.

did you ignore what I said? I clearly acknowledged that B.C sounds cooler to everyone with his natural accent, but I disagree that that's a practical reason for him to retain it in this movie.

 

[Lilbaz]

I thought there was a law in Hollywood that wizards had to be English?

Not really that bothered. Will the general audience find a man casting spells in an English accent more acceptable?

 

[Mike Murdock]

did you ignore what I said? I clearly acknowledged that B.C sounds cooler to everyone with his natural accent, but I disagree that that's a practical reason for him to retain it in this movie.

OK. Maybe I'm confused. What do you mean by "practical reason"?

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

OK. Maybe I'm confused. What do you mean by "practical reason"?

correct me if I'm wrong: dr. strange is american in the comics. at least in most iterations. yes? so it would be appropriate for BC to do the movie with an american accent.

if he were to change that, and instead go with a natural accent, that is an effective change of origin, for the character. if they were to do that, in my opinion, there should be a good reason. instead of just being that his natural voice sounds cooler. because to me, that's impractical - it does not serve any good purpose.

and it's not like i'm saying it'll ruin the movie or ruin it for anyone or anything like that. alls i'm saying is it would not be necessary even if it isn't seen as important; there's no reason to not do an american accent if the character is american, and the actor is capable of pulling it. BC is more than capable.

 

[Typhoon22]

I thought there was a law in Hollywood that wizards had to be English?

Not really that bothered. Will the general audience find a man casting spells in an English accent more acceptable?

Will the general audience be able to keep a straight face when they hear an American accent call spells like ''by the hoary hosts of hoggoth'' ?

I know I won't.

But when I imagine an English accent, Benedicts no less, suddenly it sounds so much more awesome.

 

[Lilbaz]

Will the general audience be able to keep a straight face when they hear an American accent call spells like ''by the hoary hosts of hoggoth'' ?

I know I won't.

But when I imagine an English accent, Benedicts no less, suddenly it sounds so much more awesome.

The director will probably get him to do both and see which works best. They could even go with that he was born in the states but studied in England. Who knows? I doubt we'll go further back into his past than the fact that he's rich, arrogant and had an accident which damaged his hands.

As I said not bothered and will leave it to the director to decide.

 

[Mike Murdock]

correct me if I'm wrong: dr. strange is american in the comics. at least in most iterations. yes? so it would be appropriate for BC to do the movie with an american accent.

if he were to change that, and instead go with a natural accent, that is an effective change of origin, for the character. if they were to do that, in my opinion, there should be a good reason. instead of just being that his natural voice sounds cooler. because to me, that's impractical - it does not serve any good purpose.

and it's not like i'm saying it'll ruin the movie or ruin it for anyone or anything like that. alls i'm saying is it would not be necessary even if it isn't seen as important; there's no reason to not do an american accent if the character is american, and the actor is capable of pulling it. BC is more than capable.

That I can understand, but good reason and practical reason are very different things. "Good" is subjective. Like I said, I think it's perfectly fine for you think it isn't a good reason. But it is a practical reason in the sense that it's done because something in the real world causing the change and it isn't arbitrary to change it because his voice might sound less cool.

I think that was just our source of disagreement. I can totally understand someone not thinking it's a good reason to change the comic book version (I may not agree with them, but I at least understand it), but I can't understand an inability to at least understand the reason one would change it.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

That I can understand, but good reason and practical reason are very different things. "Good" is subjective. Like I said, I think it's perfectly fine for you think it isn't a good reason. But it is a practical reason in the sense that it's done because something in the real world causing the change and it isn't arbitrary to change it because his voice might sound less cool.

I think that was just our source of disagreement. I can totally understand someone not thinking it's a good reason to change the comic book version (I may not agree with them, but I at least understand it), but I can't understand an inability to at least understand the reason one would change it.

yeah, good and practical don't always equate. since i've explained myself and gotten my point across to you, I think we're good.

I've laid my opinion, and that's that the accent should be american.

 

[fixxxer]

correct me if I'm wrong: dr. strange is american in the comics. at least in most iterations. yes? so it would be appropriate for BC to do the movie with an american accent.

if he were to change that, and instead go with a natural accent, that is an effective change of origin, for the character. if they were to do that, in my opinion, there should be a good reason. instead of just being that his natural voice sounds cooler. because to me, that's impractical - it does not serve any good purpose.

and it's not like i'm saying it'll ruin the movie or ruin it for anyone or anything like that. alls i'm saying is it would not be necessary even if it isn't seen as important; there's no reason to not do an american accent if the character is american, and the actor is capable of pulling it. BC is more than capable.

I'm really tired of this "because that's how it is in the comics" argument with the implication being that anyone who wants anything changed is not a "true fan". (Not saying that the latter part is an implication you made, but rather the general attitude of many people on the Hype.)

Earth-616 is not Earth-19999. Changing Strange's nationality from American to English changes squat when it comes to his characterization. And I can think of quite a few things it improves.

Right now, things seem to be defaulting to Marvel heroes = American, which isn't necessarily a bad thing since, in the MCU, America is at the epicenter of most of these superhero happenings. But America being central doesn't have to mean that superheroing is an exclusively American activity.

It's not like the English are a neglected group when it comes to representation in Hollywood, and throwing a Brit Dr. Strange in there might not be seem like much, but every little bit helps. Just makes things at the edges (interactions, subtle cultural inflections) a little more interesting to me.

To me, this is kinda similar to my feeling on the "Asian American Iron Fist" debate. I have absolutely no problem with an American Dr. Strange, but I'd kinda prefer they made him Brit since they might be able to throw in a few wrinkles that make things slightly more interesting to me.

 

[InternetPeople]

And you get to Hogwarts through the tunnel in London so....

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I'm really tired of this "because that's how it is in the comics" argument with the implication being that anyone who wants anything changed is not a "true fan". (Not saying that the latter part is an implication you made, but rather the general attitude of many people on the Hype.)

Earth-616 is not Earth-19999. Changing Strange's nationality from American to English changes squat when it comes to his characterization. And I can think of quite a few things it improves.

Right now, things seem to be defaulting to Marvel heroes = American, which isn't necessarily a bad thing since, in the MCU, America is at the epicenter of most of these superhero happenings. But America being central doesn't have to mean that superheroing is an exclusively American activity.

It's not like the English are a neglected group when it comes to representation in Hollywood, and throwing a Brit Dr. Strange in there might not be seem like much, but every little bit helps. Just makes things at the edges (interactions, subtle cultural inflections) a little more interesting to me.

To me, this is kinda similar to my feeling on the "Asian American Iron Fist" debate. I have absolutely no problem with an American Dr. Strange, but I'd kinda prefer they made him Brit since they might be able to throw in a few wrinkles that make things slightly more interesting to me.

I wouldn't say that it doesn't change squat. They changed Justin Hammer to American I guess coz his actor didn't feel like doing the British actor, and that annoyed me. Heimdall was made black, just to have a black character as far as I can tell, and that annoyed me. These alterations don't affect the plot yes, but it is still a change of origin in the most minimalistic way.

Earth-199999 was not made with the intent of being another Marvel continuity, just cinematic. It is THE cinematic continuity, and it borrows stories from the other earths, namely 616. The MCU is telling its own story but they're not completely original stories, their stories made with some mix from 616 and the other versions. It wasn't made to tell its own, completely original stories. It's not like we have multiple MCUs like we have multiple comic verses; we have just the one, emulating the comics.

As I was telling Mike Murdock, the "slightly more interesting" factor isn't a good enough reason to me for changing the voice.

 

[fixxxer]

^

I understand that way of thinking, but am in complete disagreement. Film-making, like most things, is in large part, the cumulative sum of small decisions, ideas and increments. What makes a movie great (or even very good) is essentially the sum of all the things that made the narrative and/or characterizations "slightly more interesting".

When you start sacrificing good ideas that might make for a more interesting dynamic or might forge an emotional/intellectual resonance with the audience on the alter of the inviolability of the source material, you'll end up with a lesser movie. Period. The mission statement here should be to make the best movie possible. More often than not, that means sticking to the source material... because the source material is an absolute treasure trove. It's both ****ing vast and ****ing great. It doesn't however mean you have to be a slave to the source material.

Sidenote: For the record, I wasn't really on board with either changing Hammer's age/characterization or Hiemdall's race. The former because I thought a more jaded, serious, malignant, experienced Hammer rather than a lightweight Stark wannabe would've served the story better. Whether he was English or American was more or less irrelevant to me, but I think it made more sense to be American due to the nature of his dealings with the American DOD. The latter because I kinda wanted the sibling relationship between Hiemdall and Sif to be explored. If they'd made Sif black as well, I would've absolutely welcomed the change with open arms.

 

[Taarna]

Casting will he hard. The Ancient one needs to be wise, and old. I also think he should be Asian.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

^

I understand that way of thinking, but am in complete disagreement. Film-making, like most things, is in large part, the cumulative sum of small decisions, ideas and increments. What makes a movie great (or even very good) is essentially the sum of all the things that made the narrative and/or characterizations "slightly more interesting".

well it's fine if you disagree, we don't have to agree but it's good you understand where I'm coming from. Moreover, it's like I said before - these movies aren't being made to tell completely original stories. They're more or less, twists on a source material that's beyond just a movie script. But when you twist so much that the spiral gets out of control...

When you start sacrificing good ideas that might make for a more interesting dynamic or might forge an emotional/intellectual resonance with the audience on the alter of the inviolability of the source material, you'll end up with a lesser movie. Period. The mission statement here should be to make the best movie possible. More often than not, that means sticking to the source material... because the source material is an absolute treasure trove. It's both ****ing vast and ****ing great. It doesn't however mean you have to be a slave to the source material.

...what I was leading up to was a reference to IM3. That film broke the box office and received positive reception, but the hardcore fans will never be pleased with it and rightfully so. Whenever they do make faithful changes to the adaptations, altered character origins are what I despise the most. I can't stand them.

Sidenote: For the record, I wasn't really on board with either changing Hammer's age/characterization or Hiemdall's race. The former because I thought a more jaded, serious, malignant, experienced Hammer rather than a lightweight Stark wannabe would've served the story better. Whether he was English or American was more or less irrelevant to me, but I think it made more sense to be American due to the nature of his dealings with the American DOD. The latter because I kinda wanted the sibling relationship between Hiemdall and Sif to be explored. If they'd made Sif black as well, I would've absolutely welcomed the change with open arms.

with hammer, I agree with you but I still don't think it would've been unreasonable to ask, that actor to do a British accent. You explain how they did kind of change his persona, but still they could've at least kept that consistent.

As far as heimdall goes, asgardians are not exactly human, so I don't think they'd need sif to have been black, all they needed was to have heimdall include "sister" in one of the lines in which he was exchanging dialogue with sif, of which there wasn't much. Or, they could've shown sif showing concern to heimdall's weakened state when they returned to Asgard - like running up to him calling his name to see if he was okay or something. But no. They just skip the sibling thing entirely because they thought it was more important to change the race of one of the characters.