The Amazing Spider-Man 2 The Amazing Spider-Man 2 General Discussion - Part 3

[GuestStar2004]

if they make harry venom they can do a spinoff with a big link to TASM, and harry bein a good guy they could probably make it work, with raimis brock he was just a jerk

 

[GENERAL RAAM582]

And whose to say comic book movies will be popular in 2025? I hope they do, because while I love movies, comic book movies are really the only movies that I look forward to and anticipate.

 

[GuestStar2004]

They could have a Venom spin-off regardless of which character they use for him. They've had one planned for years already.

they were not gonna make it eddie brock if i remember right

 

[Smegger56]

But do you realize how long that will be? It'll be close to 2020 before Webb's trilogy ends. And then quite some time after that before there's a reboot of the franchise. The Avengers trilogy will have already completed as well. So we can expect Spider-Man in a second Avengers trilogy in 2025 ish?

That's quite a long time.

I don't want Webbs spidey in the avengers. IMO, I'm happy for him not to be in it. If Marvel and Sony had planned it from the start to include him, I would be thinking a little differently.

BUT, maybe Sony and Disney can do a deal that lets Marvel use their own version of Spidey that suits them. He can be in the Avngers and used in the Marvel films.

 

[spider-neil]

And whose to say comic book movies will be popular in 2025? I hope they do, because while I love movies, comic book movies are really the only movies that I look forward to and anticipate.

CBM and Sci Fi for me. The long wait for summer is agony for me.

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

Look, I"m not clamoring for more Venom here. He's an awful character. The idea of Harry becoming Venom certainly elevates things a bit, but I'm fine if we never see him again.

But look at it this way: Sony wants to make a Venom spin-off. This is public knowledge. While it is true they could do that by way of the Eddie Brock character, what's the advantage for them? Cause I can sure tell you the advantages of Harry-Venom, and they're not insignificant.

1) It's not a rehash of something we've already seen (no matter how you feel about Raimi's presentation of it).
2) It's economic storytelling.
3) Dehaan is hot right now.
4) If you make Harry Venom, you can more effectively transition into making him a hero in his own picture. Look: You're going to get introduced to Harry in ASM2. Likely he'll end up being Peter's friend. So he starts as something of a "good" character. He gets corrupted by the symbiote - but if it's Harry there's a higher likelihood of slight redemption at the end. Peter gets to save his friend, not kill him. Which tees it up perfectly for him going off to make amends in his own pic.

It just makes way more sense.
Otherwise you introduce the character of Eddie Brock in the third pic, who ONLY exists to hate Peter and Spider-Man.

So, what... then he gets away at the end? Peter lets him go? Meh.

Harry is just the most logical choice if one insists on pursuing this ... "character."

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

Gueststar gets it.

 

[WesMan]

https://***********/danedehaan/status/308706613785681920

 

[Shikamaru]

You sound like they have a deal in place. Like it's happening.

No but if both Marvel and Sony want to have Webb's Spider-Man in the Avengers, I'm sure Feige and Whedon will find a way to make it work and do it justice. Whereas WB will literally just pull Nolan's Batman from the TDK trilogy and stick him in Justice League in the same way a little kid takes a random sticker and puts it on a random refrigerator.

Well, in Cap, you had the Odin box thingy and Red Skull being teleported somewhere else. You're kidding me about Thor right? Well either alien or beings from another dimension, Thor had something that was not of this world.

There were 2 parts to that. The first part was that there were no gods and aliens references in Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk. Which is true.

The second part was that there were just no alien references in IM2, Thor, or Cap. The Odin box references Thor and Asgard. Red Skull was (presumably) teleported to Asgard. And Thor simply took place in another dimension where gods existed. The Centauri were from the same dimension as Earth.

Iron Man. Fair point. But Iron Man 2 had the shield influence and the cap reference to connect them. And hulk. I swear it feels like that film is in some way being ignored to a degree. I would say that in terms of Tone, The Incredible Hulk is the odd one out. Now the question is, will they keep the tone of that film in any future hulk projects, or keep it line with the other Marvel films?

Though nowhere as big, Webb's Spider-Man and the MCU have the Empire State University reference in Item 47 to connect them.

Not sure. I doubt we'll even see a Hulk film for a while. It seems they don't know what to do with Hulk past Avengers. I heard something about a new Hulk TV show but I'm not sure how much truth there is to that. I don't feel TIH is being ignored though since there are many references to the events in TIH in The Avengers and Iron Man 2.

The Marvel films are all planned. They all have a basic idea how they'll all link for the Avengers films. Including the Webb spidey will feel very shoe horned it IMO.

They all have a link to the Avengers films because so far, we've only seen movies about members of the Avengers being made. Cap, Thor, Iron Man, and Hulk are all Avengers members so it makes sense to link them to the Avengers movies but Spider-Man operates on a different side of the Marvel universe so it doesn't make sense to connect him to the Avengers. Eventually, Marvel will make movies like Daredevil and the Punisher and those will probably not have too many links to the Avengers other than cameos and easter eggs here and there.

The Infinity Gauntlet is a good way to bring many more characters together. In the comics, all of Marvel's heroes fought Thanos. It wouldn't feel that forced to me IMO if the Avengers decide they need all the help they can against Thanos and recruit superheroes from all over the Marvel universe for a big fight at the end and Spidey is included. That would be a good way to bring Spidey in.

TASM was grittier for sure. It had humour, it did have colour. But that doesn't mean it wasn't a grittier film.

It was a lot grittier than the Raimi films in the sense that they're not as cheesy but that doesn't make them gritty. Something gritty would be Batman and Punisher. Grittyand grittier than something else are two different things.

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

The thought of Whedon writing the wall-crawler is just so good. I don't think this is on the docket right now, but I think conversations have probably occurred. Sony wants to hitch to that money-train. Believe it.

 

[Smegger56]

No but if both Marvel and Sony want to have Webb's Spider-Man in the Avengers, I'm sure Feige and Whedon will find a way to make it work and do it justice. Whereas WB will literally just pull Nolan's Batman from the TDK trilogy and stick him in Justice League in the same way a little kid takes a random sticker and puts it on a random refrigerator.

The thing is, as Webbs spidey was not originally planned for the MCU it would feel shoe horned. The more outer this wolrd elements of the MCU would feel out of place in this take of spidey.

If there is going to be a Spidey in the Marvel films, easy solution would be to let Marvel us their version of the spidey character to fit in with the MCU.

There were 2 parts to that. The first part was that there were no gods and aliens references in Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk. Which is true.

I was thinking about this. Iron Man and TIH where released in the same year. This was the start f the Marvel plan. And it was developed further. In the end, all these films do have an overall plan to fit the MCU.

The second part was that there were just no alien references in IM2, Thor, or Cap. The Odin box references Thor and Asgard. Red Skull was (presumably) teleported to Asgard. And Thor simply took place in another dimension where gods existed. The Centauri were from the same dimension as Earth.

But they have those connections. And they are still out of this world elements that would not fit this more grounded take on Spidey.

Though nowhere as big, Webb's Spider-Man and the MCU have the Empire State University reference in Item 47 to connect them.

Not sure. I doubt we'll even see a Hulk film for a while. It seems they don't know what to do with Hulk past Avengers. I heard something about a new Hulk TV show but I'm not sure how much truth there is to that. I don't feel TIH is being ignored though since there are many references to the events in TIH in The Avengers and Iron Man 2.

Which but is that sorry?

Don't know if they're totally ignoring it. Fair point. But I just got that little feeling about it. But that might just be my view.

They all have a link to the Avengers films because so far, we've only seen movies about members of the Avengers being made. Cap, Thor, Iron Man, and Hulk are all Avengers members so it makes sense to link them to the Avengers movies but Spider-Man operates on a different side of the Marvel universe so it doesn't make sense to connect him to the Avengers. Eventually, Marvel will make movies like Daredevil and the Punisher and those will probably not have too many links to the Avengers other than cameos and easter eggs here and there.

BUT, if Marvel did them, they would do their own takes from scratch, which would make it easier to include them in the MCU world. Whilst Webbs spidey already exists where there where no plans to include it originally.

The Infinity Gauntlet is a good way to bring many more characters together. In the comics, all of Marvel's heroes fought Thanos. It wouldn't feel that forced to me IMO if the Avengers decide they need all the help they can against Thanos and recruit superheroes from all over the Marvel universe for a big fight at the end and Spidey is included. That would be a good way to bring Spidey in.

Again, they are starting this film from scratch. And so can plan it from the start how to incorporate it into the MCU.

It was a lot grittier than the Raimi films in the sense that they're not as cheesy but that doesn't make them gritty. Something gritty would be Batman and Punisher. Grittyand grittier than something else are two different things.

Mater of perspective here. It is a grittier take on spider-man, no doubt.


Again, loving the debate bud

 

[Shikamaru]

Look, I"m not clamoring for more Venom here. He's an awful character. The idea of Harry becoming Venom certainly elevates things a bit, but I'm fine if we never see him again.

Just your opinion. I think Venom is a great character and specifically the classic Todd McFarlane Venom from TASM #300.

Sony will simply not risk altering Venom in that way. They've learned big time in Spider-Man 3 to not do that. Even if Webb wants to turn Harry into Venom, it is highly unlikely Sony will let him.

But look at it this way: Sony wants to make a Venom spin-off.

Sony never said anything. Avi Arad was the one who said that. And we hear a lot of false stuff come from his mouth. Until there is an official cast or release date, you should take it with a grain of salt.

This is public knowledge. While it is true they could do that by way of the Eddie Brock character, what's the advantage for them? Cause I can sure tell you the advantages of Harry-Venom, and they're not insignificant.

1) It's not a rehash of something we've already seen (no matter how you feel about Raimi's presentation of it).

If Venom is done in the current franchise, he won't appear till the late 2010's. He's definitely not appearing in TASM 3 which is 2016 at the earliest. So if he appears, it will be over 10 years after Spider-Man 3.

On top of that, the new Venom will be completely different from SM3's Venom in both portrayal and the way he is written (SM3's Venom wasn't even a half-**** Venom). Not to mention that SM3's Venom only had like 10 minutes of screen time.

It would hardly feel like a rehash. It wouldn't even feel like one at all.

2) It's economic storytelling.
3) Dehaan is hot right now.

Those aren't reasons in the best interest of the character. They would just make Webb/Sony look lazy and unambitious to make a proper Venom.

4) If you make Harry Venom, you can more effectively transition into making him a hero in his own picture. Look: You're going to get introduced to Harry in ASM2. Likely he'll end up being Peter's friend. So he starts as something of a "good" character. He gets corrupted by the symbiote - but if it's Harry there's a higher likelihood of slight redemption at the end. Peter gets to save his friend, not kill him. Which tees it up perfectly for him going off to make amends in his own pic.

It just makes way more sense.

Who says Venom has to be turned into a hero or has to redeem himself? Who says Peter has to kill Eddie? Who says you can't do the same thing by turning Harry into GG 2?

It just makes way more sense.
Otherwise you introduce the character of Eddie Brock in the third pic, who ONLY exists to hate Peter and Spider-Man.

Not if you develop his hatred over the course of multiple films.

So, what... then he gets away at the end? Peter lets him go? Meh.

Harry is just the most logical choice if one insists on pursuing this ... "character."

Why would he get away at the end?

 

[elsewhere]

The more outer this wolrd elements of the MCU would feel out of place in this take of spidey.

I don't understand your logic.

Spider-Man fought a giant lizard man. And he's about to fight even more fantastical things than that.

 

[Spideyman123]

looking hawt MJ

 

[Smegger56]

I don't understand your logic.

Spider-Man fought a giant lizard man. And he's about to fight even more fantastical things than that.

But within his world, it all seems to stem from genetic experimentation. So there will be real world reasons for the villains he faces. As Webb said, Oscorp is like the black tower where all the evil lies.

In the end, I don't think Webbs spidey suits the MCU. If Marvel can get to use the character in their own way that is separate from the Webb films, then grand.

But, right now, I can't see Spidey showing up in the MCU anytime soon. Not Webbs anyway.

 

[VenomSpawn]

they were not gonna make it eddie brock if i remember right

They were, it just wasn't going to be Topher Grace playing him.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Just your opinion. I think Venom is a great character and specifically the classic Todd McFarlane Venom from TASM #300.

Sony will simply not risk altering Venom in that way. They've learned big time in Spider-Man 3 to not do that. Even if Webb wants to turn Harry into Venom, it is highly unlikely Sony will let him.

didn't sony want the villians in raimis SM4? clearly they havent learn't anything from SM3

Sony never said anything. Avi Arad was the one who said that. And we hear a lot of false stuff come from his mouth. Until there is an official cast or release date, you should take it with a grain of salt.

So Avi Arad said something about a spinoff and is still involved in the new franchise right? hmm...

On top of that, the new Venom will be completely different from SM3's Venom in both portrayal and the way he is written (SM3's Venom wasn't even a half-**** Venom). Not to mention that SM3's Venom only had like 10 minutes of screen time.

It would hardly feel like a rehash. It wouldn't even feel like one at all.

Who says Venom has to be turned into a hero or has to redeem himself? Who says Peter has to kill Eddie? Who says you can't do the same thing by turning Harry into GG 2?

Vemon is a big character for sony/marvel and if its true raimi was pushed into using venom i'd say they will want to use him again

and we are all just guessing that harry might be venom so we may all be wrong anyway but in many ways it would have an advantage if they did want a spin off

either that or they do the daily bugle thing again

 

[Shikamaru]

The thing is, as Webbs spidey was not originally planned for the MCU it would feel shoe horned. The more outer this wolrd elements of the MCU would feel out of place in this take of spidey.

But they have those connections. And they are still out of this world elements that would not fit this more grounded take on Spidey.

We don't know how much influence Marvel had on TASM. Someone from Marvel or Sony (can't remember who) said that Marvel has had more influence on TASM than any other non-Marvel Studios film though I'm not exactly sure what they mean by that but it could be a sign.

Plus, Marvel and Sony's "friendship" (for lack of better term lol) started out in 2010 when Marvel get the merchandising rights back. That was also when production on the reboot started.

Honestly, TASM isn't any more grounded than TIH or Iron Man IMO. The science in TASM is just as out there as the science from TIH and the tech that we saw in Iron Man (heck, both TIH and TASM had giant green monster in NYC lol). It's not grounded in the same way the Nolan films are grounded, where they cut down on things that can't happen in real life. It's more grounded in the sense that the characters feel and act as if they were real but it doesn't limit the franchise to not using anything from the Spider-Man comics like how Nolan limited Batman to not using anything like Clayface, Mr Freeze, etc.

If there is going to be a Spidey in the Marvel films, easy solution would be to let Marvel us their version of the spidey character to fit in with the MCU.

Ignoring the fact that I think TASM would fit perfectly into the MCU, I'm not sure I would be happy to see that. I mean, Andrew Garfield is such a perfect Spider-Man and the rest of the cast is so spot on .

I would say the casting is spot on with the casting in the MCU so it would break my little heart . lol

I was thinking about this. Iron Man and TIH where released in the same year. This was the start f the Marvel plan. And it was developed further. In the end, all these films do have an overall plan to fit the MCU.

They haven't done any movies with characters from outside the Avengers like the Punisher and Daredevil so we don't know if every single film they make will be that way. We do know that every single film featuring an Avengers member will be that way though.

Which but is that sorry?

Don't know if they're totally ignoring it. Fair point. But I just got that little feeling about it. But that might just be my view.

I just think they don't know where to take the character from here.

BUT, if Marvel did them, they would do their own takes from scratch, which would make it easier to include them in the MCU world. Whilst Webbs spidey already exists where there where no plans to include it originally.

Again, they are starting this film from scratch. And so can plan it from the start how to incorporate it into the MCU.

Well, like I said, we don't know that. Plus, and this is just me, but I think TASM would fit in just fine. That's just my view though and I guess we can't convince each other so we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

Mater of perspective here. It is a grittier take on spider-man, no doubt.

I wouldn't call it gritty because in my head, although it's grittier than the Raimi films, this is similar to the general grit we see in your average Spider-Man comic.

Again, loving the debate bud

Same here . I see it as more of a discussion though.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

They were, it just wasn't going to be Topher Grace playing him.

Not that Topher Grace was the best choice to play Venom, but I'm glad that movie didn't happen without him. I'm a big fan of continuity.

 

[thegameisback]

Shailene is gorgeous!

 

[Shikamaru]

didn't sony want the villians in raimis SM4? clearly they havent learn't anything from SM3

They didn't want Venom in SM4. At least not after Raimi killed off Venom in SM3.

So Avi Arad said something about a spinoff and is still involved in the new franchise right? hmm...

You're missing the point. Avi Arad says stuff like this all the time that doesn't come true. He sometimes even just says things just to see the reaction out of people before he makes a final decision. We don't know if the Venom spinoff is even happening at this point and we won't know for a while.

Vemon is a big character for sony/marvel and if its true raimi was pushed into using venom i'd say they will want to use him again

He was pushed into using him due to the high demand for Venom. Then Venom ended up being the main reason for the backlash they got. Chances are they won't use Venom again without doing him justice.

and we are all just guessing that harry might be venom so we may all be wrong anyway but in many ways it would have an advantage if they did want a spin off

You also can have a spinoff with Eddie or Flash as Venom.

either that or they do the daily bugle thing again

Or they bring in Ultimate Eddie Brock with a few changes to make him fit.

 

[Smegger56]

Same here . I see it as more of a discussion though.

Discussion. Debate. All good fun in the end man. We all have different wants for our favourite web head. If we where all the same, it would be pretty damn dull .

How much influence though? It feels like it has no influence from Marvel at all. If you can get a link, then cool stuff mate

I don't think we'll ever agree here lol. I don't think TASM feels like an MCU film. It feels very much its own thing. And I want it to stay that way too .

But it would be interesting to see who Marvel would cast as spidey if they did get permission from Sony to use their own version of the character.

We can agree. The cast in TASM is damn perfect

 

[GuestStar2004]

They didn't want Venom in SM4. At least not after Raimi killed off Venom in SM3.

they wanted to create a new character the vultress and I swear there was other changes they wanted

 

[Smegger56]

they wanted to create a new character the vultress and I swear there was other changes they wanted

Don't remind me of that

 

[TH29]

can we all agree Avi Arad is terrible?